Road accidents website

arclight

arclight

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-15975720

Interesting interactive website there.
Irrespective of the actual reasons the stats for motorbikes are dreadfull. Only 1% of vehicles are motorbikes, but over 20% of fatalities were on motorbikes.
 
arclight said:
Irrespective of the actual reasons the stats for motorbikes are dreadfull. Only 1% of vehicles are motorbikes, but over 20% of fatalities were on motorbikes.
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I am surprised it is as low as 20%
 
arclight said:
Irrespective of the actual reasons the stats for motorbikes are dreadfull. Only 1% of vehicles are motorbikes, but over 20% of fatalities were on motorbikes.
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It's interesting to note that the stats on weekdays aren't far different from other road users, but at the weekends motorbike riders are at far greater risk.

I know people with powerful bikes that only ride them on the weekends when they go out "hooning" on B-roads and so on. Makes me wonder if some of them don't fully respect the machines they are riding, coupled with a certain amount of "Sunday driver syndrome" (lack of observation, driving at 40mph irrespective of the speed limit) amongs certain classes of car users leading to dangerous overtakes.

It is certainly true that a bike rider in even a solo accident lacks the protection afforded to those in cars which will doubtless be a factor, but I'm not sure it's the only factor.
 
I was "playing around" on that site earlier, and can remember all the fatalaties for my immediate area. Especially the one I tried to rescue from his vehicle.

I clicked on some other areas I know 350 miles away, and found a crash that killed three.:crying:
 
onomatopoeia said:
Makes me wonder if some of them don't fully respect the machines they are riding.
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This statement is spot on.

I used to work in a motorcycle store, and unfortunately the amount of people I saw who would buy bikes that were far too powerful for them to control properly. Despite driving cars for 20+ years, a week course for an unrestricted motorcycle licence is not enough to claim you have full control on a powerful motorcycle, and you could see this in some of them, they genuinely looked terrified getting onto their bikes and starting the engine.

I think alot of people forget when they buy bikes that horsepower and torque is relative to weight, 140hp in a car isnt much, 140hp on a bike will destroy any £100k+ sports car.

And yes, some of the people I met and befriended never made it back to the store :(
 
Have you looked up the stats as to who was at fault with the car/ bike accidents
As a biker myself I am not the one running wide at a corner because I'm texting,lighting a cigarette, eating or applying make up
 
Qwickshot said:
Alot of pedestrians in my area getting mown down my teenagers :O
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A lot of teenagers in my area are getting mown down by pedestrians :)
 
stumac said:
Have you looked up the stats as to who was at fault with the car/ bike accidents
As a biker myself I am not the one running wide at a corner because I'm texting,lighting a cigarette, eating or applying make up
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Agreed.

Cars are more likely to pull out in front of a bike/scooter than another car.

Riding my Lambretta daily (well, when its running)! I come up against nightmare drivers constantly.
 
Over here, it shows the death of a two years old girl in 2002 only up the road from my house, that was hard hitting when it happened at the time. It may still be for some.

I've come across a couple of other threads based on this subject elsewhere on the 'net and found it funny how they all turned into a anti-motobike theme.
Of course, some accidents are caused by situations beyond everyone's control but if car drivers don't treat their cars like mobile offices while still on the move, and don't rush around like complete loons in the process then the number of urban road deaths will be far, far less. I've also noticed more drivers getting into the habit of jumping traffic lights lately.
 
Pretty scary stats, and I'm from the small island at the top left of the map, 2 fatalities there years back when I was 20, 29 now, I was there on my first RTA as a retained firefighter. Even worse when it's people you knew. Brings back a lot of other bad memories.
 
Surpising number within 1 mile of my house. I didnt even realise there was 1. Crazy really as all the roads are 20 or 30MPH limit roads, and there are 4 schools within that raduis.
 
Forbiddenbiker said:
Combined car and bike tests would be ideal to correct the problem. Then both idiots would know how dangerous all the other idiots could be.
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Are you suggesting forcing people to ride a bike before they can drive a car, I'd expect road deaths to increase if that were the case

Yes there are a lot of instances involving cars and bikes but I'd think if those statistics are broken down a high proportion will be single vehicle accidents due to speed

People don't buy 150bhp superbikes to tootle about at 60 mph on an A road, the problem is licencing, I took my test on a Yamaha RD250 in 1978

I had a gap of 25 years then got back into biking , started sensibly with a Kawasaki 400cc twin then want on to a bandit 750 ,VFR 800 and a bandit 1200

There was nothing stopping me going straight to the 1200, the guy I sold it to did exactly that, hadn't ridden for 30 years , turned up with a belstaff jacket that looked older than me some mittens a very old helmet and wobbled off up the street
 
wack61 said:
Are you suggesting forcing people to ride a bike before they can drive a car, I'd expect road deaths to increase if that were the case

Yes there are a lot of instances involving cars and bikes but I'd think if those statistics are broken down a high proportion will be single vehicle accidents due to speed

People don't buy 150bhp superbikes to tootle about at 60 mph on an A road, the problem is licencing, I took my test on a Yamaha RD250 in 1978

I had a gap of 25 years then got back into biking , started sensibly with a Kawasaki 400cc twin then want on to a bandit 750 ,VFR 800 and a bandit 1200

There was nothing stopping me going straight to the 1200, the guy I sold it to did exactly that, hadn't ridden for 30 years , turned up with a belstaff jacket that looked older than me some mittens a very old helmet and wobbled off up the street
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I passed my bike test when I was a teenager, a very long time ago, had a fairly bad crash and learned from it - I've never ridden (on the road) since, but I have a full licence so there's nothing to stop me from going out and buying a 200mph bike if I'm stupid enough to think that I'm capable of riding it.

Bikers are very vulnerable to both accidents and injuries - a tiny bit of slippy road or a tiny irregularity in the road surface can cause an accident that a 4 wheeled vehicle wouldn't notice, and an accident that cracks a bumper can kill a biker, so I think that one of the main problems is that they're just inherently dangerous.

A friend of mine was lucky to escape with his life when he stopped at a stop sign and the woman in the car behind him just slowed instead of stopping. She couldn't have been doing more than 10 mph when she hit him but he spent 3 weeks in hospital and his back will never be the same again.

I feel that one of the big problems is that cars today are just too good, they handle well, brake well and have clever electronics that largely compensate for lack of driving skills. And people are taught only to past the test, not to drive safely. I don't claim to have any special skills, but I do feel that because I've been trained to drive cars, vans, lorries and bikes and because I learned on vehicles that didn't stop, steer or even go well, I've gained some insight into the problems that other drivers have.
 
you can buy any bike you want it will ONLY EVER go as fast as you twist the throttle, that said mate had a 1000cc 10 years ago and said he wanted to get back into biking, I told him to get a 600 and start again as a 600 these days would nock spots off his 1000 he had but he did not listen and went out bought a GSXR1000, he had it all of 6 weeks, then got rid and never got on a bike again.

was such a pleasure saying to him "told you so"

I had a break of 20 years on bikes, got a R6 8 years ago learned my trade again did tracxk days and worked up a 1000, got rid as the arthritis set in and have a BMW 1200 gsa which is fun as I can ride it faster than most on their sports bikes ha ha!!! all about learning your trade.

some people will never learn though thats the thing, roads in UK or anywhere else for that matter are no place for a bike with 180BHP at the back wheel getting ridden at full chat.

Car drivers are not looking for bikes when they pull out of a junction as why would they always say, "oh never seen you mate"

I agree with forbidden biker, all people should ride a scooter first before getting behind the wheel of a car it would make them more aware of motorcyclists. If they are not prepared to do this then they do not get to drive a car, simples.
Something like what the taxi drivers do round london to learne the roads.

spike
 
SpikeK6 said:
I agree with forbidden biker, all people should ride a scooter first before getting behind the wheel of a car it would make them more aware of motorcyclists. If they are not prepared to do this then they do not get to drive a car, simples.
Something like what the taxi drivers do round london to learne the roads.
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And I disagree. While when I was 16 I knew people that were desparate to get on a 125 so they didn't have to wait to 17 to take driving lessons, I never did. I have no desire to ride any two wheeled vehicle, motorised or pedal powered. I was dangerous (to myself) on a pushbike, I'd be hopeless on a motorbike as I have a terrible sense of balance. I'm sure I could quite easily have an accident at 30mph on a deserted, dry, straight piece of road in good visibility simply due to my own lack of ability to stay on the thing, so no, I do not wish to be made to ride one to gain access to a vehicle which requires a very different skillset.

You don't have to have ridden a motorbike to treat them with respect on the roads. I have no problem spotting motorbikes, either out of my windows or in my mirrors and always give them plenty of room, just like I do for cyclists, pedestrians and horse riders. It's only common sense after all, my vehicle weighs over a ton and generally won't fall over in an accident, theirs weighs much less and will.

The only time I have ever found it hard to pick a motorcycle is if they have the setting sun behind them and they have their headlight on (curiously it makes them harder to pick out than if the light is off).
 
onomatopoeia said:
The only time I have ever found it hard to pick a motorcycle is if they have the setting sun behind them and they have their headlight on (curiously it makes them harder to pick out than if the light is off).
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Most modern bikes wont allow you to turn off the headlight, mine wont.
I think this is because its suggested in the highway code that bikes should have their headlights on at all times for visibility.

Then again, you should never pull out if you are not 100% sure what's coming down the road.

The suggestion of making all car drivers ride a motorbike before they can drive a car in my opinion, as a biker, is silly. I have a friend, who cannot balance on a push bike or a motorbike (we tried, and admitted defeat when he took a five feet, one inch deep gouge out of a car park) and I know he will never ever try a motorcycle again. But I have absolutely no reason to doubt that he will be a fantastic car driver when he starts learning as he is inherantly careful and observant. I imagine there are alot of people out there like him.

E.g. the first power bracket you could drive up to a 1.2l car, second bracket 1.6, third 2.0, fourth 3.0, fifth 3.0+. Or something along those lines with horsepower.

The other suggestion that has been made by various motoring groups, is that cars and bikes should be bracketed into power ratings. You get your licence and start off with a licence entitling you to ride the lowest power bracket (for either car or motorcycle) and you have to pass a further test to move onto the next power bracket. Similar to how 17 year olds can get their full motorcycle licence, they pass the test and are restricted to 33bhp for 2 years. If the brackets for cars and bikes were relative to one another (e.g. a 1000cc sports bike is in the same bracket as a high powered sports car) then I think people would treat them with alot more respect realising the power hidden in the engine.

It just really grates me up that a 17 year old taking his bike test is restricted to 33bhp by force, whereas they can take their car test and go jump into a ferrari, which one is going to be more dangerous to other road users?
 
wack61 said:
Are you suggesting forcing people to ride a bike before they can drive a car, I'd expect road deaths to increase if that were the case

Yes there are a lot of instances involving cars and bikes but I'd think if those statistics are broken down a high proportion will be single vehicle accidents due to speed

People don't buy 150bhp superbikes to tootle about at 60 mph on an A road, the problem is licencing, I took my test on a Yamaha RD250 in 1978

I had a gap of 25 years then got back into biking , started sensibly with a Kawasaki 400cc twin then want on to a bandit 750 ,VFR 800 and a bandit 1200

There was nothing stopping me going straight to the 1200, the guy I sold it to did exactly that, hadn't ridden for 30 years , turned up with a belstaff jacket that looked older than me some mittens a very old helmet and wobbled off up the street
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Agree with that in para 1. Only ever been on a motorbike as a passenger. Did not like it one bit and once was enough.

Making bikes and their riders as bright and conspicuous as possible seems the only reasonable way forward.
 
High speed Bus :shrug:

Scotland.jpg
 
arclight said:
Agree with that in para 1. Only ever been on a motorbike as a passenger. Did not like it one bit and once was enough.

Making bikes and their riders as bright and conspicuous as possible seems the only reasonable way forward.
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Out in the country side that works well. (y)

There is also a valid argument than inner city riders wearing one colour, like black, as well as any other solid colour, stands out clearly against the confusing and often multicoloured background of an inner city. I've tried both sides myself during six years as a London dispatch rider, I now dress all black in town, and also utilise a loud exhaust to make my presence known.

wack61 said:
Are you suggesting forcing people to ride a bike before they can drive a car, I'd expect road deaths to increase if that were the case

Yes there are a lot of instances involving cars and bikes but I'd think if those statistics are broken down a high proportion will be single vehicle accidents due to speed

People don't buy 150bhp superbikes to tootle about at 60 mph on an A road, the problem is licencing, I took my test on a Yamaha RD250 in 1978

I had a gap of 25 years then got back into biking , started sensibly with a Kawasaki 400cc twin then want on to a bandit 750 ,VFR 800 and a bandit 1200

There was nothing stopping me going straight to the 1200, the guy I sold it to did exactly that, hadn't ridden for 30 years , turned up with a belstaff jacket that looked older than me some mittens a very old helmet and wobbled off up the street
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Not before, but in combination, both sides would know the potential dangers of the other before either could gain a licence.

Your probably right about the break down ... It would be interesting to know just how sperated the types are...Id say about 50% of my accident have been down to cars not seeing me and the rest down to my stupid riding.
However some of that stupid riding crashes was down to me not realising how isolated and unaware a car drivers experience could be (younger days)...so again if Id know how poor his awareness could be Id have driven more slowly and not made the error. .. erm yes I know there's hypocrisy in their, you get my gist I hope.

I don't think your right about accidents increasing, Why would that be? with my combination test idea? ... after all people can't use both vehicles at the same time so its not adding to the numbers, Its just altering the ratios of choice of vehicle type.

BTW. RD250 was my first bike.:D :clap: ..I still have half of one. lol
 
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One of the accidents near me a few years ago: The rider of the motorbike, a teenage boy aged 13, died.

:(
 
inaneredstripe said:
I ride a motorbike. the fact is your a lot more vulnerable on a bike. its something riders are aware of.
Then again, crossing the bloody road is dangerous.
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Pretty sure that is the biggest factor in why there are so many fatalities. Apart from a helmet bikers only have clothing for protection.

Can a biker tell me this. When the rain is belting down how do you see through the helmet visor?
 
arclight said:
Pretty sure that is the biggest factor in why there are so many fatalities. Apart from a helmet bikers only have clothing for protection.

Can a biker tell me this. When the rain is belting down how do you see through the helmet visor?
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The helmet visors are pretty good these days, I always carry a clear one with me for times when it rains, dark one for sunny times.
The clear one has an extra layer inside to stop it fogging up and the wind brushes the water off when travling, you can turn your head slightly to clear water.

It still not as good as wipers on a car but not as bad as if you turned the wipers off on a car, if that makes sence, then you slow down aswell and ride to the conditions, bikes will not go round a corner in the wet as good as a car so extra care is needed, also over banding in the road and man holes are lethal.

There is a few times when being in france and italy I have actually stopped under a bridge as the rain is so heavy that it hurts you as it comes down.
 
I did my bike test about 6 years after my car test, and was cylcing a fair bit at the time as well. I think my road awareness had never been so good, seeing the perspectives from all sides, so I understand the point about people doing bikes tests as well. I'd disagree with forcing people to do it, but certainly if, as some TV adverts have done, the differences on a bike were better explained to people this should hopefully improve things.
 
I had a little twist and go motor scooter when i was 17, not quite a motorbike i know but i will say one thing it has made me so much more aware of the road and other road users now i am behind the wheel of a car. I often ride pillion on the back of my partners bike and am now learning to ride myself. I love it but there are other road users (not just limited to cars) that often ruin it, who seem in such a hurry that they become blind to others on the road!
 
SpikeK6 said:
The helmet visors are pretty good these days, I always carry a clear one with me for times when it rains, dark one for sunny times.
The clear one has an extra layer inside to stop it fogging up and the wind brushes the water off when travling, you can turn your head slightly to clear water.

It still not as good as wipers on a car but not as bad as if you turned the wipers off on a car, if that makes sence, then you slow down aswell and ride to the conditions, bikes will not go round a corner in the wet as good as a car so extra care is needed, also over banding in the road and man holes are lethal.

There is a few times when being in france and italy I have actually stopped under a bridge as the rain is so heavy that it hurts you as it comes down.
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Yes me too, most heavy showers don't last that long so I'm soon away again.

I just love the anti fog system on my Shoei .... Its like OMG! I can see, pant pant, nothing... OMG I can still see :eek: ....one of the best safety inventions ever in my book.

I think because the visor is so close to our eyes unlike a windscreen, its actually quite reasonable vision as you focus passed the drops of water ...A bit like hyper-focal distance after the visor so then all then droplets are in Bokeh.
 
SpikeK6 said:
The helmet visors are pretty good these days, I always carry a clear one with me for times when it rains, dark one for sunny times.
The clear one has an extra layer inside to stop it fogging up and the wind brushes the water off when travling, you can turn your head slightly to clear water.

It still not as good as wipers on a car but not as bad as if you turned the wipers off on a car, if that makes sence, then you slow down aswell and ride to the conditions, bikes will not go round a corner in the wet as good as a car so extra care is needed, also over banding in the road and man holes are lethal.

There is a few times when being in france and italy I have actually stopped under a bridge as the rain is so heavy that it hurts you as it comes down.
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Yes, I thought that aerodynamics would help clear water off the visor.
 
SpikeK6 said:
The clear one has an extra layer inside to stop it fogging up and the wind brushes the water off when travling, you can turn your head slightly to clear water.
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When the anti fog layer starts wearing out from use, you can rub in a little bit of washing up liquid into the visor with a sponge. That also helps to stop it fogging up.

Same as the outside of the visor, a bit of washing up liquid rubbed in with a sponge and left to dry leaves a nice fine film on the visor which water just runs straight off with no need for wind or anything.

However, when I say a little bit of washing up liquid, I mean a LITTLE bit, too much and you will have the liquid froth up and go everywhere. Like I have done on more than one occasion and found out the error of my ways on the motorway :bang:
 
Guess what. With my username I ride a bike, daily, all year.
So let's answer a few things.

wack61 said:
People don't buy 150bhp superbikes to tootle about at 60 mph on an A road, the problem is licencing,
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Depends really. The majority of people who commute distances have large capacity bikes. They are heavier, more stable and capable of handling the weather and large distances (comfier too). Power to get you into position, out of trouble and really good stable handling and brakes as well.

I have 162bhp, I think I've only ever fully opened the throttle about 3 times in my time of owing it, because you just don't have to.

Comparing similar experience, Bikers tend to have much more road sense than drivers. We have a greater visibility, a better understanding and feel of the road surface and you learn to read what other drivers are about to do.

I commute around 20k miles a year, nearly everyday by bike. What I have noticed is that increasingly there are more distractions in modern cars and people seem to be more stressed and rushed, leading to increasing poor standards of driving. Jumping red lights is now common, distraction from phones, satnavs, radios etc all lead to a lack of concentration. It's no wonder that if you drill down into motorbike accident statistics you'll find nearly two thirds involve another vehicle. If you further split the accidents down to commuters against weekend 'fun' riders, you'll find that statistic rises to nearly 80% with a large percentage being the fault of the driver not motorcyclist.

So, to avoid this we have to be completely aware of our surroundings and other road users. Luckily we don't have those distractions drivers have.
 
Modern clothing for bikers is brilliant. In poor weather, the old bel staff type clothing would harden, didn't keep the heat in etc. modern clothing is light, warm, waterproof and things like heated clothing is cheap(ish). It's also a lot stronger, protective etc. I now have armour built into my clothing.

Helmet design helps keep visors fog free (or bob Heath defogger spray is brilliant), rain just streams off especially if you turn your head slightly to each side. As said previously the rain drops are so close to your face that you don't really focus on them.
 
inaneredstripe said:
I ride a motorbike. the fact is your a lot more vulnerable on a bike. its something riders are aware of.
Then again, crossing the bloody road is dangerous.
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Yup, most bikers are well aware of the fact that they're vulnerable. I wonder how many biker fatalities do NOT involve another vehicle.
arclight said:
Pretty sure that is the biggest factor in why there are so many fatalities. Apart from a helmet bikers only have clothing for protection.

Can a biker tell me this. When the rain is belting down how do you see through the helmet visor?
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A well designed helmet/visor will cause the airflow over the visor to drag most of the rain off to the side and the use of a wetting agent can help that process as well.
 
Bilko said:
Agreed.

Cars are more likely to pull out in front of a bike/scooter than another car.

Riding my Lambretta daily (well, when its running)! I come up against nightmare drivers constantly.
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Agree as well
Been riding 30 years most bike fatalities are caused by other road users


Do also agree tho that new riders do need more training before they get on a bike
 
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As someone who always commutes on two wheels, either pushbike or the one with the big engine in it:D, I can say I feel far more vulnerable on the pushbike.

I'm with Forbidden about urban motorbike riding, I don't bother with high viz any more and just wear black and use a blip of throttle to announce my presence when required.

I was looking for figures on single rider collisions and came across this site, didn't answer my question, but does say that 76% of fatalities are riding bikes over 500cc.... Hmmm....all of a sudden that DRZ 400 I was considering is looking a bit more attractive. Having said that, the cyclist stats are a bit concerning too, so with my commuting I'd better make sure my will is up to date:eek:
 
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There is a bypass that runs around my estate, nice and wide with sweeping bends and every weekend i have to listen to bikes screaming there way along it, do the police set up speed traps or even patrol the road, no instead they erect signs telling me to be aware of bikers.

I suppose the reason im more miffed about this is i got to go on a speed awareness course because at 6am i was caught doing 32 in a 30 on a oneway 3 lane road and i was the only bugger on it at the time.

Seems to me if your a biker your above the law and many bikers know this.
 
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