The Vuescan discussion thread...

Messages
3,734
Name
droj
Edit My Images
No
#41
Vuescan does have curves, choose them in the Prefs tab... I'm getting better at using them now.
Yes but they're not so fully featured ... you can't place points & shove them about like in Photoshop - can you?
 
OP
OP
ChrisR

ChrisR

I'm a well known grump...
Messages
9,427
Name
Chris
Edit My Images
Yes
#42
Yes but they're not so fully featured ... you can't place points & shove them about like in Photoshop - can you?
No, the implementation is a bit weird, tried but haven't really got to grips with it yet. Most folk seem to suggest scanning fairly flat, just get the black and white points at the edge of the information, then do the rest later in your favourite editor.
 
Messages
3,734
Name
droj
Edit My Images
No
#43
No, the implementation is a bit weird, tried but haven't really got to grips with it yet. Most folk seem to suggest scanning fairly flat, just get the black and white points at the edge of the information, then do the rest later in your favourite editor.
Well that's what we're forced to do, really ...
 
OP
OP
ChrisR

ChrisR

I'm a well known grump...
Messages
9,427
Name
Chris
Edit My Images
Yes
#44
OK, as noted in the edited front post, I reckon the Q&A format doesn't work in the forum, so I'm not going to try to summarise any more Qs and As, and hoping this will remain useful as a discussion thread on Vuescan.
 
OP
OP
ChrisR

ChrisR

I'm a well known grump...
Messages
9,427
Name
Chris
Edit My Images
Yes
#45
OK, I'm scanning black and white at the moment, Tri-X to be specific. Vuescan doesn't have a prefix for Kodak Tri-X. It does have a set of presets for T-Max. One is just for T-max; this has a sub-menu that lets you choose T-max 100, T-max 400 or T-max 3200. As well as the top level choice for T-max, there is one for T-max 100 and one for T-max 400. The sub-menus for these are things like "D-76 CI= 0.40" (the latter ranges up to CI=0.80) and "TMAX CI=0.40" (also ranges up to 0.80). I recognise D-76 as the name of a developer, and I think there is a specific TMAX developer as well. So, three questions:

a) what does the CI parameter mean, and how would one choose which to use?
b) are any of the the T-max presets appropriate for Tr-X?
c) If not, what is best?

Generic Negative gives a result with much darker shadow areas, ie not so flat.
 
OP
OP
ChrisR

ChrisR

I'm a well known grump...
Messages
9,427
Name
Chris
Edit My Images
Yes
#46
Hmm. previewed a frame, looks OK but a bit flat with the Tmax/Tmax400 preset. Tried it with Generic/Color/Negative and I get out of gamut clipping on the blacks. That doesn't sound like a good thing, so back to the Tmax-Tmax400 setting!
 

RaglanSurf

Forum Idiot'13/14 <span class=poty>FPOTY'17</span>
Messages
10,821
Name
Nick
Edit My Images
Yes
#47
Yes, that's been there for ages but one thing I've noticed since the update I haven't been able to copy a file name from outside Vuescan and paste it into the Vuescan filename box, anybody else found this?
Has anybody else found this or is it just me?
 
OP
OP
ChrisR

ChrisR

I'm a well known grump...
Messages
9,427
Name
Chris
Edit My Images
Yes
#48
Has anybody else found this or is it just me?
Yes, just tried it, and I can't paste a file name in either. Oddly, it appears you can copy a file name from that box, but not paste! I've reported it... by email as I couldn't see a way to report possible bugs on their web site.
 

RaglanSurf

Forum Idiot'13/14 <span class=poty>FPOTY'17</span>
Messages
10,821
Name
Nick
Edit My Images
Yes
#49
Yes, just tried it, and I can't paste a file name in either. Oddly, it appears you can copy a file name from that box, but not paste! I've reported it... by email as I couldn't see a way to report possible bugs on their web site.
Thanks Chris, it was starting to send me a bit mad.
 
OP
OP
ChrisR

ChrisR

I'm a well known grump...
Messages
9,427
Name
Chris
Edit My Images
Yes
#50
I'm sure Ed Hamrick won't mind me posting his reply:

Unfortunately, when I switched to drop-down lists for file names, these stopped accepting cut/paste. I haven't been able to figure out how to get cut/paste to work with these.

Take a look at www.wxwidgets.org and take a look at the wxComboBox class - that's where the problem is.

Regards,
Ed Hamrick
Sent 00:25 our time, so late Saturday in the US. That's customer service for you!
 
OP
OP
ChrisR

ChrisR

I'm a well known grump...
Messages
9,427
Name
Chris
Edit My Images
Yes
#51
OK I need to scan some 35mm using my V500, which I'm a bit unfamiliar with. Since it will be able to "see" all 6 frames in a strip, is there any way to get it to scan them all, automatically, or do I have to reset the frame each time?
 

RaglanSurf

Forum Idiot'13/14 <span class=poty>FPOTY'17</span>
Messages
10,821
Name
Nick
Edit My Images
Yes
#52
You do a batch scan, go to the Input page and under Batch Scan select List and in the Batch List box enter 1-6 (or whatever number of negs you have)
 
OP
OP
ChrisR

ChrisR

I'm a well known grump...
Messages
9,427
Name
Chris
Edit My Images
Yes
#53
You do a batch scan, go to the Input page and under Batch Scan select List and in the Batch List box enter 1-6 (or whatever number of negs you have)
Hmmm. Unfortunately Batch Scan doesn't seem to be available. :(

(I've just spent more than half an hour trying to work out why I was getting flashing orange lights when scanning negs, when documents scan OK... then I found the manual and remembered I have to take that document mat thingy out!)
 
OP
OP
ChrisR

ChrisR

I'm a well known grump...
Messages
9,427
Name
Chris
Edit My Images
Yes
#54
Ah it looks like I have to turn the multi-crop option on in the Crop Tab, then the Batch Scan option appears on the Input Tab! Obviously.
 
OP
OP
ChrisR

ChrisR

I'm a well known grump...
Messages
9,427
Name
Chris
Edit My Images
Yes
#55
Doesn't seem to be getting the framing right, back to scanning one by one. And for some reason it's apparently doing the scan twice, despite having checked one pass, and having all the filter options off. Makes it much slower than the Plustek!
 
Messages
3,072
Name
Dean
Edit My Images
Yes
#56
Doesn't seem to be getting the framing right ...
I normally run the preview scan first, then go through each of the frames to adjust the crop box. You can pick up the whole box when you put the cursor in the middle of the frame (it turns to a pointing finger instead of an arrow when you're in the right spot or there's a modifying key you can hold while you click anywhere (need to check the help for that, I don't use it and can't remember)). I need to do that regardless of which scanner I'm using and which format I'm scanning. Doesn't take too long and is part of my workflow now.
 
OP
OP
ChrisR

ChrisR

I'm a well known grump...
Messages
9,427
Name
Chris
Edit My Images
Yes
#57
I did the preview, then set the crop box for the first frame. When I clicked scan (in batch mode), it became apparent from the scan that the crop box had jumped to the right so that it missed the first part of the frame and was covering part of the next frame! Nothing I could think of would make it work right, so I had to go back to single frame and drag the crop box to the next frame each time. Tedious! Specially combined with the extra scan pass: it seemed to do a scan in colour first, then black and white (I'd set it for black and white negative, black and white JPEG).
 
Messages
2,120
Name
Samuel
Edit My Images
Yes
#58
I did the preview, then set the crop box for the first frame. When I clicked scan (in batch mode), it became apparent from the scan that the crop box had jumped to the right so that it missed the first part of the frame and was covering part of the next frame! Nothing I could think of would make it work right, so I had to go back to single frame and drag the crop box to the next frame each time. Tedious! Specially combined with the extra scan pass: it seemed to do a scan in colour first, then black and white (I'd set it for black and white negative, black and white JPEG).
Do you have Infra-red Cleaning turned on? I've only ever used Vuescan with a flatbed once (and it was a very old one), but with that if you had IR cleaning turned on then it would do a second pass purely to detect the dust/scratches.

When you're selecting multi-crop, are you setting it to the auto option? I've never used Vuescan in batch mode as I always use a dedicated 35mm scanner, so I'm just going on what the Vuescan help files say and based on them it appears that you need to make sure you select the right option for mult-crop.
 
OP
OP
ChrisR

ChrisR

I'm a well known grump...
Messages
9,427
Name
Chris
Edit My Images
Yes
#59
Do you have Infra-red Cleaning turned on? I've only ever used Vuescan with a flatbed once (and it was a very old one), but with that if you had IR cleaning turned on then it would do a second pass purely to detect the dust/scratches.
None of the filter options are turned on, and it's set to one pass only. Weird. Perhaps I should ask the author...

When you're selecting multi-crop, are you setting it to the auto option? I've never used Vuescan in batch mode as I always use a dedicated 35mm scanner, so I'm just going on what the Vuescan help files say and based on them it appears that you need to make sure you select the right option for mult-crop.
TBH I can't remember all the details now, so I'll report when (if) I do this again. I normally use the Plustek, but it's elsewhere just now.
 
Messages
3,072
Name
Dean
Edit My Images
Yes
#60
I did the preview, then set the crop box for the first frame.
Did you set the crop box for each frame or only the first one? I set it for each frame in the strip being scanned, then click the scan button to set it off. This is the same whether I'm using the DualScan or the flatbed.
 
OP
OP
ChrisR

ChrisR

I'm a well known grump...
Messages
9,427
Name
Chris
Edit My Images
Yes
#61
Did you set the crop box for each frame or only the first one? I set it for each frame in the strip being scanned, then click the scan button to set it off. This is the same whether I'm using the DualScan or the flatbed.
Maybe that's the problem; I don't know how to set more than one crop box!
 
Messages
555
Name
Glyn
Edit My Images
Yes
#62
I have just started scanning some old MF negs... Iford FP4 but under Iford the only option is XP2 400. Am I loosing out on quality with these settings? OR have I missed something obviouse?
 
OP
OP
ChrisR

ChrisR

I'm a well known grump...
Messages
9,427
Name
Chris
Edit My Images
Yes
#63
Just use the XP2, or any other black and white setting you find under other vendors. The issue with colour film is related to the colour of the base emulsion and other matters that generally don't apply to proper black and white film. Be prepared to scan "flat", ie just set the black and white points to the end of the histogram (Vuescan usually does that automatically), the give it any necessary contrast boost in your usual PP software. I usually use a slight curve in Aperture rather than use the contrast slider.
 

StephenM

I know a Blithering Idiot
Messages
3,409
Name
Stephen
Edit My Images
Yes
#64
I usually experiment with different films until I get the result I want. The less you have to adjust afterwards, the better. The biggest quality drop would be if you scanned to produce a jpg and then applied levels, curves or any form of contrast or brightness adjustment to it. For black and white, 8 bits isn't enough.
 
Messages
3,072
Name
Dean
Edit My Images
Yes
#65
Maybe that's the problem; I don't know how to set more than one crop box!
Right, so with multicrop on, run your preview and use the frame slider on the Input tab to select the first frame. Adjust the crop box, then move to the next frame using either the slider or the left/right arrows at bottom right of the window. You should get a new crop box which you can adjust for that frame and so on until you've done them all.

Use the Batch Type drop down to select between off (only scan current frame), on (scan all frames including empty ones), list (if you're picking frames from the preview) and auto (not sure as I never use it). I normally use list as you can enter ranges and single numbers, comma-separated. Hit the scan button and you're off. :)
 
Messages
1,229
Name
John
Edit My Images
Yes
#66
Use the Batch Type drop down to select between off (only scan current frame), on (scan all frames including empty ones), list (if you're picking frames from the preview) and auto (not sure as I never use it). I normally use list as you can enter ranges and single numbers, comma-separated. Hit the scan button and you're off. :)
Apparently in the list box you can use, comma separated (eg 1,3,4) a range (1-5) or a combination of (eg 1-3,5).
You can also use R to rotate by 90 degrees to the right or L to the left (eg 1,2L,5R). and apparently you can also use mirroring using an F (eg 1F) The letters can't be used in combination on on frame.
 
OP
OP
ChrisR

ChrisR

I'm a well known grump...
Messages
9,427
Name
Chris
Edit My Images
Yes
#67
Wow, thanks! Now to remember this next time I'm scanning 35mm using the V500...
 
OP
OP
ChrisR

ChrisR

I'm a well known grump...
Messages
9,427
Name
Chris
Edit My Images
Yes
#68
I'm having a problem scanning Precisa 100 (in 135) on my PlusTek 7500i. It's set up for Generic Colour Slide; the only other options are Kodak Ektachrome and Kodachrome. The profile is currently Generic, but I don't think the behaviour I'm about to describe changes if I change to ICC Profile.

Scanning these slides (from a trip to Batsford Arboretum two weeks ago for autumn colours), there's a full range of colours coming off the scanner, but I can't get the black and white points to the edges of the histogram. They are stuck resolutely at 5 and 88 (where the full range of the histogram is 100). I can't seem to find any way to budge them. As a result I've got lots of over-exposed issues with any leafs in sunlight.

Has anyone any idea how to fix this?
 
Messages
2,120
Name
Samuel
Edit My Images
Yes
#69
Could you show a screenshot of your settings in the "colour" tab? The settings on that will probably explain why it's behaving like that.

Do you get the same effect if you set the colour balance drop-down to "none"? That just shows the scan with no black/white point adjustments (so you obviously can't alter them), and if the highlights are clipped there then they will also when you apply the levels. Have you tried locking the exposure in the first tab (can't remember what it's called at the moment) and then manually adjusting it down? If it is a contrasty scene then it may be that the scanner is automatically over-exposing the scan so no matter how much you try and push down the black and white points it will always be overexposed. Remember it's all about capturing the full dynamic range of the scan: don't clip the highlights as you can always move the levels up later if they're not quite right and look grey rather than white. Have you got the clipping warnings turned on?

If you want to make your life easier when scanning slides, buy an IT8 target from Wolf Faust (very cheap in comparison to most places) and save yourself a lot of bother - trust me it will save you a lot of time and effort altering both the scanner exposure and colours as you can literally just scan nearly any slide with the saved exposure settings (as you need to keep it constant), then apply the profile and move the levels to where you want and you're completely done with what should/will be an accurate copy of the original scan. I can walk you through making and using the profile if you decide to go down that route as if you know what you're doing then it's easy, but if not it's bloody hard!
 
Messages
10,329
Name
Suz
Edit My Images
Yes
#70
Isn't precisa some Fuji slide film? Provia or something. It mentions it being an expensive Fuji one on the Nik and thingies film site.

I'd mess with the white balance settings. I'm sure I have had similar before. Sometimes the white balance you normally use just doesn't work. I just pick another and somehow for some films it just looks right somehow.

What happens if you run the 'profile film' option then use the results of that?
 
OP
OP
ChrisR

ChrisR

I'm a well known grump...
Messages
9,427
Name
Chris
Edit My Images
Yes
#71
Thanks Samuel and Suz. I have an IT8 target somewhere but can't find it, annoyingly. I did try with the ICC Profile I created, but didn't lock exposure, will maybe try that. The effect happened for any white balance setting, including (AFAICR) None.

Yes, the Precisa is based on Provia, and has come out rather nicely. Out of two films I scanned yesterday (the two expired Precisa I got from you, Suz, at the Peaks meet), maybe half a dozen frames were in enough sunlight to have problems. There was a lot more shad in the Arboretum than I wanted, but maybe it worked to advantage this time!

I'll try again some time later...
 
Messages
10,329
Name
Suz
Edit My Images
Yes
#72
Is there any way of scanning with a manual exposure so you could scan it twice and then with an outside HDR type programme combine the two scans? Huge faff compared to just finding the right setting but it might at least give you a result to aim for within vuescan in one go.
 
OP
OP
ChrisR

ChrisR

I'm a well known grump...
Messages
9,427
Name
Chris
Edit My Images
Yes
#73
I couldn't see a way to do that, but maybe locking exposure as Samuel suggests would open the door. Of course, Vuescan already has this feature, multi-exposure, but it works the other way, increasing the exposure so as to open up the shadows then combining the two. Only if you have a scanner with enough repeatability to get the registration of the two scans right; I suspect you don't get this with the V500.
 
Messages
2,120
Name
Samuel
Edit My Images
Yes
#74
It's over-exposing the scan as the auto exposure time is too long. Setting the white balance to "none", make sure clipping warnings are on and lock the exposure, bring it down a fraction, then preview. Keep adjusting it down until the highlights are not clipping, then try and increase it to the very limit before it clips (to get maximal shadow detail).
 
OP
OP
ChrisR

ChrisR

I'm a well known grump...
Messages
9,427
Name
Chris
Edit My Images
Yes
#76
Not yet, I've been up to my eyes building a web site for my sister-in-law yesterday and today. I'll try to re-scan some frames tomorrow or Monday.
 
OP
OP
ChrisR

ChrisR

I'm a well known grump...
Messages
9,427
Name
Chris
Edit My Images
Yes
#77
Right, I've been investigating again. First, it wasn't obvious to me before, but clicking the "Lock exposure" box adds a couple of sliders to adjust exposure, one for RGB and one for infrared.

Normally when Vuescan starts up, it defaults to the last settings. This time it had somehow reset itself, so I had to re-create the last settings from memory. In the capture of the Color tab below, I missed one, with output colour space set at AdobeRGB rather than sRGB:



Eventually I was able to turn the exposure down enough to get a reasonable scan of this frame. The next dodgy one, however, looked like this (the cyan areas are out of gamut/over exposed):



Even with exposure turned down to 0.1 I wasn't able to get much improvement.

At this point, it seemed worth while to look at the frames by eye. I don't have a loupe, so I can't be sure, but I think 99% of that last frame is fine. One or two leafs may be badly over-exposed, if you're looking really closely. I did another frame with similar results (it was also yellow leafs).

So I'm still bamboozled!
 
Messages
2,120
Name
Samuel
Edit My Images
Yes
#78
Just to check, you did press preview each time you changed the RGB exposure down? And when you were doing the exposure adjustments the colour balance was set to "none"?

That cyan colour shows that the leaves are out of the output colour spaces gamut, but they are mostly not over-exposed (that shows as green). In the input tab you really need to change "bits per pixel" to 16/48 bit colour and set a colour space with a wider gamut, Adobe Wide Gamut is likely the best choice (the sRGB profile is really very limited for the purposes of scanning slides as they way exceed its coverage). You can always down-convert to 8/24 bit colour and sRGB etc later (you can set it in the output tab if you want) as remember that at the scanning stage you want everything from the frame as much as possible.

I note that you have the white point set as 1%, if you're in the neutral colour balance setting try bringing that down as that controls the upper image levels and as so would make an image over-bright if not set right.

I also notice you have multi-exposure on, try turning that off as sometimes the exposure blending can be confused and blend the brighter exposure on where the lower one really needs to be. Just do one thing at once though.
 
OP
OP
ChrisR

ChrisR

I'm a well known grump...
Messages
9,427
Name
Chris
Edit My Images
Yes
#79
Thanks Samuel. More homework... but it'll have to be next week as we're off tomorrow for a bit. I did do preview after changing the exposure.
 
OP
OP
ChrisR

ChrisR

I'm a well known grump...
Messages
9,427
Name
Chris
Edit My Images
Yes
#80
Thanks Samuel. More homework... but it'll have to be next week as we're off tomorrow for a bit. I did do preview after changing the exposure.
Just thinking on this, presumably I missed a trick in not scanning those frames in raw? Then I could have tried the adjustments you are suggesting even while away from the scanner... as well as lowering the risk of getting dust on the film strip!
 
Top