So who is getting the new Gitzo Gimbal Fluid Head?....

[RedRobin]

Well, thanks to you lot I've taken the plunge and it arrived earlier in the week, definitely feels a lot 'tighter' than the Wimberley, so going to keep it and sell off the WH-200. Just got to find a hex tool to remove the screw that stops the plate coming off so I can fit it in the bag!

Thanks for the info on the setup Robin, some good ideas there, you've reminded me we still have a spare frying pan here ready to make my own groundpod!

....I now have a NatureScape Skimmer 'groundpod' but it doesn't fit on a tripod as my Platypod can be enabled to do. Horses-for-Courses as usual.

I notice that some photographers, such as yourself, use their gimbal on the righthand side of the camera and don't understand why because by controlling the gimbal with your left hand you can then control your camera's controls with your right hand as normal.

 

[Gaz J]

....I now have a NatureScape Skimmer 'groundpod' but it doesn't fit on a tripod as my Platypod can be enabled to do. Horses-for-Courses as usual.

I notice that some photographers, such as yourself, use their gimbal on the righthand side of the camera and don't understand why because by controlling the gimbal with your left hand you can then control your camera's controls with your right hand as normal.

I use the gimbal on the right hand side Robin because it allows me easier access to the controls on the lens. Also I either hook my fingers into the lens hood or rest it on top of the lens to swing the lens on the gimbal so find it easier with it on the right.

 

[RedRobin]

I use the gimbal on the right hand side Robin because it allows me easier access to the controls on the lens. Also I either hook my fingers into the lens hood or rest it on top of the lens to swing the lens on the gimbal so find it easier with it on the right.

....Hence proving that there is no right or wrong way and that we each have individual preferences which suit us best.

 

[sk66]

I notice that some photographers, such as yourself, use their gimbal on the righthand side of the camera and don't understand why because by controlling the gimbal with your left hand you can then control your camera's controls with your right hand as normal.

I don't control the gimbal, I control the camera/lens. That's why I have no use for the panning arm... I see no benefit as long as you are hands-on the camera.

 

[Unlocker]

....I now have a NatureScape Skimmer 'groundpod' but it doesn't fit on a tripod as my Platypod can be enabled to do. Horses-for-Courses as usual.

I notice that some photographers, such as yourself, use their gimbal on the righthand side of the camera and don't understand why because by controlling the gimbal with your left hand you can then control your camera's controls with your right hand as normal.

As with Gaz, the lens controls are on the left, putting the gimbal on the left would obstruct that, also I'm used to using my left hand to either control the lens or manual focus, no need to control the gimbal whilst shooting.

I don't control the gimbal, I control the camera/lens. That's why I have no use for the panning arm... I see no benefit as long as you are hands-on the camera.

Also the panning arm restricts how much you can tilt, so it stays off here too.

 

[RedRobin]

I don't control the gimbal, I control the camera/lens. That's why I have no use for the panning arm... I see no benefit as long as you are hands-on the camera.

....So you never lock down the gimbal?

The panning arm helps leverage when using a levelling base. Also assists smooth panning.

As with Gaz, the lens controls are on the left, putting the gimbal on the left would obstruct that, also I'm used to using my left hand to either control the lens or manual focus, no need to control the gimbal whilst shooting.

Also the panning arm restricts how much you can tilt, so it stays off here too.

....I find that resting part of my left hand on the top of the gimbal assists manual focus override.

I'm only shooting with a 500mm prime Canon L when on the gimbal and don't need to move lens switches while shooting, although I can easily do so when not in the viewfinder.

By fitting the panning arm short and flat horizontal kicking outwards, it has yet to restrict my tilt.

It's just different ways of achieving what we each feel comfortable with. If I experience problems I'll change.

 

[robinsslee]

The question will be how often you need to fiddle with your lens setting...? Once in a while? Every 2 mins? Every hour? Well, back when I still have my Jobu gimbal (best value for money) I normally leave the lens settings as it is and the only thing I change is the AF focus distance from time to time. I prefer the gimbal control on the left so I could tighten and loosen with my left hand whilst still be looking at the viewfinder and operating the camera with my right hand. I have now sold the gimbal and use either RRS BH-55 ballhead or Uniqball 45. Of course, this is down to individual preferences.

 

[sk66]

...So you never lock down the gimbal?

The panning arm helps leverage when using a levelling base. Also assists smooth panning.

Of course I lock it down when moving, otherwise, no. I don't normally mess with the gimbal adjustments (there aren't any really) or the lens settings. I do use the focus buttons on the lens, but it's towards the front... it doesn't really matter to me which side the gimbal arm is on other than I'm right handed and it's easier for me to have my right hand on the camera when clamping/unclamping it into the gimbal.
With my camera/lens the arm no longer than the camera and right next to/against it, so there is no extra leverage/control.

 

[Gaz J]

The question will be how often you need to fiddle with your lens setting...? Once in a while? Every 2 mins? Every hour? Well, back when I still have my Jobu gimbal (best value for money) I normally leave the lens settings as it is and the only thing I change is the AF focus distance from time to time. I prefer the gimbal control on the left so I could tighten and loosen with my left hand whilst still be looking at the viewfinder and operating the camera with my right hand. I have now sold the gimbal and use either RRS BH-55 ballhead or Uniqball 45. Of course, this is down to individual preferences.

I regularly switch the IS on and off, change IS mode depending on what I'm shooting and change to a portrait format. Since buying the Gitzo I leave both adjustment knobs at one setting as I find that the fluid damping in the head is so smooth that I don't need to fiddle with them anymore. Similarly I don't lock it down in use because it takes a conscious effort to move the lens/camera unlike with my previous head that, if I adjusted it for smooth panning and tilt, the camera never seemed to be stable when using it on a static subject.

 

[robinsslee]

I regularly switch the IS on and off, change IS mode depending on what I'm shooting and change to a portrait format. Since buying the Gitzo I leave both adjustment knobs at one setting as I find that the fluid damping in the head is so smooth that I don't need to fiddle with them anymore. Similarly I don't lock it down in use because it takes a conscious effort to move the lens/camera unlike with my previous head that, if I adjusted it for smooth panning and tilt, the camera never seemed to be stable when using it on a static subject.

I see...

 

[RedRobin]

I regularly switch the IS on and off, change IS mode depending on what I'm shooting

....If you are shooting on a Canon L version II lens, IS Mode-3 switches off IS until the actual instant of shutter release. This has the advantage of less activity happening and hence faster tracking etc < We are talking micro seconds of course but it all helps.

As you have already noticed, the Gitzo Fluid Gimbal dampens movement and this gives you the effect of image stabilisation when in the viewfinder.

 

[RedRobin]

Well, back when I still have my Jobu gimbal (best value for money). I have now sold the gimbal and use either RRS BH-55 ballhead or Uniqball 45. Of course, this is down to individual preferences.

....I still have and use my Canadian Jobu Jr-3 Deluxe gimbal. It's mounted on a Skimmer and used to shoot from my windows at home nowadays. I think it's still the smallest gimbal available and I even tried it on a monopod.

RRS products have superb design and build quality < America's best.

 

[Unlocker]

I notice that some photographers, such as yourself, use their gimbal on the righthand side of the camera and don't understand why because by controlling the gimbal with your left hand you can then control your camera's controls with your right hand as normal.

Thinking more about it, it’s just natural. When we handhold, it’s always camera in the right hand, lens in the left, so to put something in the way just don’t feel right!

 

[robinsslee]

....I still have and use my Canadian Jobu Jr-3 Deluxe gimbal. It's mounted on a Skimmer and used to shoot from my windows at home nowadays. I think it's still the smallest gimbal available and I even tried it on a monopod.

RRS products have superb design and build quality < America's best.

Yes and the price is fantastic too

Thinking more about it, it’s just natural. When we handhold, it’s always camera in the right hand, lens in the left, so to put something in the way just don’t feel right!

It's natural for me to control the gimbal using my left hand

 

[RedRobin]

I have done a couple of wildlife photography trips abroad this year (and have another one very soon) and I don't take my Gitzo Fluid Gimbal Head with me as it's too bulky and adds weight to my airline baggage. Instead, I travel with my Jobu Jr-3 Deluxe gimbal with two one-inch spacers if extra height is needed so it can screw either onto a post in a hide or fit on my Skimmer base. I also only travel with my Gitzo GT2545T tripod which has the FlexShooter head living on it.

The Gitzo Fluid Gimbal Head is now mostly mounted on a Gitzo Series 3 Systematic tripod which is a very nice solid platform when in my chair hide at home.

As new products become available it's easy to upgrade your system and end up with more than you need. However, I always give it time to see which gear I have a regular use for and its advantages before considering selling it on. As usual it's Horses-for-Courses and I am very glad a have kept all three of my very different tripod heads.

 

[jonneymendoza]

I have done a couple of wildlife photography trips abroad this year (and have another one very soon) and I don't take my Gitzo Fluid Gimbal Head with me as it's too bulky and adds weight to my airline baggage. Instead, I travel with my Jobu Jr-3 Deluxe gimbal with two one-inch spacers if extra height is needed so it can screw either onto a post in a hide or fit on my Skimmer base. I also only travel with my Gitzo GT2545T tripod which has the FlexShooter head living on it.

The Gitzo Fluid Gimbal Head is now mostly mounted on a Gitzo Series 3 Systematic tripod which is a very nice solid platform when in my chair hide at home.

As new products become available it's easy to upgrade your system and end up with more than you need. However, I always give it time to see which gear I have a regular use for and its advantages before considering selling it on. As usual it's Horses-for-Courses and I am very glad a have kept all three of my very different tripod heads.

Do you shoot with a 600mm prime?

 

[RedRobin]

Do you shoot with a 600mm prime?

.... No, my longest and heaviest lens is the Canon EF 500mm F/4L II which I often shoot with a 2x Extender mounted. All my tripod heads take the weight without groaning but two friends of mine shoot with a Canon EF 600mm on the Gitzo Fluid Gimbal Head without issue. One of my friends doesn't use Extenders but the other, a very highly regarded professional, does although he now prefers the FlexShooter head for nearly all his work.

 

[sk66]

I have done a couple of wildlife photography trips abroad this year (and have another one very soon) and I don't take my Gitzo Fluid Gimbal Head with me as it's too bulky and adds weight to my airline baggage. Instead, I travel with my Jobu Jr-3 Deluxe gimbal with two one-inch spacers if extra height is needed so it can screw either onto a post in a hide or fit on my Skimmer base. I also only travel with my Gitzo GT2545T tripod which has the FlexShooter head living on it.

If weight/size are primary considerations I bring only the Sirui L-20s. It does everything required when actually taking pictures and is rated to 55lbs. It does not have leveling function so you have to level the tripod (or close enough). And it doesn't hold position so you have to be hands-on... but you really should be anyway when you're actually expecting to take a picture. It's about as small/light as you can get... and it's cheap (~$100 on e-bay).
It's cheap because it's just a basic pan/tilt head, which is the same primary function all of the other options provide (UniqBall/FlexShooter, Gimbals, Fluid Video)... it's the kind of thing we used to use before gimbals became popular/common.

Or if you prefer, the Acratech Long Lens Head is about the same in specs/function and has nicer controls IMO... but it cost about 3x as much.

 

[sk66]

Do you shoot with a 600mm prime?

I shoot with the Nikon 400/2.8 +TCs... it has all the size/weight/demands of the 600/4. Actually more because it's the older/heavier model and I use it at 800mm frequently.

 

[myotis]

I also only travel with my Gitzo GT2545T tripod which has the FlexShooter head living on it.

Do I remember you writing that you once had a Uniqball? If so, I wondered how much better you found the FlexShooter, and which model you have.

I have both sizes of Uniqball, and although happy enough with them (I like the concept) I do find the way they creep when locking up annoying when doing anything where I want then locked off (close ups and landscapes)

 

[footman]

I use the Flexshooter as a regular ball head as well as a gimbal type , I find it locks down superbly without creep.

 

[myotis]

I use the Flexshooter as a regular ball head as well as a gimbal type , I find it locks down superbly without creep.

Thanks, useful to know, even though changing my uniqball heads, isn't very high up in my financial planning at the moment :-(

 

[RedRobin]

Do I remember you writing that you once had a Uniqball? If so, I wondered how much better you found the FlexShooter, and which model you have.

I have both sizes of Uniqball, and although happy enough with them (I like the concept) I do find the way they creep when locking up annoying when doing anything where I want then locked off (close ups and landscapes)

.... Hi Graham [nice to not be talking 'politics' on TP!]. No, I have never owned or used a Uniqball and so can't offer you a comparison with the FlexShooter from direct hands-on experience.

 

[myotis]

.... Hi Graham [nice to not be talking 'politics' on TP!].

Yes, indeed

I'm obviously mixing things up, as I know one or two people have said they owned, but then sold their Uniqball heads. Art Morris, now sells the FlexShooter heads, and as part of his blurb mentions how unimpressed he had been with an "earlier" version (which can only be the Uniqball), and how good he thinks the Flexshooter is in comparison. Of course, as they are both designed by the same person it seems fairly safe to assume that the Flexshooter is a MkII Uniqball, and probably, genuinely better. It would be interesting to know if it was design issues that caused the original Uniqball team to split into two companies.

The only real issue I have with the Uniqball is the creep issue, which the Flexshooter marketing says has been addressed and Laurence mentioned in his post wasn't an issue with his Flexshooter head. The creep problem is enough to stop it being the "universal" head that it should be, even though I can work around it well enough.

It's still very tempting to make the change :-(

 

[RedRobin]

If weight/size are primary considerations I bring only the Sirui L-20s. It does everything required when actually taking pictures and is rated to 55lbs. It does not have leveling function so you have to level the tripod (or close enough). And it doesn't hold position so you have to be hands-on... but you really should be anyway when you're actually expecting to take a picture. It's about as small/light as you can get... and it's cheap (~$100 on e-bay).
It's cheap because it's just a basic pan/tilt head, which is the same primary function all of the other options provide (UniqBall/FlexShooter, Gimbals, Fluid Video)... it's the kind of thing we used to use before gimbals became popular/common.

Or if you prefer, the Acratech Long Lens Head is about the same in specs/function and has nicer controls IMO... but it cost about 3x as much.

.... I prefer Acratech and Really Right Stuff products all day every day to the Sirui which I have owned (and sold on). You tend to get what you pay for in this industry.

The FlexShooter is a double ballhead, lightweight and compact, includes integrated levelling, doesn't creep and is in my opinion by far the most superior 'ballhead' currently in the market. But it's more than a ballhead and has many characteristics of a gimbal. I still additionally use either a Gitzo Gimbal Fluid Head or a Jobu Jr-3 Delux compact gimbal which is unbeatable for travelling.

A sequence of pics shot on a FlexShooter (actually a FlexLine before it was renamed) locked down and mounted on a Gitzo GT2545T Traveller tripod :

BEE-EATERS COURTSHIP by Robin Procter, on Flickr

And after The Swallowing... The Shagging!!

The above is a slide from my forthcoming video-slideshow on my Winter & Spring 2019 trips to Bulgaria.

 

[robinsslee]

Ok, never heard of Flexshooter before but the concept is very very similar to Uniqball which I owned currently. So they were designed by the same people and Flexshooter is their Mk2 version of Uniqball???

 

[myotis]

Ok, never heard of Flexshooter before but the concept is very very similar to Uniqball which I owned currently. So they were designed by the same people and Flexshooter is their Mk2 version of Uniqball???

Sorry, if this was confusing. As best as I can follow it, the member of the original three people who set up Uniqball, the one with the engineering background who seemed to be behind the engineering part of the Uniqball design, split away from Uniqball to set up his own company and sell an almost identical product now called FlexShooter.

With this new product, he seems to have addressed some of the concerns that were raised about the Uniqball (creep issues in particular) so I was just suggesting that if the Uniqball team had stayed together, this revised design would have been sold as the Uniqball II, rather than a different product from a different company.

 

[robinsslee]

Sorry, if this was confusing. As best as I can follow it, the member of the original three people who set up Uniqball, the one with the engineering background who seemed to be behind the engineering part of the Uniqball design, split away from Uniqball to set up his own company and sell an almost identical product now called FlexShooter.

With this new product, he seems to have addressed some of the concerns that were raised about the Uniqball (creep issues in particular) so I was just suggesting that if the Uniqball team had stayed together, this revised design would have been sold as the Uniqball II, rather than a different product from a different company.

I see, I'll probably check them out after my guiding trip next week.

 

[sk66]

The FlexShooter is a double ballhead

I'm well aware of what the FlexShooter is...
I agree that you get what you pay for up to a point... but beyond that you pay exponentially more for minor improvements/name. And yes,I own/use RRS/Acratech products, along w/ many others.

quence of pics shot on a FlexShooter (actually a FlexLine before it was renamed) locked down and mounted on a Gitzo GT2545T Traveller tripod :

What point is this making? You could have used just about anything and it would have made no difference.

 

[sk66]

With this new product, he seems to have addressed some of the concerns that were raised about the Uniqball (creep issues in particular)

I assume you mean the vertical creep when the panning function is locked (I get no horizontal shift when locking anything).
IME that function is secure well before max locking force is applied (even with very heavy weight lens). So I just start a little low and use the locking knob to center the composition... like using a geared head.

 

[myotis]

I assume you mean the vertical creep when the panning function is locked (I get no horizontal shift when locking anything).

Yes, I do mean the vertical creep, and yes, I do try to start a little low before locking off, but what I hadn't thought of doing was to use the locking knob as a fine adjustment tool. But you are correct, it probably does hold well enough without being fully locked down, I suppose I am just used to fully locking everything down before making the exposure.

 

[RedRobin]

I'm well aware of what the FlexShooter is...
I agree that you get what you pay for up to a point... but beyond that you pay exponentially more for minor improvements/name. And yes,I own/use RRS/Acratech products, along w/ many others.

.... Other people read this thread apart from your good self. You'll understand my posts better if you read them in the context of the whole thread.

Those "minor improvements" make a major difference to me, both in ease-of-use and enjoyment using high quality gear. Each to their own.

What point is this making? You could have used just about anything and it would have made no difference.

.... I was making the point in response to a question about the FlexShooter's ability to easily lock down without creep and proving it with a sequence of the shots I posted.

 

[RedRobin]

Yes, I do mean the vertical creep, and yes, I do try to start a little low before locking off, but what I hadn't thought of doing was to use the locking knob as a fine adjustment tool. But you are correct, it probably does hold well enough without being fully locked down, I suppose I am just used to fully locking everything down before making the exposure.

.... The 'locking' knob can be a very useful fine adjustment tool but if you are photographing subjects such as wildlife which suddenly move, you need some looseness to then quickly get on target.

The Gitzo Fluid Gimbal Head is especially good at giving you the right balance of lockdown and looseness due to its method of fluid resistance. But the FlexShooter is also surprisingly and unexpectedly (for a ballhead) good at this too although not as good as the Gitzo. The FlexShooter isn't as good when it's only supporting the weight of a lighter camera + lens combo - It thrives on weight to work at its best.

If however, you are shooting something reliably motionless or inanimate then a strongly applied lock down (and cable release) is the best way to go as doubtless you already know. As always with camera gear, it depends what you are shooting and it's Horses-for-Courses.

 

[myotis]

.... The 'locking' knob can be a very useful fine adjustment tool but if you are photographing subjects such as wildlife which suddenly move, you need some looseness to then quickly get on target.
If however, you are shooting something reliably motionless or inanimate then a strongly applied lock down (and cable release) is the best way to go as doubtless you already know. As always with camera gear, it depends what you are shooting and it's Horses-for-Courses.

The "creep" with the UniqBall isn't an issue when using it as "gimbal", for as you say, its loosish anyway, and I really have no complaints about it in this regard. And it works well with my telescope as well. But, I also wonder if Steven might be right and that really there is more than enough grip from a partially tightened tensioning knob to hold the camera steady enough for close ups and landscapes, I will certainly give a try. There is also a bit of a workaround, if you use the outer ball for fine adjustment, as their is less creep when locking the outer ball, than locking the inner ball. Indeed, to use the outer ball was the advice given by UniqBall when I raised the creep issue with them

Having said that, I would by far prefer something that locked down tight without any creep, like my Linhof Profi III does (or did, until it became obvious it needed a service, but it must be over 30 years old now)

 

[sk66]

.... The 'locking' knob can be a very useful fine adjustment tool but if you are photographing subjects such as wildlife which suddenly move, you need some looseness to then quickly get on target.

Wait, the FlexShooter does the same thing (shift vertically when locking)?

.... I was making the point in response to a question about the FlexShooter's ability to easily lock down without creep and proving it with a sequence of the shots I posted.

I think "creep" was the wrong term... that is normally associated with the composition drifting off after locking, but that's not what Graham is referring to.

 

[myotis]

Wait, the FlexShooter does the same thing (shift vertically when locking)?

I think "creep" was the wrong term... that is normally associated with the composition drifting off after locking, but that's not what Graham is referring to.

Mmmm, I think of movement after locking off, as drift or slippage, by creep, I mean the position the camera platform "creeping" up (or down, or sideways) as you lock the head off. I did think this was the normal meaning of the term, this seems to have been the understanding when discussing "creep" over the years with professional photographers, and tripod head makers/suppliers, maybe its different in the UK?

Edit: actually thinking about a bit more I realise the term creep has probably normally been qualified with "when locking" or "after locking"

 

[sk66]

Edit: actually thinking about a bit more I realise the term creep has probably normally been qualified with "when locking" or "after locking"

Probably... I've always thought of/referred to it as "shift" (during composition; like using a shift lens or geared head), and "creep" (after composing/locking, because it's bad/creepy).

IMO, with wildlife photography exacting/perfect composition is much less critical. IME trying to get it exact at the time of capture is going to cost you a lot of images... if it's even an option. But yeah, it can be an issue for a do-it-all head...

 

[RedRobin]

My definition of 'creep' is that it's something undesirable which happens as you tighten into a locked down state. My Sirui PH-20 gimbal did it and it was a well reported issue. I got rid of mine because of it. It was also inclined to be notchy. I won't be buying Sirui again as they didn't want to help.

IMO, with wildlife photography exacting/perfect composition is much less critical. IME trying to get it exact at the time of capture is going to cost you a lot of images... if it's even an option. But yeah, it can be an issue for a do-it-all head...

.... I agree that it's better to have an idea how you might compose your wildlife shot later in post-processing rather than risk wasting valuable time at the exact time of shooting. However, as I pointed out before in my Replies #105 & #112, there are occasions in wildlife when locking a composition is very useful (as my sequence of Bee-eater shots illustrate). Understanding a species typical behaviour and anticipating it are pretty fundamental to photographing wildlife successfully.

 

[myotis]

IMO, with wildlife photography exacting/perfect composition is much less critical. IME trying to get it exact at the time of capture is going to cost you a lot of images... if it's even an option. But yeah, it can be an issue for a do-it-all head...

I agree, as I said, using it as a compact "gimbal" replacement its not an issue, because it's being used partially unlocked anyway, it only becomes an issue when you try and make it a universal head for all purposes, which is part of it's attraction.

Uniqball said it was an inevitable consequence of the design, which according to the Flex Shooter web site has been a key consideration when designing the Flexshooter.

Many years ago, working professionally, I had a plethora of heads matching each to different purposes, but now, I'm much keener on multi-purpose heads. Having said that I realise I still have 10 different heads lying around.