Testing possibly old/expired chemicals

Craigus

Craigus

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Sorry for another of my threads asking seemingly stupid questions, but here goes...

I posted a thread previously about storing chemicals in a hot room and their shelf life. I want to do a bit of developing (black and white) again and have had a look at my chemicals which have been kept in a very dark box but not in very stable temperatures and unused for 8 months or so, not all necesarily properly 'air-tight' either. I have a half used roll of black and white I was going to finish off with the sole purpose of testingif the chems are still okay. Is that pointless?

Will I be able to tell what is okay and what isn't out of the developer, stop or fixer if there were to be a problem? (Ilfosol 3, Ilfostop and Rapid Fixer) Am I better just ditching these and getting new ones?

I have a better more temperature stable storage solution for the future.

EDIT: They are all nearly full in their original bottles, hence the question.
 
You can test developer by immersing a bit of exposed film such as the leader. If it turns black, the dev should do its job (but not necessarily as efficiently as new developer).

You can test your fix in the same way. Dip a piece of undeveloped leader into the fix and note the time taken to clear it. You should fix your film for around double that time.

Edit: your stop will almost certainly be okay. It lasts for ages. Also, if it's an 'indicator stop' like Ilford's, it will turn purple when exhausted.
 
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Craigus said:
Am I better just ditching these and getting new ones?
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Depends how important undeveloped photos are to you!

If you intend to experiment with some snapshots that you won't cry over if you lose them, then have a play with your present chems.

On the other hand, if you want to ensure that you eliminate one of many stages that can ruin a film ( in this case dodgy chems), then buy fresh.

There are already loads of ways to stuff a photograph so why add an additional one…...Not worth the risk imo given that b&w devleoping chemicals aren't expensive ( when compared to the potential loss of film and irreplaceable images)
 
Well in another thread I've revealed that my fixer has been opened for 3 and a half years; it still fixes, but has some floaters and a few other issues. Ilford say you can keep it unopened for 2 years and opened for 6 months, but I suspect there's a lot of wiggle room in that. If you do the clip tests suggested above, you should be fine, but if you want to test with a roll, that's also a good idea.

I add marbles to my developer to exclude air, which improves keeping. John @thedarkshed also pointed this Tetenal spray which he uses successfully, I gather: https://www.ag-photographic.co.uk/tetenal-protectan-spray-1247-p.asp
 
Thanks for the replies. I'll try the dip test but will probably also process a roll as well to help me remember the process. The roll I'll use to test was one that I removed from a camera that I sold of which I'd used 10 shots or so which will now be useless, but can just fire off 20 or so shots round the house to test the chems.

Thanks for the replies, I'll get some marbles too.
 
ChrisR said:
Well in another thread I've revealed that my fixer has been opened for 3 and a half years; it still fixes, but has some floaters and a few other issues. Ilford say you can keep it unopened for 2 years and opened for 6 months, but I suspect there's a lot of wiggle room in that. If you do the clip tests suggested above, you should be fine, but if you want to test with a roll, that's also a good idea.

I add marbles to my developer to exclude air, which improves keeping. John @thedarkshed also pointed this Tetenal spray which he uses successfully, I gather: https://www.ag-photographic.co.uk/tetenal-protectan-spray-1247-p.asp
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I bought a can of that Tetenal spray a couple of years ago. It was really expensive, and when I came to use it for the second time (after about two months), the can was completely empty. It must have slowly leaked my £20 away. :mad:

The marbles sound like a good idea, but just be careful that you use ones made of pure inert glass. There was a thread over on Photrio where someone described how their chemicals had been contaminated by marbles which were obviously not made of pure glass.

I just use PET bottles (fizzy water bottles) and squeeze the air out. I've been doing that with my replenished Xtol for over a year with no issues. Supermarket own-brand water is very inexpensive.
 
FujiLove said:
I bought a can of that Tetenal spray a couple of years ago. It was really expensive, and when I came to use it for the second time (after about two months), the can was completely empty. It must have slowly leaked my £20 away. :mad:
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Which is why I use a can of Air-Duster from Poundland if I need to inert blanket a rigid bottle (it is flammable, but so was Protectan being butane, propane and iso-butane), otherwise PET fizzy bottles work well. Concertina bottles as sold for photochemicals should be consigned to the same landfill as film squegees.
 
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Asha said:
Why?
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Several reasons

a) Usually made of plastic that is more oxygen porous than PET fizzy bottles in order to be able to flex so much. b) The concertina shape exposes a larger surface area of the plastic to the contents increasing possible gas diffusion into contents. c) They are very difficult to clean out. d) The lids often leak air in.

and film squeegees are the Devil's invention. :film:
 
Totally agree about the film squeegies, however we'll have to agree to differ on opinion of the concertina bottles as unlike you I have never experienced any of the issues that you mention and continue to use them to this day, some of which are knocking on in years and function perfectly fine.
 
dmb said:
Concertina bottles as sold for photochemicals should be consigned to the same landfill as film squegees.
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I agree, for medium to long term chemical storage, but they are great for relatively short term storage. I use collapsible bottles to store my paper processing chemicals when I develop with trays. I empty the trays back into the bottles after a printing session and they keep the chemicals in good condition for 7 to 10 days if you squeeze all the air out.

Edit: I'm not using them in preference to PET bottles...I just inherited some collapsible bottles which happen to have wide mouths which makes emptying the trays very easy.
 
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I am using a 5 litre container of fixer as this is the cheapest way of buying it per litre. I'm sure I've had the concentrate opened over a year and I'm not concerned about it. I also use print developer from a 5 litre carton, which again has been opened over a year. If that turns out "bad" I can make another print with fresh developer, whereas obviously you can't redevelop a film.

You can however re-fix a film if the fixer was exhausted, so that's not a disaster; however it's easier to refix if you realise it needs doing before you have cut the negatives into strips, as it's awkward to reload cut strips onto a reel.

For film developer, I have a 1 litre bottle of HC110 which I decanted into 4 * 250ml brown glass bottles so only one is open at a time.

For stop bath I use citric acid which doesn't last long but it only costs a few pence.
 
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Asha said:
Totally agree about the film squeegies, however we'll have to agree to differ on opinion of the concertina bottles as unlike you I have never experienced any of the issues that you mention and continue to use them to this day, some of which are knocking on in years and function perfectly fine.
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I had so many problems with them "leaking air" I gave up and binned them. I cant decide if it was the seals or the plastic itself letting in air.
 
FujiLove said:
I bought a can of that Tetenal spray a couple of years ago. It was really expensive, and when I came to use it for the second time (after about two months), the can was completely empty. It must have slowly leaked my £20 away. :mad:
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Get a can of propane/butane mix from your favourite camping supplier or Asian market, it's the same thing. Use the nozzle from your expired Tetenal, or WD-40.
 
I was about to mix a batch of film fixer as I've been using the current one for several weeks/films. In light of this thread, I actually got round to reading the instructions on the bottle of Ilford Rapid Fixer for a change, and it gives shelf life as 24 months in full airtight bottles, 6 months in half-full tightly capped bottles, and 7 DAYS diluted 1+4. My diluted stuff is in a dark chemical bottle kept sufficiently full that it is awkward to pour, but 7 days seems an awfully short time. :thinking:
 
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Peter B said:
I was about to mix a batch of film fixer as I've been using the current one for several weeks/films. In light of this thread, I actually got round to reading the instructions on the bottle of Ilford Rapid Fixer for a change, and it gives shelf life as 24 months in full airtight bottles, 6 months in half-full tightly capped bottles, and 7 DAYS diluted 1+4. My diluted stuff is in a dark chemical bottle kept sufficiently full that it is awkward to pour, but 7 days seems an awfully short time. :thinking:
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That sounds like Ilford being over-cautious. I keep my film fixer (Rapid Fixer 1+4) in a brown glass bottle, but it's only half filled. I always clip test before using it and fix for double the time it takes to clear the film. It usually lasts for 6 to 8 weeks before the fix time exceeds 5 minutes, at which point I mix a new batch.
 
FujiLove said:
That sounds like Ilford being over-cautious. I keep my film fixer (Rapid Fixer 1+4) in a brown glass bottle, but it's only half filled. I always clip test before using it and fix for double the time it takes to clear the film. It usually lasts for 6 to 8 weeks before the fix time exceeds 5 minutes, at which point I mix a new batch.
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It's one of the black 600ml Jobo bottles I use. I know you can clip test with the leader of 35mm, but it's pretty much been all 120 I've been shooting recently. Do you just cut off the last piece of 120 where the sticky tape is when you put it on the reel and then test that?
 
Peter B said:
7 DAYS diluted
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If that relates to Ilford Rapid fixer then 7 days is a load of b*ll*x.

I mix 1+4 solution , one liter at a time, keep it in a concertina bottle for months at a time.
I dunno how long the longest time I kept it like that and re used the solution until it was without doubt on its way out evident by its foul smell, but it could have been nigh on a year!!

The 5 liter concentrate container, of which remians about 1.5 liters of concentrate was bought in 2009 and is fine!

This shelf life bumph is not unlike food …..folk destroy it cos the date dictates unfit to consume when in fact there's nowt wrong with it.
We never had all this cods wallop when we were nippers and we're still here in "(reasonably) good health!

Bottom line it's a consomation thing and if you fall for it, not only does it cost you more but the waste of it all comes with another cost ….to the planet!
 
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