School photos

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Pezza4u

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Rich
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For the past 2 years the photographer at my sons school has taken the photo of him against a white background, while he's wearing a white t-shirt and not his red jumper. The preview they sent us shows his head clearly and the rest of his body blends into the background! :cuckoo:

As this is his last year in junior school we wanted the photos this year but I'm not prepared to pay for these cos of the whites clashing. I have a D5000, tripod and kit lens....do you think it would be possible for me to take some photos at home? Will this be enough or do I need anything else? Any tips for this kind of photography?

I know at the school they'd have lots of lights, flashes, umbrellas etc but if I can get some half decent photos with what I have I'll be happy.
 
Daryl said:
What kit do you have? How many lights? What sort of Bg do you want? Is it just head and shoulder shot?

What company was it Rich?
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Just the D5000 and kit lens, no additional flashes or lights. Background would be fine as plain white but I could always sort that out in PP. Yes just the head and shoulder shot like they do for school photos.

Not sure who took them, I will have a look when I get home.

swag72 said:
Just make sure he puts his red jumper on for the shot :shrug:
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chip said:
Too late.... he is leaving now, though the lesson could have been learnt from last year ;)
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Yep too late now and I didn't know he was having them taken or the missus didn't tell me if she knew, otherwise I'd of sent a note in saying to put the jumper on. You'd think it be obvious though especially to a pro tog, I'm assuming the school uses a pro! :thinking:
 
I did some of my graduation shots with my 400d and a 17-85, Sigma 530 flash. Take the shot in raw and you can play about with it. I found that i had to overexpose the photograph slightly as the camera RAW strait out was a little dark.

You can do this with out all the fancy lights but you must make sure you have sufficient lighting around, so go to the room with the brightest light and cleanest background.
 
Dylanlewis2000 said:
You can do this with out all the fancy lights but you must make sure you have sufficient lighting around, so go to the room with the brightest light and cleanest background.
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Trust me my flashguns are not fancy!

I paid £25 quid for my first jessops flash that tilts, zooms, and comes with 4 power settings.

My second cost me about £15 and tilt, zoomz, and swivels but has no power setting, it just Nukes at whatever level.

My third and fourth guns are a Yongnuo 460 and a Metz. I have note yet used the metz, although the yongnuo is great. They were £20 for the pair on here.

SO £60 of used flashguns does not make fancy lights!

And yes I have done Highkey stuff as well.
 
Daryl said:
Without all the fancy lights? whats fancy about studio lights????

Jeez, Go get some..... you're a photographer, Lights are part of the kit. Need more than just a camera sometimes.

Like being a fisherman, you have a Trawler but no nets????? Go figure.
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What you on? you do not HAVE to have lights as for the fisherman line well :shrug:
 
Pezza4u said:
otherwise I'd of sent a note in saying to put the jumper on. You'd think it be obvious though especially to a pro tog, I'm assuming the school uses a pro! :thinking:
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To be fair, the photographer may be shooting several hundred kids in a morning and, to a degree, has to rely on staff to ensure children are looking reasonably tidy regarding hair, jumpers, collars and ties.

I photograph a lot of school kids and check with the office/head/co-ordinator on arrival, what is the acceptable dress code. This can be pretty varied. If the school is ok with some kids with jumpers, and some without, then it is not up to the photographer to insist your son puts his jumper on.

Chris.
 
Well chaz me ol mucka. If you are doing a studio port or in this case a School port you need lighting. or flash heads of somesort.

so you're a tog that shoots in fair weather huh? Doing a wedding do you sit and wait for the clouds to part?? No way get the studio lights out of the van/car and set up in the venue and get going.

Nothing more unpro than not being prepared for every eventuality.


Even when I was shooting sports for papers I had studio lights/Flash guns. for other work. Unbelievable.
 
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Daryl said:
Well chaz me ol mucka. If you are doing a studio port or in this case a School port you need lighting. or flash heads of somesort.

so you're a tog that shoots in fair weather huh? Doing a wedding do you sit and wait for the clouds to part?? No way get the studio lights out of the van/car and set up in the venue and get going.

Nothing more unpro than not being prepared for every eventuality.


Even when I was shooting sports for papers I had studio lights/Flash guns. for other work. Unbelievable.
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Did not read any where to say the OP was a pro? he like photography as many on here do... You do not need lighting to enjoy photography as a hobby same as going fishing on the river do not need nets,,
 
lawrie29 said:
Trust me my flashguns are not fancy!

I paid £25 quid for my first jessops flash that tilts, zooms, and comes with 4 power settings.

My second cost me about £15 and tilt, zoomz, and swivels but has no power setting, it just Nukes at whatever level.

My third and fourth guns are a Yongnuo 460 and a Metz. I have note yet used the metz, although the yongnuo is great. They were £20 for the pair on here.

SO £60 of used flashguns does not make fancy lights!

And yes I have done Highkey stuff as well.
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Oh yeah, I don't even shoot with a "proper" camera, I use a Bridge that you can by used for about £100. So you could do my shots for less than £200 inc memory, tripods etc.
 
lawrie29 said:
Dead easy, I did my own here:

http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=267108
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Everyone should be able to get decent pictures of their own kids without the time limitations of the school photographer.

Apart from No2 they all look very stiff, with forced, unatural expressions to me. If you are confronted with a few hundred kids, in what can sometimes be a very noisy hall, school photography is not quite as easy as everyone seems to think.

I admit, there are times when I know the parents will not be delighted with the photo, but if I took 100 pictures of their child they would still look at me with a vacant expression!
 
chip said:
Everyone should be able to get decent pictures of their own kids without the time limitations of the school photographer.

Apart from No2 they all look very stiff, with forced, unatural expressions to me. If you are confronted with a few hundred kids, in what can sometimes be a very noisy hall, school photography is not quite as easy as everyone seems to think.

I admit, there are times when I know the parents will not be delighted with the photo, but if I took 100 pictures of their child they would still look at me with a vacant expression!
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WHich is what the missus said! thanks for the crit, appreciate it. Apart from the poses and the smiles technically no one has critiqued these or offered advise on them, so a reshoot is needed with SWMBO to supervise the kids and get better poses for me.

This thread is not about doing a school shoot, this is about someone who has asked how hard it would be to do his own for his kid, so we have said that it is not!

I would not try to do 100 kids with my kit, trust me they would start laughing at the background stand made up of two ikea lamps!
 
Daryl said:
Without all the fancy lights? whats fancy about studio lights????

Jeez, Go get some..... you're a photographer, Lights are part of the kit. Need more than just a camera sometimes.

Like being a fisherman, you have a Trawler but no nets????? Go figure.
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Why would I need nets for long line fishing? Go figure! :thinking:
 
I can post one taken without lights, if that would help anyone but it is kinda dark........
 
Daryl said:
The OP is talking about school photos. 9 out of 10 are with lights. and if you looked at Lawries examples you'd see it.

Plus I said Trawler!!!!!! Since whent do trawlers use single line????

No more!!!!!! :) I hate fishing.... Rather watch come Dine with me. and that's painful enough!
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Almost all commercial game fishing (Tuna, Swordfish, Marlin etc) is done by long line, and is called trawling.

You tried to make a smart comment to put someone down, and failed.

Studio lights may be an essential for you, but for most non pro's a couple of flashes will suffice amply.
 
To the op original question, yes you should be able to get a decent shot with your kit.
Use the lightest room you have, lowest aperture you can get at your chosen focal length, low ISO and a well behaved child should see you ok.
A conservatory on a bright but cloudy day would probably be best.

Good luck with it.
 
Oooo Mark was that a put down??? Dont give up the day job if that is your attitude.

Lights? Flashguns camera it's all part of the kit... Have no idea why you are being such a negative...


who gives a toss about fishing?

Lawrie bless him is talking about School photos. he did his own. And well done.

He showed a link to what he did ... He used flash... Looks good to me. It seems that some on here either dont have a scooby about shooting with lights or can not offord to do it... Why suddenly some have to say that you shoot in normal light... Whoopee!!

Did Lawrie ask for your advice? Don't recall........

this is a standard H/S shot. nothing fancy
file.php


This one is the most popular. 3 pose proofcard.


Any way end of......

Lawrie have you tried a 3 light set up?

2x keylight at 45 degrees. One at F8 and other at F11. with the bg you can put a third to light bg or use as a hair light.
file.php
 
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I agree lights make the subject a lot easier and will probably produce a much better result. If its not an option, the maybe a basic set up of big window, reflector and OOF bg?

PS surely normal light is whatever you have to hand - ie available light! I think the point is, if you are trying to recreate your standard school photo - they always use lights!

EDIT
PPS: Fishing sucks imho and makes you smell - well, fishy!
 
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I think something may have got mis-understood here? Am wanting to shoot a school style photo, pro gives advice and get slammed! :shrug:

Shouldn't we encourage pros to advise ams instead of argueing with them?

Yes, they may have a different perspective, and the OP may be looking at a cheaper way. But let's not dimiss the seasoned pro for advice.
 
david1701 said:
I love that the guy running a school photo company got shot down by rank amateurs for helping :p
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Rank amateurs? You mean complete or absolute amateurs? I'm sure that would apply to many with FRPS distinctions who've never had the desire to sell their work. I suppose the opposite is a rank professional, who only ever shoots for business and never for pleasure. :p
 
NigelPaul said:
I think something may have got mis-understood here? Am wanting to shoot a school style photo, pro gives advice and get slammed! :shrug:

Shouldn't we encourage pros to advise ams instead of argueing with them?

Yes, they may have a different perspective, and the OP may be looking at a cheaper way. But let's not dimiss the seasoned pro for advice.
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I think this was the comment that ruffled a few feathers:-

"Without all the fancy lights? whats fancy about studio lights????

Jeez, Go get some..... you're a photographer, Lights are part of the kit. Need more than just a camera sometimes.

Like being a fisherman, you have a Trawler but no nets????? Go figure."

It does come over as a bit condescending. :(

Daryl's later post showing some examples and describing a lighting set-up was far more constructive and helpful. :)

However, I would guess that the OP just wants an occasional picture of his lad without wishing to invest in studio lighting. When you've got the luxury of choosing the time without being under pressure the sun can also be a pretty effective light source, particularly if you match it with some of those handy giant diffusers that drift across UK skies from time to time. :D
 
david1701 said:
I love that the guy running a school photo company got shot down by rank amateurs for helping :p
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Point absolutely taken, and I'd never have a pop at someone for being helpful, especially someone working in the industry who is prepared to share their knowledge.

The point here however is that Daryl added the advice after having had a dig at a couple of people for not investing in full studio lights, which most people can't afford to invest in for just the odd shot or two.

I'm quite happy to help in my own field of IT if people need it, but I don't look down on them for not having commercial level kit or belittle them for that either.
 
Each to their own. I live and breathe photography. Never wanted to shoot schools. It was something that happened as a side line and over took all our other work.... I still do other work but this is a landslide compared to commercial and weddings. As people and firms cut back ever more...

This 'Photography lark is best thing ever. so if sometimes it comes over condesending I apolagise.

I read some stuff on here and it seems that people always take the hard road.

I have picked up some great ideas from folks on this site and it has saved me time and money.

Alls fare in love and war guys!

Mark? not a dig as such. When I could not afford lights I begged stole and barrowed. You can even rent kit. Nothing is impossible, everything doable.

Hoo Err!
 
I don't think Daryl was telling him to invest in studio lights, just to look at using an external light source. I thin kmy earlier post shows that you do not need to spend much to get some cheap flashguns to make these shots much easier.
 
Awesome thread :D

If you have a window and a white wall, job done. Daryl's right though, lights are not too hard to come by.

Try this.


Stand your kid about 4ft from a white wall and get them close to a window, make sure they are facing it / angled towards window. You could use a net curtain (do people still have them?) to diffuse the light. Stick your camera on AV / Aperture priority mode, and shoot. Experiment with position from white backdrop, from window, with different apertures etc. It should be possible to get a gray / close to white backdrop and decent catchlights from the window.

I can take an example in the studio if you like? I will not use any flash, and focus purely on taking advantage of my window and white wall :)

Gary.
PS - try black cloth / wall too, might look even better. If you have a really cruddy wall, try and shoot wide open (f1.4, 1.8, 2.8 etc) - it will blur that backdrop depending on positioning.
 
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EdinburghGary said:
Awesome thread :D

If you have a window and a white wall, job done. Daryl's right though, lights are not too hard to come by.

Try this.


Stand your kid about 4ft from a white wall and get them close to a window, make sure they are facing it / angled towards window. You could use a net curtain (do people still have them?) to diffuse the light. Stick your camera on AV / Aperture priority mode, and shoot. Experiment with position from white backdrop, from window, with different apertures etc. It should be possible to get a gray / close to white backdrop and decent catchlights from the window.

I can take an example in the studio if you like? I will not use any flash, and focus purely on taking advantage of my window and white wall :)

Gary.
PS - try black cloth / wall too, might look even better. If you have a really cruddy wall, try and shoot wide open (f1.4, 1.8, 2.8 etc) - it will blur that backdrop depending on positioning.
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Hey Gary, great advice and I'm sure such an example would be very helpful. :)
 
Wow what happened to this thread, have you put the handbags away now! :p I've had to read it twice to get the useful info but thanks to everyone who posted:)

lawrie29 said:
Dead easy, I did my own here:

http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=267108

Although I have some flashguns, you should be able to get some goos results with what you have and some imagination.
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Thanks for the link to what you did, I like the fleecy blanket idea so will see what I have. You got some good photos of your kids there IMO :thumbs:

Dylanlewis2000 said:
I did some of my graduation shots with my 400d and a 17-85, Sigma 530 flash. Take the shot in raw and you can play about with it. I found that i had to overexpose the photograph slightly as the camera RAW strait out was a little dark.

You can do this with out all the fancy lights but you must make sure you have sufficient lighting around, so go to the room with the brightest light and cleanest background.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the tip, our lounge has floor to ceiling, wall to wall windows so there is alot of light in the room when the sun is there in the morning.

chip said:
To be fair, the photographer may be shooting several hundred kids in a morning and, to a degree, has to rely on staff to ensure children are looking reasonably tidy regarding hair, jumpers, collars and ties.

I photograph a lot of school kids and check with the office/head/co-ordinator on arrival, what is the acceptable dress code. This can be pretty varied. If the school is ok with some kids with jumpers, and some without, then it is not up to the photographer to insist your son puts his jumper on.

Chris.
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Fair point but my son doesn't go to a mainstream school, there is less than 80 pupils where he is so shouldn't take long to do the photos. My understanding is the tog gets commission for every set of photos they sell, so surely they could tell the teachers to make sure they all have their jumpers on as they're shooting against a white background. It should be obvious IMO that the photo won't look right if the whites clash and they have lost my sale cos of it.

PaulF said:
To the op original question, yes you should be able to get a decent shot with your kit.
Use the lightest room you have, lowest aperture you can get at your chosen focal length, low ISO and a well behaved child should see you ok.
A conservatory on a bright but cloudy day would probably be best.

Good luck with it.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the tips Paul :)

EdinburghGary said:
Awesome thread :D

If you have a window and a white wall, job done. Daryl's right though, lights are not too hard to come by.

Try this.


Stand your kid about 4ft from a white wall and get them close to a window, make sure they are facing it / angled towards window. You could use a net curtain (do people still have them?) to diffuse the light. Stick your camera on AV / Aperture priority mode, and shoot. Experiment with position from white backdrop, from window, with different apertures etc. It should be possible to get a gray / close to white backdrop and decent catchlights from the window.

I can take an example in the studio if you like? I will not use any flash, and focus purely on taking advantage of my window and white wall :)

Gary.
PS - try black cloth / wall too, might look even better. If you have a really cruddy wall, try and shoot wide open (f1.4, 1.8, 2.8 etc) - it will blur that backdrop depending on positioning.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the post, very helpful. I have some lights I can place nearby to brighten the area. I also have a flood light which I thought of using. Obviously not pointing at my son but maybe towards the ceiling to add more light?

I've also been looking at some flashes, would an SB400 be ok to use or something like this on ebay which can be used off the camera, see link here?
 
Yes to the sdb400, I hink you can use it off camera, the Yn465 is certainly OK, just make sure you get one from a reputable seller. The one you have is China based

Have you checked the classifieds on here? there may be something useful to you.
 
Yes I've looked in the classifieds but they're all out of my price range, even the SB400 is pushing it ATM. I've seen one for sale for £65, only a few months old as well.

Don't worry if I go for the YN-465 I will be buying from the UK not China. I think I would need to get a cable for either flash if I use it off camera. What would be best for portrait photography anyway, on or off?
 
Off camera is usually better, if you used it on camera then you would normally bounce the flash of the ceiling to give a more even light.

I did these on camera, bounced at the ceiling:









Not perfect but it gives you an idea of what can be acheived.
 
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Daryl said:
This 'Photography lark is best thing ever. so if sometimes it comes over condesending I apolagise.

...

Mark? not a dig as such. When I could not afford lights I begged stole and barrowed. You can even rent kit. Nothing is impossible, everything doable.

Hoo Err!
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Totally understood, and apologies for biting. :D

On the beg borrow or steal front, I'm completely with you; aka improvise adapt and overcome!

Sorry for creating a slight derailment on an excellent thread btw!
 
you can rent some flashes or other camera equipment for 3 days up to a month (Or more)

Look online.
Theres no reason why you can't take amazing photos with any camera.
 
Just another thought.
I always take a couple of pics a year of my son in uniform and never buy the over inflated prices and usually a bit naff pics that the school does.

I always take a pic of my son outside [no needs for lights ha ha although i have them]

I position him in front of the same large bush just before he goes school on a nice morning and bobs your uncle.

Far better in my opionion than the old 80's white background.

Just a thought.
 
Those school photos remind me of ... school, and 70's and 80's and bad acrylic jumpers.
Personally I'd rather not have that type of photo at all, but the advice has been good here.
I enjoyed the handbags/fishing discussion immensely.

I am so glad I have the means and small knowledge to take photos of my boy these days...
 
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