The universal trigger interface (The little box)

[incapete]

Just re-reading a bit of this... My thoughts are that sticking with the 602 wireless flash trigger might be a better option since so many people already have these so the unit would work straight away with these, I've not really seen anyone with 603's yet.

 

[cowasaki]

Just re-reading a bit of this... My thoughts are that sticking with the 602 wireless flash trigger might be a better option since so many people already have these so the unit would work straight away with these, I've not really seen anyone with 603's yet.

There is going to be a low and high voltage switch socket. You can plug the low voltage socket into EITHER so it can work with both or even a completely different one.

 

[incapete]

There is going to be a low and high voltage switch socket. You can plug the low voltage socket into EITHER so it can work with both or even a completely different one.

Ah, cool! I'll just shut up then and leave you to get on with the inventing!

 

[DrRusty]

Question........

Would people be interested IF you could buy a box complete and fully assembled for £119 that:

Includes PSU
Has digital LCD display for delay and trigger time.
Acts as a remote with focus and trigger buttons.
Has lead to connect to YOUR camera.
Works as a time lapse box
Includes small beam breaker module
Includes alarm connection (to main box)
Includes sound module
Has battery connection internally
Has RF603 output connection
Will fire 2 x 500V external flash units
Possibly includes IR remote control (to adjust timings, focus and trigger)

What you people think?

Would you prefer something at maybe £80 that has a switch to select the ranges and a knob that you turn for speed but with NO visible display to show the speed?

Whilst the option to buy a kit all in, I would welcome the possibility of just buying the "brain" and then choose the sensors separately. If you can get it all in and programmable for £135 that would be very reasonable.

 

[Alastair]

I'm not familiar with the technical connections of assembling a device like this, but with the RF-602/3 question. Could the connection not be a universal hotshoe mount? The user could then slide on their trigger of choice. Similarly for a receiver module if required, with either a hotshoe or coldshoe/jackplug.

 

[cowasaki]

I'm not familiar with the technical connections of assembling a device like this, but with the RF-602/3 question. Could the connection not be a universal hotshoe mount? The user could then slide on their trigger of choice. Similarly for a receiver module if required, with either a hotshoe or coldshoe/jackplug.

There will be two sockets, you could plug one of these into the high power socket.

 

[coldpenguin]

I have two options for the LCD screen, 2 lines of 16 characters OR a full graphical screen 128x64 pixels which will allow all the variables to be seen at the same time ie
.....
Offering both options is a possibility BUT it means 2 sets of code and a possible overall delay........

One thing that would possibly assist on that, is to write the code and use/create a graphical/output library. That way, the main code would be consistent between the two LCDs, and you would only need to #define in the correct library for the extra space/capability of the graphical LCD. They are nice devices though, I have a couple of 128x64 (white on blue backlit), and a 64x32 (black on green).

The cost of the item obviously is dependant on the cost of parts. I can buy a remote control and the extra components to read it for under £10 which is universal but has 0-9, mode, on/off etc buttons on it.

Adding buttons to the box for up/down between the variables, left right across their values plus + and - makes building it much more time consuming but also it will take longer to change the values. Adding about 15 buttons so you get 0-9 will increase the cost of the box and getting so many buttons lined up correctly will be difficult so it will look homemade (unless I have them made which increases the cost)

QUESTION: Would people be happier with a nice clean box with fewer buttons and a remote control to do all the settings etc or would they prefer to pay more?

I think using the remote will be the best option myself.

Either has their uses, I was looking into a way of using a light beam trigger for birds. What would be good, is a remote control capable of pausing/blocking a trigger in this situation.

I'm using the Atmel 1280

If you haven't already invested in the microchip and programmer, then Microchip do a product called PIC, which is very popular, relatively cheap, and can be more than powerful enough for up to roboticsm automation and similar tasks.

Whilst the option to buy a kit all in, I would welcome the possibility of just buying the "brain" and then choose the sensors separately. If you can get it all in and programmable for £135 that would be very reasonable.

Yes, optional sensors etc. additions would be good. Then you need to consider though a limited number of ports for the sensors, or putting the sensors onto some sort of bus with identification. Dallas 1-wire might be suitable for that, depending on how fast a trigger should be noted (if I remember right, dallas 1-wire runs at 'super speed' 1.5MHz, up to 30m)

On the key/entry side of things, a 12-key matrix used to be ~£2 (number 0-9, and # *) only requires a few pins (multiplexed), and 4 screws (one in each corner) to attach to a device.

Edit:
Wow, gone up in price, but still, is easy to implement (and if you buy elsewhere in 'bulk' would probably be cheaper)
http://www.maplin.co.uk/numeric-press-button-keypad-220344

 

[cowasaki]

Thanks everyone.

The reason I am including ALL the sensors in the original package is that it costs dramatically less to add the sensor circuitry onto the main board than supply a separate box with the sensor in it.

The current idea is a sensor port which will be a 25way D port. All the sensors will plug into that and the standard ones can be auto detected by the box. The use of a 25 way D port allows about 10 data lines plus the trigger lines and power lines to be taken outside. This will allow all manner of new triggers which can be build to a particular need even by third parties who might want to build for it. I will supply port out diagrams and give help to people building their own sensors.

The ability to turn the output on and off has already occurred to me because whilst you are setting the sensitivity of the sensor it will be firing over and over, so this is already built into the specification and will be controlled by the remote control.

I have also thought about extra products later such as a wired version of the remote control for Wail who might want to use it in very bright sunlight. Thinking about what is needed later makes designing the circuitry and connections really important now.

As for PIC I like the 1280 as the programming language is very similar to languages I have already used and there is a programming environment for the Mac and Linux.

If I decide on the larger screen (which is likely) rather than the smaller one then once I start buying 25+ screens the price difference is going to get smaller. Also the ability to use graphics is nice!

As for a keyboard matrix, I have found one in China for a reasonable price but have decided now on the IR remote. This also gives me the option to use an IR output from the main box to fire cameras with IR triggers built in (or third party ones).

Lots of ideas going through my head and I also think a USB port is going to be happening for software updates.

 

[srichards]

Sounds amazing! Been wondering about taking pics of the birds going to and fro to the feeder. Thought a beam breaker would be ideal.

Some chap on the one show showed something similar with beam breakers and some heath robinson to do bats but he had to fire the camera himself as the beam breaker only fired a flash unit.

An all in one solution that would fire flashes and camera with sensor input or that would fire with a remote control for studio work would be ideal.

 

[cowasaki]

Sounds amazing! Been wondering about taking pics of the birds going to and fro to the feeder. Thought a beam breaker would be ideal.

Some chap on the one show showed something similar with beam breakers and some heath robinson to do bats but he had to fire the camera himself as the beam breaker only fired a flash unit.

An all in one solution that would fire flashes and camera with sensor input or that would fire with a remote control for studio work would be ideal.

With this you could use an alarm system PIR movement detector, beam breaker, LASER beam breaker, sound, touch pad, pressure sensor or whatever and fire the shutter and flash at whatever delays you want based on the input. In fact the prototype sat here on breadboard would do all that. It is firing the camera and outputs for the RF602 (which fires the studio light).

With the digital version you will be able to specify say take 8 shots 0.2 of a second apart when you get the input.

More stuff to do over the next few days and that will be the analogue version totally complete although as I said it is working now!

Just waiting on John getting better, he has to water droplet stuff, i've been using a syringe

 

[Wail]

<snip>

I have also thought about extra products later such as a wired version of the remote control for Wail who might want to use it in very bright sunlight. Thinking about what is needed later makes designing the circuitry and connections really important now.

<snip>

Thank you

 

[cowasaki]

I was having a think about it and for the difference in cost ie 50p I have decided to make both the flash output ports high voltage to avoid any possible problems. Because the flash ports will have their own timer I am using a relay to switch them which gives complete isolation whilst allowing up to 500V flash voltage!

If anyone wants to know about these things look at these two threads:

Flash trigger voltages

Repairing RF602 triggers

 

[tijuana taxi]

This sounds very interesting and way above my head electronically, but what exactly does it do (got a rough idea I think) and would it be compatible with a Hahnel Giga pro wireless trigger

 

[cowasaki]

This sounds very interesting and way above my head electronically, but what exactly does it do (got a rough idea I think) and would it be compatible with a Hahnel Giga pro wireless trigger

The device will trigger a camera plus flashes and or radio triggers when an outside physical thing happens such as: water droplet, noise, movement etc. The actual triggering can be delayed so that you get a picture of something happening etc the water splash.

What you need appears to be a way of triggering a high voltage flash using newer kit. If this is the case then I am thinking of selling such a device at some point. At the moment I have a modified RF602 receiver which will trigger an older device. I built it but don't use it! Something like that might be useful if you use RF602s

 

[Kaouthia]

Presumably these would be sold as DIY self-build kits. Wouldn't you need full CE testing and approval to sell completed pre-built units?

 

[tijuana taxi]

Thanks for the explanation, was looking for something like a motion sensor or infra red beam trigger
Sounds like this could be the very thing, not really interested in the flash side of things, had wildlife work in mind

My current wireless trigger is just that and wanted something that would work automatically so will follow your project with some interest (if I have got it right now)

 

[cowasaki]

Presumably these would be sold as DIY self-build kits. Wouldn't you need full CE testing and approval to sell completed pre-built units?

The psu will be bought and supplied in their own packaging. The universal trigger will be assembled

 

[Kaouthia]

The psu will be bought and supplied in their own packaging. The universal trigger will be assembled

It may still, legally, require CE approval. Even USB powered devices, like the Arduino, and electronic devices that don't have external power inputs, like pocket calculators, require CE approval.

The penalties for not doing it and selling finished products can be quite stiff. So, it'd be worth double checking if your trigger needs it in order to be sold as a complete unit.

 

[emyllis]

I'd be interested in this too! Signing up to keep an eye on future updates...

 

[cowasaki]

It may still, legally, require CE approval. Even USB powered devices, like the Arduino, and electronic devices that don't have external power inputs, like pocket calculators, require CE approval.

The penalties for not doing it and selling finished products can be quite stiff. So, it'd be worth double checking if your trigger needs it in order to be sold as a complete unit.

I have checked and The EC directives for CE marking affect the following product groups:

Active implantable medical devices
Appliances burning gaseous fuels
Cableway installations designed to carry persons
Eco-design of energy related products
Electromagnetic compatibility
Equipment and protective systems intended for use potentially explosive atmospheres
Explosives for civil uses
Hot-water boilers
In vitro diagnostic medical devices
Lifts
Low voltage
Machinery
Measuring Instruments
Medical devices
Noise emission in the environment
Non-automatic weighing instruments
Personal protective equipment
Pressure equipment
Pyrotechnics
Radio and telecommunications terminal equipment
Recreational craft
Safety of toys
Simple pressure vessels

None of these applies to my product other than, you would think, "Low voltage" BUT if you check the relevant directive this line appears:

The LVD ensures that electrical equipment within certain voltage limits both provides a high level of protection for European citizens and enjoys a Single Market in the European Union. The Directive covers electrical equipment with a voltage between 50 and 1000 V for alternating current and between 75 and 1500 V for direct current. It should be noted that these voltage ratings refer to the voltage of the electrical input or output, not to voltages that may appear inside the equipment. For most electrical equipment, the health aspects of emissions of Electromagnetic Fields are also under the domain of the Low Voltage Directive.

Mine is 9V input.....

I will speak to my contacts at trading standards but I can't see how it would apply to me or even some of the things you mentioned unless I have got the wrong end of the stick!

 

[Kaouthia]

I will speak to my contacts at trading standards but I can't see how it would apply to me or even some of the things you mentioned unless I have got the wrong end of the stick!

I've always thought that too, but when you look at some of the items all around that have the CE logo on them (that you wouldn't think were covered by the list above), it makes you wonder.

Just on my desk... computer keyboard, iPhone, Casio scientific calculator, USB hard drives (2 different brands, neither of which require external power).

I will be very pleased if you're right, as it gives me hope for a couple of projects I've been working on.

 

[Darkroom]

Have you considered you will most likely have to offer 12 months warranty if you are selling them? No matter how well you build them some will fail and you'll have to replace them at your expense.

 

[Byker28i]

Lets not try to have too much negative stuff chaps. This is true british invention at work. I've got an image of cowaski at work, in a little shed at the bottom of the garden , a patient partner bringing him cups of tea in a chipped mug...

I'd love to see the final product. It'll open up so many more avenues for me that at the moment I'm trying to time myself.

 

[arad85]

I have checked and The EC directives for CE marking affect the following product groups:

Active implantable medical devices
Appliances burning gaseous fuels
Cableway installations designed to carry persons
Eco-design of energy related products
Electromagnetic compatibility
Equipment and protective systems intended for use potentially explosive atmospheres
Explosives for civil uses
Hot-water boilers
In vitro diagnostic medical devices
Lifts
Low voltage
Machinery
Measuring Instruments
Medical devices
Noise emission in the environment
Non-automatic weighing instruments
Personal protective equipment
Pressure equipment
Pyrotechnics
Radio and telecommunications terminal equipment
Recreational craft
Safety of toys
Simple pressure vessels

None of these applies to my product other than, you would think, "Low voltage" BUT if you check the relevant directive this line appears:

You still need to have EMC compatibility though. Anything with a processor in it can emit e-m waves and can affect other equipment. That's why things such as Set-Top Boxes with wall-wart power supplies still need EC approval... For example, my 7dayshop battery charger (which is 12V 1.8A DC) has a CE marker on it (was the easiest thing close to hand).

I think you can get around this by selling it as a kit of parts. Up to you how "kit like" it is IIRC (but don't quote me on that ).

 

[Kaouthia]

Lets not try to have too much negative stuff chaps. This is true british invention at work.

Aye, but Europe doesn't like British invention without getting their chunk these days.

 

[cowasaki]

The product will be sold fully assembled and IF it needs a CE mark I will put one on it. I have designed and built computer peripherals in the past so it is not a major problem. The builder checks for compliance and sticks the CE label on keeping the paperwork to show compliance in a safe place. Like I said I will speak to the experts and if it needs doing I will do it. I will also give a warranty with the item.

Lets not forget that it isn't even built yet. The analogue version is at the fully working prototype stage but I still have to wait till the end of the month before I can afford the parts to start the digital version!

 

[Byker28i]

The spec looks really good. Like a Camera Axe on Steroids

 

[CGeezer]

Glad that all my pestering helped this hi-tech piece of kit to be created. Darren you are a genius and although I'm still in ICU I can't wait to catch up when I'm released

 

[CGeezer]

Just spent the last two hours thinking of a page of other uses. One involves bringing it to the hospital so I can see it

 

[cowasaki]

Just spent the last two hours thinking of a page of other uses. One involves bringing it to the hospital so I can see it

I don't know

How long are you going to be in there sleeping whilst I do all the work

 

[CGeezer]

Haha I'm fast tracking as we speak. The nurses would like me to slow down a little but i said 'sorry I have to practice soldering my toast

 

[cowasaki]

Haha I'm fast tracking as we speak. The nurses would like me to slow down a little but i said 'sorry I have to practice soldering my toast

I'm just hoping that it isn't the soldering that is setting off your asthma!

 

[cowasaki]

This device is turning into a complete camera control computer! I have just been working out how I can control pan and tilt using stepper motors and technically zoom too I can think of lots of optional extras to add to it later.

 

[Wail]

Glad that all my pestering helped this hi-tech piece of kit to be created. Darren you are a genius and although I'm still in ICU I can't wait to catch up when I'm released

ICU .. by the sound of it, you ought to be looking at sexy nurses while being kept high on morphine

 

[Wail]

This device is turning into a complete camera control computer! I have just been working out how I can control pan and tilt using stepper motors and technically zoom too I can think of lots of optional extras to add to it later.

I guess, then, it shouldn't be too hard to add a couple of wings, a rudder, a small jet engine and we'd have a Predator killer

Back to being serious, I can't wait to see what this camera-devil can do .

 

[cowasaki]

Woohoo, ordered the development board yesterday and after having a blazing row with the post office because the posty put a note through the door saying sorry you were out when we weren't she returned......

Within 1 minute I had the board attached to the macbook pro and had LEDs flashing on it

Anyway I also received a graphical display and more components today too. Hopefully I will have an INTELLIGENT prototype running in a week or so.

I have sorted out the ports and AT THE MOMENT the full specification will be:

Display

Full graphical 128 x 64 backlit blue display with white writing


Buttons

Power
Override
Focus
Trigger


Ports

2 x 6.35mm mono jack sockets - which will be high OR low voltage flash connectors (you can plug a 6.35mm to PC sync cable OR 6.35mm to 3.5mm cable to a studio flash OR 6.35mm to flash hot shoe adapter OR a radio remote like the RF602/RF603 as an OUTPUT into this)

1 x 3.5 or 2.5mm stereo jack socket - which you can plug a jack to nikon/canon/sony etc remote into (if I use a 2.5mm socket then people can just buy RF603 camera leads)

1 x 25way D socket - this will connect to one of the trigger boxes ie beam break, sound, alarm or user (using 4 pins as an index allows the device to know what trigger is attached automatically)

1 x USB - for firmware updates

1 x DC power socket

1 x 9way D socket - This is for connection to an external keypad to use instead of the remote (for use in bright sunlight etc)

Display is going to be the gorgeous 128 x 64 graphical display


Included:

PSU
Remote control - Allows control of the units functions plus focus and trigger
Sound board - Triggers unit on sounds (can be swapped for alarm or user board)
Beam board - Triggers unit on beam being broken
Camera cable - One camera cable to Nikon, Canon type 1 or 2, Sony etc.....


Options:

Real time clock - Saves having to set the clock when you switch on if you are doing time lapse etc.
External keypad - Recreates the functions of the remote control
User trigger board - Allows people to build their own trigger creations.
Alarm board - Allows people to hook up the box to house alarm sensors for things like pressure pads, PIRs, reed switches etc.
LASER board - For long distance beam breaking - Will have to check on this one for safety etc
Extra camera cables
Lighting trigger cables
PIRs
Reed switches
Pressure switches
Alarm cable etc
USB cable - only needed to reprogram the unit with new software
Water drop dispensers
Battery operation
Internal RF602 trigger as an INPUT (channel selectable via menu system and powered from main box)
Internal RF603 trigger as an INPUT (may be as above but not got one yet to disassemble!)

 

[SimonTALM]

One to keep an eye on

 

[CGeezer]

That is excellent news Darren, looks like I will be home in a couple of days and I am looking forward to catching up and sharing some other ideas for uses with you!

 

[cowasaki]

That is excellent news Darren, looks like I will be home in a couple of days and I am looking forward to catching up and sharing some other ideas for uses with you!

I am off on Thursday and Friday, I will be playing with it then.

 

[Wail]

Excellent

Can I ask, what do you mean by "Options"? Are these features possible for future upgrades, or currently available as an optional extra, and if so, what does it entail to have them built-in (mostly interested in the three ... Real Time Clock; Water Drop Dispensers
; and Battery Operation)?