Scary Stuff going on in China, Genocide in a modern world?

There may be some truth in the story but I doubt that we're getting an accurate picture.
 
Whatever is going on, and it does seem there are some horrific abuse of Human Beings, the fact that China basically rules the world now (sorry Donald; it's not you) will mean that the West will be effectively powerless to do anything about it. Because we are far too reliant on Chinese goods etc. Because Capitalism, basically. The plight of the Uighurs will sadly be little more than a distraction from Western atrocities being committed in the name of Capitalism. Any 'sanctions' etc will be ineffective and tokenistic. Western society would collapse without the steady flow of cheap goods. Western leaders and politicians will make some noises, there might be a bit of macho sabre rattling, but ultimately do bugger all to actually help anyone.
 
The current diplomatic interactions between UK and China struck me as interesting ~ as in how the Chinese officially react differently towards different countries 'depending' how they perceive that other country.

I think it was last year that on the news there were examples of the way Military observation over flights were "greeted" by the ATC of those South China Seas fortified islands.

The recorded cockpit to ATC conversations between a Phillapines Air Force plane ~ the ATC was positively aggressive and almost overtly threatening compared to a US Air Force plane was treated more neutrally to passive aggressive.

Why did the current situation remind me of that ~ well, the Chinese are p*ssed off with the US but the conversations are relatively moderated....................however the way Chinese and their UK representative behave towards the UK is much more aggressive to the point of overt threats.

Discuss!
 
Why did the current situation remind me of that ~ well, the Chinese are p*ssed off with the US but the conversations are relatively moderated....................however the way Chinese and their UK representative behave towards the UK is much more aggressive to the point of overt threats.
The Chinese know just how belligerent the US is, when it comes to sabre-rattling and machismo, and can't afford to get drawn into any form of conflict there. But it could completely destroy any UK military capability like swatting an annoying fly. The UK isn't the big tough dog it once appeared; it's just a yappy little poodle now.
 
The current diplomatic interactions between UK and China struck me as interesting ~ as in how the Chinese officially react differently towards different countries 'depending' how they perceive that other country.

I think it was last year that on the news there were examples of the way Military observation over flights were "greeted" by the ATC of those South China Seas fortified islands.

The recorded cockpit to ATC conversations between a Phillapines Air Force plane ~ the ATC was positively aggressive and almost overtly threatening compared to a US Air Force plane was treated more neutrally to passive aggressive.

Why did the current situation remind me of that ~ well, the Chinese are p*ssed off with the US but the conversations are relatively moderated....................however the way Chinese and their UK representative behave towards the UK is much more aggressive to the point of overt threats.

Discuss!
Maybe it has something to do with how totally unpredictable the incumbent US President is? Or perhaps it is due to the relative size of the countries 'offending' the Chinese?

I heard a suggestion on the radio earlier today that Boris was 'seriously leaned' on by Trump to prevent Huawei from being used in the UK telecomms network, followed by a comment that maybe the Huawei decision could be reversed if Trump failed to get re-elected .....

Media report which supports the comment I heard....

 
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He was leaned on before he gave Hawauai the 5g contract in January and he still gave them it.
A lot has happened since then of course, I doubt anyone who doesn't have a finger in the China pie will morn the loss.
 
I have more issues with what has had to happen to focus attention on China's behavior, I mean its not like they just started this crap last week.
China are what they've always been but that has been largely ignored for political and economic reasons.
 
China are what they've always been but that has been largely ignored for political and economic reasons.
China has never been "what they've always been". It's a huge country with an enormous population and all sorts of people with many different agendas. I don't think we in the west have more than a hazy idea of what's going on there.
 
He was leaned on before he gave Hawauai the 5g contract in January and he still gave them it.
A lot has happened since then of course, I doubt anyone who doesn't have a finger in the China pie will morn the loss.

He didn’t give Huawei any contract at all. Huawei deal direct with the mobile phone operators, and most of them have crucial network infrastructure based on Huawei hardware. A large part of 3G and 4G traffic is handled by Huawei hardware.
What Johnson did was limit the amount of involvement Huawei could have in the total 5G network infrastructure. Some networks (EE/BT, Vodafone and 3) rely on Huawei a lot for their call routing technology. O2 have hardly any Huawei.
 
I have no doubt that the Chinese regime is one of the vilest and most dangerous on earth and has been for some time. The UK media seem to ignore much of it and I doubt the public care as long as the supply of cheap Chinese stuff keeps rolling in.


I do think the Chinese are over reaching themselves though when it come to internationale relations
lots being talked about at gov levels to start moving away from friendly relations, like russia
 
I have no doubt that the Chinese regime is one of the vilest and most dangerous on earth and has been for some time. The UK media seem to ignore much of it and I doubt the public care as long as the supply of cheap Chinese stuff keeps rolling in.


Substitute Saudi Arabia for China and I would agree with you. The difference is, that we supply Saudi Arabia with weapons and technical support, so that they can carry out a virtual genocide against the Yemenis.
 
I have no doubt that the Chinese regime is one of the vilest and most dangerous on earth and has been for some time. The UK media seem to ignore much of it and I doubt the public care as long as the supply of cheap Chinese stuff keeps rolling in.
The US has instigated wars that have killed millions, undermined democratic regimes in other countries to aid US economic imperialism, aided states such as Saudi Arabia, Israel, Chile etc to commit genocide, and has a massive systemic institutionalised issue of racism within its own borders. Until we view the US in an equally bad light as we do China (and look at our own nation's abhorrent record in terms of Human Rights abuses), then we're all just massive hypocrites.

[Goes off to use Apple devices]
 
Until we view the US in an equally bad light as we do China (and look at our own nation's abhorrent record in terms of Human Rights abuses), then we're all just massive hypocrites.
I agree but fear that, for some people, dislike of China may just be racism dressed up as political dislike of communism. Besides which: China has committed the unpardonable sin of showing that communism can coexist with capitalism and beat the arch capitalists at their own game.
 
I agree but fear that, for some people, dislike of China may just be racism dressed up as political dislike of communism. Besides which: China has committed the unpardonable sin of showing that communism can coexist with capitalism and beat the arch capitalists at their own game.
Yep. This.
 
I agree but fear that, for some people, dislike of China may just be racism dressed up as political dislike of communism. Besides which: China has committed the unpardonable sin of showing that communism can coexist with capitalism and beat the arch capitalists at their own game.
I'm not an apologist for China and fully accept that they badly oppress some ethnic and cultural minorities. But, life for mainstream Chinese people is pretty good and has improved massively in the last few years and their brand of capitalism has benefited their people enormously, and their version of communism hardly affects their people at all. I've read a lot of totally false media reports on life in China and only realised that they are all lies when I started visiting there frequently on business - I remember discussing personal freedoms with a guy in a crowded restaurant, he was asserting that Chinese people can say what they like about their government and proved it by making some extremely loud critical comments - what they don't allow is public demonstrations but individuals have pretty much the same rights of free speech as us. . . Possibly more, because they are allowed to make comments about race, religion and similar.
 
Substitute Saudi Arabia for China and I would agree with you. The difference is, that we supply Saudi Arabia with weapons and technical support, so that they can carry out a virtual genocide against the Yemenis.

Can't we ever have a discussion without changing the terms so that some can have a pop the UK / USA / Trump?

The subject at hand is China, genocide in the modern world and you somehow feel the need to say this? Whilst you're on your subject I hope you also have Iran in your sights too as if not you're just another blinkered left leaning UK hater.

Can nothing ever just be the fault of the evil scumbags actually doing evil? Does it always have to come back to the USA and its poodle UK? On this strange section of the forum populated by the far left UK and wider west haters, apparently not.
 
China has never been "what they've always been". It's a huge country with an enormous population and all sorts of people with many different agendas. I don't think we in the west have more than a hazy idea of what's going on there.

Oh come on Andy. Not to have some idea of the atrocities and crimes against humanity that have been going on and the bullying of neighbours you'd have to have had your fingers and been shouting lalala for decades.
 
Can't we ever have a discussion without changing the terms so that some can have a pop the UK / USA / Trump?

The subject at hand is China, genocide in the modern world and you somehow feel the need to say this? Whilst you're on your subject I hope you also have Iran in your sights too as if not you're just another blinkered left leaning UK hater.

Can nothing ever just be the fault of the evil scumbags actually doing evil? Does it always have to come back to the USA and its poodle UK? On this strange section of the forum populated by the far left UK and wider west haters, apparently not.

Why is highlighting the double standards employed by the U.K. a bad thing?
 
Why is highlighting the double standards employed by the U.K. a bad thing?

because I would like to talk about china, hence the thread I opened about china not like atrocity bull fighting that stuff that you don't like to talk about?
 
because I would like to talk about china, hence the thread I opened about china not like atrocity bull fighting that stuff that you don't like to talk about?

Always happy to talk about bullfighting with you in the bullfighting thread. See you there.
 
I'm not an apologist for China
You don't have to be. It's unfortunate but, to a certain type of person, any realistic assessment of countries like China is seen as one step away from being a member of the communist third column. They seem unable to understand that such thinking is a far greater threat to our way of life than buying computers from the PRC.
 
China is being used as a whipping boy by those Leaders making such a hash of running their own countries. China's trade, scientific, technical and industrial success is in sharp contrast to their own failures.
 
This reminds me of what it might of been like in WW2 Germany, really is very very sad.


I think the Chinese state is already at that point Dave, millions of woman are being forced into sterilisation to essentially wipe out the race.
Any Chinese folk on TP that could add anything?
 
This reminds me of what it might of been like in WW2 Germany, really is very very sad.
There's a vast difference between what we know of the Chinese "re-education" system and the Nazi concentration camps. Communism is a one party system and it is intrinsic that there must be loyalty to the commune. Those who are not loyal to the commune are seen as sick and the cure is re-education.

Judging China our standards is foolish. In 70 years China has taken millions upon millions out of poverty whereas in this country poverty is seen as the fault of the poor and their problem.
 
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This reminds me of what it might of been like in WW2 Germany, really is very very sad.
Y
Both the USA and Australia have done their best to destroy their native peoples, down to taking children away from their families to try to "whiten" them and destroy their culture and faiths.

China believes that they can re-educate these dissident Muslim population and destroy their religious culture. This has been tried many times before elsewhere. and has always failed.
The Cajun people in the USA were originally male french settlers from Canada torn from their families and transported by the British. The poem Evangeline shows the sad horror of this act.

However this will not prevent China trying.
 
Both the USA and Australia have done their best to destroy their native peoples, down to taking children away from their families to try to "whiten" them and destroy their culture and faiths.

China believes that they can re-educate these dissident Muslim population and destroy their religious culture. This has been tried many times before elsewhere. and has always failed.
The Cajun people in the USA were originally male french settlers from Canada torn from their families and transported by the British. The poem Evangeline shows the sad horror of this act.

However this will not prevent China trying.

Very interesting that you have left out the UK and other European countries.
Mmm, wonder why?
Have you heard about the Belgium Congo and the genocide there?
King Leopold
Italy and Abysinnia?
France and Algeria?
Israel and Palestine?
 
Very interesting that you have left out the UK and other European countries.
Mmm, wonder why?
Have you heard about the Belgium Congo and the genocide there?
King Leopold
Italy and Abysinnia?
France and Algeria?
Israel and Palestine?

Absolutely the list is endless.
 
Can't we ever have a discussion without changing the terms so that some can have a pop the UK / USA / Trump?
Not really, no. Those in glass houses, etc. Whilst it may well be true that atrocities are being committed in China, and I don't doubt they are, similar atrocities have been committed in the name of Western Imperialism, and continue to be. The US is being led by a shady cartel driven by an ultra-right wing, fascist agenda, fronted by vile, racist, misogynist scumbag bent on nothing more than satisfying his own pathetic ego. Whilst in the UK, we have an increasingly similar situation, led by a vile, racist, misogynist scumbag bent on nothing more than satisfying his own pathetic ego. Having a 'pop' at them, is the duty of any decent, caring, compassionate and socially conscious Human Being. End of.

We cannot ignore what is/may be happening in China. Because similar did happen in Europe, and not that long ago, relatively. If The West™ is to hold itself up as a beacon for others to follow, it must first set the best example. We have to be mindful that Western propaganda attempts to distract from what is actually going on. Choosing to focus on China is right, if atrocities are being committed. But this must then be followed up by direct action, such as total economic sanctions. We all know this won't happen though. So the next best step is to try to get as much information as possible; I'm sure covert missions are in place to try to gather evidence, such large scale activities can't really go unobserved in our modern world. It's telling, that stories about these camps in China are initially mainly coming through independent media sources, rather than major outlets. We've seen the BBC not report certain events, until they are all over SM etc, and they are forced to. We can't rely on a state broadcaster such as the BBC, for completely accurate, unbiased objectivism.
 
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Not really, no. Those in glass houses, etc. Whilst it may well be true that attoricities are being committed in China, and I don't doubt they are, similar atrocities have been committed in the name of Western Imperialism, and continue to be. The US is being led by a shady cartel driven by an ultra-right wing, fascist agenda, fronted by vile, racist, misogynist scumbag bent on nothing more than satisfying his own pathetic ego. Whilst in the UK, we have an increasingly similar situation, led by a vile, racist, misogynist scumbag bent on nothing more than satisfying his own pathetic ego. Having a 'pop' at them, is the duty of any decent, caring, compassionate and socially conscious Human Being. End of.

We cannot ignore what is/may be happening in China. Because similar did happen in Europe, and not that long ago, relatively. If The West™ is to hold itself up as a beacon for others to follow, it must first set the best example. We have to be mindful that Western propaganda attempts to distract from what is actually going on. Choosing to focus on China is right, if atrocities are being committed. But this must then be followed up by direct action, such as total economic sanctions. We all know this won't happen though. So the next best step is to try to get as much information as possible; I'm sure covert missions are in place to try to gather evidence, such large scale activities can't really go unobserved in our modern world. It's telling, that stories about these camps in China are initially mainly coming through independent media sources, rather than major outlets. We've seen the BBC not report certain events, until they are all over SM etc, and they are forced to. We can't rely on a state broadcaster such as the BBC, for completely accurate, unbiased objectivism.
I'm an atheist, thank God, but I'm happy to quote the bible here John 8:7, viz. “He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.” And the sad fact of the matter is that I can't think of a single country or state that is "without sin" in terms of human rights abuses.

Most states welcome religion, it helps to keep the peasants in order, dreaming of a better life after their death, but AFAIK China only tolerates Buddism, which doesn't seem to be a threat to it. The oppressed minorities in China follow a different religion and perhaps the Chinese state considers that religion to be a threat. Coming much closer to home, we used to kill Roman Catholics, who were considered to be a threat.
 
I watched the BBC documentary last night (part 2 of 5) "Once upon a time in Iraq", which highlighted the "insurgency", the moment Iraqis started fighting back against the US occupation. There was a US officer, Nathan Sassaman who talked about ringing an entire Iraqi town with razor wire, issuing ID cards to all the civilians and then calling in air strikes to teach them a lesson.
Is it any wonder why the US is hated around the World. I m not sure of the point of this documentary, because at times it seemed to be excusing the US war crimes.

 
Buddism is not really a religion. More a lifestyle.
 
I watched the BBC documentary last night (part 2 of 5) "Once upon a time in Iraq", which highlighted the "insurgency", the moment Iraqis started fighting back against the US occupation. There was a US officer, Nathan Sassaman who talked about ringing an entire Iraqi town with razor wire, issuing ID cards to all the civilians and then calling in air strikes to teach them a lesson.
Is it any wonder why the US is hated around the World. I m not sure of the point of this documentary, because at times it seemed to be excusing the US war crimes.

I'm sure there are things that have happened/ are happening, that are truly shocking, and maybe even a parallel to the camps the Uighur people have been forced into. But much information is suppressed of course; individuals complicit won't be wanting to publicise their actions, certainly. The situation in Iraq now, is a direct consequence of the decisions made by Western leaders. Hundreds of thousands dead, millions misplaced, a situation so f***ed up, it has had truly global consequences. The wave of Islamophobia that swept through the Western world following 9-11, that directly impacted many millions across Europe, that demonised and alienated entire communities, and saw a reaction against Western states; that's on our hands. Because WE didn't stop it.
 
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Most states welcome religion, it helps to keep the peasants in order, dreaming of a better life after their death, but AFAIK China only tolerates Buddism, which doesn't seem to be a threat to it. The oppressed minorities in China follow a different religion and perhaps the Chinese state considers that religion to be a threat. Coming much closer to home, we used to kill Roman Catholics, who were considered to be a threat.

Yes. China sees religions as a possible source of seperation/insurrection.The Uighers are viewed more seriously because they are muslims. Infact in the 1990's, following the collapse of the Soviet Union and the establishment of muslim states in Central Asia there was support for seperatist groups in the province (Xinjiang). The wearing of long beards, burkas,hijabs and niqabs is seen as being extremist and the the Chinese government have an anti-extremism law banning all of those in public. Considering the terrorist attacks around the world (including Xinjiang provence) carried out by extreme elements of Islam,not to mention ISIS and similar Islamic extremist groups they certainly do have concerns and President Xi Jinping spoke of the "Toxicity of religious extremism" and also his intention to 'eliminate it'. The state of Xinjiang is pretty well a police state now.

As you see in this article Christians are banned from displaying the cross and Buddhists must swear allegiance to the State.



Buddism is not really a religion. More a lifestyle.

I think the best answer to "Is Buddhism a religion or not ? "is "YO'..:) It shares many aspects of a religion ..Afterlife,for one. Just no god. If that's someone's definition of a religion, then no it isn't. Depends on one's definition. By the way. Buddhism in Tibet is under Chinese state control.
 
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Yes. China sees religions as a possible source of seperation/insurrection.The Uighers are viewed more seriously because they are muslims. Infact in the 1990's, following the collapse of the Soviet Union and the establishment of muslim states in Central Asia there was support for seperatist groups in the province (Xinjiang). The wearing of long beards, burkas,hijabs and niqabs is seen as being extremist and the the Chinese government have an anti-extremism law banning all of those in public. Considering the terrorist attacks around the world (including Xinjiang provence) carried out by extreme elements of Islam,not to mention ISIS and similar Islamic extremist groups they certainly do have concerns and President Xi Jinping spoke of the "Toxicity of religious extremism" and also his intention to 'eliminate it'. The state of Xinjiang is pretty well a police state now.

As you see in this article Christians are banned from displaying the cross and Buddhists must swear allegiance to the State.





I think the best answer to "Is Buddhism a religion or not ? "is "YO'..:) It shares many aspects of a religion ..Afterlife,for one. Just no god. If that's someone's definition of a religion, then no it isn't. Depends on one's definition. By the way. Buddhism in Tibet is under Chinese state control.

I agree. In my mind, no Deity = no religion.
 
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