Rumor image of canon mirrorless! Now Officially Released!

[POAH]

I'm thinking of my wife, a compact user that does want better quality etc but its not that compact in reality. its still going to have to have huge lenses

But it's not aimed at you or me is it.

It's new, it's different, it's got Canon written on it and they will market the legs off it pre-Xmas.

It's also much smaller and lighter than a comparable DSLR (and the target users don't use eye-level viewfinders even when they've got one) it's got great video features and (hopefully) an AF system that works better than the competition with moving subjects. I think they've gone for a larger sensor than 4/3rds because buyers want 'those blurry backgrounds' which you'll get more of, especially with the f/2 lens. The EF adapter mostly an irrelevance I think - a 'marketing' feature, and a sop to us lot.

EOS-M doesn't seem very revolutionary but I guess this is the best Canon can do with the technology right now, and they can't afford to let another Xmas go by. It'll sell loads, the street price will drop to whatever it needs to be, and the tech will surely get better. Nikon looks like they've pulled a bit of a neat flanker ATM, and they have phase-contrast detect AF on-sensor too. I expect Sony won't be far behind. The battle lines are drawn

 

[POAH]

because of the type of person its aimed at - when I had my 5D2 an on board flash would have been nice in some instances.

PS. I am a little surprised that people critisise the lack of on board flash as normally many people seem to say that on board flash is a waste of time and you really should use a speedlight

 

[Llamaman]

Inbuilt can be useful for a bit of fill-flash - better than no flash at all!

The unofficial flip-up bounce flash on GF2 is useful too - I'll miss it on my next body.

 

[stevelmx5]

disappointed at the price which is ridiculously high but also rather disappointed that they seem to have completely ignored us legacy glass users, they had a great opportunity to release an fd adapter but guess they are not interested in that segment

Canon don't make adapters for any other mounts for legacy glass so I'm not sure why this mount is any different? Give it a few months and eBay will be full of legacy adapters (and EF mount adapters!) like it is now for existing mounts.

Steve

 

[Mikesphotaes]

Ahahaahaha...

Rediculous!

Aye, that will make it so much easier to use on holiday

 

[redhed17]

Ahahaahaha...

I want to see that combo side on, because that lens is not looking that big in comparison to the body.

Now this from Techradar is more like it. Even with a 'not that large' lens it looks unbalanced. We'll have to wait to see what reviewers and users think. :shrug:

And this is closer to what I expect the Canon Eos M will look with a larger lens, and looks like it will be even harder to hold that the Sony in the pic because the lens is placed centrally on a smaller body.

If you going to use older lenses, then you are losing an awful lot for a decrease in size and weight.

These small cameras look stupid with a large lens on imho.

Always reminds me of these types of pic.

 

[Spy]

I think Canon may struggle with this half hearted, middle of the road approach.

In my mind, the non-DSLR market is split into four:

- Phone: The majority of people like the convenience of using their smart phones for taking photos, sharing them with friends etc.

- Point and Shoot: People who want decent quality pics in a small body for holidays etc. This is where the likes of the TZ20/25/30, SOny HX9/20 etc sit

- High End Compact: This is where those who understand quality or want a go anywhere compliment to their DSLR are. Cameras such as Fuji X10, SOny RX100 sit

- Enthusiast Compact System: This is the GH2 and OMD cameras are, typically used by enthusiasts as alternatives to DSLR and want interchangeable lenses.

I think cameras like the GF3 and PENS will struggle in the future because they are not one or the other and don't really have a clear target market.

This new Canon doesn't seem to fit into any of those boxes. It is trying to be a Enthusiast Compact System but lacks the features most people looking at this segment want eg EVF, external controls etc

It also doesn't fit into the lower bracket of High End Compacts as it isn't quite pocketable and more expensive.

I think you will find that the OMD is one of the best selling cameras at the moment because it does most things well for the enthusiast despite its high price. The RX100 is also in demand because it has a clear target market. Canon should have brought out a premium product at a premium price to compete with the OMD and create demand and "lust". They could have then brought out a cut down cheaper product like this one that would have at least attracted all those that couldn't afford the premium product but wanted to have something close to it. At the moment, other than EOS lens compatability, there are better products at higher prices and better products at lower prices !

 

[simonblue]

I know Nikon and Sony do, and I recall Olympus making an adapter for their 4/3rds lenses.

The body:lens size ratio is pretty funny looking though.

Nikon do,got one

 

[6950rpm]

Preorder deposit paid at lunchtime

Will just have to wait till Oct now.

Will compliment my other bodies really nicely I think.

Can't wait.

 

[michael23]

Preorder deposit paid at lunchtime

Will just have to wait till Oct now.

Will compliment my other bodies really nicely I think.

Can't wait.

Which kit have you gone for?

 

[6950rpm]

Black body, 22mm lens and the EF-EF M adapter.

 

[Musicman]

Canon don't make adapters for any other mounts for legacy glass so I'm not sure why this mount is any different? Give it a few months and eBay will be full of legacy adapters (and EF mount adapters!) like it is now for existing mounts.

Steve

q

They certainly *used* to make adapters for M42, T-mount, etc. to FD, and there was a short lived Canon FD to EF adapter ( which now goes for close to £1000 second hand).

 

[michael23]

Look forward to hearing your thoughts when you get it!

 

[ShrubMonkey]

From the specs and the price, I'm amazed at Canon, they took all this time to bring a mirrorless camera to market, it could have been amazing. The specs are average and the price is way too high IMHO

 

[magicaxeman]

I think canon have missed the ball on this one.

Ok there is still a market for a midrange CSC, and I understand the competing with sony aspect but at the top end of the market there is only 1 manufacturer with an APSC sensor camera for the prosumer market and thats Fuji with the x100 and xpro1 camera's.

The lack of optical viewfinder is a mistake, a hybrid evf/optical finder would have been the way to go there.
It is definitely NOT rangefinder styled in the slightest, it reminds me more of an ixus than anything else.
The lack of external controls when the market is showing that most want more dedicated external controls such as shutter speed, aperture, exposure compensation etc, heck both the G1x and G12 have more external controls and both have a viewfinder too.
As for the sensor, if it is indeed the EOS 650D sensor then thats a good move as its an amazing sensor performance wise with a larger dynamic range than the 60D and better high ISO noise reduction as well from the test shots I've seen.
I also like the fact that instead of relying solely on contrast detect for the autofocus, that it uses phase detect as well, this should help reduce hunting in low light conditions.

Personally, if I had the money to spend (I dont) then I still wouldn't buy it, nothing about it excites me apart from the sensor.
If they could come up with a camera to beat the Fuji Xpro1 at its own game then I would be raving about it but to my mind thats the camera they have to equal or beat

 

[claves]

The lack of external controls and no vf really kills it for me.

I was looking for a camera with a wide angle to use for close-up portrais and general street photo. That way when i travel i could have my dslr with the 17-55 and the 70-200 and always have a backup handy with a good prime so i dont need to change lenses. That and something light i could take everywhere.

Im probably not the target market though.

 

[6950rpm]

Am not sure how having the controls for shutter speed, aperture, exposure compensation as being external would improve this? You still have all those control but via a touch screen and by initial reports, Canon have done a great job with this.

Rumours seem to point to their being a more 'upmarket' mirrorless body being released at a later date.

 

[6950rpm]

From the Wex Photographic blog...

Accessing the manual control menu is pretty straightforward and is just a matter of pressing the INFO button on the rear of the camera. For example, if you have the camera set up in Av mode and you want to adjust the aperture, it’s as simple as pressing info and then scrolling the click wheel to change it – so it’s definitely not a matter of needing to sort through a load of menus.

 

[HoppyUK]

From the Wex Photographic blog...

Accessing the manual control menu is pretty straightforward and is just a matter of pressing the INFO button on the rear of the camera. For example, if you have the camera set up in Av mode and you want to adjust the aperture, it’s as simple as pressing info and then scrolling the click wheel to change it – so it’s definitely not a matter of needing to sort through a load of menus.

I can see that touch-screen being a killer feature. Better than buttons and menus, and great to demo pre-Xmas, iPhone syle.

 

[BacktotheFuji]

I think you will find that the OMD is one of the best selling cameras at the moment because it does most things well for the enthusiast despite its high price

This isn't actually true. The OMD is the 7th best selling compact system camera at Amazon.co.uk behind the Nikons, Nex-5n, G5 and even the EOS M It's 12th on the US site. Some people just want a small camera with decent IQ, shallow depth of field etc. For street stuff, I'd much rather have my GF1 than an OMD

 

[Musicman]

Rumours seem to point to their being a more 'upmarket' mirrorless body being released at a later date.

I suspect strongly that will be the case if sales of the EOS M aren't a complete washout. Panasonic launched their m4/3 offering with the GF1, Olympus with the Pen.

Canon themselves launched the Autofocus EF mount with the EOS 650, aimed at amateurs, in March 1987, then the EOS 750 (which was AF ONLY, no manual focus) and EOS 850 in October 1988. The EOS 1 didn't appear till September 1989.

I shouldn't be surprised if EF-M cameras with an EVF are intended to eventually supplant EF-S DSLRs when the technology is mature enough in the fullness of time.

 

[6950rpm]

I remember the original EOS launch well. My first EOS was an EOS 620 in the late 80s.

Still have an EOS RT!

It wouldn't surprise me to see some sort of viewfinder that mounts onto the EOS M hotshoe released at some point.

 

[Musicman]

It wouldn't surprise me to see some sort of viewfinder that mounts onto the EOS M hotshoe released at some point.

It would have to be optical one for framing only (Leica III style). There's no suitable data port for an EVF on the EOS M like there is in the NEX 5N or Panasonic GX-1.

 

[Phall82]

Why is the ability to have L glass available on mirrorless ridiculous?

What other mirrorless body has access to a top of the range 70-200IS f2.8 lens with full functionality?

I think the point being made is firstly it looks silly, and secondly the idea of these cameras is to be more compact/lighter than a DSLR. If you are going to stick a 70-200 f/2.8 IS on the front of it then the weight of the camera is relatively insignificant.

Also the grip on the camera will be insufficient and the autofocus won't match what you would want when using an £1,800 lens.

But mainly, it looks ridiculous

 

[ernesto]

As a few people have said, it is all about the target market.
It has no viewfinder and not the right dedicated buttons and is too small in the hand for me. That doesn't make it a bad camera it just means it is not for me (I am not the target audience)
The fact that a high number of cameras are available and selling that are very similar in design to this means the target audience must be large and if I were running a huge camera business I would target the same. I would also charge as much as I thought I could get away with but it does seem overpriced when compared to a similar Nex doesn't it?

It will however provide very good IQ in a small size (i.e. with 22mm lens picture in first example) and will meet the needs of a high number of camera users. The likes of which will not be attaching a 400mm L lens...

 

[arad85]

I think the point being made is firstly it looks silly, and secondly the idea of these cameras is to be more compact/lighter than a DSLR. If you are going to stick a 70-200 f/2.8 IS on the front of it then the weight of the camera is relatively insignificant.

Also the grip on the camera will be insufficient and the autofocus won't match what you would want when using an £1,800 lens.

But mainly, it looks ridiculous

Exactly.

I have a number of L lenses. I wouldn't like to use any of them on a body that has no viewfinder and weighs next to nothing. I'd need a tripod to keep the combination steady enough in all but the brightest of conditions which totally defeats the point of something light and easy to carry. The photo of it attached to the 70-200 makes it look like a glorified rear lens cap....

 

[6950rpm]

Heh!

 

[arad85]

Heh!

Exactly. Pointless. You might just as well have a decent camera on that lens....

 

[POAH]

if the entry level canon mirrorless has a rrp of £769 WTF is a higher spec model going to be.

 

[michael23]

if the entry level canon mirrorless has a rrp of £769 WTF is a higher spec model going to be.

I still can't get over this, a 650d and 18-55 is only £30 more.

 

[stevelmx5]

Heh!

It may look a bit odd but at the end of the day it will still potentially deliver the results yet be considerably lighter than a 5D/7D/1D etc. The fact it's on a tripod with a large lens shows exactly where it would be ideal, you're basically guiding a large lens with a sensor attached. The post above from WEX stating that changing Aperture etc is a simple case of one screen press then turn the dial so fits perfectly into probably 80% of my personal shooting.

Ok, it's not a huge body so can't really be used to hide any deficiencies elsewhere...but it will still give you the shots.

Steve

 

[Musicman]

I still can't get over this, a 650d and 18-55 is only £30 more.

OTOH, the Pentax K-01 is £10 more with an 18-55.

 

[Ricky]

Well, if the price comes down and the image quality and AF performance is up to scratch then it may have a chance.

M4/3, NEX and Fuji has form stable set of loyal customers. The range of m4/3 lenses are great and getting better.

Tough battle, hopefully it fairs better than Nikon 1 series!

 

[Ricky]

Nind you, If they did old school with a look of old Canonet then it would been get more raves!

 

[arad85]

It may look a bit odd but at the end of the day it will still potentially deliver the results yet be considerably lighter than a 5D/7D/1D etc.

Really?

70-200 2.8 IS = 1.5kg
Tripod+ decent mounting plate ~= 3kg
Canon EOS M = 300g
Canon 650D = 575g

Total 4.8kg or 5.08kg It's a difference I wouldn't even consider if I were lugging the gear around - especially as the autofocus performance of the 650 is likely to be better with moving targets. Even a 5D3 is only 650g heavier than the EOS M....

 

[ernesto]

Again, that isn't the purpose of this type of camera. Imagine the 22mm would weigh 150grams, and a 50 1.8 is only 130grams so potentially you could have a camera that is around 450grams with lens and still give very good IQ.
Saying that, the 650D would still only be 700grams with same lenses but it would still be almost twice the weight.

 

[michael23]

This is really an ideal camera for me although I won't be buying one yet.

I have

Gripped 50d with 18-55, 50 f1.8, 50-200, 200 f2.8, 70-300 apo, 50-500 os.

If I had the Eos M, I could ditch the current 18-55 and have the landscape camera body I want and not have to take the 50-500 off when doing wildlife.
And I virtually have just enough space in my backpack for an Eos M to fit in. It would also act as an emergency backup if I needed it whilst out with the 50d.

But then this could be interesting depending on it's features!

 

[Moreorless]

From the specs and the price, I'm amazed at Canon, they took all this time to bring a mirrorless camera to market, it could have been amazing. The specs are average and the price is way too high IMHO

Thats seems to be the way with mirrorless recently, the V1/J1 and the X100 were released at high price points aswell and within a year all of them had been slashed down to a more reasonable level. The whole mirrorless market is I'd say very fashion/trend focused with people willing to overpay for the latest hyped release from a big brand.

I'd say that lenses are increasingly going to become the main battleground, the 18-55mm kits for mirrorless are IMHO even more important than with entry level DSLR's. Looking at reviews Sony's 18-55mm is good but not without its flaws optically so Canon can potentially on up them there and I'm pleasently supprized that it looks to be just as well built.

The 22mm f/2 does seem to clearly one up both Sony and Nikon to me if it performs well, a 35mm f/2 lens pretty clearly makes a better general purpose prime than a 24mm or 28mm f/2.8 for most users.

 

[6950rpm]

There seems to be 2 different kits...

EOS M + 22mm F/2 in black which also comes with the EF / EF-S adapter

or

EOS M + 18-55 (seems to be available in red, white or silver)

Both kits come boxed with the 90EX flash.

Interview with a Canon chap here at 2:12 says that "looking at the feedback so far, seeing if a viewfinder option would be worth doing"

 

[michael23]

I have been trying to find out if the flash came with it, thanks for posting the video link Tim.