Hmmmm?I think someone suggested earlier that SC laps shouldn't be counted. That would have resolved this situation.
Are F1 races both laps and/or time limited
Granted, as I also postulatedSo change it.
If there was to have been a final racing lap, Max should have started 12 seconds behind LH which would have at put them back to the situation before the Safety car.
Dave
Probably, but we were only discussing the last race here but if we examined every race there would be many other criticisms particularly about Max's aggressive and dangerous driving.And in Imola, should Hamilton have started a lap and a half behind Max which was the situation before the red flag, you cant have it both ways.
there would be many other criticisms particularly about Max's aggressive and dangerous driving.
Dave
I do not think so. I was watching F1 when Graham Hill was racing and ever since. Years ago when they drove differently and safety was not so important, F1 drivers were regularly killed and injured. I did not think that this was better, We have seen some risky but fair overtakes by drivers like Mark Webber. I also hope that the new designs for 2022 do improve overtaking safely.You must be new to this!
I think the FIA will stop the race director altering the rules the way he didI think the FIA will carry out an investigation though, I think that is inevitable, with a clarification of the safety car rules taking place. Will Masi be replaced? I'm not sure.
And the most dangerous overtake of this season was Hamilton diving up the inside at Silverstone, far worse than anything Max might have done.
I think he still 'hungry enough' to make a further mark. The introduction of the 2022 cars (none too sure of all the changes?) should, it sounds like, reset the playing field, so will as always be a constructor competition but it will the driver(s) who make the difference!Niether Sir Lewis Hamilton or Toto Wolfe will not attend the FIA prize giving ceremony
The rift is deep
Will Sir Lewis return for the 8th title challenge ???
Rather like primary school attitude.Niether Sir Lewis Hamilton or Toto Wolfe will not attend the FIA prize giving ceremony
The rift is deep
Will Sir Lewis return for the 8th title challenge ???
Weeeellll, Lewis Hamilton was 'here' getting his Knighthood only a few days backJust had a thought... If Wolff and Hamilton decide not to attend the ceremony in Paris, could they escape sanction by visiting the UK before the ceremony - IIRC, the French don't want visitors from the UK!
Sorry but what Max does is not like anything that has gone before. He goes into a corner far too hot or comes off the brakes much too soon in order to be ahead at a point in the corner where the "rules" say he has the corner but he has no possible chance of making the corner. Block passing has never been about that, it has always been about cars legitimately being side by side at the corner and the car on the inside deliberately pushing the other car wide. By doing what Max does he is forcing the other car to avoid an accident or receiving damage that could end thier race as he is out of control and there is no deliberate drift to the outside. Where your argument doesnt stack up is that he does the same on the outside and then if he gets pushed wide he technically had the corner and the car on the inside has to yield the place.You must be new to this!
In F1 like every other type of motor racing 4 wheels or 2, there are only 3 overtaking manoeuvre's that are possible. (4 if you count passing while the other is in the pits)
Straight line pass:
You exit the previous corner faster or use slipstream/DRS/more powerful engine and you drive past the person on the straight.
On the outside:
Going into a corner you with more grip/better tyres or in the rain drive around the outside of an oponent, works best in a S bene/chicane where you have the inside for the next corner.
On the inside:
You brake later, dive for the inside and get ahead, often drifting out to the edge of the track to block the person you are passing.
These 3 are the standard overtaking manoeuvre's, they have been used for years and are seen everywhere where vehicles are racing.
The inside block pass has been used since the begining, because it gives the person you have passed 3 options.
1. Drive into you.
2. Lift the throttle.
3. Run off the track.
People like Schumacher, Senna, Mansell, Jones and many others were masters of this manoeuvre.
Sadly now with the outside of every corner having more space than the average car park option 3 is mostly used and even sadder its followed by a radio message claiming "he forced me off the track"!
From what I'm seeing online these days are the new F1 fans, the Hamilton bandwagon or Netflick veiwers who for the last 6 or 7 years have not seen much overtaking and because someone says Max is aggressive they just agree simply because they have never seen anything like it, there has been very little on track action in the last few years.
Watch the last few laps of the 1979 French GP, count how many 5 second penalties would have been given for that. Watch Senna forcing people out of the way, many drivers from his day often said when they saw that yellow helmet in their mirrors they knew he was either coming past or going through them. it was classed as racing, perhaps hard racing but racing none the less. In Moto GP Rossi did the same for many years now Marquez does it again the net is full of snowflakes saying its aggresive!!
Next season with the new cars that are meant to be able to drive closer we are hopefully going to see many more overtakes and with that probably an increase in radio messages claiming they had been forced off. If you dont want to be forced off the track then lift your throttle, your oponent has just passed you suck it up and try and get back at him later in the lap, like F1 used to be. Watch Moto 3, you'll see 30+ Max type overtakes every race and given a motorcycle is more likely to crash in an aggressive overtake that makes it far more dangerous than a F1 overtake, and no one complains they just get on with it.
And the most dangerous overtake of this season was Hamilton diving up the inside at Silverstone, far worse than anything Max might have done.
And i'm neither a Hamilton or Max fan, just a fan of F1 and watching good racing not a sad procession where they all just follow each other around for 90mins
French GP 1979, search youtube, the modern F1 fan would have a fit if that happened these days
yes always hated Safety cars, really unfair, as are red flags the time difference should be maintained.Do away with the safety car, bring the cars back to the grid. No changes to the cars, and then let off with the gap they had before, so in this case, Max would have been released 12 seconds after LH. Couldn't be much fairer than that.
Most race wins in a season, Max champion, happy ?Well it's all over now and the shouting will go on for a long time yet. But how anyone could claim a race win let alone win a World Title under such circumstances is staggering.
I thought such shenanigans had been left behind in the Schumacher/Ferrari era.
The only honourable thing to do would be to declare the race null and void now and award the win to be decided by a method that cannot be manipulated by any person or organisation associated with F1.
Just my neutral opinion of course.
If this last race was cancelled then Yes, even thought this year's series is badly tarnished by incompetent officials.Most race wins in a season, Max champion, happy ?
Cant blame Sir Lewis if he jacks it in especially after Sulayem's comment at the ceremony " "At the end of the day, rules are rules" If he was thinking of retiring before the last race I am sure he is giving it serious thought now
It gets even more dodgy than you can ever imagine. Bernie Ecclestone's wife (Bernie made some very nasty comments about Lewis at the weekend) was involved in the presidential campaign of Sulayem and has now been confirmed as the new VP of FIA South America. Ecclestone is on very good terms with Mr Horner of Red Bull.Cant blame Sir Lewis if he jacks it in especially after Sulayem's comment at the ceremony " "At the end of the day, rules are rules" If he was thinking of retiring before the last race I am sure he is giving it serious thought now
He may have a bob or two in loose change to pay thatHis contract is worth too much to jack in and walk away. And he'll have to pay some compensation too.
Yup - think it’s likely that Lewis and Mercedes will be looking to stuff it right up Red Bull, Horner and the FIA next year. They’re not exactly known for not having a competitive streakHis contract is worth too much to jack in and walk away. And he'll have to pay some compensation too. I would like to think that he has had a discussion with the Mercedes team and said "Give me everything we have next year, and I'll be more than happy to support George the year after." That would give him an 8th title, that's what he wants, and I know that Mercedes have done a great deal of development on the new car, while Red Bull threw everything at this year.
It gets even more dodgy than you can ever imagine. Bernie Ecclestone's wife (Bernie made some very nasty comments about Lewis at the weekend) was involved in the presidential campaign of Sulayem and has now been confirmed as the new VP of FIA South America. Ecclestone is on very good terms with Mr Horner of Red Bull.
Ecclestone confirms wife in running for FIA role
Bernie Ecclestone has admitted he could slide back into an influential position in Formula 1.www.grandprix.com
Ecclestone suggests Lewis Hamilton didn't deserve knighthood in scathing attack
Bernie Ecclestone suggested Sir Lewis Hamilton wasn't deserving of his knighthood after the seven-time F1 champion was honoured earlier this week, just days after heartbreak at the Abu Dhabi GP.www.mirror.co.uk
He may have a bob or two in loose change to pay that
plus there may well be a clause in the contract you never know
I hope he races and merc give him a ground effect car that blows the rest off but that would mean the rules would then be altered to make the "show" a spectacular
As for Bernie well I remember the lets spray water on the track for a few more crashes to liven things up
I used to like Bernie but have read the above link, I am horrified. I understand how the very dedicated Max fans may think that Max won according to the rules, but cannot see how Bernie could support that position. Unless the FIA make significant changes I may give up watching F1 as there is little point if races are decided on the whim of an individual official. Of course, if Lewis retires, Russell could give Max some real competition next season.
Dave
It was actually ferrari international aid FIAC wasn't the FIA given another "name" re: Ferrari Support Service.....
PS in general I have been happier watching F1 since such 'bias' became less obvious........