Sigma DP Merrils Price Drop

Cant believe lack of interest in these...are they really that bad a camera?
 
StuartH said:
Cant believe lack of interest in these...are they really that bad a camera?
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Thing is the files may look amazing when pixel peeped at 100% or even 200% - but for average web display or even small prints, would anyone notice the difference? If you make large prints then it might make more sense - but then again I have seen large prints from 'old' 12mp cameras that still look great.

These cameras sound interesting, particularly for architectural or landscape use at base ISO - but they come with a lot of limitations - no viewfinder, terrible battery life, noisy at anything above ISO 400, longer workflow etc. I think one review summed it up well - "not a very good camera but a very good image making device". (But only for certain types of images).

They sound like they would also be a good camera to stick on a tripod and use for long exposure night photography of cityscapes etc - but the shutter speed range is 1/2000 to 30 seconds and no bulb mode (I guess the sensor gets too hot and/or creates too much noise even at base ISO??).

But if you want the image resolution and you do a lot of landscape or architectural stuff on a tripod then I can see the appeal at £300 - could be a good option for hillwalking for example due to the fairly low weight and size - much easier than carrying a D800 in your backpack. :)
 
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Totally see your point but have seen some images that even when viewed at web size are very impressive and stand out..it certainly has its down sides but for just over 300 has to be a bargain..I do admit I would never have entertained it at 7-800
 
Yes, some of the web size photos do look impressive: http://www.getdpi.com/forum/other-cameras/39705-sigma-dp2-merrill-shots.html I do like the look of the black and white conversions too - although some of the ones I have seen were done with Silver Efex Pro which is what I usually use anyway - so not sure how much of the look is due to that (or other processing) and how much to the Sigma? And some of the black and white photos by Shaheed in the RX100 thread looked even better and from memory I think he just uses Lightroom (obviously he is much better at using LR for B&W than I am as I cannot get mine from my RX100 to look that good!)
 
Yep the rx100 is a cracking camera no doubt and up until I saw the price drop on the sigmas I was intent on getting another or a ricoh but delving deeper into the sigma I really think its a bargain for the price even considering its quirks!
 
applemint said:
Thing is the files may look amazing when pixel peeped at 100% or even 200% - but for average web display or even small prints, would anyone notice the difference? If you make large prints then it might make more sense - but then again I have seen large prints from 'old' 12mp cameras that still look great.

These cameras sound interesting, particularly for architectural or landscape use at base ISO - but they come with a lot of limitations - no viewfinder, terrible battery life, noisy at anything above ISO 400, longer workflow etc. I think one review summed it up well - "not a very good camera but a very good image making device". (But only for certain types of images).

They sound like they would also be a good camera to stick on a tripod and use for long exposure night photography of cityscapes etc - but the shutter speed range is 1/2000 to 30 seconds and no bulb mode (I guess the sensor gets too hot and/or creates too much noise even at base ISO??).

But if you want the image resolution and you do a lot of landscape or architectural stuff on a tripod then I can see the appeal at £300 - could be a good option for hillwalking for example due to the fairly low weight and size - much easier than carrying a D800 in your backpack. :)
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I think you make a great point, the images can look fabulous at 100%, but if you're not making use of them by printing large, how big an advantage is it?

I spent yesterday downloading lots of Merrill raw files, and analysing them. Some did not look so amazing, others looked nice in some areas (detail) but were lacking in others (ugly shadows), while others were simply stunning in all aspects. Not scientific, but i chose some of my photos of similar subjects in similar lighting, zoomed both into 100% and compared, The good foveon shots were incredible compared to the bayer, the pixel level detail, definition and sharpness were incredible. To think you could get that level of detail in a camera costing a little over £300 is astounding.

But then i got to thinking, what benefit would *I* get from them, I don't print large, the print sizes i make are plenty good enough using the current equipment i have, and at normal web sizes, even a quite junky picture can look good. That said the idea of capturing all that detail and having it available if needed is a nice safety net, in case i did happen to take a shot that i wanted to enlarge, also, i assume it would make better quality crops if needed.

I'm still torn, the question i can't really answer is if I would actually use it, I have a micro four thirds camera and a good range of nice little primes, which covers the focal lengths of all the DPM's, and i really like the tilt and touch screen, would the benefit of increased image quality (in a very limited set of situations) overweigh the convenience/versatility of a tilt/touch screen a pocketful of tiny primes?

I think it you want or need the best image quality, the DPM's are without a doubt a fantastic buy.
 
Good post Julie with some very valid points indeed..I am pretty much cameraless at the mo aside from my little fuji xf1 which will get passed on to the other half once I decide what to get.I have no desires to get another dslr at this moment in time and a fixed lens camera really appeals to me as it will stop me spending out on lenses I cant really afford lol..so for obvious reasons I want something with fantastic image quality.I had set my heart on the ricoh or another rx100 or maybe mark 2 but having looked into the merrills I have been very impressed.They are certainly not a camera for everyone granted but *I* personally could live with its quirkiness(I hope lol) BUT and its a big but its only £339 which is a big plus in its favour and it gets me brownie points for not going over £500 :D As I said if it was still £800 then I wouldnt have even contemplated getting one but at new price its so tempting.
 
I've had a DP2M for a while now, along with some high-end full frame 35mm stuff and a few other top-end compacts. The Sigma blows the others away in terms of detail and resolution. On a recent trip where I took a couple of cameras including the DP2M, all but about 2 of the photos I ended up printing were from the DP2M. The Sigma software has some unique features that are not available in other raw converters, so although it's slow and clunky, it can produce amazing results.
 
StuartH said:
Simon may I ask what your work flow is with the raw files?
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I open them in the Sigma software, make a few minor tweaks including the "Fill Light" slider which gives a subtle HDR effect, remove all sharpening as it's not required, and save as a 16-bit TIFF. I then open that in Elements and just tweak the levels slightly and sharpen very slightly. That's about it. I've got some of mine on that getdpi link as it happens...
 
Thanks for that Simon..its pretty much what I was doing with them.I'm amazed at how little work is needed on the files and as you say next to no sharpening!
 
Yes, for me it's just down to getting the colours and contrast right in Sigma Photo Pro and it really doesn't need a lot else. The Fill Light tool is very useful and only available in SPP.
 
magicolor1 said:
I open them in the Sigma software, make a few minor tweaks including the "Fill Light" slider which gives a subtle HDR effect, remove all sharpening as it's not required, and save as a 16-bit TIFF. .
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Do you mean you set the slider to a negative value like -1 or -2 or leave it at zero? At zero it looks to me like there is some raw pre-sharpening already applied by the Sigma software.
 
Stuart - off topic - but was just wondering how the Fuji XF1 compares to the RX100 you had? At a third of the price it's certainly a lot cheaper! I think my RX100 is great but not sure if it's getting enough use to justify keeping it.
 
applemint said:
Do you mean you set the slider to a negative value like -1 or -2 or leave it at zero? At zero it looks to me like there is some raw pre-sharpening already applied by the Sigma software.
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Yes, I push the sharpness slider all the way to the left. The zero point doesn't mean zero sharpening. The files don't really need much in the way of sharpening, and what they do need I prefer to let Photoshop handle.
 
applemint said:
Stuart - off topic - but was just wondering how the Fuji XF1 compares to the RX100 you had? At a third of the price it's certainly a lot cheaper! I think my RX100 is great but not sure if it's getting enough use to justify keeping it.
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Its a good camera but images were just that bit nicer from the sony..I wont use the xf1 above 800 unless my life depended on it whereas with the sony you could.From a handling point of view the xf1 is very nice probably more comfortable due to being slightly bigger.Af is pretty snappy and it does produce some lovely photos.Like the rx100 the speed drops off very quick as you zoom in so f1.8 only usable at the widest end but handy to have.I would say macro is better on the xf1.The exr modes are fun and some are genuinly usefull as well.For the money its a steal!
 
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Been looking out for a S/H DP2M for this sort of money for ages, so this is obviously a no brainer.

I use an original DP1 when I feel like destroying my soul, these can't be any worse in terms of usability. :p
 
and that's my birthday pressie sorted, well I best call it that else the missus will go nuts although I will struggle to wait til mid march to open it :p

I like quirky and since moving from DSLRs to Fuji Xpro1 and X20 I have started approaching shots differently, and enjoying it so I reckon this could be right up my street.
 
The Merrill's are much better than the original for usability! The LCD is streets ahead and it just feels much nicer to use. Plus the results are way better too of course.
 
Well I'm convinced..also like the quirkiness of it so going to pick one up next week..anyone recommend a nice snug case for it and is the hood worth getting?
 
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Apparently its the same fit battery as used in ricoh gr and lots of third party ones on amazon for that camera..
 
I bought a (pretend?)-leather two-part case from ebay (China I think!) which fits well. And yes the batteries are the same size and shape as several Ricoh and Panasonic batteries, but I've never been sure if that makes them the "right" batteries. I guess there's only one way to find out...
 
Yeah I did post up that they had no stock but are expecting more this week and next. I think park cameras have them.
 
Yes, Park have them for £10 more: http://www.parkcameras.com/b/45/Sigma.html

I see according to this video the flash sync speed is very high (up to 1/2000s - varies depending on aperture), see around 5:20 in video.


There is also a Sigma close up filter (AML-1, AML-2) for the DP1 and DP2 for around 60 quid. Could make for some interesting possibilities. https://www.flickr.com/search/?q=AML-1&s=int https://www.flickr.com/search/?q=AML-2&s=int (The DP 3 I think already has a 'macro' (as in close up not proper macro) feature). A Raynox or similar could also be interesting.
 
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On the battery question, I just tried a Ricoh and a Panasonic and neither fits. They're nearly identical to the Sigmas but have slightly different notches that key to parts in the camera slot to ensure they don't fit!
 
Thanks for that Simon...Going to see how I go with the 2 supplied as its hardly a spray and pray camera lol
 
Stuart I decided to also go for one to compliment my ricoh gr :) well it is my birthday Monday so that is my excuse. Gone for the DP2 and lens hood from Park Cameras.
 
Nice one..mines coming from Park also..everywhere else was sold out although srs had some dp2 in stock.I did contemplate one and getting the sigma close up adaptor but had my heart set on a dp3. Sadly not my birthday just an increase on my credit card limit lol
 
Stuart my credit card bill also was justification to my wife :) . Have you got a confirmation
Delivery date yet from park cameras.
 
Yes mate deffo on Tuesday as they are doing free next day delivery on all camera orders at the mo.Placed order over the phone today with James.
 
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