The Formula 1 / IndyCar Thread

Max clearly through some important toys out of the pram, perhaps the one marked 'do not unplug' for example.

I thought he might have matured over the break but he's already telling the team he won't follow orders and it's the first race.

Nice to see Ferrari back, we just need Merc to find some speed and we can have a really good season with three teams battling.

Saddened by Maclaren's performance though.
 
I'm anything but a Ferrari fan but it's good to see them back at the sharp end and I do like the new colour! I suppose their Marlboro funding must have finished...
 
moggi1964 said:
Max clearly through some important toys out of the pram, perhaps the one marked 'do not unplug' for example.

I thought he might have matured over the break but he's already telling the team he won't follow orders and it's the first race.

Nice to see Ferrari back, we just need Merc to find some speed and we can have a really good season with three teams battling.

Saddened by Maclaren's performance though.
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Unfortunately/sadly, Max is behaving like a spoilt brat. Not a good look really.

I have some sympathy for Red Bull in that failure in the closing laps must be truly gut wrenching for any team. However, I just read elsewhere that they did not run low fuel or full fuel-race distance during testing. If that’s true, then given for this year there is a new fuel, new aero package, new wheels and tyres, new brakes etc etc., their complacency has reached new heights and has bitten them in the rear end.
 
They say that the lift pump electronics , which is standard to all teams made by marellie (or some such name), failed in both red bulls
Gasley's fire was the oil cooling for the mgku unit making a break for freedom and igniting
All teams instead of going to parc ferm after qualifying were scrutinised for the pump after a warning of a defect was possable and allowed to change if any defects found , mclarean changed theirs red bull didnt, this pump lives in the bottom of the fuel tank and its associated electronics are surrounded by a protective layer to protect it from the E10 fuel
It appears this layer breaks down over a time period and then its goodnight for the pump
Wicked stuff this E10
Its nice to see Ferrari with a turn of speed lets hope its not like last time when it was south of the regs
 
Was a good race... had it's ups and downs like many. Max Vs Leclerc was great to watch but did look like the definition of insanity. Try the same overtake time and time again, expect a different result... As a professional armchair racer I would've liked to have seen him tuck in behind Charles in T1 and try an overtake into T4. His mistake, locking up, left him too far back to challenge again but all ultimately was for nothing with the DNF.

Was great to see Ferrari not only putting on a great show on track but equally on the pit wall making great decisions. Something that's been lacking the last few seasons.
 
Nod said:
I'm anything but a Ferrari fan but it's good to see them back at the sharp end and I do like the new colour! I suppose their Marlboro funding must have finished...
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Yes, and Mission Winnow, up in smoke Nod :ROFLMAO:
 
fuzzyedges said:
They say that the lift pump electronics , which is standard to all teams made by marellie (or some such name), failed in both red bulls
Gasley's fire was the oil cooling for the mgku unit making a break for freedom and igniting
All teams instead of going to parc ferm after qualifying were scrutinised for the pump after a warning of a defect was possable and allowed to change if any defects found , mclarean changed theirs red bull didnt, this pump lives in the bottom of the fuel tank and its associated electronics are surrounded by a protective layer to protect it from the E10 fuel
It appears this layer breaks down over a time period and then its goodnight for the pump
Wicked stuff this E10
Its nice to see Ferrari with a turn of speed lets hope its not like last time when it was south of the regs
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OMG, they are made by Magneti Marelli, who used to do a lot of electrical items for Alfa road cars back in the day, as I remember - they had a certain "reputation".

www.autosport.com

The background behind Red Bull's Bahrain DNFs

www.autosport.com www.autosport.com
 
andya700 said:
OMG, they are made by Magneti Marelli, who used to do a lot of electrical items for Alfa road cars back in the day, as I remember - they had a certain "reputation".

www.autosport.com

The background behind Red Bull's Bahrain DNFs

www.autosport.com www.autosport.com
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Magnetti-Marelli have made car electronics for multiple brands for years. When I was an apprentice (1978) they made the fuel pumps for Hillman cars.
 
Another theory is one of cooling That the intermediate pump in the collecter cavitated and air locked due to low fuel (near end of race) and stuck behind safety car creating excessive heat. It was said they never had this trouble with E5
It does point to fuel related symptons Marko is saying its not an RB fault pointing towards a SSC (standard supply componant) like the collector/ intermediate pump or its associated pipe work and the high pressure pump although they may buy in the primer pumps that pump the fuel to the collector that arnt SSC
Anyhows if the collector pump has cavitated and air locked then thats curtains for the high pressure pump
 
Great bit of video


View: https://BANNED/kkirkwoodracing/status/1506077331445624833?s=21
 
Each to their own guys, but I love the superspeedways (which hardly feature in IndyCar these days).
 
andya700 said:
Well, all they are doing is overtaking slower cars without having to use any racecraft - a bit boring honestly. Not one racing manouvre.
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Incredibly ignorant comment. Racing at an average speed of 200+ MPH, within inches of other open wheel cars, squeezing every bit of speed out of the car takes a lot of skill, balls and race craft. It's a different discipline to that of formula 1, yes, but by no means any less of a feat.

There's a reason Grosjean wouldn't even go near an oval at first. Yes it may be less exciting for Europeans to watch, our American cousins are a little more easily entertained but still no grounds to dismiss the skill of the drivers.
 
Jakemico AE-1P said:
Incredibly ignorant comment. Racing at an average speed of 200+ MPH, within inches of other open wheel cars, squeezing every bit of speed out of the car takes a lot of skill, balls and race craft. It's a different discipline to that of formula 1, yes, but by no means any less of a feat.

There's a reason Grosjean wouldn't even go near an oval at first. Yes it may be less exciting for Europeans to watch, our American cousins are a little more easily entertained but still no grounds to dismiss the skill of the drivers.
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But this does show that with a very fast car, you can overtake those with less power. It's a bit like the guy in his RS3 that bombs down the straights, but you overtake him on every bend (I've done a few track days like that, especially on bikes).
 
I do watch IndyCar, but not often. Certainly takes a lot of bottle on the super speedways. There’s no doubt the drivers can drive.

Prefer F1 and WEC myself.
 
Jelster said:
But this does show that with a very fast car, you can overtake those with less power. It's a bit like the guy in his RS3 that bombs down the straights, but you overtake him on every bend (I've done a few track days like that, especially on bikes).
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Im fairly sure the cars are near identical. Same chassis, same engine. It comes down to fine margins on speedways, it takes immense concentration to run for hours, making every input through the steering wheel count to scrub as little speed off as possible lap after lap. It’s not to my taste but no doubting the bottle and talent.

I’ve been in similar situations on track days. I used to track my mini. Granted it was highly modified for such occasions but it would show up cars vastly superior, even around power circuits like Goodwood and Spa.
 

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Jelster said:
But this does show that with a very fast car, you can overtake those with less power. It's a bit like the guy in his RS3 that bombs down the straights, but you overtake him on every bend (I've done a few track days like that, especially on bikes).
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As it said in the title, it was a restart, and he nailed it. All cars are the same Dallara chassis, the engine will be a Honda or Chevrolet
 
Watching this race live was massively exciting. Remember these guys are lapping at over 220mph. It takes skill and precision to race like that.


View: https://youtu.be/gv8KNya9aeA




I remember sitting on the edge of my seat during the opening laps of the race at the Las Vegas Super Speedway in 2011 because the closeness of the racing and the speed was insane.
Sadly it ended in Dan Wheldon’s death.
 
Jakemico AE-1P said:
Incredibly ignorant comment. Racing at an average speed of 200+ MPH, within inches of other open wheel cars, squeezing every bit of speed out of the car takes a lot of skill, balls and race craft. It's a different discipline to that of formula 1, yes, but by no means any less of a feat.

There's a reason Grosjean wouldn't even go near an oval at first. Yes it may be less exciting for Europeans to watch, our American cousins are a little more easily entertained but still no grounds to dismiss the skill of the drivers.
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Not "ignorant" at all, thanks for the direct insult. That driver was going past cars as if they were standing still on straights and banked bends, he never once changed his driving line - boring. I don't doubt you need a lot of bottle to race at those speeds, but his car was significantly quicker than the others.
 
Jakemico AE-1P said:
Im fairly sure the cars are near identical. Same chassis, same engine. It comes down to fine margins on speedways, it takes immense concentration to run for hours, making every input through the steering wheel count to scrub as little speed off as possible lap after lap. It’s not to my taste but no doubting the bottle and talent.

I’ve been in similar situations on track days. I used to track my mini. Granted it was highly modified for such occasions but it would show up cars vastly superior, even around power circuits like Goodwood and Spa.
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Track days in Mini's are fun. My modified F54 Clubbie is a hoot on track. 275bhp, 4 wheel drive..... Pretty good fun on the local country lanes too :LOL:
 
Jelster said:
Track days in Mini's are fun. My modified F54 Clubbie is a hoot on track. 275bhp, 4 wheel drive..... Pretty good fun on the local country lanes too :LOL:
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Too true! Sussex Road & Race built mine, had Manic Motorsport tune it back when they were going. Was great fun but a money pit. 330bhp and three engine rebuilds later… sold it and miss it every day!
 
2022 FORMULA 1 STC SAUDI ARABIAN GRAND PRIX

GL43lpw.png


Jeddah Corniche Circuit
Lap data
Circuit length 6.174km
Corners 27
DRS zones 3
Race distance 50 laps

UK Times
Friday 25th March 2022
Free Practice 1: 14.00
Free Practice 2: 17.00
Saturday 26th March 2022
Free Practice 3: 12.00
Qualifying: 17.00
Sunday 27th March 2022
Grand Prix: 18.00

Previous Winners
2021 United Kingdom Lewis Hamilton Mercedes


Videos

Hamilton's pole lap 2021
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugJ-rYS-9JU


Standings
3Q6QtyV.png


GjfaUOE.png
 
So RBR's problem appears to be a vapour lock caused by high temps and low fuel
They have probably solved this in the blend of e10

On a side note what i didnt know was the fuel i buy at the pump isnt the same through out the year and is altered to suit the seasons, probably not by much but enough to trouble classic cars with vapour locking
The British Standard BS EN228 sets out the following vapour pressure grades and dates:

​
SpringSales of petrol between 16 April and 31 May45–100 kPa, VLI limit
SummerSales of petrol between 1 June and 31 Aug45–70 kPa
AutumnSales of petrol between 1 Sept and 15 Oct45–100 kPa, VLI limit
WinterSales of petrol between 16 Oct and 15 April70-100 kPa


Whilst a range of volatility is allowed with each season, the reality is that due to manufacturing limitations and production cost issues, the volatility will always be close to the upper limit in the summer and winter from all suppliers.

If RBR had only waited 5 minutes it would have turned back to liquid and all would have been okay HoHo
 
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fuzzyedges said:
So RBR's problem appears to be a vapour lock caused by high temps and low fuel
They have probably solved this in the blend of e10

On a side note what i didnt know was the fuel i buy at the pump isnt the same through out the year and is altered to suit the seasons, probably not by much but enough to trouble classic cars with vapour locking
The British Standard BS EN228 sets out the following vapour pressure grades and dates:

​
SpringSales of petrol between 16 April and 31 May45–100 kPa, VLI limit
SummerSales of petrol between 1 June and 31 Aug45–70 kPa
AutumnSales of petrol between 1 Sept and 15 Oct45–100 kPa, VLI limit
WinterSales of petrol between 16 Oct and 15 April70-100 kPa


Whilst a range of volatility is allowed with each season, the reality is that due to manufacturing limitations and production cost issues, the volatility will always be close to the upper limit in the summer and winter from all suppliers.

If RBR had only waited 5 minutes it would have turned back to liquid and all would have been okay HoHo
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Yes, commercial fuels in the UK are formulated to account for seasonal ambient conditions. There is more ‘front end’ material in winter fuels than there is in summer fuels. This is for improved cold start performance in the winter. Winter fuels have too much front end for summer, especially for engines that have been sat in a traffic jam under the sunshine or sat out in the sun on a car park for a while whilst shopping.

In F1, engines don‘t do cold starts, so they tend to be formulated to account for that. They may also choose different formulations depending on the demands of the circuit with Monaco being at one end and Monza being and example of the other end. E10 just isn’t very helpful.
 
hooties claimed responsability
Didnt somthing like this happen a couple of years back ?
 
mav said:
well done to Max great race yesterday , hard luck for Checo . Looking to be a great Season
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Yes, some excellent racing yesterday. Just need a few other teams to up their pace a little to have more competition for the podium.
 
mav said:
well done to Max great race yesterday , hard luck for Checo . Looking to be a great Season
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Seems to be a different Max this year which I am a fan of. After the rule changes and driving standards clarifications which, let's be honest, targeted his driving, maybe he has swallowed a humble pill and taken it onboard. Max Vs Leclerc will make for an exciting battle!
 
Jakemico AE-1P said:
Seems to be a different Max this year which I am a fan of. After the rule changes and driving standards clarifications which, let's be honest, targeted his driving, maybe he has swallowed a humble pill and taken it onboard. Max Vs Leclerc will make for an exciting battle!
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Au contraire. All that's happened is that the DNF in round 1 has focussed his attention. If/when he is leading the championship, and when his rival is trying to overtake, then - and only then - will we see if he's grown up. I hope he has.
 
goldtop said:
Au contraire. All that's happened is that the DNF in round 1 has focussed his attention. If/when he is leading the championship, and when his rival is trying to overtake, then - and only then - will we see if he's grown up. I hope he has.
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I agree I dont think he has changed he had at least three winges when the Ferrari was leading and catching up
He is well suited at Red Bull with Marko and Horner
 
fuzzyedges said:
I agree I dont think he has changed he had at least three winges when the Ferrari was leading and catching up
He is well suited at Red Bull with Marko and Horner
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I understand the whinging... it's not great to see but it's part of the gamesmanship. Same as Sainz & Perez at the safety car line. Everyone wants to gain as much as possible and if that involves calling out an opponent at every opportunity, they will.

What I did not like, is RedBull only switching Perez behind Sainz after the restart, it was tactical to avoid Sainz gaining on Max and should have switched places before the re-start to be fair.
 
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