Reflex Kickstarter early bird

ChrisR

ChrisR

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New camera with interchangeable backs and lens mounts, manual or aperture priority etc just opening on Kickstarter with a £350 early bird option... not sure if this has a thread already but looks interesting...
 
It looks really good and I wish him all the best.

But

What does it give me over and above what a Pentax 1000, Olympus OM1, Canon F1, Nikon F2, Cosina or any other manual camera you can get from shops?
 
Well it's 15-40 years younger, I guess! Interchangeable backs and interchangeable lens mounts are both interesting features with a lot of potential benefits...

I haven't read the information in detail yet, but there are a helluva lot of questions to ask. The big questions in my mind relate to the details, things like whether the metering is open aperture (many M42 cameras don't have this), is there a depth of field preview button, etc etc. But mostly... build quality. And that can't be answered until they've been in the field for a while. Which makes it a very big punt at £350. OTOH I really want it to succeed...
 
Some good ideas there - interchangeable backs are rare in 35mm cameras. One missed bit of interchangeability is the prism, which is more important to me than the backs as I prefer waist level finders. I didn't spot interchangeable acreens either.
 
I started a thread about this a couple of weeks back (before the Kickstarter). I think it's great that someone is developing a new SLR and I hope it's a success. There seem to be a lot of people who just think why bother when you can pick up a high-end and time proven legacy camera though. It's not an attitude I share, and I like the feature set that this has - if it's further developed to give additional customisation options such as screens and prisms then even better.
 
The only bit that i find contradictory is this

I-Plate - Interchangeable Lens Mount

Previously, buying a camera from a particular brand meant people were locked into buying and using lenses from the same manufacturer. This can be frustrating and costly. Reflex’s Interchangeable mount plate makes shooting with lenses produced by other brands possible, meaning photographers can continue using the products they already own and don’t have to purchase expensive new kit.

Unless you spend the £35 per interchangeable lens mount you will be locked into M42.
To truly offer the flexibility of being able to use other lenses without added expense surely means the inclusion of all adaptors as part of the camera purchase.

Or am i thinking about this all wrong?
 
Prefaced by saying not really interested in buying this personally but...

The back looks interesting; like the idea of having two bodies with different film types, but without two bodies.
Not sure how comfortable the shutter release will be on the front like that; looks to me it would be awkward to hold?
I'm surprised theres not either a flash sync connector or a hotshoe. Yes there is a built in flash, but thats going to be poor compared with anything external.

But given that the only "new" 35mm camera alternative is to buy a Nikon F6 ... I'm sure there will be lots of interest.
 
Eloise said:
Prefaced by saying not really interested in buying this personally but...

The back looks interesting; like the idea of having two bodies with different film types, but without two bodies.
Not sure how comfortable the shutter release will be on the front like that; looks to me it would be awkward to hold?
I'm surprised theres not either a flash sync connector or a hotshoe. Yes there is a built in flash, but thats going to be poor compared with anything external.

But given that the only "new" 35mm camera alternative is to buy a Nikon F6 ... I'm sure there will be lots of interest.
Click to expand...

Hotshoe is mentioned in the first image and is shown on another image furrher down the campaign post.
Hotshoe is shown mounted to left of camera
 
stupar said:
The only bit that i find contradictory is this

I-Plate - Interchangeable Lens Mount

Previously, buying a camera from a particular brand meant people were locked into buying and using lenses from the same manufacturer. This can be frustrating and costly. Reflex’s Interchangeable mount plate makes shooting with lenses produced by other brands possible, meaning photographers can continue using the products they already own and don’t have to purchase expensive new kit.

Unless you spend the £35 per interchangeable lens mount you will be locked into M42.
To truly offer the flexibility of being able to use other lenses without added expense surely means the inclusion of all adaptors as part of the camera purchase.

Or am i thinking about this all wrong?
Click to expand...

I'd imagine It'd bump up the price considerably and, for people who already have a collection of mount-specific lenses, force them to pay for adapters they have no interest in using. I think it would be worth having the option of the mount adapter being chosen by the purchaser though, rather than being locked into an M42 mount as standard.
 
H'mm can't see how the different lens mounts are held into position and also be light tight....bit annoying if you have to attached it with about 5 screws, ok if you just want to use the same make lenses but to be versatile like some digis would have to have a different design from the pics.
 
stupar said:
Hotshoe is mentioned in the first image and is shown on another image furrher down the campaign post.
Hotshoe is shown mounted to left of camera
Click to expand...
You're right ... I missed the hot shoe there
 
excalibur2 said:
H'mm can't see how the different lens mounts are held into position and also be light tight....bit annoying if you have to attached it with about 5 screws, ok if you just want to use the same make lenses but to be versatile like some digis would have to have a different design from the pics.
Click to expand...

I would expect some sort of latch - if you look at the pictures on the Kickstarter page, there's a black button / knob at the bottom-left of the lend mount adapter - maybe that's something to do with it? Whatever the case, I'm sure it won't be built in such a way as to let light in, or for the entire lens and mount to slide off the bottom of the camera mid-shot. :D
 
An interesting project...however £100,000 seems a very low budget.
 
excalibur2 said:
H'mm can't see how the different lens mounts are held into position and also be light tight....bit annoying if you have to attached it with about 5 screws, ok if you just want to use the same make lenses but to be versatile like some digis would have to have a different design from the pics.
Click to expand...

Large format cameras seem to do ok with lens boards.

Many cine cameras have interchangeable mounts as well.

The interchangeable backs idea is interesting. Could open up the possibility of 1:1, 5:4 and even panoramic formats.
 
It looks really interesting, and I hope they succeed - I’m saving my own pennies for the Chroma though :)

Would it be possible to have a 120 back at the same distance as a 35mm back? And would the same lenses still work, do you think? Or would you get the (cough) digital (cough) problem of using a crop sensor lens on a full-frame body, and getting extreme vignetting?
 
I watched the video earlier, and it seems that the lens mount just slides off - rather as the prism does on (some) Nikon and Canon cameras.

Charlotte - the problem would be that 35mm lenses are designed with a circle of coverage to match the 35mm frame, so say 43mm or thereabouts, and you'd get an image circle (probably) of that diameter. Except for shift lenses, which have a bigger image circle and might work - I haven't done the maths. A medium format film back could be engineered to be further behind the camera, allowing medium and large format lenses to be mounted assuming that the lens throat and mirror box were large enough to not block the light path.

The VP Exakta of the 1930s was a 6x4.5 roll film camera, but some models allowed a plate back to be fitted.

Possibly a different project for a truly universal format camera? :D
 
FishyFish said:
I started a thread about this a couple of weeks back (before the Kickstarter). I think it's great that someone is developing a new SLR and I hope it's a success. There seem to be a lot of people who just think why bother when you can pick up a high-end and time proven legacy camera though. It's not an attitude I share, and I like the feature set that this has - if it's further developed to give additional customisation options such as screens and prisms then even better.
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Sorry Nige, your thread was what got me interested and on their list, but I couldn't find it even doing a search!

I've re-read the page and watched the video, and it seems it does have a depth of field preview button, and also aperture priority. They do seem to be making build quality an aim, too.

stupar said:
Unless you spend the £35 per interchangeable lens mount you will be locked into M42.
To truly offer the flexibility of being able to use other lenses without added expense surely means the inclusion of all adaptors as part of the camera purchase.

Or am i thinking about this all wrong?
Click to expand...

I think you are, Stu! I just have to think of the price as base plus £35, and I can have a K-mount camera. For the same price you can have a Nikon mount etc. It's a bit like the old Tamron Adaptall lenses, as long as I've got a spare mont I can buy anything I want. (Might be worth remembering that they stopped making those when linkages got more complicated, and specifically more electronic... there might be down-stream limitations of interchangeable mounts, but for the target market it seems right to me.)

Terrywoodenpic said:
An interesting project...however £100,000 seems a very low budget.
Click to expand...

Yes, that is a worry.
FruitFlakes said:
Large format cameras seem to do ok with lens boards.

Many cine cameras have interchangeable mounts as well.

The interchangeable backs idea is interesting. Could open up the possibility of 1:1, 5:4 and even panoramic formats.
Click to expand...

Not sure... you'd need some serious adaptations to the wind mechanism for those. Plus the pano option would need a lens with a wider image circle... I suppose a 645 lens would work if they built a mount for it!

Colour me interested, though not yet persuaded. As long as t'missus doesn't find out...
 
mothdust said:
It looks really interesting, and I hope they succeed - I’m saving my own pennies for the Chroma though :)

Would it be possible to have a 120 back at the same distance as a 35mm back? And would the same lenses still work, do you think? Or would you get the (cough) digital (cough) problem of using a crop sensor lens on a full-frame body, and getting extreme vignetting?
Click to expand...

Well Charlotte, we’re on our last day here in Orlando (boooo!) then I’ll be finalising my campaign and getting the Chroma launched as soon as I get back (yay!).

I like the look of the Reflex, particular the fact that they’re CNC machining the body which should mean good tolerances although it will also explain the cost. Either way, it’s great to see more analogue systems coming to market.
 
The wind on appears to be integral with the back, so it shouldn't pose a problem if the body itself doesn't block the light path. Of course, given that it is an SLR, there must be a mirror in there; and the mirror is going to be 35mm size, so you'd only see the centre of a larger image. This didn't stop some makers (Corfield's Periflex springs to mind) where you used reflex focussing, but could have a separate viewfinder to see the whole frame area.

This is beginning to get into the realms of what could be a basic view camera with interchangeable backs to accept different film sizes, and lens panels to allow mounting of different lenses. Given that view cameras can have focal plane shutters, it is in principle possible, but it's a different concept.

One thing worth noting is that it is possible to mount medium format lenses (Hasselblad if I remember correctly) on a Sony a7, so in principle there's nothing to stop a lens adaptor being made for medium format lenses.
 
ChrisR said:
I think you are, Stu! I just have to think of the price as base plus £35, and I can have a K-mount camera. For the same price you can have a Nikon mount etc. It's a bit like the old Tamron Adaptall lenses, as long as I've got a spare mont I can buy anything I want. (Might be worth remembering that they stopped making those when linkages got more complicated, and specifically more electronic... there might be down-stream limitations of interchangeable mounts, but for the target market it seems right to me.)
Click to expand...


I was more coming from the angle that they are touting it as "use all the legacy lenses that are of varying mounts".
Now lets just say that you have a favourite lens from each legacy mount that you would wish to use. Thats an extra £140 on top of the £399 (non early bird price).

All or a sudden its not as desirable in my opinion.

Chances are aswell that if you already have a cross selection of lenses of varying mounts you already have the appropriate film cameras to use them and or have gone down the digital route with mount adaptors and have zero interest in film photography.

As stated above though, they should at least let you choose which mount you would prefer when purchasing.
M42 is in abundance yes but its not in everyones legacy lens line up.
 
Well just my final view is that I wouldn't buy the camera anyway when I can choose manual or AF with an adapter to take screw lens with a £10 camera like the EOS 300 and doubt it is as sophisticated enough compared to a Canon T90 (also can take screw lenses with an adapter) with matching flashgun...anyway I usually carry two different cameras around with different lenses (also handy to have backup). And is the interchangeable back that important when you wind different films back and all you have to do is note the frame No.
 
The Rolleiflex 3003 and variants was a 35mm SLR with interchangable film holders and finders - see https://www.cameraquest.com/rol3003.htm.

In my youth I gazed at them longingly in the camera shop window and dreamt of owning one. By the time I might possibly afford a second hand one, the price of medim format system cameras had dropped so much that there was no longer any point in paying for a 35mm camera with those features.
 
Its the usual kickstarter tactic of a solution looking for a problem.

If you've got a load of lenses and you want to try film, a top quality SLR is a cheap and easy option, with none of the disadvantages of this system.

There's clearly 'features' built in that are attractive to noobs but have no desirable advantages to real world photographers (both a small onboard flash and LED light... FFS)
 
stevelmx5 said:
https://www.35mmc.com/08/11/2017/stop-bloody-moaning-support-film-photography-industry/

An excellent article from Hamish that sums up the attitude of some supposedly film photographers knocking about on Facebook/DP etc. Well worth a read.
Click to expand...

HUH! the guy must be rich to spend over £400 for a camera with a few adapters that's mostly inferior to old cameras you can buy S\H a lot, lot cheaper :rolleyes:..For film to succeed it needs the billion or so (guess) of digi users to use a film camera now and again and if no one is going to promote\advertise to Joe public "use\try film" then it will stay as it is. When my young grandchildren laugh at me using a film camera it's going to be hard going.
 
excalibur2 said:
HUH! the guy must be rich to spend over £400 for a camera with a few adapters that's mostly inferior to old cameras you can buy S\H a lot, lot cheaper :rolleyes:..For film to succeed it needs the billion or so (guess) of digi users to use a film camera now and again and if no one is going to promote\advertise to Joe public "use\try film" then it will stay as it is. When my young grandchildren laugh at me using a film camera it's going to be hard going.
Click to expand...

Have you read the article yet Brian? He even says that he hasn’t really got £350 to spend but he’s backed the camera for the good of the film community (as others maybe should?). The point of the article was that new blood in the film arena can’t possibly be a bad thing, regardless of the fact there are many thousands of ‘classics’ and Canon T90’s.

I think your grandkids are probably mildly blinded by your thermo-nuclear flashgun rather than laughing at the film being used [emoji6]
 
excalibur2 said:
HUH! the guy must be rich to spend over £400 for a camera with a few adapters that's mostly inferior to old cameras you can buy S\H a lot, lot cheaper :rolleyes:..For film to succeed it needs the billion or so (guess) of digi users to use a film camera now and again and if no one is going to promote\advertise to Joe public "use\try film" then it will stay as it is. When my young grandchildren laugh at me using a film camera it's going to be hard going.
Click to expand...

. POINT










BRIAN

:D
 
Film photography is on the rise, as is evidenced by the price of s/h film cameras going up (significantly in the case of some models). Maybe this is just a fad, and things will drop off again in a year or two, but any attempt to bring a new camera to market is a good thing IMO. Without new cameras being produced, eventually working old cameras will become scarcer and ever more expensive, leading to fewer people buying and processing film, and a general decline in the format.

This new camera doesn't have to be the best camera ever made to succeed, and anyone who doesn't like it, or is happy with legacy cameras is under no obligation to back the Kickstarter or buy the finished product. If it turns out to be a bad camera it will fail of it's own accord. But, if it's a good camera (even if not best in class) then it may result in further new cameras being brought into production - ones that are even better, or include features previously unavailable with older technology. This is a good thing. At the very least, it will be the option of a brand-new, supported, in-production camera being available for those who want one.
 
stevelmx5 said:
think your grandkids are probably mildly blinded by your thermo-nuclear flashgun rather than laughing at the film being used
emoji6.png
Click to expand...

Actually I'm sure they would be interested in Polaroid to see the shots right away and the fascination seeing it work...but been there done it and am not interested. :(
 
FishyFish said:
Film photography is on the rise, as is evidenced by the price of s/h film cameras going up (significantly in the case of some models). Maybe this is just a fad, and things will drop off again in a year or two, but any attempt to bring a new camera to market is a good thing IMO. Without new cameras being produced, eventually working old cameras will become scarcer and ever more expensive, leading to fewer people buying and processing film, and a general decline in the format.

This new camera doesn't have to be the best camera ever made to succeed, and anyone who doesn't like it, or is happy with legacy cameras is under no obligation to back the Kickstarter or buy the finished product. If it turns out to be a bad camera it will fail of it's own accord. But, if it's a good camera (even if not best in class) then it may result in further new cameras being brought into production - ones that are even better, or include features previously unavailable with older technology. This is a good thing. At the very least, it will be the option of a brand-new, supported, in-production camera being available for those who want one.
Click to expand...

Well I agree with you in principle..but £400 for a camera to try\play with film most newbies don't want to pay that sort of money and IMO pros\advanced amateurs won't want it. Anyway we can all talk so how many here I going to buy\invest it?
 
excalibur2 said:
HUH! the guy must be rich to spend over £400 for a camera with a few adapters that's mostly inferior to old cameras you can buy S\H a lot, lot cheaper :rolleyes:.
Click to expand...

I forgot to add, what makes you think this camera is inferior to an existing SLR? If you buy a fully manual SLR (as some of the snooty purists suggest online), you’re going to probably have to replace the foam seals, possibly get a full CLA (to make sure that the clockwork internals are timed correctly) and still risk repairs being impossible due to parts availability. If you buy an electronic SLR, you’re then in the realms of getting the right batteries, contending with corrosion due to the mercury battery that’s been sitting in it for 20 years and how many manual or semi-automatic “classic” SLRs give you 1/4000th shutter speed and full exif details?

While you’re probably not the target market (and neither am I specifically for a 35mm SLR), that doesn’t mean it’s a failed product.
 
Ive been down the film route twice, first with a Canon 300X and second with a Minolta X300.
The latter brought back the warm fuzzy feeling for film but at the mere cost of £40 for the camera and lenses (decent lenses at that).
I wouldnt pay £400 plus to go down that route when there are cheaper alternative solutions if i was really wanting to take it seriously.

The combination of film but with fancy electronics e.g blutooth etc just screams hipster to me.
 
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excalibur2 said:
Well I agree with you in principle..but £400 for a camera to try\play with film most newbies don't want to pay that sort of money and IMO pros\advanced amateurs won't want it. Anyway we can all talk so how many here I going to buy\invest it?
Click to expand...

I don't have the spare cash to buy one at present (well, not that I want to spend on a new SLR anyway), but I'll see what it's like when it is released. I might consider investing in one of the lower-priced options though because I do want it to succeed. I've wasted money on much worse things. :)
 
stevelmx5 said:
I forgot to add, what makes you think this camera is inferior to an existing SLR? If you buy a fully manual SLR (as some of the snooty purists suggest online), you’re going to probably have to replace the foam seals, possibly get a full CLA (to make sure that the clockwork internals are timed correctly) and still risk repairs being impossible due to parts availability. If you buy an electronic SLR, you’re then in the realms of getting the right batteries, contending with corrosion due to the mercury battery that’s been sitting in it for 20 years and how many manual or semi-automatic “classic” SLRs give you 1/4000th shutter speed and full exif details?

While you’re probably not the target market (and neither am I specifically for a 35mm SLR), that doesn’t mean it’s a failed product.
Click to expand...

Hey negative vibes for S\H cameras :D There can't be many of us who have bought all their cameras new. Also the camera is old fashioned in one way in using stop down metering (I think)? and for exit data I use a pencil and paper.
 
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stupar said:
The combination of film but with fancy electronics e.g blutooth etc just screams hipster to me.
Click to expand...

Until you want to use a feature e.g. taking shots of fireworks with say the T90.. I sat in a chair with the shutter cable and camera set at 8 secs..all I did was press the shutter button and the camera auto wound on for the next 8 sec shot (y)
 
We do seem to be getting away from the point. ANYTHING new in the film world is a good thing, whether it is bought by crusty old farts like Brian and me or young 'hipsters' who happen to like shooting film. It also doesn't matter what price YOU would pay, if there is a market for a camera at that price point then I'm glad someone is going to fill it, there are an awful lot of people out there who do have spare cash and do want to spend it on film stuff.
 
Andysnap said:
We do seem to be getting away from the point. ANYTHING new in the film world is a good thing, whether it is bought by crusty old farts like Brian and me or young 'hipsters' who happen to like shooting film. It also doesn't matter what price YOU would pay, if there is a market for a camera at that price point then I'm glad someone is going to fill it, there are an awful lot of people out there who do have spare cash and do want to spend it on film stuff.
Click to expand...

Most sensible thing said in this thread (others have been almost as equally as sensible).

For the section of the forum who are supposed to be film lovers, it constantly surprises me how many people have negative things to say about stuff like this. Each to their own though I guess. This particular camera would not be for me, I have enough film bodies, however with new film cameras will hopefully come more people who will want to shoot film which in turn will make manufacturers continue to bring back or stop discontinuing film stocks. I would happily never touch a digital body again so I really hope this film resurgence continues for the next 50 years or so!
 
gazmorton2000 said:
For the section of the forum who are supposed to be film lovers, it constantly surprises me how many people have negative things to say about stuff like this.
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..but no one here has said they are going to buy it or invest in it, so what does that say h'mm
 
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