Speed awareness course

Cordy

Cordy

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Had to go on a 'speed awareness course' - I got caught in a speed trap doing 36 in a 30 mph area.

Cost £90, but will not get points on licence or need to declare to insurance unless asked.
The course is mostly sitting and listening, no test -- was asked to make notes for my own benefit.
About 2.5 hours
First offence since I started driving 60 years ago.
 
Insurance nearly always ask now if you've been on speed awareness course. If you don't tell them, then they find out your insurance will become invalid. They usually ask when you ring them up to query your renewal price, it is part of a raft of standard questions these days, have you got a criminal conviction not connected to driving amongst other things.
 
My insurance hasn't mentioned it for both my motorbike and the car.(Triumph and Admiral respectively).

I was doing 67 in a 60 dual carriageway on my bike last year. Did the course online, didn't learn much but did get a few pointers I either never knew or forgot.

First time being nicked in the UK since 1982.
 
Cordy said:
Had to go on a 'speed awareness course' - I got caught in a speed trap doing 36 in a 30 mph area.

Cost £90, but will not get points on licence or need to declare to insurance unless asked.
The course is mostly sitting and listening, no test -- was asked to make notes for my own benefit.
About 2.5 hours
First offence since I started driving 60 years ago.
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That's bad luck. The Police Chiefs' recommendation before prosecution..ie a ticket or the course is a leeway of 10% over the limit plus 2. So, in your case 3.6 plus 2 = 35.6. In the 'old days' in a 30 limit it would be 41mph. 38mph-40 would get the driver a 'piece of advice...' :D
 
my mate got one at 34 so its now very strict
rule is dont speed
speed kills especcialy if you drive an SUV
 
Mr Bump said:
my mate got one at 34 so its now very strict
rule is dont speed
speed kills especcialy if you drive an SUV
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I suggest you look at this, a deliberate attack on a five year old by a cyclist. If he had done that to a child of mine, he would have been put in hospital.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Cyclist who kneed a five-year-old girl to the floor WINS court case

The footage was filmed by five-year-old Neia's dad, Patrick Mpasa, during their family walk in a nature reserve in Baraque Michel, Liege Province on Christmas Day 2020.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk
 
Humphrey said:
Insurance nearly always ask now if you've been on speed awareness course. If you don't tell them, then they find out your insurance will become invalid. They usually ask when you ring them up to query your renewal price, it is part of a raft of standard questions these days, have you got a criminal conviction not connected to driving amongst other things.
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Nope. Never had an insurer ask about a speed awareness course. Points on license, yes; pending convictions, yes. Speed awareness, no. If you Google it, pretty much every insurer has it in their FAQ that you do not need to tell them.

For example,

Do you need to tell your insurer if you go on a speed awareness course?​

Insurers have a wide range of criteria they use to assess the cost of your car insurance, so it's best to check with your provider. There's no need to tell LV= that you're going on a speed awareness course, or that you've already attended one.

We only need to know if you've received points on your licence for a motoring conviction or fixed penalty notice.
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Source: https://www.lv.com/car-insurance/speed-awareness

Also, it's generally a myth that not telling your insurer something will cause your insurance to "become invalid". It's extraordinarily difficult for insurers to invalidate the third party portion of insurance and they don't usually invalidate the 1st party for a non disclosure. Generally an insurer would only void the insurance (and have their decision supported by the ombudsman) if the information you didn't disclose would have resulted in their refusal to insure you. An SP30 would usually result in an increased premium - so if you didn't disclose it their sanction would be to increase your premium. But for example, causing death by dangerous driving could result in them refusing to cover you so if you didn't disclose that they could void the insurance.

The insurer might argue that if the customer had given true answers, it would have acted differently. As a result the insurer might:

  • want to charge more for the policy (where there’s been no claim)
  • retrospectively apply a restriction to the policy – which means the claim may be declined
  • settle a claim proportionately
  • avoid the policy – which means the claim will be declined
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www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk

Misrepresentation and non-disclosure

Information for financial businesses about how we deal with complaints about misrepresentation and non-disclosure.
www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk
 
This question came up on the course that I went on (in 2016) and the person running it said that the insurance companies had no way of knowing if you had been on a course or not. There's no central database that the insurance companies access for this. He also pointed out that if he had to answer that question he'd have to say "Yeah, I've been on loads of them!" so the simple question on it's own of whether you had been on one was a bit meaningless.
 
About the 20mph limit, here in the Northumbria area it is not enforced, only 30mph and above, the thing you have to remember is that in the UK all vehicle speedometers have to read over the actual speed that you are traveling at, and it can be as much as 10% depending on the maker. So when your speedo says 60mph, the cars only going about 56/57mph.

The only people I know who have calibrated speedometers are the Police Traffic cars and they replace the fitted one when they are converted to Police cars. They have a certificate of calibration so that they can be used for evidential purposes.

Speed Awareness Courses are nothing but a scam, it makes megabucks for the companies that run them. The trouble with these cameras they capture speeding, but no policeman sees the multitude of other offences that are happening on the roads every minute, most drunk drivers are shopped by someone ringing in these days.
 
Recently renewed/changed the insurance on both cars and although there were many questions nothing about speed awareness courses, maybe because they don’t happen in Scotland or my companies don’t care about them?
 
Drove in Wales at the weeekend... IT WAS PAINFUL! I drive like a saint now that I have my 1st speed awareness course at the end of this month for doing just under 47 in a 40. I was expecting another sanction but that did not materialise...

£92 for the same company that does driving courses for work...

Something I discovered through the work driving courses was the significance of signs on a yellow background. That usually means there has been an accident with a fatality during daytime, and when it is lit means that a fatality has happened at night - happy to be corrected....

Every single new sign in Wales has a yellow background. Seriously! was the situation so bad in Wales that they could justify every new sign having a yellow background?
 
Humphrey said:
Speed Awareness Courses are nothing but a scam, it makes megabucks for the companies that run them. The trouble with these cameras they capture speeding, but no policeman sees the multitude of other offences that are happening on the roads every minute, most drunk drivers are shopped by someone ringing in these days.
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So don't give them the money. Speedometers generally over read, so what's the problem...

We (apparently) want austerity and the police to cost less, but oops, that means fewer of them on the road. It's always someone else's law breaking that is the problem, not ours.
 
welshwizard645 said:
Drove in Wales at the weeekend... IT WAS PAINFUL! I drive like a saint now that I have my 1st speed awareness course at the end of this month for doing just under 47 in a 40. I was expecting another sanction but that did not materialise...

£92 for the same company that does driving courses for work...

Something I discovered through the work driving courses was the significance of signs on a yellow background. That usually means there has been an accident with a fatality during daytime, and when it is lit means that a fatality has happened at night - happy to be corrected....

Every single new sign in Wales has a yellow background. Seriously! was the situation so bad in Wales that they could justify every new sign having a yellow background?
Click to expand...
not in north Wales just normal white background .. 20 is a bloody pain the road into our town goes 40 for a mile . 50 for a couple of hundred yards then rounds a bend and goes to 20 .. o.k if you know the road a speed trap point if you don't
 
the black fox said:
.. o.k if you know the road a speed trap point if you don't
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At an open council meeting on proposed changes to the local speed limits, we were told by one of the council officers that speed limits are supposed to be set in such a way that a normal driver has adequate warning of a change from a faster to a slower limit. :thinking:
 
welshwizard645 said:
Every single new sign in Wales has a yellow background. Seriously! was the situation so bad in Wales that they could justify every new sign having a yellow background?
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Fatalities last year in Wales were about 90. "Ksi" which is killed or seriously injured was about 1000.

Uk deaths in 2021 was about 1500 / ksi c27k. The population of the UK is about 20 * that of Wales so crudely yes, the roads in Wales may be a bit more dangerous than those in the rest of the UK but possibly the real answer is you're more likely to be seriously injured on a Welsh road than elsewhere in the UK.

I didn't check but I'd guess that fatalities are more common the higher the speed so MAYBE there are more low speed impacts in Wales. And a 20 mph impact is a lot less dangerous than a 30. So you can make a case for the 20 limit. Or possibly against it depending on your point of view :)
 
JonathanRyan said:
I didn't check but I'd guess that fatalities are more common the higher the speed...
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The following research summary makes it very clear that such is the case...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The relationship between impact speed and the probability of pedestrian fatality during a vehicle-pedestrian crash: A systematic review and meta-analysis - PubMed

The results of the meta-analysis support setting speed limits of 30-40 km/h for high pedestrian active areas. These speed limits are commonly used by best practice countries that have the lowest road fatality rates and that practice a Safe System Approach to road safety.
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

In summary:
  • at 18.5 MPH a pedestrian hit by a car has a 5% chance of dying.
  • A small increase to 23 MPH doubles that chance to 10%,
  • Increase that speed to 36.5 MPH and the pedestrian has a 1 in 2 chance of being killed.
  • A small increase to 43 MPH reduces the pedestrian's chance of survival to 1 in 4.
  • Hitting them at 50 MPH means that they have only 1 chance in10 of surviving.
(I've converted the speeds in the abstract from KPH to MPH for convenience.)

So the message really is: "speed kills".

Hearse parked in Exeter Road Exmouth A65 DSC03170.JPG
 
It's possible to convert miles to kilometres using a simple Fibonacci formula.

eg 8 miles is 13 kilometres - 34 kilometres is 21 miles etc

Some Fib numbers 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34, 55, 89, 144, 233 etc.



LOOK HERE
 
welshwizard645 said:
Drove in Wales at the weeekend... IT WAS PAINFUL! I drive like a saint now that I have my 1st speed awareness course at the end of this month for doing just under 47 in a 40. I was expecting another sanction but that did not materialise...

£92 for the same company that does driving courses for work...

Something I discovered through the work driving courses was the significance of signs on a yellow background. That usually means there has been an accident with a fatality during daytime, and when it is lit means that a fatality has happened at night - happy to be corrected....

Every single new sign in Wales has a yellow background. Seriously! was the situation so bad in Wales that they could justify every new sign having a yellow background?
Click to expand...

Signs in and around Pontypridd and Caerphilly, both old and new are white BG. Personally I have no problem with the 20mph limit, as far as I have found it adds quite very little extra journey time.
 
Agree with Andrew and Mex, its for safety of pedestrians
Unfortunately it’s been brought into wales in my opinion because of a few dangerous idiots that were doing 40 plus in the 30 limits
They should have just enforced the existing limits rather than reduce it to 20 , if they had done that the change to 20 would not have been necessary
As for the OP I would definitely inform your insurance company if they ever found out your insurance would be invalid
 
I had to do one a few years ago, I was caught at about 8 a.m. on a Sunday morning on an empty road, doing 36 in a 30. The road had a 40 limit until 200 m before the camera van, which was hidden around a bend. There was a 30 limit sign, but it was almost completely obscured by a tree. Most of the other people on the course reported similar circumstances and it's difficult to support a system that deliberately sets out to entrap people, rather than to actually improve road safety.

Since then, I always drive with my satnav on, to get warnings of upcoming speed limit changes.

As for the course itself, I learned nothing from it.
Pound Coin said:
We (apparently) want austerity and the police to cost less, but oops, that means fewer of them on the road. It's always someone else's law breaking that is the problem, not ours.
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Personally, I would be happy to pay more for more effective policing, but I think that we already pay far too much for what we actually get. It's experienced (and fair) police officers, especially those in unmarked cars, that improve road safety and reduce crime and no amount of technology is a substitute for the real thing.
 
Garry Edwards said:
Personally, I would be happy to pay more for more effective policing, but I think that we already pay far too much for what we actually get. It's experienced (and fair) police officers, especially those in unmarked cars, that improve road safety and reduce crime and no amount of technology is a substitute for the real thing.
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I think that horse bolted years ago. Hugely expensive to have officers sitting in cars waiting for lawbreaking motorists.

Our society relies on people not breaking the law, there isn't enough police strength, or army strength any more for anything else.

As for 'fair' police officers, as I understand it, if their technology shows you are over the limit, that's it, you get done. The days of officers timing you between bridges on the motorway are long gone.
 
Pound Coin said:
I think that horse bolted years ago. Hugely expensive to have officers sitting in cars waiting for lawbreaking motorists.

Our society relies on people not breaking the law, there isn't enough police strength, or army strength any more for anything else.

As for 'fair' police officers, as I understand it, if their technology shows you are over the limit, that's it, you get done. The days of officers timing you between bridges on the motorway are long gone.
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I fully accept that, but technology doesn't replace real policing.
The last time I was stopped by police, quite a few years ago, I was towing a Landrover that my son had bought the day before. Now, there's nothing even remotely unusual about a Japanese 4x4 with a trailer on the back and with a Landy on the trailer, but it attracted police attention because thieves are attracted to valuable cars that are easy to steal.

There was nothing wrong and the police were soon satisfied, and we were on our way again. No amount of technology would have replaced a police officer in that situation. My concern is that the obsession with setting traps to catch motorists, just after a reduction in the speed limit, seems to be more about revenue generation than about road safety.
 
Our society relies on people not breaking the law.

And motorists (amongst others) understanding what privilege they have, and acting accordingly.
 
I think we need way more camera's in much more urban and built up areas, we have the technology to make them much smaller and much cheaper.
I recently worked on a project with border force at london gateway port and we were installing as part of an IT upgrade Bosch ANPR/Speed cameras that were part of a lane/ttruck scanning and routing system. They were about £800 each and admitted they could only cope up to about 50mph but i bet someone could put them in a box with some tech linked to a SIM for 5k each and dot them all arround, they would pay for themselfs in a year and then ongoing fines could be used to maintain the network and feed into government coffers.
 
mex said:
Signs in and around Pontypridd and Caerphilly, both old and new are white BG. Personally I have no problem with the 20mph limit, as far as I have found it adds quite very little extra journey time.
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Denbighshire is yellow background on new signs which is extremely misleading, basically implying the roads are dangerous.

As we are more sparsely populated in the North, average speeds have gone done from 30 to under 20 mph. What I find most terrifying is the increase in tailgating,
 
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