The younger, or more timid generation.

Just another (ism) for the older generation to use to insult people as they can't call them all those character building words from there tormented childhoods.
 
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I'm laughing at all the snowflakes on here getting all het up ..

The term has been used for years, by people of all ages... to describe "sensitive little souls" ( the forerunner of Snowflake) Its only more recently has "Generation" been added.
So as above anyone of any generation can be a snowflake ...
 
I'm as sure as I can be that snowflake at one time used to be a racist term. Not actually racist of course as the snowflakes were white people and it's ok to racially abuse white people. I think it's in the rules, discrimination (and I'd include racism here) against white people shall not be classified as discrimination. Where did I read that? :D If I've quoted it accurately enough.
 
woof woof said:
Gammon as it seems to be defined clearly singles out one race and gender in negative targeting and that has to be wrong. People don't necessarily come in such easily defined types and I do find Gammon facile. In the context of power don't forget that many Gammons are working class underprivileged and disadvantaged.
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Yeah. Good point. Although many 'gammons' are equally (relatively) wealthy and privileged (even if they don't imagine themselves to be). Surely the term has more to do with political/social attitudes than even class?


woof woof said:
No, it's racist as I targeted one ethnic group, whites.
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But in the context of white people using a pejorative term towards other white people, surely there can be no 'racial' element at all? IIRC, the term was first used centuries ago, by white people, describing other white people. I accept that this becomes more problematic if others in society, such as Black and Brown people, use it. But then again, we need to look at social power structures, to understand if it is actually 'racist' in a sociological term, even if it might be in perhaps a 'legal' sense. But I do get your point and I don't think you are wrong.


woof woof said:
It is racist. It's just odd that some use racist terms to denigrate others of the same race but this isn't unique to white people and of course under the new enlightened way of deciding these things I have the right to decide if anyone else is being racist.
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Well. I think you make a very good argument, But I think you'll also agree, that it is very complex.

But quite frankly, if Daily Mail reading middle aged/elderly white men are getting all upset over being called 'gammon' by other white folk, and bleating on about it being 'racist', then they need to check their ****ing privilege and think about what racism actually is, particularly the kind they seem to think is acceptable for them to espouse.


Sky said:
IMO the reasons youngsters come up with new words is because they're mostly too lazy to look up the meaning of any existing words.
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Dat is bare long, bruv.
 
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Cobra said:
The term has been used for years, by people of all ages... to describe "sensitive little souls"
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See; each generation will have it's own set of socio-cultural-political sensibilities, that it won't like having challenged, particularly by younger people. This is the real root of it. I mean, if younger folk challenge some old fuddy duddy (can you even say that, or is it ageist?) about calling someone a 'poof', for example, that's not the younger people being 'sensitive little souls', is it? No, it's about the fact our society has changed, and with it our attitudes and even our laws, so obsolete behaviour needs to be shown for what it is. I'm sure a lot of people would love to have the 'freedom' to go round 'Paki Bashing' or throwing bananas at black football players, but fortunately, a lot of 'sensitive little souls' have worked very hard to try to eradicate such negative and destructive behaviour from our society.
 
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woof woof said:
I can't say that the kids in my family have fast lives as they appear to spend most of their time staring at oblong electronic boxes.

The thing that worries me most is that they don't seem to be doing anything mind or experience enhancing as they very mostly seem to play very simple platform games that a toddler could master or watch idiots hurt themselves or do mundane tasks in less than 60 seconds. Less mind enhancing than mind numbing, IMO.
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I guess I must be lucky. My daughter has a first from UCL in Archaeology, a distinction in her masters on early pre-history and human origins, has been on archaeological excavations in Africa and Croatia to mention but a few and she's only 24. My youngest son has worked in China twice and travelled through much of East Asia. My oldest son worked in the Czech Republic and has traveled extensively. My other son, I've three in all, is an ammunition technician in the British army he's toured Afghanistan twice and Iraq once. So, all in all they all have mind and experiencing expanding lives. Oh, they also enjoy computer games :)
 
jakeblu said:
I guess I must be lucky. My daughter has a first from UCL in Archaeology, a distinction in her masters on early pre-history and human origins, has been on archaeological excavations in Africa and Croatia to mention but a few and she's only 24. My youngest son has worked in China twice and travelled through much of East Asia. My oldest son worked in the Czech Republic and has traveled extensively. My other son, I've three in all, is an ammunition technician in the British army he's toured Afghanistan twice and Iraq once. So, all in all they all have mind and experiencing expanding lives. Oh, they also enjoy computer games :)
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Do they do the flipping dishes when asked though? Eh? I bet the bloody don't. Kids today, eeeh... [Wanders off forgetting what it was he got so angry about in the first place]
 
AZ6 said:
See; each generation will have it's own set of socio-cultural-political sensibilities,
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My point exactly.
 
jakeblu said:
I guess I must be lucky. My daughter has a first from UCL in Archaeology, a distinction in her masters on early pre-history and human origins, has been on archaeological excavations in Africa and Croatia to mention but a few and she's only 24. My youngest son has worked in China twice and travelled through much of East Asia. My oldest son worked in the Czech Republic and has traveled extensively. My other son, I've three in all, is an ammunition technician in the British army he's toured Afghanistan twice and Iraq once. So, all in all they all have mind and experiencing expanding lives. Oh, they also enjoy computer games :)
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The kids in my family are kids which is why I described them as kids. They mostly haven't left school yet and in a couple of instances have only just started and are a bit young to have gone to China or entered battle just yet.

I'm glad for you and your adult offspring but they're hardly comparable to kids who rather than playing simple platform games could be doing something better and by better I mean something that'll stretch them and develop them more than playing a game a three year old could play, watching some idiot fall off something or watching someone applying makeup for 43 seconds.

Maybe if your "kids" had played simple platform games for hours every day they wouldn't have achieved what they have so far? I don't know but as a parent I wonder if you'd have worried if they'd sat playing pacman just about every waking moment? I assume they didn't?

Not that I want to pick on the youngest members of my family and imply they're in any way unique as I'd guess most of their school mates live very similar lives.
 
AZ6 said:
Yeah. Good point. Although many 'gammons' are equally (relatively) wealthy and privileged (even if they don't imagine themselves to be). Surely the term has more to do with political/social attitudes than even class?
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But it seems to be specifically used to denigrate white men who voted for brexit. That has to be racist and sexist and at least politically debatable and as I keep saying it's facile.

AZ6 said:
But in the context of white people using a pejorative term towards other white people, surely there can be no 'racial' element at all? IIRC, the term was first used centuries ago, by white people, describing other white people. I accept that this becomes more problematic if others in society, such as Black and Brown people, use it. But then again, we need to look at social power structures, to understand if it is actually 'racist' in a sociological term, even if it might be in perhaps a 'legal' sense. But I do get your point and I don't think you are wrong.
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You can defend it but any term singling out one racial/gender in a negative way (or arguably in a positive way too) surely has to be wrong?

I think I'm right in saying that in the UK and at this minute I get to decide what I think is racist even if I'm not the target, just a witness, but I do find it culturally interesting and personally irritating that as a northern white English working class man and brexit proponent I'm one of the people who can be racially abused, suffer gender discrimination and be generally derided by people who would see and describe themselves as enlightened, socially responsible and entirely liberal. Call them the reactionary discriminatory bigots some undoubtedly are and they'd be appalled :D

Railing against racist (IMO) terms such as gammon may be small beer but this is a slippery slope and if we allow sections of society to be picked on how far do we let it go? There are some who'd like to see brexit voters die off or their rite to vote be removed and these are people who see themselves as being on the right side of the argument.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_...
 
woof woof said:
I think I'm right in saying that in the UK and at this minute I get to decide what I think is racist even if I'm not the target, just a witness, but I do find it culturally interesting and personally irritating that as a northern white English working class man and brexit proponent I'm one of the people who can be racially abused, suffer gender discrimination and be generally derided by people who would see and describe themselves as enlightened, socially responsible and entirely liberal. Call them the reactionary discriminatory bigots some undoubtedly are and they'd be appalled :D
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Give it a rest will you, your working class white man being abused and discriminated against is becoming tiresome. It's also an insult to those who genuinely suffer from discrimination in the UK.
 
woof woof said:
You can defend it but any term singling out one racial/gender in a negative way (or arguably in a positive way too) surely has to be wrong?
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It's not really 'singling' out a particular 'race', ethnic group or even age demographic though, is it? It's about social attitudes, a state of mind that is under scrutiny, not any protected characteristics. It really isn't racist in it's inception and original use. It really, really isn't.

woof woof said:
I think I'm right in saying that in the UK and at this minute I get to decide what I think is racist even if I'm not the target, just a witness, but I do find it culturally interesting and personally irritating that as a northern white English working class man and brexit proponent I'm one of the people who can be racially abused, suffer gender discrimination and be generally derided by people who would see and describe themselves as enlightened, socially responsible and entirely liberal.
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Are you though? I mean, I'd happily challenge you on your views regarding Brexit for example, but funnily enough, literally some of my best friends are Brexiteers. None of them are what I'd consider to be 'gammon'. Not at all. No way. It's not something that only concerns Brexit. It's much deeper than that. And it's certainly not confined to working class Northern men.

https://www.independent.co.uk/voice...hite-men-middle-age-immigration-a8352141.html

The author did not, as he claims, 'coin' the term 'gammon', it's been about for centuries, But skipping past that; he's a white man. How can a white man calling other white men something, possibly be considered 'racist'? Only in the tiny, narrow minds of actual racists, can it possibly be distorted into a racial slur, in the context it was originally meant. Now I'm not saying it can't be used as a racist slur; again, context is everything. But it is not in itself, 'racist'. It's just not. End of. You really, really aren't being 'racially abused'. So whilst I accept you have valid, interesting and important points to make, and that your views should be heard just as much as everyone else's, you must also accept that your views will be challenged.


woof woof said:
Railing against racist (IMO) terms such as gammon may be small beer but this is a slippery slope and if we allow sections of society to be picked on how far do we let it go? There are some who'd like to see brexit voters die off or their rite to vote be removed and these are people who see themselves as being on the right side of the argument.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_...
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No. Don't invoke Nazism as a 'defence'. That is both wrong in the context of your argument, and deeply, deeply offensive. You do not belong to an oppressed, demonised and brutally persecuted minority. That's bang out of order.
 
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AZ6 said:
It's not really 'singling' out a particular 'race', ethnic group or even age demographic though, is it? It's about social attitudes, a state of mind that is under scrutiny, not any protected characteristics. It really isn't racist in it's inception and original use. It really, really isn't.



Are you though? I mean, I'd happily challenge you on your views regarding Brexit for example, but funnily enough, literally some of my best friends are Brexiteers. None of them are what I'd consider to be 'gammon'. Not at all. No way. It's not something that only concerns Brexit. It's much deeper than that. And it's certainly not confined to working class Northern men.

https://www.independent.co.uk/voice...hite-men-middle-age-immigration-a8352141.html

The author did not, as he claims, 'coin' the term 'gammon', it's been about for centuries, But skipping past that; he's a white man. How can a white man calling other white men something, possibly be considered 'racist'? Only in the tiny, narrow minds of actual racists, can it possibly be distorted into a racial slur, in the context it was originally meant. Now I'm not saying it can't be used as a racist slur; again, context is everything. But it is not in itself, 'racist'. It's just not. End of. You really, really aren't being 'racially abused'. So whilst I accept you have valid, interesting and important points to make, and that your views should be heard just as much as everyone else's, you must also accept that your views will be challenged.




No. Don't invoke Nazism as a 'defence'. That is both wrong in the context of your argument, and deeply, deeply offensive. You do not belong to an oppressed, demonised and brutally persecuted minority. That's bang out of order.
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Maybe it has connotations for a particular age group who got called "Honky" ?
 
Cockney said:
Maybe it has connotations for a particular age group who got called "Honky" ?
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Maybe. If the two words or their inception had any similarity at all. But they don't, so it doesn't.
 
I think this thread is veering off in the wrong direction. It is not about race, but more about the younger possibly more timid generation.
 
I don't know who came up with the term 'racism', but they should have been shot in my opinion. It's not about race, we're all part of the human race. It's about skin colour or culture which I feel would be better described as elitism - where one group feels they are better than others.

The human race will never be equal; there will always be those that think they're better because they are either more intelligent, better educated, richer, taller, thinner, fatter, faster, slower etc. not forgetting of course, to mention the colour of their skin or hair.

Humans - pffft!

I'm better than all of you 'cos I'm an alien. :p

Oh, and to keep on topic - I'm older and wiser too. ;)
 
jakeblu said:
I doubt many who were called honky where being repeatedly kicked in the face by size 10 Doc Martins at the time. Context is everything.
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I dont get your point.
 
Sky said:
I don't know who came up with the term 'racism', but they should have been shot in my opinion. It's not about race, we're all part of the human race. It's about skin colour or culture which I feel would be better described as elitism - where one group feels they are better than others.

The human race will never be equal; there will always be those that think they're better because they are either more intelligent, better educated, richer, taller, thinner, fatter, faster, slower etc. not forgetting of course, to mention the colour of their skin or hair.

Humans - pffft!

I'm better than all of you 'cos I'm an alien. :p

Oh, and to keep on topic - I'm older and wiser too. ;)
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Bloody greenie. :)
 
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jonbeeza said:
I am just trying to remember when I became old, it was probably when the kids started telling me what to do. :)
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Essentially it happens when people stop referring to your children as X's son/daughter and you become Y's dad instead... That and someone addressing you as Mr A... No, Mr A is my dad... Oh right
 
Cockney said:
You cant find a connection between honky and gammon? Ok.
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Honky generally refers to a people with white skin, its a universal term, slight derogatory. Gammon has a much narrower definition, you need to be more than white skinned to be called a gammon.
Cockney said:
I dont get your point.
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I'd assumed, that you were comparing the term honky to n****r and P**i My apologies if I was wrong.
 
hunnymonster said:
Essentially it happens when people stop referring to your children as X's son/daughter and you become Y's dad instead... That and someone addressing you as Mr A... No, Mr A is my dad... Oh right
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The real giveaway is when someone asks your age. If you tell them how old you are next birthday, you're old.:)
 
hunnymonster said:
Essentially it happens when people stop referring to your children as X's son/daughter and you become Y's dad instead... That and someone addressing you as Mr A... No, Mr A is my dad... Oh right
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Our grand children are now adults, me and the missus feel old. Probably because we are old. lol :)
 
jakeblu said:
Honky generally refers to a people with white skin, its a universal term, slight derogatory. Gammon has a much narrower definition, you need to be more than white skinned to be called a gammon.

I'd assumed, that you were comparing the term honky to n****r and P**i My apologies if I was wrong.
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No I wasn't i was comparing it because honky was a common racial insult, for the same reason gammon is used. Eg. pig coloured.
 
Cockney said:
The real giveaway is when someone asks your age. If you tell them how old you are next birthday, you're old.:)
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One of the great grand children said "you are old and I don't want you to die" to the missus once. We try and make the most of seeing the family, that is why the current situation is a bit of a bummer. But the missus loves these new fangled apps, where you can keep in touch. :)
 
Cockney said:
No I wasn't i was comparing it because honky was a common racial insult, for the same reason gammon is used. Eg. pig coloured.
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Yeah I can see that now, but I would argue that neither honky or gammon is a racist slur, certainly not in the same league as other racial slurs, which, is what my previous post was about.
 
jakeblu said:
Yeah I can see that now, but I would argue that neither honky or gammon is a racist slur, certainly not in the same league as other racial slurs, which, is what my previous post was about.
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Sorry but I think you're wrong. I worked in Brixton & Kenington and lived in Tottenham, close enough to Broadwater farm to hear the riots. Honky was a widely used racial term.
Every race has their knobheads.
 
Strange thing is, family members now want to go out with other family members, but they can't. They did not go out much as a family before lockdown. It is obviously bringing family members more closer together, even though we all can't really meet up, only in spirit.
 
Quite ironic that the young are portrayed by some of the older generation as wimps and scared of their own shadow.
Boot on the other foot now the old daily fail reading moaners are s***ting their selves
 
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tijuana taxi said:
Quite ironic that the young are portrayed by some of the older generation as wimps and scared of their own shadow.
Boot on the other foot now the old daily fail reading moaners are s***ting their selves
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It is all tongue in cheek, and not to be taken too seriously. :)
 
tijuana taxi said:
Quite ironic that the young are portrayed by some of the older generation as wimps and scared of their own shadow.
Boot on the other foot now the old daily fail reading moaners are s***ting their selves
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Charming as ever.
 
jakeblu said:
Yeah I can see that now, but I would argue that neither honky or gammon is a racist slur
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Crumbs! I'm feeling very minoritised here. Surely I'm not the only person who's read George MacDonald Fraser 's books and is therefor aware that "Gammon" is Victorian slang for "bloody nonsense"?

Dammit all! Next thing you'll tell me they're lowering the flag across the empire...

Union Jack against blue sky G2 P1210111.jpg
 
Just read through this whole thread and to be honest I haven’t got a clue whats It’s about , age,race,colour ,religion it’s all in there . At 74 I grew up in the east end of London just after the war , my playgrounds were bombed out buildings , we wiped our arses on either slippery izal toilet paper or on the news of the world or evening standard . And had to go down three flights of stairs to the only khazi in the house , it was a nice area my dad kept a weapon in every room just in case ,a old cut down broomstick wrapped with leadsheet in one room ,a few heavy duty socks filled with lead in another and the inevitable double barrelled 410 shotgun in another .. it was the time when the local coppers patrolled the streets day and night on the beat and I was often told to F off to my own manor growing up . We had the first t.v in our turning and all my mum and dads friends and family came to see it it was in a massive cabinet with a 12inch black and white screen .
But we were a happy breed in them days ,we had fights and brawls but no one got seriously hurt let alone killed . We had discipline in the home and school and I still remember the cane that brought us back to reality . ..
kids today in all honesty aint got a clue
 
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