Things you learn late in photography...but are obvious to everyone else.

Spot on. Hence I have signed up for an evening course to go back to basics - hopefully it'll all be old hat to me, but not all perhaps, and it'll be a refresher at the least. We are never too old to re-learn what we have long forgotten (or never learned in the first place!)
 
lindsay said:
Spot on. Hence I have signed up for an evening course to go back to basics - hopefully it'll all be old hat to me, but not all perhaps, and it'll be a refresher at the least. We are never too old to re-learn what we have long forgotten (or never learned in the first place!)
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I start my course on the 19th April for 10 weeks.

We should compare notes.
 
I start mine tomorrow for 6 weeks (or 8, I can't remember), then there is a follow on course but that probably won't start until autumn unfortunately.
Yes, let's compare notes!
 
I think I've joined when it's term 3 - which says it's all about portraits...

But I'm not sure it may be ground zero and work up from there. Which is no bad thing.
 
That was my thinking - term 2 of my course is about lighting and location shooting which is what I was interested in, but it asks that you've done the introductory course first, so I thought I would.
 
Over several decades, I've come to the conclusion that there are two fundamental groups of "serious" photographers: intuitives and "technicals". The two groups aren't exclusive, so far as I can see and most people fit somewhere along a line between two extremes.

The intuitive photographers seem to be at their happiest with totally automatic cameras and in the absence of such, will learn to use the minimum of controls to achieve their aims. These are the people who make good press photographers and photojournalists - the image itself being a tool to tell their story. A class or any other form of structure is not for them, they'd rather get out and do it. When things go wrong they learn quickly from the mistakes and try again.

The technical photographer appears to seek the sharpest image and the minimum distortion. Such photographers often concentrate on architecture or advertising photography and measures the light to within a quarter of a stop. The image may well have another purpose but can also be an end in itself. These are the people who will benefit the most from classes and seminars- and will in time end up teaching others. If you're at the technical end of the spectrum, you'll get pleasure from both the learning and sociality of a class, which is a good reason for you to go for it.
 
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I agree it's a spectrum. Sean Flynn is a good example of the intuitive, I'd venture to suggest that Ansel Adams an example of the technical.
For me, doing a course is partly social but mainly to refresh/renew and remove incorrect assumptions, and because I'm a lazy learner these days - F2F I think will work well for me now because I don't have the patience to watch loads of YouTubes; gone are my days of open university study!
 
Introductory course? That's thrown me, well let's see what happens Wednesday.

I might print up a TP membership card, cleverly disguised as a co-operative card.

Besides pad, pen etc for taking notes. I read online it would be handy to take your camera manual with you on the course.

What do you think @lindsay ?

I'll ask the repo team to bind an a4 copy up at work for me. If you want one let me know and I can ask them when I get mine done, send the pdf over and PM me your home address.
 
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I will know much more after tomorrow evening's first session @Jungli . Thankfully as an Admin (owner) I have business cards for TP that we got printed, so if it seems appropriate at some point, I'll be dishing them out. Good point about the camera manual; I haven't decided which camera I'm going to take just in case, but probably my Olympus EM1 for which I have a book that is easier to navigate than the manual. That's a kind offer though, thanks.
Like I said, I'm expecting it will be old hat for me (having grown up with film cameras and using best-guess for exposures, and my digital knowledge is from experience too, but I know there's plenty I don't know or could do with understanding better, and I need to re-acquire my mojo, so...
 
So we can expect an influx of "help me with my homework" posts from new members? ;) :p

Hopefully, with the card recipients hand picked, there will be a please and thank you as well!!!

Personally, I have problems learning new things - well, getting new information to stick in my damaged brain, so stick to what I've always done. It does mean that I rarely upgrade kit for bells and whistles tweaks, holding out for real upgrades.

Lindsay, you could always completely throw the tutor and take a 5x4... :D
 
I was very tempted to do that very thing @Nod ! but it is explicitly for digital, and I guess the topics won't include scanning and tweaking a neg.
Last time I did a photography evening course, it was C&G back in the 90's I think, all film, and I ended up doing a lot of the darkroom instruction as the tutor couldn't cover the classroom and darkroom at the same time. I am staying head-down this time.
 
lindsay said:
I was very tempted to do that very thing @Nod ! but it is explicitly for digital, and I guess the topics won't include scanning and tweaking a neg.
Last time I did a photography evening course, it was C&G back in the 90's I think, all film, and I ended up doing a lot of the darkroom instruction as the tutor couldn't cover the classroom and darkroom at the same time. I am staying head-down this time.
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I did wonder how long it would be before you broke cover.
I would quite like to do a photo arts course but that would probably still require a foundation course as it did 40 yrs. ago, which is how I ended up getting a BSc.
 
@zx9 I would love to do a degree course, just for the craic, having funded my ex-wife through one back in the late 90's (she got it, got her ARPS off the back of it, and then lost interest!). However university level courses are way too expensive now, and pensioners don't get and discounts! It may be worth moving to Scotland or NI or even Wales for the tuition fee discounts though...
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
Over several decades, I've come to the conclusion that there are two fundamental groups of "serious" photographers: intuitives and "technicals". The two groups aren't exclusive, so far as I can see and most people fit somewhere along a line between two extremes.

The intuitive photographers seem to be at their happiest with totally automatic cameras and in the absence of such, will learn to use the minimum of controls to achieve their aims. These are the people who make good press photographers and photojournalists - the image itself being a tool to tell their story. A class or any other form of structure is not for them, they'd rather get out and do it. When things go wrong they learn quickly from the mistakes and try again.

The technical photographer appears to seek the sharpest image and the minimum distortion. Such photographers often concentrate on architecture or advertising photography and measures the light to within a quarter of a stop. The image may well have another purpose but can also be an end in itself. These are the people who will benefit the most from classes and seminars- and will in time end up teaching others. If you're at the technical end of the spectrum, you'll get pleasure from both the learning and sociality of a class, which is a good reason for you to go for it.
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This really resonated with me. Photography is pretty much everything to me but I'm more than happy to hand off as much as possible to the camera and let it crack on. Auto ISO with configurable minimum shutter speed pretty much changed my life, that AND reliable highlight-weighted metering has just taken it to another level again.

I went to a class once and I think if I had stuck around for more than a week it would have put me off photography for life, I'm happiest 'learning' whilst out in the field doing it, usually without even thinking about it. I guess where I fall off that chart a bit is that I absolutely love helping others, I'm a very small fish in the amateur motorsport photography community but I'm currently answering 10-15 direct messages every single day on my IG account, after having posted a panning guide a few weeks ago, I absolutely love it. I'm writing a few more guides now and that gives me as much pleasure as actually taking the photos in the first place. For that reason I tend to ignore most opportunities to shoot as an accredited photographer, there is a belief that you need to be trackside to get good photos and I want to do everything I can to show that's not the case.

Somebody (possibly here even) told me I wasn't a photographer as I didn't know what the EC dial was doing in the background and that hit real hard for a while, a proper crisis of confidence. 'The internet' is very gear and technical-centric so it's very easy to be sucked in thinking that's a direction you need to go in to make a good go at photography.

So I guess, to answer the question from the OP, I've learned late that as long as you're happy doing what you do it doesn't really matter how you achieve it. My perfectly exposed photo of an F1 car travelling at 200mph is no less 'correct' because I didn't set the ISO myself :)
 
The way I see it is learning in a class everyone is doing the same, so where is the individuality? There is none. To develope you own style is only done one-way, trial and error. The quickest way to learn is by your mistakes. By all mean study what has already been done then adept and produce your own interpretation. Great painters will always be remembered those that copy disappear in the crowd
 
@Jungli @lindsay I hope you enjoy your courses! Signing up for a year's course about 5 years' ago was the best thing I ever did for my photography and it was a lot of fun. Our daughter took the same course the next year and now our son is at art college studying photography, the apples didn't fall far from the tree :)
 
zx9 said:
I did wonder how long it would be before you broke cover.
I would quite like to do a photo arts course but that would probably still require a foundation course as it did 40 yrs. ago, which is how I ended up getting a BSc.
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Go for it, you'll be reet.
 
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ukaskew said:
Somebody (possibly here even) told me I wasn't a photographer as I didn't know what the EC dial was doing in the background and that hit real hard for a while, a proper crisis of confidence.
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You'll have to tell me, as I don't know either.

Don't worry about it, opinions are like bum holes, everyone has one.
 
Got home a short while ago. I'll post more about the course timeline tomorrow when I have the slides to refer to, but it was enjoyable. Eight of us, myself and another chap probably the most already-knowledgeable, but some absolute beginners who don't know one end of a camera from the other. The first session was mainly introductory to the college and facilities (which were quite impressive, including a 12-bench darkroom), but we had to do an exercise of going round the college taking at least 10 photos with our phone cameras, then picking our favourite and saying why we took it. More of a tutor's assessment of our seeing-eye I think, but a nice exercise. Here's mine. Next week is on Composition.23DAA7DC_47FA_4F8A_8DF9_59D010948527.jpg
 
As promised, here's the outline of my 8 week course:
1. Intro's, basic camera info, initial assessment of where people are at in photography
2. Composition, how cameras work
3. Exposure triangle, long exposure exercise
4. Photograms & darkroom, analysing images
5. Studio (lights, backgrounds, posing)
6. Lenses - different sorts and when to use them
7. Location shoot on brief, group exercise; basic editing of shoot output
8. Final presentation of work

So, it's quite a lot in that time, but not as intense I suspect as @Jungli 's course to be
 
Hi @lindsay,

The course sounds like a good idea. We can all benefit from a return to basics...... I definitely could do with a bit of a reset. Who is running the course that you've found.
 
My course is at Tresham College in Kettering, seems to be being run as part of a Photography faculty that covers all levels via HNC/HND to degree (which I hadn't previously realised)
 
realspeed said:
The way I see it is learning in a class everyone is doing the same, so where is the individuality? There is none. To develope you own style is only done one-way, trial and error. The quickest way to learn is by your mistakes. By all mean study what has already been done then adept and produce your own interpretation. Great painters will always be remembered those that copy disappear in the crowd
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Depends, a good class should equip the student with the tools to be the best versions of themselves. Painters didn't work or learn in isolation either
 
I'm half way through my first unit with the OCA. There's been a few essays and research done on talking about photos, self portraits, composition, light/shadow, etc.. - tasks/assignments on them too. It's not a technical course at all and I'm enjoying it so far
 
realspeed said:
Great painters will always be remembered those that copy disappear in the crowd
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All artists copy, the better ones use that process as a jumping off point, the rest keep on copying. As Pablo Picasso is supposed to have said, “Good artists copy, great artists steal.” :)
 
lindsay said:
My course is at Tresham College in Kettering, seems to be being run as part of a Photography faculty that covers all levels via HNC/HND to degree (which I hadn't previously realised)
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It doesn't sound like the course has changed much since I did it there in 2008!
 
Blimey Lewis, small world then
 
lindsay said:
As promised, here's the outline of my 8 week course:
1. Intro's, basic camera info, initial assessment of where people are at in photography
2. Composition, how cameras work
3. Exposure triangle, long exposure exercise
4. Photograms & darkroom, analysing images
5. Studio (lights, backgrounds, posing)
6. Lenses - different sorts and when to use them
7. Location shoot on brief, group exercise; basic editing of shoot output
8. Final presentation of work

So, it's quite a lot in that time, but not as intense I suspect as @Jungli 's course to be
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Well, I've spent the evening at the course and the tutor is a nice chap, all round good egg.

He has got it tough as it's a wide range of skill levels. But he's planning a lesson plan on what everyone wants to achieve.

The course will cover basics with shutter and aperture settings... moving on to landscapes with a few field trips to a church and another location. Studio work setups. Product photography, macro and photo editing (very basic).

Will keep you posted on the course.
 
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lindsay said:
As promised, here's the outline of my 8 week course:
1. Intro's, basic camera info, initial assessment of where people are at in photography
2. Composition, how cameras work
3. Exposure triangle, long exposure exercise
4. Photograms & darkroom, analysing images
5. Studio (lights, backgrounds, posing)
6. Lenses - different sorts and when to use them
7. Location shoot on brief, group exercise; basic editing of shoot output
8. Final presentation of work

So, it's quite a lot in that time, but not as intense I suspect as @Jungli 's course to be
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Blimey, you could easily spend 8 weeks each on lots of those!
 
@juggler I agree - that's why I think they've taken a longer course and cut it down.
 
Agreed - the primary goal is to get everyone to control the camera, use the correct setting for the shot you want to achieve, using aperture or shutter. ISO auto.

It's an all canon setup at the college.
 
juggler said:
Blimey, you could easily spend 8 weeks each on lots of those!
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Yes, you're right, but from a learners point of view, they don't know what they don't know.

We have a a lot of knowledge and you could spend eight weeks on all of the points in the syllabus individually.

I'll give you an example, I did Karate for a few years and got to a good standard. Fighting the higher grades was fun, practising with white belts, not so much, the were too unpredictable.

They didn't know the rules... where as the higher grades did.

They could be better fighters because of thier unpredictability, where as the higher grades were held back as they knew too much or that they just learned to fight other karate practioners.
 
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Jungli said:
I'll give you an example, I did Karate for a few years and got to a good standard. Fighting the higher grades was fun, practising with white belts, not so much, the were too unpredictable.

They didn't know the rules... where as the higher grades did.

They could be better fighters because of thier unpredictability, where as the higher grades were held back as they knew too much or that they just learned to fight other karate practioners.
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If only chess was like that. I am crap at it and the floor is very clean where I get used to wipe it. I'm afraid my unpredictability does not help in the slightest against a better aficionado; my photography is much the same :( .
 
mstphoto said:
Coming from a film background, when I first started shooting digitally it took me a while to get my head round the fact that I could alter the ISO mid shoot :thinking:
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We did a good practical exercise in class this week. Setting Aperture priority and the widest setting (f1.8 in my case), and setting Shutter to 1/125, take 3 shots with ISO set to Auto in (a) well lit classroom, (b) dim corridor, and (c) darkroom under red light, and note the ISO that was used in each case to obtain a passable image. It was quite a good demo of both the usefulness of variable ISO setting but also the noise/grain that comes with it. We did a similar thing with each aspect of the exposure triangle to demonstrate the effects of each element. Nothing new for me, but a good reminder and fun exercise.
 
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