Sky Arts ~ Masters of Photography

Phil V said:
SPOILER ALERT!




Watched the 3rd one, didn't agree with lots of the judging, (especially the suggestion the young girl could have exposed differently to significantly alter the contrast between the lit and shadow areas of background) though we did agree the winner.

The winner looked like a classic Bailey - really cracking shot.
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I was a bit perplexed by this as they didn't make clear what they wanted to achieve by exposing differently. I need to watch it again to remember exactly what she said but wasn't it something like to get a better balance? If she'd have exposed for the bright areas then the whole scene would've looked underexposed imo.

Could anyone explain what the lady was referring to and how exposing differently would've improved it please?

On a separate note, the best photo won imo but I think the young girl could've done if she'd have chosen one of her other images, she chose one of her weakest ones for me.
 
snerkler said:
Could anyone explain what the lady was referring to and how exposing differently would've improved it please?
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She reminded me of Kodiak and his 'mid tone' comments on the forum ;)
Did the lady mean upping the ISO and closing the aperture to bring out more depth? I don't know.
 
snerkler said:
On a separate note, the best photo won imo but I think the young girl could've done if she'd have chosen one of her other images, she chose one of her weakest ones for me.
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Both full frames of Owen reflected in the mirror, one engaged with the camera and one not, if presented, would have been the best shots of the day IMO.
 
nickEnackEnoo said:
She reminded me of Kodiak and his 'mid tone' comments on the forum ;)
Did the lady mean upping the ISO and closing the aperture to bring out more depth? I don't know.
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I don't think she wanted more depth but she did mention the midtones, but if she'd have exposed for the bright light surely this would have reduced the midtones? I need to watch that bit again to see if I can work out what she was after.

I can't believe that girl turned round and said she didn't understand the technical side of it though, I was staggered by that tbh.
 
Interesting process, I think some thought too much into it? Winning shot was good, the sort you see on sunday magazines.
 
DemiLion said:
Both full frames of Owen reflected in the mirror, one engaged with the camera and one not, if presented, would have been the best shots of the day IMO.
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I personally don't understand why the one presented as the final shot had cropped out the reflection, seems like a pointless exercise him being infront of the mirror in the first place?
 
snerkler said:
...

Could anyone explain what the lady was referring to and how exposing differently would've improved it please?
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I was perplexed by that statement, it's exposed 'correctly' for his face, If she'd have underexposed to darken the BG shadow, the face would have been under too, There wasn't significant enough levels between the highlight / shadow in the room to do what the judge was suggesting.

To create that would require adding more light to mimic that window light. However - as suggested - with enough time it could have easily been done in post. It's have been a different picture altogether

The poor young girl didn't have the experience to argue her corner - but the judge was technically incorrect.

edit for completeness... Technically, she should have moved him slightly to his right - which she did for some shots, but then chose the shot for expression over lighting - she ought to have noticed the shadow crossing his face sooner - or even knew where to stand him in relation to the light in the first place
 
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Phil V said:
I was perplexed by that statement, it's exposed 'correctly' for his face, If she'd have underexposed to darken the BG shadow, the face would have been under too, There wasn't significant enough levels between the highlight / shadow in the room to do what the judge was suggesting.

To create that would require adding more light to mimic that window light. However - as suggested - with enough time it could have easily been done in post. It's have been a different picture altogether

The poor young girl didn't have the experience to argue her corner - but the judge was technically incorrect.

edit for completeness... Technically, she should have moved him slightly to his right - which she did for some shots, but then chose the shot for expression over lighting - she ought to have noticed the shadow crossing his face sooner - or even knew where to stand him in relation to the light in the first place
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How I understood it. As far as I could tell the girl pushed in post the light. If you look at the original image RAW you can just make out a lighter background where a small amount of light hits the wall - I think she pushed just this area in Lightroom to get an effect. I don't think there was enough light on the wall at the time of taking the image to make a big difference if you where to expose for that light. In short she tried to make something out of very little [ light wise ]. I think Im correct on this.
 
Shaun Leatham said:
How I understood it. As far as I could tell the girl pushed in post the light. If you look at the original image RAW you can just make out a lighter background where a small amount of light hits the wall - I think she pushed just this area in Lightroom to get an effect. I don't think there was enough light on the wall at the time of taking the image to make a big difference if you where to expose for that light. In short she tried to make something out of very little [ light wise ]. I think Im correct on this.
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I thought the pool of light on the wall was obvious to the naked eye during the shoot and was exactly what she was taking advantage of.

It was there at every stage, and the judge asked how it could have been taken more advantage of. The fact is it wasn't dramatic enough and no amount of exposure change can alter the EV ratio in the scene.
 
Yes I agree Phil V - isn't that what I said - sorry if I didn't put my point across correctly :) she did push the light in post and I still don't think at the time exposing for the light falling on the wall would have made a dramatic effect so the only way to get the effect she got was to push the light in post. do you agree.
 
Shaun Leatham said:
Yes I agree Phil V - isn't that what I said - sorry if I didn't put my point across correctly :) she did push the light in post and I still don't think at the time exposing for the light falling on the wall would have made a dramatic effect so the only way to get the effect she got was to push the light in post. do you agree.
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I think we agree.

Afaic the 'lit' part of the image is well exposed, the only way to increase the drama would be to darken the shadows, but it'd have required a new layer with just the shadow BG to do it anything like well. Though I'd like to see the original file again to check

Whichever way up, the judge was wrong IMHO ;)
 
I think the judge was assuming the triangular light pattern was very bright where in reality it looked like a cloudy day outside with a small difference between that and the white of the wall.
 
Phil V said:
Watched the 3rd one, didn't agree with lots of the judging, (especially the suggestion the young girl could have exposed differently to significantly alter the contrast between the lit and shadow areas of background) though we did agree the winner.

The winner looked like a classic Bailey - really cracking shot.
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Just watched the 3rd last night ... I think part of the criticism of the light and shadow image was to "humiliate" (not sure if thats quite the right term) her for not having much technical knowledge about adjusting exposure in camera.

The winner was great ... I loved the comment (paraphrased from memory) about it "the kind of image that looks like anyone could have taken it ... but only a few people can".

One question I have about the whole process of that challenge - for a professional commissioned to take a portrait for (in that imaginary case) a magazine article. Would allowing only 20 minutes be a usual case; or would an hour, half a day, etc. be more realistic. I'm wondering if it was set up as a "real" situation, or was it slightly artificial in a generation game kind of way?
 
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I would think for many famous / important subjects there are very small windows of time they are available. I wish I could remember the video, but it was a famous photographer setting up a shot for a magazine cover. He was planning the shot for a long time (I seem to think days here), then getting it setup before the subjects arrived, then the subjects (two senior airline members) turn up, "quick shoot", all done.

Also I am glad about the photographer who left. My concept it to annoy the subject?!!?
 
J Veitch said:
Also I am glad about the photographer who left. My concept it to annoy the subject?!!?
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It appears to me that they (the judges) in most cases favour a good / imaginative idea they consider poorly executed over a bad idea.
 
Eloise said:
One question I have about the whole process of that challenge - for a professional commissioned to take a portrait for (in that imaginary case) a magazine article. Would allowing only 20 minutes be a usual case; or would an hour, half a day, etc. be more realistic. I'm wondering if it was set up as a "real" situation, or was it slightly artificial in a generation game kind of way?
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Never having done it, but I've read a few books.
Yes, 20mins is about right, sometimes nearer 10. Usually tagged onto the end of an hour interview so the subject might be a bit tetchy too.
 
Eloise said:
One question I have about the whole process of that challenge - for a professional commissioned to take a portrait for (in that imaginary case) a magazine article. Would allowing only 20 minutes be a usual case; or would an hour, half a day, etc. be more realistic. I'm wondering if it was set up as a "real" situation, or was it slightly artificial in a generation game kind of way?
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Sometimes less I would imagine. If you read or look at any of Jane Bown's beautiful work she often had 10 minutes at the end of an interview to get a portrait with her OM1.
 
I think Souvid talked a good talk and this helped with his average images this week.
The correct one was eliminated though.
 
I am underwhelmed with lots of the images. However they appear to be quite limited in terms of equipment and time for PP. I really don't like the older English lady, I find her to be somewhat arrogant. I think Max will win.
 
I couldn't even tell you their names. The impression they have made on me is no more than that of a passing gentlemen in the street.

The first series had a far better set of contestants in terms of likability. Yes aspects were beyond pretentious but I could live with that.
 
I think the contestants are pretty much on a lose-lose. This time around the guest judge says "no, those are not good, there is nothing there, too abstract" and then the other judges are like "we really appreciate this work etc"

They are pretty much damned if they do and damned if they don't - what the "judges" like one minute, they hate the next and vice versa. Presumably this is designed to create tension and atmosphere during the judging (it's a scripted TV show after all), but it comes across as ridiculously contrived.

Will stick with the show as I enjoy watching the process they go through and how they develop and create their responses to the badly briefed themes, but the judging is tiresome now.
 
ashtennisguru said:
I think the contestants are pretty much on a lose-lose. This time around the guest judge says "no, those are not good, there is nothing there, too abstract" and then the other judges are like "we really appreciate this work etc"

They are pretty much damned if they do and damned if they don't - what the "judges" like one minute, they hate the next and vice versa. Presumably this is designed to create tension and atmosphere during the judging (it's a scripted TV show after all), but it comes across as ridiculously contrived.

Will stick with the show as I enjoy watching the process they go through and how they develop and create their responses to the badly briefed themes, but the judging is tiresome now.
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At club level we are subject to the critique of just one judge, and the judge will often say "this is purely my opinion and someone else may have a different opinion."

Here we have three "judges" who are all likely to have different opinions, so what chance is there of a consensus? especially as their brief seems to be "be controversial."

I too will continue to watch, since I find the challenges and the contestants approaches to be interesting, and I have picked up a few tips and ideas along the way.

After all, we don't HAVE to agree with the judges do we? (and it seems that many of us don't.)
 
Again tonight (29 June edition) several did not follow the brief.
I thought for them to praise Olympe showed the dearth of good images overall.
 
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Loved the way one judge criticised the blown highlights and then got shot down by the guest saying that if you exposed for the wall you would not see the face. Shame molly went out. Thought she was better than the one who stayed in. An action shot on that straight road would have been awesome.
 
cambsno said:
Loved the way one judge criticised the blown highlights and then got shot down by the guest saying that if you exposed for the wall you would not see the face. Shame molly went out. Thought she was better than the one who stayed in. An action shot on that straight road would have been awesome.
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wasn't that last weeks
 
I really feel that the judges are all over the place on this, no wonder the contestants look so deflated each week. I am sticking with it, but I'm sure there must be scope for a better photographic show than this.
 
rick448 said:
I really feel that the judges are all over the place on this, no wonder the contestants look so deflated each week. I am sticking with it
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I think last year's was better in this regard.

rick448 said:
but I'm sure there must be scope for a better photographic show than this.
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There was one on YouTube last year which was quite good called Top Photographer

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLwm6LvGc5xq03yAgEBG2dMJU-frI9x5NC

Don't know if there'll be a 2nd season though.
 
Just caught up the last 3 weeks.

The judging does seem to be all over the place, but the outcomes seem OK (they've usually sent the weakest or close to weakest home).

The 'talent' isn't up to last years standard though, I find this weird because whilst it's predictable on shows like X factor (constant overfishing a small talent pool) surely finding 12 talented photographers from Europe ought to be easy.

There's easily more than 12 people on this forum who have more talent than most of this years competitors.
 
Phil V said:
Just caught up the last 3 weeks.

The judging does seem to be all over the place, but the outcomes seem OK (they've usually sent the weakest or close to weakest home).

The 'talent' isn't up to last years standard though, I find this weird because whilst it's predictable on shows like X factor (constant overfishing a small talent pool) surely finding 12 talented photographers from Europe ought to be easy.

There's easily more than 12 people on this forum who have more talent than most of this years competitors.
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Hopefully the contestants have been chosen because of their ability or potential with a camera rather than on their looks or the medication they're taking. Dunno as I've never seen it.
 
I've stopped paying attention to most of the program now and have instead started to look at it's production.
Notably in this week was the rolling shutter in many of the scenes. Global shutter 4k cameras are available, invest!!! It's a TV production for crying out loud, why would the producer even for a moment think that is acceptable? Even if they program is recorded on the fly in 1080p there are options. The blackmagic cinema camera series in 2.5k with canon EF fitment isn't expensive and would yield wonderful results without breaking the bank.

Back to that actual show, the only way to please the judges is to take images when your heart isn't in it it would seem as those who come up top generally aren't happy with their shots, admit there is room for improvement and couldn't connect. With that in mind I'm going to go out and take photos of random people in the street as I can't stand it but atleast I may have something interesting if the experience and wisdom of the judges is anything to go by.
 
At least the lady isn't appearing from behind the frosted glass at the image review stage in this series! She was so annoying and I'm glad she's lost her role in this series! Recently caught up in it and I think it's been as good as last years. Although the 'English Lady' is a bit annoying as least she has had the balls to go with images she likes rather the the ones the expert likes - she's done ok so far using that method. £150k is a whopper of a first prize by the way for this comp.
 
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