Tesco enabling copyright infringements

BruceMo

BruceMo

Messages
2,403
Name
Bruce
Edit My Images
No
I had a client come back for another shoot yesterday, and she told me she got a lovely canvas done of one of my shots
I asked her how she managed that, and she told me she got it done in Tesco, to which I responded something along the lines of- well you got lucky as they are protected images and they are not meant to do it
So I phoned Tesco shop, spoke to 2 different managers, told 2 different things, so asked for head office number
I then phoned head office, got a very nice lad who totally understood my issue with it, and after a few phone calls to make sure what company policy was, he apologetically told me it was the norm to allow customers to copy what they wanted as long as they pressed a button to say the images were not copyright protected
Is everyone aware of this?
I'm totally not happy with it and phoned local trading standards to see if they have any legal obligation to protect our work, but as yet no reply to my voicemail
What's your opinions on this, and is there anything else I could do?
 
there's no way tescos could check the copyright of every shot, anymore than TP can check the ownership of every photo uploaded here - its down to the clients honesty or otherwise , if they choose to lie to Tesco (or whoever) then its them who are breaching copyright and them who are to blame.
 
pretty much standard for any retailer that has unmanned booths. jessops, Tesco, asda, boots etc etc

some have been known to refuse to print photos on the grounds that they look "too professional", then they get slated for that too. they cant check every single photo, especially if there is no evidence to suggest they are copyrighted works (I.e a sticker on the rear, but then even that can be removed).
 
big soft moose said:
there's no way tescos could check the copyright of every shot, anymore than TP can check the ownership of every photo uploaded here - its down to the clients honesty or otherwise , if they choose to lie to Tesco (or whoever) then its them who are breaching copyright and them who are to blame.
Click to expand...

I dont agree
They could easily check if a print is protected, just turn it over
It's like saying they couldn't possibly check every self scan transaction involving alcohol, knives etc. But they do
And I never said they were doing anything apart from enabling the infringement
Mt local printer never allowed you to copy things in doubt, but then again, they shut down
I think it's terrible Tesco allows this, surely with their high end copiers, there comes responsability
 
neil_g said:
pretty much standard for any retailer that has unmanned booths. jessops, Tesco, asda, boots etc etc

some have been known to refuse to print photos on the grounds that they look "too professional", then they get slated for that too. they cant check every single photo, especially if there is no evidence to suggest they are copyrighted works (I.e a sticker on the rear, but then even that can be removed).
Click to expand...

My prints come from dscl and are printed on rear copyright protected image. Pretty easy to check, no?
 
How do you feel a superstore should proceed?

I always add my copyright to the RAW files when I import them into Lightroom, and include that in the exif of the JPegs. When I have images of close friends or family that I think they'll like, I am happy to supply them will a CD or download of a high res file, for them to print copies of as they wish.

Should the shop tell them they cannot print the shots (since they are copyright, and have no tangible proof of right to print)?

And if they should require 'proof', how should it be supplied?
A text file saying it's OK?
If that's sufficient, what's to stop someone who doesn't have rights to simply add such a file?

I'm not saying copyright on shots should be ignored, I'm just interested in how you think places such as Supermarkets should enforce / police this, in a way that both protects your rights, and also makes it easy for people to share images when they wish to?
 
BruceMo said:
They could easily check if a print is protected, just turn it over
Click to expand...

ah right so someone scanned a print.. so theyre stickered? or stamped?

some retailers have unmanned scanning booths, so again you should be aiming your anger at the client.

BruceMo said:
My prints come from dscl and are printed on rear copyright protected image. Pretty easy to check, no?
Click to expand...

as above. if the retailer never saw the print, how can they check?
 
Richard King said:
Dont give away image files
Use a contract (and then enforce it)
Click to expand...

It was scanned from a print, and difficuilt to enforce a contract if you dont know of a violation
The client innocently told me as a bit of conversation, that wont happen too often i wouldn't imagine
 
neil_g said:
that was going to be my follow up post, where did the client get the image file in a large print worthy quality?
Click to expand...

The tesco girl commented on the lovely quality image, which they could easilly copy for her :bonk:
 
Faldrax said:
How do you feel a superstore should proceed?

I always add my copyright to the RAW files when I import them into Lightroom, and include that in the exif of the JPegs. When I have images of close friends or family that I think they'll like, I am happy to supply them will a CD or download of a high res file, for them to print copies of as they wish.

Should the shop tell them they cannot print the shots (since they are copyright, and have no tangible proof of right to print)?

And if they should require 'proof', how should it be supplied?
A text file saying it's OK?
If that's sufficient, what's to stop someone who doesn't have rights to simply add such a file?

I'm not saying copyright on shots should be ignored, I'm just interested in how you think places such as Supermarkets should enforce / police this, in a way that both protects your rights, and also makes it easy for people to share images when they wish to?
Click to expand...

Turn over the print and look would be a good start :shrug:
 
BruceMo said:
My prints come from dscl and are printed on rear copyright protected image. Pretty easy to check, no?
Click to expand...

pretty easy for the client to scan at home and take a CD/memory stick to Tesco as well

bottom line though why do you expect tescos to enforce your copyright for you - its not their business its between you and the client - client says they have your permission why should tescos doubt them ?

They turn the print over and look and say "it says here the image is copyright" , client says " oh that's okay he said I could use them" what are tescos supposed to do next - accuse a customer of lying ?

Alcohol/knives etc is completely different as it's both a matter of public safety and criminal law - copyright is neither , and even with alcohol etc they just ask to see a proof of age - if the customer produces one they don't carry out an indepth check of the whys and wherefores to make sure its not snide
 
Last edited:
... charge a price where you don't care what the customer does
 
neil_g said:
ah right so someone scanned a print.. so theyre stickered? or stamped?

some retailers have unmanned scanning booths, so again you should be aiming your anger at the client.



as above. if the retailer never saw the print, how can they check?
Click to expand...

They did see it, the tesco girl helped process it, as long as they press the button, it eliminates our protection
Funny, I thought the response to this would be very different
Nice to know people just need to buy one print and copy away
And just to show the client in questions integrity, after the latest shoot, she still bought multiple copies of a few shots
 
big soft moose said:
pretty easy for the client to scan at home and take a CD/memory stick to Tesco as well

bottom line though why do you expect tescos to enforce your copyright for you - its not their business its between you and the client - client says they have your permission why should tescos doubt them ?

Because people lie when it suits them, would it be asking too much to ask for a letter of confirmation, or suggest getting a digital file?
I dont expect them to enable this so easilly, as I said, with there high end eqipment, I think that should come with some responsability, such as a very basic check. You don't. so be it



They turn the print over and look and say "it says here the image is copyright" , client says " oh that's okay he said I could use them" what are tescos supposed to do next - accuse a customer of lying ?

So if they suspect a customer of being a shoplifter, and ask them to acompany them to the office, if the customer said, I dont have anything, they should just believe them? Right oh
Click to expand...
 
BruceMo said:
They did see it, the tesco girl helped process it, as long as they press the button, it eliminates our protection
Funny, I thought the response to this would be very different
Nice to know people just need to buy one print and copy away
And just to show the client in questions integrity, after the latest shoot, she still bought multiple copies of a few shots
Click to expand...

don't get me wrong ive had plenty of copyright breached over the years.

i think this is more a case of client education on why your contract says images cannot be reproduced. and what that means if they breach the agreement.
 
neil_g said:
don't get me wrong ive had plenty of copyright breached over the years.

i think this is more a case of client education on why your contract says images cannot be reproduced. and what that means if they breach the agreement.
Click to expand...

But we'd never find out. This was purely a chance conversation
I'm just going to agree to be wrong, as I seem to be the only one feeling this way
cheers
 
What can Tesco do.. Is the image "out of copyright, is it a pristine image from years ago and out of copyright, is the person presenting the image the photographer?

Thay cant police something that has so many variables. Your beef is with your customer
 
BruceMo said:
But we'd never find out. This was purely a chance conversation
I'm just going to agree to be wrong, as I seem to be the only one feeling this way
cheers
Click to expand...

i used to get wound up about it too but now i think you have to price your initial product well enough not to worry too much about a crappy £20 canvas from Tesco. also try and educate your client why your canvas prices might be higher.

yes its annoying but youre never going to stop it all once the client has the photo in their hands (physical or digital).
 
Our Tesco has a sign prominently displayed at the photo area stating "It is the customer's responsibility to ensure they have the right to have images printed".

If any infringing is being done, it is by the customer requesting the prints, not the company chosen to print them.


Steve.
 
Richard King said:
... charge a price where you don't care what the customer does
Click to expand...

^^^ This.

BruceMo said:
I dont blame customers for wanting to do this
I object to tesco making it so easy, regardless of price
Click to expand...

You seem to have missed Richard's point.

We live in a new technological age. A large part of copyright protection in the past was down to the photographer holding the negatives which meant it was very hard to get a good quality copy of a print. That's all changed. So change your business model accordingly.

I wouldn't blame Tescos. I wouldn't really blame the girl either; most people know nothing about copyright and just think it's bonkers when explained to them. Many photographers don't understand it come to that. Frankly, you just need to get real - either change your business practise or go mad trying to change the world. Sorry to be blunt...
 
BruceMo said:
I had a client come back for another shoot yesterday, and she told me she got a lovely canvas done of one of my shots
I asked her how she managed that, and she told me she got it done in Tesco, to which I responded something along the lines of- well you got lucky as they are protected images and they are not meant to do it
So I phoned Tesco shop, spoke to 2 different managers, told 2 different things, so asked for head office number
I then phoned head office, got a very nice lad who totally understood my issue with it, and after a few phone calls to make sure what company policy was, he apologetically told me it was the norm to allow customers to copy what they wanted as long as they pressed a button to say the images were not copyright protected
Is everyone aware of this?
I'm totally not happy with it and phoned local trading standards to see if they have any legal obligation to protect our work, but as yet no reply to my voicemail
What's your opinions on this, and is there anything else I could do?
Click to expand...

So what else can they do? Check EVERY single pic?

Remember how easy it is to create a letterhead in Word? I could easily knock one up in 5 mins saying I have copyright. Or, I scan in the print at home and take it in - no exif!

Look, at some point in our lives we have all done similar - copied a CD off someone, downloaded something for free, it goes on and will never stop
 
neil_g said:
don't get me wrong ive had plenty of copyright breached over the years.

i think this is more a case of client education on why your contract says images cannot be reproduced. and what that means if they breach the agreement.
Click to expand...

I think in essence that hits the button, and obviously depends on clients' honesty thereafter, but it's pointless to try and pass the responsibility to Tesco and their low-wage operatives.
 
Richard King said:
What can Tesco do.. Is the image "out of copyright, is it a pristine image from years ago and out of copyright, is the person presenting the image the photographer?

Thay cant police something that has so many variables. Your beef is with your customer
Click to expand...

Variables? Im suggesting it's not hard to turn over a newly printed photograph and I think they have an obligation to at least try and make it hard for people to copy protected anything
My beef is with tesco procedures and a willingness to aid copyright breach quite so blatantly to make a quick buck
 
cambsno said:
So what else can they do? Check EVERY single pic?

Remember how easy it is to create a letterhead in Word? I could easily knock one up in 5 mins saying I have copyright. Or, I scan in the print at home and take it in - no exif!

Look, at some point in our lives we have all done similar - copied a CD off someone, downloaded something for free, it goes on and will never stop
Click to expand...

So make them knock up a letterhead, people will always try and grab a bargain. All I'm suggesting is tesco can make it a bit harder than opening a free print anything attitude
We may well have copied a cd or whatever, but I've never went to tesco and asked them to blatantly ignore an artists rights and do it for me on high end copying equipment. It might not ever be stopped, but at least try a token effort, no?
 
droj said:
I think in essence that hits the button, and obviously depends on clients' honesty thereafter, but it's pointless to try and pass the responsibility to Tesco and their low-wage operatives.
Click to expand...

I blame tescos policies, not their staff, low or high paid
They protect their own products with cameras, security, scanners etc. Its a simple thing to suggest to a questionable print should require authorisation from the original artist, or at least have a procedure to question it imo
 
BruceMo said:
I blame tescos policies, not their staff, low or high paid
They protect their own products with cameras, security, scanners etc. Its a simple thing to suggest to a questionable print should require authorisation from the original artist, or at least have a procedure to question it imo
Click to expand...

So girl on till says to jo public this photo says copyright in the back do you have permission to copy it? Jo public responds of course I do. What do you expect tesco to do at this point?
 
But looking at it from their point of view what's in it for them to do that - a bunch of peed off customers upset at having their integrity questioned and probably taking the business elsewhere in future.

They ask the customer if they have copyright , its not reasonable to expect every customer to prove it (you imagine what a faff that would make having some prints done for joe public )
 
Punters will also present images to Tesco that are copyright-protected but don't have stickers on the back. You're just opening a worms' nest (but an interesting one!). Relax & be practical - quell the boiling blood!.
 
big soft moose said:
But looking at it from their point of view what's in it for them to do that - a bunch of peed off customers upset at having their integrity questioned and probably taking the business elsewhere in future.

They ask the customer if they have copyright , its not reasonable to expect every customer to prove it (you imagine what a faff that would make having some prints done for joe public )
Click to expand...

What's in it for them? how about being seen as acting responsibly instead of acting like legalised counterfeiters

I think it is resonable to prove it in this circumstance. People are asked to prove who they are, how old, address, why would that upset anyone acting legally?
On that note, I'm going to concede I'm flogging a dead horse. I think I've made my feelings clear, had my little rant and am all happy and warm inside with the world and its non perfection
It is what it is, I just don't agree with the morality of it
 
+1. Agree that the blame should be at Tescos but between yourself and the client.

You have to remember the client's attitude as well as it reflects public opinion - they've paid for something so now they own it (in their own minds). Hence they see nothing wrong with copying it/sending it on etc.

The only choices I see Tesco having are:

- stop any copying/printing processes: the customers lose out, the company loses out and maybe one photographer benefits
- employ a department to verify and check all images for copyrights: how far do they go? Do they search internet sites, books, magazines etc for where the customer might have got the image from? Do they scour through the customer's memory cards? How long should they search for before giving up? How much do you think they would need to charge to cover the costs? It's just not viable.
- carry on as they are
There are only two realistic options: carry on as they are (relying on the customer to tell the truth), or shut down and stop copying/printing facilities. Which do you think they're gonna do?
 
Blaming Tesco for a transgression by someone else, is like blaming BMW for your speeding ticket. Expecting Tesco to implement restrictions would be like BMW limiting your car to 30mph to make sure you complied with the law, bet you wouldn't be happy with that scenario. (Other car manufacturers are available :D)
 
BruceMo said:
What's in it for them? how about being seen as acting responsibly instead of acting like legalised counterfeiters

I think it is resonable to prove it in this circumstance. People are asked to prove who they are, how old, address, why would that upset anyone acting legally?
On that note, I'm going to concede I'm flogging a dead horse. I think I've made my feelings clear, had my little rant and am all happy and warm inside with the world and its non perfection
It is what it is, I just don't agree with the morality of it
Click to expand...

So how exactly does joe public prove he's got the copyright or the right to reproduce

negatives - nope its digital innit
raw files - nope took the shots myself as jpegs mate
letter from the originator - took 'em myself blue, innit

I know you say your shots have a label on the back, but what stops a client sticking a label over yours ? or for that matter scanning them themselves ?

As to why should a law abiding customer be upset at being asked to prove they have the right - because its a big faff and gets in the way of their day (its not like just producing a credit card to prove you are 18 )
 
big soft moose said:
So how exactly does joe public prove he's got the copyright or the right to reproduce

negatives - nope its digital innit
raw files - nope took the shots myself as jpegs mate
letter from the originator - took 'em myself blue, innit

I know you say your shots have a label on the back, but what stops a client sticking a label over yours ? or for that matter scanning them themselves ?

As to why should a law abiding customer be upset at being asked to prove they have the right - because its a big faff and gets in the way of their day (its not like just producing a credit card to prove you are 18 )
Click to expand...

Can you point out where I said my print had a label on it?
 
Steve Smith said:
Our Tesco has a sign prominently displayed at the photo area stating "It is the customer's responsibility to ensure they have the right to have images printed".

If any infringing is being done, it is by the customer requesting the prints, not the company chosen to print them.

Steve.
Click to expand...

Nope. Tesco's are equally culpable, no matter what their disclaimer says. Ignorance (which is effectively what they are claiming) is no defence.
 
Last edited:
Tesco are definitely in the wrong. If there was a will to do something about it they could, but it's easier to pay lip service to copyright by asking the question.

After all to make an effort to protect copyright would take some effort (and cost).
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top