Thinking about converting to Macs

catchpole_11 said:
as a quick example:

a 20" apple monitor is £350. you can get a decent one from any other brand for £150

to upgrade from 2gb mem to 4gb is £320 pounds through apple. You can get nice ram for about £50 for pc.

the same happens when you look at their prices for HDD's too.

and btw the 8 core is only 2 quads strapped together.
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Whilst this is true, you also fail to mention that you can buy the ram and hard drives from any major website for far less than Apple charge. The same is true if you go and spec up a Hewlett Packard Workstation, the HP memory prices are stupidly uncompetitive.

The current Mac Pros use FB-DIMMS, quick search on crucial shows this to be £72.84 inc VAT for a 2gb upgrade. Oh and whilst you're there why stop at 4gb, these will take up to 32gb. The same is true for hard drives.
 
Kasalic said:
The current Mac Pros use FB-DIMMS, quick search on crucial shows this to be £72.84 inc VAT for a 2gb upgrade. Oh and whilst you're there why stop at 4gb, these will take up to 32gb. The same is true for hard drives.
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I take the point on HP. but with pc's are so much easier to upgrade than macs. there must be 100 different types of ram for a pc but not many for a mac.

anyway a mac or pc wont even know whats going on if you put 32gb of ram in it. vista will only recognise up to 4 gb at the moment. and mac wont benefit much from too much above that. anyway i think we're getting into a different argument here. maybe leave it for a dedicated MAC vs. PC thread. :D
 
catchpole_11 said:
i'm not saying that no. i use macs and pc's all the time and i can't honestly tell a difference. What i am saying is that if you open up an image in photoshop on two different monitors (providing you've calibrated them), they will look the same.
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So in terms of pulling a new Imac out of a box how far out of calibration are these?
 
I'm not sure how they come shipped... But i'm guessing they come with a standard setting on them. The calibration is more of a concern for me because i may be using a different system each day to edit the same photo, so each image has to look the same on each monitor. and then when it comes to printing, the colours have to be correct too or it could end up being a big waste of paper if the colours are incorrect.

If the mac is just for personal use, i'm sure as long as the colours generally look good you won't have a concern. My original point was only that i don't see what other people are saying, which is that the screens on imac's are much more colourful etc than others. :shrug:
 
Pop in to an Apple store and find one of you images that you've loaded on the net (assume you have some). Open it and you will find it much more vivid. Maybe they set them up like this to help make them look more glitzy
 
I switched to the Mac about 18 months ago (although bizarrely I am typing this on a PC laptop - just completely rebuilt it!). You will not look back if you make the switch. Macs just work! They are expandable just like a PC. They are not overpriced like some people would say and they are fast. I have a Mac Pro as my main computer with 6Gb Ram, 2Tb hard drive space, quad Xeons and it just flys!

I am into computers having the Mac pro, iBook, Mac Mini (running Mac OS leopard server) and my family have 3 MacBooks and another iBook! But I still find time to have about 5 PCs.

You will find that the Mac does a number of things differently but they still work on the same files and with the same software (although obviously Mac versions). I run CS3 on both types and the files are completely interchangeable on the same network and with the same media.

Also all modern Macs have Intel processors and will run Windows as well as a PC (in a window) on your Mac desktop. When you close the window it just vanishes then click on it and it restarts in 3-5 seconds exactly where it was!!

I have just started to set up a web site devoted to modifying and upgrading Apple computers - It is still under construction but it any of you want a sneak preview then take a look - www.UpgradeYourMac.co.uk (If anyone has a D200 and a Mac I have done a D200 icon you might like! Anyway whole chunks of the site don't work or are partially built so just ignore any problems its not really up to public scutiny yet! If anyone wants help upgrading anything specific on their Mac let me know!
 
30psi said:
Pop in to an Apple store and find one of you images that you've loaded on the net (assume you have some). Open it and you will find it much more vivid. Maybe they set them up like this to help make them look more glitzy
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this is most likely due to safari and IE on a mac actually supporting colour profiles properly.

my PC sits in the corner unplugged and unused nowadays, even though it is supposed to be more powerful than my macbook.
 
cowasaki said:
!

I have just started to set up a web site devoted to modifying and upgrading Apple computers - It is still under construction but it any of you want a sneak preview then take a look - www.UpgradeYourMac.co.uk (If anyone has a D200 and a Mac I have done a D200 icon you might like! Anyway whole chunks of the site don't work or are partially built so just ignore any problems its not really up to public scutiny yet! If anyone wants help upgrading anything specific on their Mac let me know!
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That looks like it's going to be a fantastic web site when it's done (y) Well worth the effort you're putting in imo. Already some useful info on there :geek:
 
i can see this mac vs. pc debate will rage on for a while. But i have to step out now or i'll sucked as usual. i have to disagree that macs jsut work though. they still find time to crash in photoshop at the worst times. lol.

the fact is that some people love macs (mainly the artsy students at my uni), some people love pc's (mainly the nerds at my uni (including me)). different things for different people. as long as you have fun doing it then its all good. :clap:
 
After 20 years of using PC's solidly for work and play using all aspects of software from CAD to Games I finally became so despondent with the blue screen of death and hang ups I decided to put my toe in the Mac swimming pool of computing.

Since changing over to the Mac I have sold my PC's and have not looked back. I have not as of yet had any system stall's hang ups or crashes and I use the mac to the fullest for video editing and photography.

I have aperture and CS3 running all the time and switch between the two effortlessly in the background mail safari and itunes will be working away.

I am not saying that Catchpole is wrong but I have tried for the last 6 month's to make this mac fall over and I think I might as well give up. If I had tried to do what I do now on the PC I had it would have gone into shock and died from cardiac arrest.

I have a 2.4g 24" Imac and I stuck 4gig of ram in it from Crucial and this thing flys.....

It all just works ... I will never return to painful days of Windows.....

Shutterman.
 
catchpole_11 said:
....
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You can upgrade a Mac just as easily as you can upgrade a PC. Your argument with regards to having 100 types of different memory solutions for the PC platform is irrelevant. The Macbook, Macbook Pro, iMac & Mac Mini all use DDR2 667 RAM. Thats PC2-5300. Yes you can buy it with increased latency timings but these products are targeted at the overclocker PC community. You will find that both PC and Mac use the same DDR2 667 5-5-5-15 memory standard in mainstream computer purchases.

With regards to hard drives, you have the same options available to the Mac as you do the PC. I have recently upgraded my Mac Pro to 4 Western Digital Raptor 150GB hard drives. Are these for the PC only system? I think not. You can fit any SATA2 hard drive in a Mac Pro. In fact, I have even fitted a "PC" only 320GB 2.5" SATA2 hard drive in my Macbook along with 2GB's of DDR2 memory that only cost me GBP40. Funny enough you can use those same two modules in a PC machine (providing the motherboard can support and address 667mhz modules).

The only area that lacks is the graphics card expandability for the Mac Pro. You cant just go out and buy the latest and greatest unfortunately. You will usually need to buy from Mac direct. But then again, when you are running a Quadro FX5600 1.5GB graphics card, who needs to upgrade?

One other thing, the 8-core Mac Pro isnt just two Quad Core Xeons "slapped" together. It is a highly refined piece of engineering that utilizes every ounce of its performance. Funnily enough, the motherboard design is quite common and can be found in a similar format to the PC counterpart, after all, they use the same components. Oh, and FB-DIMMS are a common product in the PC server world too, funny thing that they work on Mac. Oh, as they are ECC modules, the prices are generally higher.

So really, I dont think your argument is well thought through.

I am not going to get into a debate that has been overdebated but when the facts are not straight I feel I have to.
 
catchpole_11 said:
anyway a mac or pc wont even know whats going on if you put 32gb of ram in it. vista will only recognise up to 4 gb at the moment. and mac wont benefit much from too much above that. anyway i think we're getting into a different argument here. maybe leave it for a dedicated MAC vs. PC thread. :D
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What a load crap. Vista can address more than 4GB of RAM on a 64bit system (look here). The limitation comes down to the motherboard. Most mainstream and even overclocker boards can only address 4GB's of RAM. Thats hardware limited, not software. If you actually have any idea what you are on about you will know that when you are running server/workstation/renderfarm systems which put gigaflops of information through themselves that the more memory you have and the greater processing power (i.e multiple cores) the job is done a hell of a lot quicker. I render anything from 20 second to 5 minute footage through Maya on my Mac Pro with 16GB's of memory and it can take anything up to 36 hours to complete.

Another thing you benefit from multicore systems is that you can allocate CPU's to specific jobs spreading a great deal workload through an entire system. Sometimes if I only render a small amount of information I will specifically allocate two cores and 12GB's of RAM to the job allowing me to run on 6 cores and 4GB's of RAM. You can do this on both PC and Mac platforms as it is SOFTWARE based. Not platform.
 
I was an Apple user, long before the Mac was invented .. then moved over to the PC world of computers and stuck with that as it became the business "norm" .... A year ago I thought "enough", as I had it with the anti-virus applications and how much they hog a machine's resources.

I also wanted to see how much merit, if any, the Mac community had with regards to the "we have no viruses over here" .... got myself a MacBook, got no anti virus and haven't for once been hit ..... as a matter of fact, there isn't a single virus "in the wild" for the Mac OS!

This alone makes me think it irrelevant how much you spend on the machine; after-all it is just a once expense in a few years! The comfort of using a machine without the virus threat is a God-bless. Now, of course you may get a virus on your Mac, but only if you're running Windows on it! So, in effect, it's Windows that would be the gateway for the threat.

That aside, the experience with Mac has been wonderful with not a single crash, thank God.
 
Just another mac thumbs up here from someone with years of experience in IT systems development on virtually every platform.

Macs just get the job done, and give plenty of feedback. If you want the detailed "feedback" that you can get once you know how to use a PC, then you need to have the same knowledge of the mac OS.

For 99% of applications and users, that detailed feedback is unneccesary.
 
catchpole_11 said:
.. i have to disagree that macs jsut work though. they still find time to crash in photoshop at the worst times. lol.
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Nothing crashed more than my old PC workstation. It froze and died all the time with photoshop. It was a 2ghz, 1gb ram OS XP2000.
I tested a dual zeon PC with photoshop and it too did the same thing.

So we tried the Mac Pro 4 Core, 3gb RAM, and its never died once in photoshop.
 
Another Pro Mac response. I am an IT specialist, been using and working with computers since the early 80's.
I bought a Mac earlier this year...first time I've ever used one...bought a 2.8GHz iMac rather than a new PC...
Never looked back..I love it. I can actually just concern myself with using the applications on the computer rather than having to "work" the Operating System.
It did take some adjusting to (as a Windows/DOS user) and it is not quite as rock solid as people would have you believe (it's crashed a couple of times) but the Pro's far outweigh the Cons (and that's before you even start on the aesthetics of the machine, not to be dismissed when it sits in your living room).
 
catchpole_11 said:
as a quick example:

a 20" apple monitor is £350. you can get a decent one from any other brand for £150

to upgrade from 2gb mem to 4gb is £320 pounds through apple. You can get nice ram for about £50 for pc.

the same happens when you look at their prices for HDD's too.

and btw the 8 core is only 2 quads strapped together.
Click to expand...

I've just been looking at memory upgrades for the iMAC and Apple now chagre £120 to go from 2GB to 4GB . Still expensive but a lot less then before.
 
King_Boru said:
What a load crap. Vista can address more than 4GB of RAM on a 64bit system (look here). The limitation comes down to the motherboard. Most mainstream and even overclocker boards can only address 4GB's of RAM. Thats hardware limited, not software. If you actually have any idea what you are on about you will know that when you are running server/workstation/renderfarm systems which put gigaflops of information through themselves that the more memory you have and the greater processing power (i.e multiple cores) the job is done a hell of a lot quicker.
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hey dont get stressed out man. my main point, which is correct is that if 99% of people stuck more than 4gb of ram into their pc they wouldnt be getting the benefits. i know the difference of 64-bit but microsoft are stll playing with the differences to 32-bit and i hear that not all software works with it yet. obviously if you're running servers and everything then you need the extra power. but i thought we were just talking about the everyday pc/mac system which most people will run. obviously if you get a super fast 8core system with everything in it, its going to run very fast. but a pc would too.

the point about it not crashing, well i hear time and time again that macs dont crash. but they just do. my main issues are when i'm scanning multiple negs at a high dpi, the mac just seeems to give out. this may be due to hundreds of students abusing the macs everyday and software issues. but thats the experience i have with them. hey, maybe if it was a pc, it would crash even more.

the thing you will find everywhere is that people will go too far out of their way to stand up for macs, (i dont think anyone here has said one single bad thing about them ) but people with pc's dont generally bother. and i wouldnt have if i didnt feel the man was getting such one sided advice. its not true that mac's are 100% perfect and brilliant, which is what you would think from sitting here.

this is why i don't bother with the mac argument anymore, and i can't believe i got dragged into it again. :bonk: but like i said, each to his own. your mac works for you, my pc works for me.

p.s. if you want my macbook.....SOLD.
 
whiteflyer said:
I've just been looking at memory upgrades for the iMAC and Apple now chagre £120 to go from 2GB to 4GB . Still expensive but a lot less then before.
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Mac absolutely reams you on stuff like memory upgrades. When I bought my Macbook, I just got the lowest available RAM, bought two 1GB sticks for tons cheaper and installed it myself (really, it's not hard: a screwdriver, a panel, a click, and done).

I was even able to resell the 2x500MB sticks for a cool $40 (this is not as easy as it sounds -- few people are looking for something under 1 GB).
 
andrewc said:
Serious? - if you still have your macbook, pm me some specs and a price.
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erm actually i cant really sell it. it's the middle spec one out of the three. but for the price i got it for i couldnt have gotten a similar spec laptop. the reason i like it is because it certainly is comfortable to use (i mainly use it for taking notes in lectures and writing essays) . the screen is way to small to do any editing or anything. but it is handy to shoot tethered with too. the only reason i would stick with it over a laptop is because most laptops i have used arent as nice to write with

anyway, i would like offer some sensible advice after all this. i would say if you're looking to get a mac, go and test it out, and play with it as much as you can before taking the plunge. but with all this pro-mac stuff happening i cant see how you would be dissapointed (even though i was). i guess one of the reason i like pc's so much is because of the fact theres so many options, and theres so much going on. like Mark Morb said, you sometimes have to run the system yourself. but i like that, makes me feel like im more in control if i know what everything is doing.

one small problem i had with my mac sums it up for me. when i purchased it the wireless wasnt working with my router. now if this happened on pc it would have given me some feedback telling me where the problem may lay. but with the mac it literally just wouldnt connect. but it wouldnt tell me why. so i had to use my pc to get on the internet and do some research to see what was happening. turns out it was the firmwire in the router liked mac's as much as i do. so i had to download a new one and isntall it (all with my pc, ;)) anyway i got it working in the end. but if i didnt have the means to get these updates i would have been stumped.

so, this is defiantely the last post i will make on this thread. good luck with which ever you chose. and i hope what ever it is works well for you (y)
 
I have used Mac's personally and professionally for 8 years. And PC's in a business environment for much longer.

Over that time I have seen the two platforms converge in many ways. The differences between them are negligible now in practical terms for the average user.

The decision may be influenced by your technical skill: it is MUCH easier to get help for PC problems than it is for Mac. If you are not that adept yourself, this can be a big factor.

I prefer the styling and build quality of Macs. I also prefer the software layouts that Apple use. They have, however, begun to move increasingly towards the Windows nanny state with "are you sure" dialogue boxes all to prevalent.

Macs DO crash. They always have. If you run a lot of different programs, conflicts will occur and you will get unexpected glitches.

Macs are quite a bit more expensive than similarly specified PC's. That said I have had fewer problems and breakdowns with Mac's than with our office PC's. Not much in it though.

If your children are to use them it can cause problems, as most schools in Europe and the UK seem to prefer the windows environment.
 
I took the plunge into the world of Macs a few years ago with an old iMac 400mhz. I was soon hooked and bought a Mac Mini when they came out, then the present iMac 20".
They really do just work, take up very little space and are extremely quiet. I never turn mine off, so, no start up delays that I always had with PC`s
Macs, if you leave them on all the time ( not sleep), run maintenance scripts overnight and keep everything hunky dory for you.

But, if you enjoy defragging hard drives, getting rid of spyware and updating anti virus, then Macs are not for you!

I still have pc`s too, but only turn them on to update AVG! ;)

There are still a couple of programs I need to run on a PC, and for that reason, I run XP on Bootcamp. But most of these programs are being updated to work on Macs, soon, I will clear XP off my hard drive for ever.

Theres nothing wrong with a PC, but I certainly dont think they are particularly better than a Mac for doing anything, I just prefer the Mac environment.

They play games too. I recently bought a couple of PC games( MOH Airborne and Colin Mcrae Dirt) and had to upgrade my 2 year old PC, at a cost of £380 so i could play them. I then tried them both on my iMac using XP on bootcamp. Of course they worked fine!

I still think the PPC Macs were more reliable than the new Intel Macs which are now using regular components. Hardwarewise, they are more like Pc`s than Macs used to be, But OSX is the Jewel in the Crown, and is light years ahead of any version of Windows.
Allan
 
All the arguments and debate here regarding upgrades, RAM, HDD's etc are somewhat irrelevant. Of course both PC's and Mac's can be upgraded - and in either case, it is cheaper to upgrade yourself than to use the branded method of upgrading. If, for example, you have a Dell laptop or PC, and you decide to upgrade the RAM or HDD through Dell themselves, then this is more likely to be the more expensive option, exactly the same as if you have a Mac and you decide to upgrade using Apple - then this is more likely to be the more expensive option. Solution = research and upgrade yourself... :) I did with my Mac for both RAM and HDD, I have double the RAM and an internal HDD of 250GB for a lot less than I would have paid if I purchased the same spec through Apple. So - the same things apply regardless of Mac or PC based machines.

However, the point I'd like to make is that there seems to be a significantly high proportion of people who, once they have moved across to the Mac platform, they simply do not even consider going back. Yes, it is difficult to compare these stats, as there are no similar ones to compare to - but it must say something about Macs and the OSx, that once experienced, a massively high proportion of these users won't even consider resorting back to MS/PC's. This doesn't mean PC's are useless, but that the experience of using a Mac is seen to be a better experience than using a PC.
 
You lot are going to cost me a fortune! :razz:

I was happily trundling along with my trusty PC without a care in the world... until I found this thread which eventually led me to the Apple site and before I knew what I was doing I found myself speccing up a new mac! Fortunately, the Sauvignon Blanc wore off before I hit the 'BUY' button but here I am this morning, in the cold light of day, still seriously considering it!

Am tossing up between an iMac and a Mac Pro at the minute but it's early days yet, I need to think this through. I have a couple of initial questions that spring to mind though... It may be obvious to you Mac :geek:'s out there... but can I use a second monitor with an iMac or do I need to go for the 'full fat' Mac Pro for multimonitor support? Also, I have CS3 Design Premium for PC (bought and paid for!), would it mean buying a whole new copy for Mac or do Adobe have any sort of exchange scheme when changing platforms?

Flashy
 
You can indeed run a 2nd monitor off an iMac, The iMac doesnt have a regular DVI socket so you have to buy an adapter £15. I currently run my 50" Sony HDTV using a MiniDVI-DVI adapter and then a DVI-HDMI lead, it can be configured as either Mirror or extended desktop, obviously youd want extended. The Macpro lets you easily take this 1 step further though and in the past ive run 4x 24" screens off mine.

As for exchanging the Adobe license, im sure someone in this very thread has mentioned that they have done that, but, if its a major issue, id recommend searching on the Adobe forums and emailing Adobe directly. I know Adobe Lightroom license is valid for both platforms, which is nice.
 
You can transfer the PC licence for CS3 over to the Mac - job done!

as for the Mac vs PC debate, I see it like this...people have classic cars that they like tinkering with before they can go off in them, others like modern cars that they can just get in and drive - nothing wrong with that, but it's always going to be a debatable issue!
 
just found this which may be of help...it's the customer service number for Adobe:
cust service
 
You're not making it easier to keep my hands out of my wallet!
MUST RESIST... MUST RESIST... :LOL:
 
Flashman said:
You're not making it easier to keep my hands out of my wallet!
MUST RESIST... MUST RESIST... :LOL:
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Am in the same boat here... have visited the Apple site every day this week, and the store on Saturday, and and finding it ever harder not to press that buy button!! :help:
 
Darryn said:
As for exchanging the Adobe license, im sure someone in this very thread has mentioned that they have done that, but, if its a major issue, id recommend searching on the Adobe forums and emailing Adobe directly. I know Adobe Lightroom license is valid for both platforms, which is nice.
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I'm sure I read that Lightroom is the first product that comes with versions for Mac and Windows on the same disc.
 
Two questions if you please.

What's the advantage of a Mac pro £1700 no monitor over a iMac £1500 with screen


Also on my pc I have a 4 port USB card in an expansion slot, can this be used in a Mac Pro or do they do have apple only expansion slots .
 
whiteflyer said:
Two questions if you please.

What's the advantage of a Mac pro £1700 no monitor over a iMac £1500 with screen


Also on my pc I have a 4 port USB card in an expansion slot, can this be used in a Mac Pro or do they do have apple only expansion slots .
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I don't have one yet but my understanding is:

The Mac Pro has more expandability... ie you can add PCI cards for RAID, hardware video decoder etc etc. You can also choose faster processors and they can take more RAM.

Mac's have USB ports, same as a PC, so should work fine...
 
If your looking to buy a Mac and not a student (ie you dont get student discount) take a look at the apple refurb part of their web page, if the system you want is on their you can make a huge saving, most of the stuff on there is brand new , it comes with the notmal apple warranty and you can add apple car as well, my Powermac G5 and Xserve Raid came from there, saved myself over £3K.
 
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