Speeding.....

[rick448]

More and more technogical intervention dumbs driving down even more. Cars are now safer than ever and the actual driving of them is just an afterthought for many people.

As I've often heard quoted if you want people to drive safer then remove all seatbelts and other safety systems and stick a 6" dagger out of the steering wheel.

 

[rick448]

holy tripple post batman

 

[dejongj]

More and more technogical intervention dumbs driving down even more. Cars are now safer than ever and the actual driving of them is just an afterthought for many people.

As I've often heard quoted if you want people to drive safer then remove all seatbelts and other safety systems and stick a 6" dagger out of the steering wheel.

Emotionally I agree. However when measuring the facts, something actuaries do, the reality is very different

 

[Pookeyhead]

I'm glad you are mister perfect, however if I was behind you on that road and all of a sudden you braked for no reason I wouldn't be happy.

I really don't understand what you are trying to argue here.

I'm not.. just saying... if I brake.. for whatever reason, and you find it hard to avoid hitting me, it's your fault for being too close. If you're the correct distance from teh car in front, nothing that car does should be causing you any major problems from a safety point of view. Admittedly, there's a great deal I could do to annoy you, but that's a different matter.

 

[pwhysall]

The Golf R is a nice car but it's not hyper-anything.

 

[Byker28i]

I think the hyper thing, 30 years ago we had cars considered quick when they did 0-60 in 8.5-9 secs and fast was 6-7.5 secs. Very fast was sub 6 secs.
Now with economy drive, it's still the same criteria. The odd super car has got quicker, but the law of physics still apply. As cars have got safer,, so they've got heavier, so the increases in power and reliability haven't necessarily meant everything's got quicker.

Then we buy cars packed with toys, that increase weight more.


My mazda 6 has auto braking but only under 20 mph. Not sure if ever trust it, I prefer to operate things myself. Probably why I like the TVR.

 

[Byker28i]

Just checked, 1983, ford escort xr3i 0-60 in 8.6 secs from a 1600
1982, mk1 golf gti 0-60 in 8.1

 

[Jelster]

Just checked, 1983, ford escort xr3i 0-60 in 8.6 secs from a 1600
1982, mk1 golf gti 0-60 in 8.1

M135i (with the sport auto) has been clocked @ 4.6, for a £32k car, that's very, very quick. Amazingly, it drives "normally" very nicely too

 

[dejongj]

M135i (with the sport auto) has been clocked @ 4.6, for a £32k car, that's very, very quick. Amazingly, it drives "normally" very nicely too

Exactly! standard Golf R with DSG gearbox is consistently measured at 4.5s. A stage 1 like mine does 3.7s, and sub 12s for the 1/4 mile. Not bad for a hot hatch.

Regarding assistive technologies, I find they work just fine. The side wind assist and active cornering on our main family make that thing do stuff so easily that it is amazing.

Naturally you have to pay attention, but hey I'm man enough to admit I cant beat the scanning of a computer, nor see in the darkness.

 

[Pookeyhead]

Naturally you have to pay attention, but hey I'm man enough to admit I cant beat the scanning of a computer, nor see in the darkness.

That's you though. I wonder how many just become complacent instead.

Sorry.. just can't be doing with computer packed modern cars. No soul. Maybe I'm just getting old... LOL

 

[rick448]

Exactly! standard Golf R with DSG gearbox is consistently measured at 4.5s. A stage 1 like mine does 3.7s, and sub 12s for the 1/4 mile. Not bad for a hot hatch.

Regarding assistive technologies, I find they work just fine. The side wind assist and active cornering on our main family make that thing do stuff so easily that it is amazing.

Naturally you have to pay attention, but hey I'm man enough to admit I cant beat the scanning of a computer, nor see in the darkness.

Most tests I've seen have the Golf R at over 5 secs to 60. What does the stage 1 involve if it does 3.7 to 60? Must be quite a hike in power from a remap I guess, what are you using to time your runs out of interest?

 

[mattyg]

Cheers, was just wondering.

Back to the op, 1st speeding offence in a 30 zone will not alter your insurance, you clearly have no intention of repeating it so unless you just want to keep a clean licence just take the points, pay the fine and move on.
Out of interest, if you were to take the course, would you have to still declare a motoring conviction to your insurance company?

Oh, one other thing, I wouldn't mention to anyone official that you hadn't noticed you'd gone from a 40 to a 30 zone when it was signed as that 'could' be interpreted as driving without due care and attention.

No - because you don't have a motoring conviction.

That's one of the reasons access to the course is limited - it's omnly available if you've "just" gone over the limit and if you haven't had one (or a fine) in the previous (I think) 4 years - it may be 3 years, can't remember exactly..

No you wont have a conviction to declare but some insurance companies are now asking if you've been on a speed awareness course. Which you should answer truthfully because if you ever let slip at a later date it could make your insurance invalid as you've made a false declaration.

However there is NO WAY they can check if you've been on a course or not so it's realistically down to whether you can keep schtum.

 

[dejongj]

Most tests I've seen have the Golf R at over 5 secs to 60. What does the stage 1 involve if it does 3.7 to 60? Must be quite a hike in power from a remap I guess, what are you using to time your runs out of interest?

That would be either the manual version or the previous generation as there is no way a DSG even as stock would be over 5 seconds, no way. Mine were measured using a vBox, Grails & Santa Pod.

I'm using a DTUK FSR+ and also a DTUK Pedal Box although the latter doesn't do anything for power, yet it is so good I got another one for my Merck.

 

[Byker28i]

Exactly! standard Golf R with DSG gearbox is consistently measured at 4.5s. A stage 1 like mine does 3.7s, and sub 12s for the 1/4 mile. Not bad for a hot hatch.

M135 does in fact do 4.5 secs on 0-60 in real tests
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/bmw/m135i-2012-2014/performance

Gol;f R does around 5.0 secs in real terms with the DSG. I can't find one review article that made it below 5.1 secs in real tests

Golf R tests non dsg
5.2 secs
http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/reviews/a6325/2015-volkswagen-golf-r-european-spec/


According to Autocar, VW claim 5.2 or 4.9 with the DSG, Evo magazine (who I trust to thrash) say the same
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/volkswagen/golf-r/performance

Every article says the DSG is 0.2 secs faster, so nowhere near 4.5 - sorry.

Stick up a copy of your santa pod tickets then...

 

[Steve Smith]

i guess you could say going 75mph on a motorway is a "victimless crime" so ok - similar to cycling along and going through a red pedestrian crossing when there are no peds in sight.

That's the equivalent of saying it's o.k. to shoplift small items from Tesco as the items are cheap and they can afford the loss.


Steve.

 

[John Young]

Back to the op, 1st speeding offence in a 30 zone will not alter your insurance, you clearly have no intention of repeating it so unless you just want to keep a clean licence just take the points, pay the fine and move on.
Out of interest, if you were to take the course, would you have to still declare a motoring conviction to your insurance company?

Oh, one other thing, I wouldn't mention to anyone official that you hadn't noticed you'd gone from a 40 to a 30 zone when it was signed as that 'could' be interpreted as driving without due care and attention.

Thanks... I'll just take what comes but I would like a clean licence like I always have had (was quite proud)

I was also curious about the insurance thing

 

[pwhysall]

Not everycar will have radar systems integrated to automatically brake when the person in front does something daft. In my 15k miles I had it intervene twice where it braked quicker than I did. Although I still would have been ok.

Once though some old fool came from the tight from an unhardened surface and decided to pull out right in front of me. Yes I saw him way back, but hey it was an unhardened surface, he came to a halt, even looked in my direction, yet then still went for it. Without front assist im pretty certain I would have gone in the side of him.

If you like we can try it out at the megga meet in June as part of a high speed photography challenge. You remain standing in front and ill accelerate as fast as I can with all my horses towards you and won't hjt the brakes

I think I've braked very hard (i.e. full-on emergency stop) on the open road once, in about fifteen years of 25K/year driving.

It was my fault; I was too close.

Twice in 15K would have me re-evaluating my approach to driving.

 

[pwhysall]

That's the equivalent of saying it's o.k. to shoplift small items from Tesco as the items are cheap and they can afford the loss.

I think it's different in that 75MPH doesn't meaningfully elevate the risk versus 70MPH, whereas shoplifting even small items does cause a material loss for Tesco. Other than making all speed enforcement fully manual, where you end up getting done for going faster than a police officer thought you should at the time, you have to pick a number. Personally I think 70 is too slow for our motorways at the moment.

I actually favour the removal of extra-urban limits on free-flowing roads (limits for congestion management and incidents would stay, but be temporary). At this point the crowd goes "yay!"

However, as a pre-requisite to this, I also favour making the driving test so demanding that only about 25% of current drivers would pass it, with a hard limit of 3 attempts. At this point the crowd goes "boo!"

 

[dejongj]

According to Autocar, VW claim 5.2 or 4.9 with the DSG, Evo magazine (who I trust to thrash) say the same
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/volkswagen/golf-r/performance

Every article says the DSG is 0.2 secs faster, so nowhere near 4.5 - sorry.

Stick up a copy of your santa pod tickets then...

And that same article from autocar, when you actually read it shows that they measured (compared to VW's claims) it with two up and a full tank in the wet at 4.8s. Look I don't want to get into some kind of dick measuring context over this you can go over to the rforums and babybmw for that kind of thing. I just think that all of them (BMW, Mercedes and VW Golf R; can't stand the interior of the Audi S3) are very good and slightly different choices.. There have been so many reviews over the last year I haven't kept track of them all....

But none of that was the point, the point was about the safety features on board which is recognised by the insurance industry and translated in very low insurance premiums.

 

[dejongj]

I think I've braked very hard (i.e. full-on emergency stop) on the open road once, in about fifteen years of 25K/year driving.

It was my fault; I was too close.

Twice in 15K would have me re-evaluating my approach to driving.

Nope you didn't read it right, I didn't say that at all....

Gosh the armchair experts are out in full at the moment aren't they? I'm glad the actuaries evaluate the true risk and not on some armchair perceived emotional opinion...

 

[dejongj]

That's the equivalent of saying it's o.k. to shoplift small items from Tesco as the items are cheap and they can afford the loss.


Steve.

Difference between that when you steel something there is an actual victim. Yet when you drive through a red light and don't hit anyone there is no actual victim, likewise with speeding. Sure there is the potential of a victim but not actually one there.

I find the whole victim surcharge thing a money spinning scheme in the uk, but hey those are the rules. I got a victim surcharge for having pre-1972 plates in black/silver on a post 1973 vehicle. I'm still wondering who the victim was in that?

 

[Byker28i]

Hum wonder how fast it would be if it wasn't packed the to gunnels with fancy toys

 

[stupar]

There's only one VW Golf that falls into Hyper hatch territory and that's the Boba Mk2 golf with 1000+ bhp.

Check Youtube out if you have never seen it. Its insane.
I think there is also a mk1 variant kicking about too.

 

[boliston]

That's the equivalent of saying it's o.k. to shoplift small items from Tesco as the items are cheap and they can afford the loss.

I expect most motorists can hand on heart say they have at least once in their life drifted over 70mph on a motorway and most cyclists will have at some time in their life sneaked through a red pedestrian light if there are no peds in sight, but unless someone is a chav (ok there are quite a few of these in some paces!) they probabaly not have gone shop lifting in tescos.

 

[Blank_Canvas]

All of the fatal road traffic collisions I have attended have been caused by drivers going to fast for the conditions, not paying attention to where they are going(distracted), falling asleep at the wheel impairment through drink / drugs (or a combination of both) and finally mechanical failure. I'm not totally convinced that a driving test every five year would help improve road safety. Compulsory eye and perception tests are a good idea though in my opinion.

 

[stupar]

I expect most motorists can hand on heart say they have at least once in their life drifted over 70mph on a motorway and most cyclists will have at some time in their life sneaked through a red pedestrian light if there are no peds in sight, but unless someone is a chav (ok there are quite a few of these in some paces!) they probabaly not have gone shop lifting in tescos.

As a cyclist I can hand on heart say I have never gone through a red light (junction or pedestrian crossing).
At junctions/crossroads I always stop as it gives me a chance to watch for the lax motorist who drives into the orange bike box........but that's a different story now

 

[SFTPhotography]

I expect most motorists can hand on heart say they have at least once in their life drifted over 70mph on a motorway and most cyclists will have at some time in their life sneaked through a red pedestrian light if there are no peds in sight, but unless someone is a chav (ok there are quite a few of these in some paces!) they probabaly not have gone shop lifting in tescos.

LOL!!!!

 

[Mr Bump]

Camerase are not there to catch people who drift over the limit.
they are often set at 35 in a 30 and 45 in a 40 etc.

thats not drifting

remember the speed limit on the road is the MAXIMUM permitted not the MINIUMUM.

 

[Dave *]

remember the speed limit on the road is the MAXIMUM permitted not the MINIUMUM.

So the safety campaigners say, which doesn't quite equate with the fact that doing 20 in a 30 or 40 in a 50 will invariably lead to a candidate failing their driving test...

 

[nilagin]

The new Honda Civc R - even more BHP and performance than the Golf R

I'd rather have the new Focus RS when it goes on sale later this year, at least 320bhp but the rumours at work are it will be more like 350-360bhp. Mountune will likely take that to 400bhp without it affecting the warranty, more still if you're not worried about the warranty.

 

[boliston]

So the safety campaigners say, which doesn't quite equate with the fact that doing 20 in a 30 or 40 in a 50 will invariably lead to a candidate failing their driving test...

they should change the name from speed limit to speed target if this is the case

 

[pwhysall]

So the safety campaigners say, which doesn't quite equate with the fact that doing 20 in a 30 or 40 in a 50 will invariably lead to a candidate failing their driving test...

You should drive at the speed limit, unless there is a reason to drive more slowly.

There is often a reason to drive more slowly, especially on rural roads and in urban areas.

 

[boliston]

You should drive at the speed limit, unless there is a reason to drive more slowly.

I often drive along 60mph roads and 50mph seems less stressful and a more natural cruising speed for my peug 107 - in a bmw it would probably seem slow as you dont feel every small bump in the road in the same way - a cyclist on a carbon fibre bike would probably cruise faster than someone on a Raleigh shopper

 

[rick448]

I often drive along 60mph roads and 50mph seems less stressful and a more natural cruising speed for my peug 107 - in a bmw it would probably seem slow as you dont feel every small bump in the road in the same way - a cyclist on a carbon fibre bike would probably cruise faster than someone on a Raleigh shopper

Which is fine, but you are likely to get a huge queue of traffic behind which then inevitably leads to frustration for some drivers and people taking risks to overtake. Especially when those following do not leave a gap to allow others who wish to overtake to do so safely. Whilst I may wish to drive faster than the limit in an NSL area I'm not going to get bothered by someone doing that limit where possible. At 50 you are likely to even have LGV's queuing up (even though the limit is 40 for those) many forces do not enforce the LGV limit rigorously as it allows traffic to flow easier.

I guess speed limits will always be an emotive subject and I for one think they are total nonsense in many areas with a lack of common sense in the levels applied, however I do know that if I am caught I have to take the consequences. Much like any law we choose to break, of which I am sure many do. We pick and choose the ones we stick to and the ones we consider silly.

 

[wyx087]

Just this morning on a clear road. I had a Mazda driver tailgate me all the way on a suburban road 30mph with some 40mph. I had cruise control set at 32mph (sat-nav says 29mph real speed) on the 30mph roads and 42 on 40mph. Then on single-lane national speed limit, I drove at 60 and he even moved across to overtake WITH clearly visible oncoming traffic.

It's those people speed cameras meant to catch. We may slip up, we will have to take it on the chin and take the points for 5 years. It'll disappear soon before you know it



Regarding assists and automation. It's the future, there's no point denying it and saying taking away seat belts will make people drive safer, truth of the matter is people don't drive to cause accidents. People want to get from A to B in the safest and fastest possible way, automation can help with both.

Imagine motorways without any congestion, imagine you can get from London to Bristol 1hr30 instead of 2hr30, imagine motorways are actually fast moving (eg 100mph). Mercedes and Audi (to name a few) already have the technology to drive autonomously on the motorway, the automation in complex urban environment still need tweaking, but automation on motorway is far safer than slow-reacting, poor-judgement, road-raging humans.

My vision of 2020 is to have outer most lane on motorway dedicated to autonomous cars with a much higher speed limit. You drive your car normally onto the motorway, then you press a button to let automation take control. It safely merges (humans can't merge to safe their life!) and drive on the motorway until 5miles away from exit, where exits the outside lane and prompts the driver to take control.

 

[stupar]

My vision of 2020 is to have outer most lane on motorway dedicated to autonomous cars with a much higher speed limit. You drive your car normally onto the motorway, then you press a button to let automation take control. It safely merges (humans can't merge to safe their life!) and drive on the motorway until 5miles away from exit, where exits the outside lane and prompts the driver to take control.

All fine and well until some charlie pulls into the outside lane and impedes the progress of said autonomous car.

What would happen at the 5 mile point if the adjoining lane is nose to tail and the autonomous car couldn't merge safely, will it force its way in or will it miss your exit and make you late

 

[srichards]

You'd need 4 lane motorways or to ban trucks overtaking to make the faster outside lane idea work. It'd only take one muppet to try and go into the outside lane to cause carnage. Far more carnage than you have at the moment. Motorways are still the safest roads in spite of plans to bugger them up by introducing accident increasing Gatso and Specs cameras.

 

[wyx087]

All fine and well until some charlie pulls into the outside lane and impedes the progress of said autonomous car.

What would happen at the 5 mile point if the adjoining lane is nose to tail and the autonomous car couldn't merge safely, will it force its way in or will it miss your exit and make you late

In that case, I'd blame the meatbags for driving nose to tail. Another reason for full automation on motorway

 

[dejongj]

Wow the negativity is strong in this thread. There are many ways to resolve those issues, lets not let them get in the way of progress.

 

[stupar]

It not negativity its mere common sense thinking in that it will be extremely difficult to get autonomous cars to mix with human driven equivalents