Shooting and Explosions in Paris

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viv1969 said:
But that's just the point.
120-odd people were brutally killed.....an outrageous attack.
But should humour stop?
Should travel stop?
Should the sheep wear French flags / Eiffel towers and beat their chests in outrage and mock solidarité.

No. Because then these people are winning.
I don't know what the answer is. Carpet bombing Mecca would be

dumb and futile. Diplomacy quite possibly a waste of time......I don't know.
But I sure as s*** won't be changing the way I live my live because of the MINUTE threat of being a terrorist victim.....simply because that's exactly what they want.
FCUK THEM.



Why? If I'd got my passport stamped in Greece, they'd have known I'd passed through there.
I may be on a few people's sh1t lists, but I'm not on a terrorist watch list.
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I hear what you are saying Ruth and I agree with you

I am simply suggesting that a thread about the atrocities of a few days ago is neither the time not the place
 
But if/when at that stage the fingerprints are taken the person wasn't known then what miracle work do you expect the varies agencies to do? Best they can do is what they do now and trace the route.

Ps. @viv1969 how do you know you aren't on a watchlist ;) :p
 
Laudrup said:
The fingerprints in Greece matching the terrorist are pretty relevant.
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Is your suggestion that we turn our back on 4 million refugees just in case another one is a terrorist?
 
neil_g said:
except we already know that one of the attackers passed through the greek border.

that only works if they exist on a known list of bad people somewhere.
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Neil - as far as I'm aware Greece is part of the EU so they should be part of the closed European border. ( After all they nearly brought the Euro down!) you missed my point about suitable background checks being made. You cant admit people on just a cursory inspection
 
Overexposed said:
Neil - as far as I'm aware Greece is part of the EU so they should be part of the closed European border. ( After all they nearly brought the Euro down!) you missed my point about suitable background checks being made. You cant admit people on just a cursory inspection
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my point still stands though. unless they've done something wrong in the past then they'll pass those checks.
 
Phil V said:
Is your suggestion that we turn our back on 4 million refugees just in case another one is a terrorist?
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Again, how do you know who is a refugee? It was extremely foolish of Merkel to give an open invitation to all and sundry and leave our security services to keep track of everyone.
 
Phil V said:
Your solution?
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My solution is for Europe to close its borders and to verify any new entrants be they refugees or through normal immigration. With the spectre of what is going on, no one can be waved through on a cursory inspection.
 
Laudrup said:
The fingerprints in Greece matching the terrorist are pretty relevant.
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No, they're really not.
It's unimportant how each of the terrorists reached the end game.
When will people realise that you cannot stop these people from carrying out their attacks.
What is needed is to make sure that people don't want to carry them out in the first place.....to educate people.
 
Overexposed said:
My solution is for Europe to close its borders and to verify any new entrants be they refugees or through normal immigration. With the spectre of what is going on, no one can be waved through on a cursory inspection.
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It wouldn't stop them.
They would simply enter legitimately.
 
viv1969 said:
It wouldn't stop them.
They would simply enter legitimately.
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It would slow them down and give us more chance to track movements - this open door policy sucks particularly when we are playing with the lives of innocent people
 
Overexposed said:
It would slow them down and give us more chance to track movements - this open door policy sucks particularly when we are playing with the lives of innocent people
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How would it slow them down?
 
Correct and valid documentation , forged, stolen or otherwise has to be obtained and every time a mistake is made a little more information is available!
 
neil_g said:
my point still stands though. unless they've done something wrong in the past AND BEEN CAUGHT ETC. then they'll pass those checks.
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As for a solution, I have absolutely no idea, I'm afraid. I wish I did.
 
Laudrup said:
Not let in hundreds of thousands of people who we don't know anything about.
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At what level do you restrict people's movement to keep the local populace safe? Continent to continent, country to country, city to city or street to street.
 
viv1969 said:
No, they're really not.
It's unimportant how each of the terrorists reached the end game.
When will people realise that you cannot stop these people from carrying out their attacks.
What is needed is to make sure that people don't want to carry them out in the first place.....to educate people.
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The UK has already foiled 7 attacks this year, so you can stop them if you have the intelligence about their attack and who to watch. That task is made much, much harder for the security services if you have hundreds of thousands of people you know nothing about free to roam throughout Europe who came from a region that the terrorists control and who said they would use this route to smuggle people in. This ideology will always exist and have support no matter how much you educate people, but right now it needs territory taken back and the terrorists destroyed.
 
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viv1969 said:
The media don't find such killings in "brown" countries nearly so distasteful.
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"Closer to home" is more evocative and sells more papers....


Not that I'm cynical or anything
 
viv1969 said:
Seven months ago. Did you even read it?

How about the suicide bombers the day before Paris?
The media don't find such killings in "brown" countries nearly so distasteful.
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The Beirut bombings? This headline says it all. Some of our media were likening the Paris attacks to 9/11, but there was hardly anything on the BBC about Beirut.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/16/world/middleeast/beirut-lebanon-attacks-paris.html?_r=0

There is an incredibly ignorant statement by Jeb Bush in the above article.

A reminder of the muddled perceptions came last week, when Jeb Bush, the Republican presidential candidate, declared that “if you’re a Christian, increasingly in Lebanon, or Iraq or Syria, you’re gonna be beheaded.” That was news to Lebanon’s Christians, who hold significant political power.
 
@andy700 Yep, Beirut.
And though it was in January, not that many folk remember 2000 people killed by The Boko Haram attack in Nigeria as previously mentioned.
Just not sexy or white enough :(
 
Overexposed said:
My solution is for Europe to close its borders and to verify any new entrants be they refugees or through normal immigration. With the spectre of what is going on, no one can be waved through on a cursory inspection.
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as i said further up no country in history has ever managed impermeable borders - even if we were able to close our borders completely (which we can't without totally buggering up the economy and removing freedom of travel from british citizens) , how are you going to stop terrorists making landings on deserted beaches with speedboats/ribs or below the radar flights with light aircraft or helicopters.
 
Regarding all this talk of not letting refugees in because they may be terrorists. The way I see it:

1. It's exactly what IS want. They don't want people flooding out of the region and seeking a better life in Europe, becoming westernised and enjoying freedom and democracy.
2. Again, it's exactly what IS want. A backlash against muslims so it helps fuel their 'Muslims vs The West' ideology.
3. In Europe we have a long history of helping refugees. Stopping that means we have changed our fundamental values of trying to care for the less fortunate. Again, exactly what IS want.
4. Terrorists have in the past disguised themselves as tourists, business people, students...are we suggesting also banning those groups? No, because they are cash-cows and the dumb tabloid press isn't out to vilify them.
5. Almost all terrorists attack their home or close to it. They rarely travel thousands of miles to attack their target. Look at this lot in France: almost all of them lived in or close to Paris for many years. We should be looking much closer to home to spot the danger.

I also think it's worth adding that we need to put this into perspective. Since 9/11 there have been 58 terrorists related deaths in the UK, 56 of them in the London bombings of 2005. That's less than 4 per year. During the same period, approximately 28,000 people died on our roads and around 1,500,000 died directly due to smoking (at least double that if you count smoking related disease, such as heart attacks). That's the equivalent of the tobacco companies carrying out a Paris style attack twice a day! I don't see people in utter panic about cigarettes or talking about shutting out foreign cars because people die in them every day...but by the same logic being applied to refugees, they should. We should be shouting and protesting in the streets about the wars we have to fight against the twin evils of cars and fags that threaten our very survival.

But we don't. Instead, being British, we shrug and think, "Ah well, s**t happens, but you have to live your life and do the things you want to do." I think that's what we need to remember now.
 
viv1969 said:
But I sure as s*** won't be changing the way I live my live because of the MINUTE threat of being a terrorist victim.....simply because that's exactly what they want.
FCUK THEM.
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holy s*** we agree about something :LOL:
 
Keith W said:
There is a time and place for humor

I would suggest that this is not one of them
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and on this I suggest this is precisely the place for humour - as david fiddimore wrote about the second world war "how on earth did they ever think they were going to beat a people who thought war could be funny"

If we are laughing at them and taking the p*** then we arent afraid - and if we arent afraid then they are failing to terrorise us... as ruth said, f*** em
 
FujiLove said:
It's exactly what IS want. They don't want people flooding out of the region and seeking a better life in Europe, becoming westernised and enjoying freedom and democracy.
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Not sure I agree with that. `Becoming Westernised`? It seems the opposite is true in many areas & is increasing year on year.

Re immigrants/asylum seekers being possible terrorists, obviously they COULD be, but many of the attacks are actually committed by passport holders/natives of the country they are trying to destroy.
 
hell, it was bound to happen eventually ... don't worry we'll be back to vehment and irrational disagreement by bed time :runaway:
 
Send in 100,000 troops from Russia, US, UK and all European countries must send troops no backing out in support roles and systematically sweep South through Syria and the Allies sweep North through Iraq and terminate any supporters and IS activists.
No Courts
No Jury just execute the M***** F******!!!!!
Any tossers in this Country and the States and Europe like the arse heads on Face Book saying how wonderful the atrocities were last weekend should be detained in a box with no rights or exercise and fed on Porcine products.



They have no respect for their own people women or children let alone any one else...... so we should give them the same treatment.

As for migration you cant stop innocent folk the right to flee these idiots... Security has to be more vigilant and not be scared to confront suspected Terrorists.
 
viv1969 said:
Seven months ago. Did you even read it?

How about the suicide bombers the day before Paris?
The media don't find such killings in "brown" countries nearly so distasteful.
Click to expand...

Thats mainly because its close to home, and a threat to us. Suicide bombings are a daily occurrence in some countries, so not news. Much the same as our local and national press... they don't mention any drug dealers unless massive as its not news, but get caught shagging a sheep in a field and it makes the papers because it is different. Stuff that happens closer to home or could happen at home is much more newsworthy to people
 
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