Thinking about converting to Macs

whiteflyer said:
Two questions if you please.

What's the advantage of a Mac pro £1700 no monitor over a iMac £1500 with screen


Also on my pc I have a 4 port USB card in an expansion slot, can this be used in a Mac Pro or do they do have apple only expansion slots .
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Basically, the Mac Pro's are more easily expandable; memory up to 32GB, storage 4 drive bays = around 4TB, and 3 PCI-Express slots. They have a completely different architecture to the iMacs being based around the Intel Xeon quad core processors, of which you can have two, giving up to 8 cores. I guess they are more a power machine if that tickles your fancy.

The iMac's are based around the Intel Core2Duo processors and are well equipped to deal with most photo editing tasks etc.

Remeber, that if you already have a screen that you are happy with then you would be able to use it on your MacPro or as a second monitor on the iMac.

As mentioned above, the MacPro has PCI-Express slots, so chances are that your card won't work...the MacPro has 5 powered USB slots anyway which may be enough (they also have one unpowered on the keyboard as well)?
 
Oops sorry, read the USB part wrongly... I assumed it was a straight USB connection, not via PCI... sorry!
 
Just a quick note to those running a Mac laptop. There is a script which is run on Mac desktops which "clean" your system automatically daily, weekly and monthly. For some reason, the laptops do not run it. It cleans cache files, logs,... etc,... I run it on a weekly basis for my Macbook and it provides a noticeable improvement to system response.

To perform the action you need to open the 'Terminal' application in the 'Utilities' folder in the 'Applications' sub directory on your hard drive. You will be presented with a white box. Type the following (one by one), you will be asked to enter your system password (i.e: user account password) before the script runs.

1st: sudo periodic daily
2nd: sudo periodic weekly (may take a while to complete)
3rd: sudo periodic monthly (may take a while to complete)

Disclaimer: I will take no responsibility for anything going wrong from anybody running this script.
 
King_Boru said:
Disclaimer: I will take no responsibility for anything going wrong from anybody running this script.
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Why would anything go wrong from running this script...? Just curious as to why you felt the need to protect yourself...? What's the risk here...?

I am happy to do this on my Mac, but is there a risk in people running these scripts...?
 
theMusicMan said:
Why would anything go wrong from running this script...? Just curious as to why you felt the need to protect yourself...? What's the risk here...?
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There is always 'the just in case factor'. Especially when computers are involved.
 
The latest Mac Book's (not pro)... are they capable of running Photoshop CS3?
 
Weggy said:
The latest Mac Book's (not pro)... are they capable of running Photoshop CS3?
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Errrm, sorry... but that's a daft question... :) Of course they are:thinking:

But... can an XP machine run Mac apps = no... ;) Not that CS3 is a windows app, but Macs can run all PC apps. Just not sure why you'd ask that question.
 
theMusicMan said:
Errrm, sorry... but that's a daft question... :) Of course they are:thinking:

But... can an XP machine run Mac apps = no... ;) Not that CS3 is a windows app, but Macs can run all PC apps. Just not sure why you'd ask that question.
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Look, I've never had a Mac, have been a PC man all my life, including being MCSE qualified and working in IT...! :help: So it's a scary decision when I know nothing about Mac's!

Was looking at getting an iMac, which look the nuts... that screen is just so colourful and crisp. But then got thinking about laptops... so useful for processing on the move and uploading images etc.... :thinking:
 
Weggy said:
But then got thinking about laptops... so useful for processing on the move and uploading images etc.... :thinking:
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if you got the laptop then when you get back home you have the option to connect it to a keyboard/mouse/external monitor to make things easier - two computers in one, a desktop and a laptop! You can use any PC monitor and keyboard/mouse as well...
 
OK - am almost ready to buy a Macbook.

If you plug in 2nd monitor, does it become a dual screen system or does the built in screen shut down? I have a Pantone Huey (not Pro) - would both monitors be calibrated under the same profile, or could I leave one as a default setting and just have one profiled?

Is there a list of essential software that every PC convert should have? I don't really want to join a Mac forum as I suspect they'll all be bearded, sandal wearing Mac-zealots.
 
andrewc said:
Is there a list of essential software that every PC convert should have?
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My biggest concern when I made the switch to Macs was all my PC software, some of which doesn't have Mac equivilents. Nowadays it just isn't an issue, you can just run virtual machine software (I chose VMWare Fusion) and effectively have a PC running on your Mac. You don't even have to reboot - it's brilliant! :D
 
One very positive point about Mac's are the Apple stores. I'm looking to upgrade my 2 1/2 year old Dell. Nothing wrong with it Runs XP pro without problems, but with increasing file sizes it's getting sluggish. Now I need a faster machine. preferably 4 cores. OK I look around and really all I can find in the PC stakes is Dell. OK no problem provided you can actually speak to someone who understands what you want. ( No I don't want Vista I want good old XP Pro). OK I can get that if I opt for a Precision model.

Now on a whim went to the Apple shop in the Trafford center. Guess what Mac Pro 4 Core on display, and it's got CS3 loaded. Spent nearly an hour running through some PP work. No one came to throw me off. After a while someone inquired if I had the information I needed. I explained what I was looking for. "No Problem, give us a ring make an appointment bring some of you images down and see how well it really works" " No sorry we don't have Lightroom ( funny that) but you can run them through Aperture." Imagine that at PC World !!!

I've no axe to grind with Windows OS, as Vista seems to work OK on New machines, but what has really clinched it is that the new version of Lightroom will run in 64 bit on Intel Macs.

I was really impressed with the Apple shop. Haven't been treated so well at a computer store for a very very long time
 
Weggy said:
Look, I've never had a Mac, have been a PC man all my life, including being MCSE qualified and working in IT...! :help: So it's a scary decision when I know nothing about Mac's!

Was looking at getting an iMac, which look the nuts... that screen is just so colourful and crisp. But then got thinking about laptops... so useful for processing on the move and uploading images etc.... :thinking:
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Sure, hence the use of smilies in my post.(y)

andrewc said:
OK - am almost ready to buy a Macbook.

If you plug in 2nd monitor, does it become a dual screen system or does the built in screen shut down? I have a Pantone Huey (not Pro) - would both monitors be calibrated under the same profile, or could I leave one as a default setting and just have one profiled?
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You have a choice of using one or both, using as the same, or different, even of moving the system bar to the other monitor... your call.
 
Norwich PC World has an Apple section. Its classed as an Apple Shop, but they were unable to demonstate CS3 / Aperture and the sales monkey didn't really know what Aperture was for.

May have to visit the proper Apple Shop in Cambridge.
 
In the beginning, Macs enjoyed an advantage because they didn't use the Intel chip set and were better suited to arty things. Apple has moved to the Intel chip set, so that competitive advantage has disappeared.

It seems to me that most Mac users are fervent adherents to the Apple religion. My question is "Why are 95% of the pc users atheists?" They can't all be wrong.

rh1944
 
rh1944 said:
In the beginning, Macs enjoyed an advantage because they didn't use the Intel chip set and were better suited to arty things. Apple has moved to the Intel chip set, so that competitive advantage has disappeared.

It seems to me that most Mac users are fervent adherents to the Apple religion. My question is "Why are 95% of the pc users atheists?" They can't all be wrong.

rh1944
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There are a whole lot of reasons. I suspect that a lot of Windows users simply haven't given the alternative any/much consideration. When I used Windows computers I was satisfied with what I could do and took the bad (crashes, spyware, etc) with the good (all the advantages that come with using a computer rather than living as a hermit).

But since using a Mac I don't see myself ever going back to Windows. In my opinion, if Windows represents the proverbial curve then Apple are WELL ahead right now.

Those who do use Mac have some very good reasons:

The Objective: Just take the operating system for example. Do a quick Google of Vista vs. Leopard. IT bloggers the internet over give Leopard the edge (and many give a whole lot more than just an edge). There are countless other smaller points, but let's face it, the OS is the platform on which the computer runs and Apple's old OS (Tiger) was arguably ahead of Vista... and then they launched Leopard...

That's what I call a comparative advantage!

The Subjective: Since using Macs I have experienced absolutely minimal problems. Software runs like a dream; it's quick, doesn't crash, etc. Macs look nicer - not a big deal, but let's face it, anyone with more than a passing interest in technology does appreciate the aesthetic side.

A personal anecdote about Time Machine: My Macbook was stolen a few days ago. Luckily I use the amazing, life-saving, genius program that is "Time Machine" (first introduced with the Leopard OS). You plug an external HD into your Mac and let Time Machine back everything up. I had done that (unfortunately not for a month or two though). So when I went to buy my new Macbook I bought a new copy of Microsoft Office. Turns out I didn't need to. I plugged in the external HD and it literally updated my Macbook to exactly what it had been before. All the applications were as they had been. All the documents. Everything loaded into its proper folder (eg. iTunes music was already in iTunes, etc). It was as though I hadn't got a new laptop (except it had a gig more of RAM and a better processor so it's even sharper!)

Oh and as a student I get 14% off their stuff. And get Apple Care for £50 (that's coverage for three years on all hardware issues).

So to answer your question: I don't think that Windows users are wrong... they just haven't experienced both sides. I suspect that most people who DO see both sides would swing to Apple. In fact, that seems to be the trend in terms of sales right now.

Oh and to anyone considering an iMac: I really don't think you can go wrong. If I had a fixed abode I would buy an iMac in the blink of an eye. The screen itself is wonderful, and everything else about them follows suit. Unfortunately I need the flexibility to move around so stick with my Macbook!
 
Andrew

I've noticed that quite a lot of PC worlds now have an Apple section. Must say something, but I don't know what!


John C
 
andrewc said:
If you plug in 2nd monitor, does it become a dual screen system or does the built in screen shut down? I have a Pantone Huey (not Pro) - would both monitors be calibrated under the same profile, or could I leave one as a default setting and just have one profiled?in a Mac forum as I suspect they'll all be bearded, sandal wearing Mac-zealots.
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it'll automatically detect the second display and set it as a secondary...dead easy to change which is which though. Unplug the monitor and it automatically goes back to the laptop display as the primary and will remember how you had it set up next time you connect the monitor

i've got a Huey at work...I've used it to successfully calibrate both of my monitors on the Mac (not had too much success doing this on Vista mind you :shrug:) - you'll obviously need to download the mac drivers though!
 
rh1944 said:
In the beginning, Macs enjoyed an advantage because they didn't use the Intel chip set and were better suited to arty things. Apple has moved to the Intel chip set, so that competitive advantage has disappeared.
Click to expand...

I think that is part of the reason that Apple are having a bit of a resurgence at the moment as well because people now have the choice when they buy Apple hardware to use either OS, independently or at the same time! When they were based around the PowerPC chips etc. this was possible but it certainly wasn't as easy as or as fast it is now. Also, the old chips they used weren't updated as often as the Intel/AMD equivalent and Apple seemingly started to loose out on the "Megahertz" wars that PC's enjoyed(?) causing people not to consider their hardware because of their perceived slow speed...they didn't compare the fact that one was RISC the other CISC.
 
Mac OS is a whole lot more efficient that Windows!

My main computer is a Mac Pro Quad Xeon with 6Gb Ram and 3TB of storage hooked up to a Dell 2407 monitor but I also have an iBook (12", 1.33GHz, upgraded to 1.5Gb Ram and a 250GB hard drive) (again see my site) plus a Mac mini, dual pentium 3GHz PC, etc etc etc etc.

The reason I mention these is so that I can do a comparison. My Mac pro is blindingly fast and does pretty much everything in CS3 instantly. Now the iBook has the advantage of extreme portability so I will take it to work or out and about. I can still use CS3 on it and it is still VERY usable. YES a 1.33GHz single core with 1.5Gb and it runs CS3 faultlessly without any speed problems. It just goes to show how good Mac OS is !

Although I think it is absolutely great I will probably be selling it as I have been saving up for a 17" Macbook Pro with 1920x1200 screen which I hope to get next month. It'll be a right corker! especially when I upgrade it to 4Gb and stick a 500Gb hard drive in it. (or do I wait till summer for the QUAD cord macbook pro that it rather likely!).

I did mention earlier in the thread my new web site - IT IS NOT YET FIT FOR PUBLIC SCRUTINY but I will give you lot a sneak preview and mention it again - www.upgradeyourmac.co.uk

I am not a Mac fan boy or anti PC. I have a very powerful PC and have owned a PC since the 286 was a boy but having switched about 18 months ago none of my PCs get much of an outing! In fact I have just totally re-built a Compaq laptop which I will probably be selling too!

Anyway the best advice is get yourself down to an Apple shop and really give one a decent try. Take your camera and give it some welly! Does it do what you want?


The question has been asked about Mac Pro v iMac well the Mac pro is EIGHT core against DUAL core for the iMac (this make a difference in CS3) - yes I know you can downgrade to a Quad core!

The memory is highly expandable (see my sight) on the Mac Pro (up to 32Gb on ANY Mac pro) - On the iMac you get 2 slots so you have to bin the included ram to upgrade and cannot upgrade again without binning the memory you bought! (maximum 4Gb)

There are 4 hard drive bays (5 if you look at my site) on the Mac Pro so you can buy it with the smallest drive and VERY easily install at least 3 more drives without any problems at all. (You can even use one to boot windows with the included bootcamp software)

There are 2 optical drive bay using standard 5.25" drives so you can fit either another IDE drive (or a SATA drive if you see my site) - this includes a standard blu-ray drive.

You can you 2 2560x1600 30" monitors off the standard graphics card on the Pro and choose your monitors

You can add further PCI-E internal upgrade cards to the Pro.

I would like to see something between the mini and the pro maybe just the Apple Mac ! with maybe 2 drive bays and an optical bay plus 4 DDR2 slots and a single processor socket containing a Quad core processor!

Albedo said:
The Objective: Just take the operating system for example. Do a quick Google of Vista vs. Leopard. IT bloggers the internet over give Leopard the edge (and many give a whole lot more than just an edge). There are countless other smaller points, but let's face it, the OS is the platform on which the computer runs and Apple's old OS (Tiger) was arguably ahead of Vista... and then they launched Leopard...
Click to expand...

Oh and I will be doing a how-to comparison chart with XP, Vista, Tiger and Leopard explaining how to do all manner of different things on all 4 OSes to make changing much easier. Things like printing to a network printer; installing a printer; formatting a hard drive; copy, move and delete; permissions etc etc etc.....
 
cowasaki said:
I did mention earlier in the thread my new web site - IT IS NOT YET FIT FOR PUBLIC SCRUTINY but I will give you lot a sneak preview and mention it again - www.upgradeyourmac.co.uk
Click to expand...

:notworthy::notworthy::notworthy:

You sir are a GOD ... :love:

You sir are a PITA ... :razz:



Why oh why didn't I see this first time around ... :cautious: ... :bang:



Nb ... if you can work this lot out you will be even higher than god-like ... :naughty:




:p
 
Venomator said:


:notworthy::notworthy::notworthy:

You sir are a GOD ... :love:

You sir are a PITA ... :razz:



Why oh why didn't I see this first time around ... :cautious: ... :bang:



Nb ... if you can work this lot out you will be even higher than god-like ... :naughty:




:p
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I have just uploaded a new version with a few changes (including the start of the comparison page). I am on day nine of fourteen 12 hour days in a row so i've not had much chance to sort it. I would like to get everything I have mentioned onto the page by the end of the month. I can do everything I have said (and have done) but its getting the time to explain it all. I also need to take apart all my computers to remove all the upgrades I have done in order to photograph them !!

Unless anyone in Lancashire wants their Apple upgrading for free (other than the parts) and I can do theirs whilst photographing it ie iBook, Mac pro etc hard drive, memory.....

Anyway off to bed now back up at 5:30 for day 10 !
 
Looks like and excellent site.... Bookmarked
 
Flashman said:
Even the latest games?

Just trying desperately to find an excuse NOT to make the change now! :D

Flashy
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Unfortunately Flashman I am not a gamer so can't advise, sorry...!! :)

Someone here I am sure will enlighten you though.
 
this is the current range of options for the mac pro graphics cards:

ATI Radeon HD 2600 XT with 256MB of GDDR3 memory and two dual-link DVI ports
NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT with 512MB of GDDR3 memory and two dual-link DVI ports
NVIDIA Quadro FX 5600 with 1.5GB of GDDR3 memory, two dual-link DVI ports, and one stereo 3D port

and these are the graphics for the current iMac:

20-inch model with 2.4GHz processor
ATI Radeon HD 2400 XT graphics processor with 128MB of GDDR3 memory

20-inch model with 2.66GHz processor
ATI Radeon HD 2600 PRO graphics processor with 256MB of GDDR3 memory

24-inch model with 2.8GHz or 3.06GHz processor, one of the following:
ATI Radeon HD 2600 PRO graphics processor with 256MB of GDDR3 memory
NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GS graphics processor with 512MB of GDDR3 memory

I'm no gamer, but hopefully this will help in determining whether the current crop of PC games are compatible with any of these cards and what the performance is likley to be.
 
The HD 2400XT and 2600Pro are not the best for gaming. They'll do. The 8800GS / GT are more than capable and the Quadro FX 5600 is not designed for gaming. Its used for animation, motion graphics, 3d visualization (I use one in my Mac PRo) and other extremely intensive graphics work.
 
So that's basically a 'Yes' then, Mac's will play PC games. Not that I'm an avid gamer, but I was rather taken with Portal recently! :D

Ah well, bang goes another reason not to make the change. :)

Flashy
 
Flashman said:
So that's basically a 'Yes' then, Mac's will play PC games. Not that I'm an avid gamer, but I was rather taken with Portal recently! :D

Ah well, bang goes another reason not to make the change. :)

Flashy
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indeed they will...they will play them as well as PC equipped with the same card, which is why I gave the list of cards - would be interesting to see how they play the games virtualised :thinking: i.e. would the frame rate be as good as running it booted up into Windows......
 
I play Eve Online using the Crossover Games client and its very good, frame rates are high enough to be able to comfortabley play, but there is a FPS hit compared to running it natively under a Bootcamped Windows XP... ~5fps

Crossover games currently supports a couple of dozen games, this includes Steam, which in itself can be 30+ games.
 
Oh and if you buy a Mac pro to use for serious work but wanted to play PC games you can buy a standard PCI-E graphics card for a PC and fit this to the Mac pro as well as the Apple card. You can then plug the output of the Apple card to 1 input on your monitor and the output of the PC graphics card to the second input. Then use bootcamp to install XP/Vista on a second hard drive. Now as you boot normally it will only pick up the Apple card and will only work with this in MacOS then when you boot XP it will display the image from the Apple card on first booting until Windows starts to boot where the PC card will start to display an image too. Once booted into Windows the PC card will work fine!

You cannot however replace the Apple card with a PC graphics card or MacOS will not run. Also even when you are running Windows the Apple card will be the only one working whilst EFI does its work and you are selecting your os.

If you do plan on using the above (which does work) you need to bare in mind that not every card will work this way and you need to disable the Apple card under windows (Windows will use BOTH cards and give you 2-4 displays otherwise!). Oh and if you do please PM me with the EXACT make, model, chipset, speed setting etc etc of the card so I can add a list of working cards to my site.
 
cowasaki said:
I have just uploaded a new version with a few changes (including the start of the comparison page). I am on day nine of fourteen 12 hour days in a row so i've not had much chance to sort it. I would like to get everything I have mentioned onto the page by the end of the month. I can do everything I have said (and have done) but its getting the time to explain it all. I also need to take apart all my computers to remove all the upgrades I have done in order to photograph them !!

Unless anyone in Lancashire wants their Apple upgrading for free (other than the parts) and I can do theirs whilst photographing it ie iBook, Mac pro etc hard drive, memory.....

Anyway off to bed now back up at 5:30 for day 10 !
Click to expand...

Sorry m8 ... :shrug: ... I think you have got the wrong end of my stick ... :D




Get your brain engaged and have a re-think ... :LOL:





:p
 
Venomator said:


:LOL: ... sorry m8 ...

See HERE and all will become clear ... :cautious: ... I hope ... ;)


I think a huge :ty: is definitely in order ... (y)


:p
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Oh yes, the old Safari confuser ! Yes I need this for my bank. I am easily confused at the moment due to far too little sleep in the last 2 weeks :LOL:

I like your choice of new computer. I have been working solidly to buy my new one and it looks like being the hi res version of the 17" macbook pro and upping the memory to 4Gb and the HD to 500Gb. The Air was a close 2nd, it really was but the killer was the lack of FW800 and onboard Ram although I suppose I would have lived without them!

I have had an offer for my 1.33GHz iBook 1.5Gb Ram and 250Gb HD of £375 so its really looking like a goer next month.

My only concern is that this model is really 18 months old and I just know they will release a quad core one 15 days later :bang:
 
cowasaki said:
Oh yes, the old Safari confuser ! Yes I need this for my bank. I am easily confused at the moment due to far too little sleep in the last 2 weeks :LOL:

I like your choice of new computer. I have been working solidly to buy my new one and it looks like being the hi res version of the 17" macbook pro and upping the memory to 4Gb and the HD to 500Gb. The Air was a close 2nd, it really was but the killer was the lack of FW800 and onboard Ram although I suppose I would have lived without them!

I have had an offer for my 1.33GHz iBook 1.5Gb Ram and 250Gb HD of £375 so its really looking like a goer next month.

My only concern is that this model is really 18 months old and I just know they will release a quad core one 15 days later :bang:
Click to expand...


I could not believe, after all the trouble I was having with this annoying little issue, how easy it was sorted within minutes of visiting your web site ... :eek: ... you have made my life a lot easier and my relationship with my Air is now 110% complete ... :love:

As for upgrading RAM do you not think it will be possible to upgrade the Air fairly soon then ... :shrug:

I am not sure I know what the reference to FW800 means though ... :bonk:

Good luck with your new purchase whichever route you go ... (y) ... but I wouldn't swap my Air for anything ... :thinking: ... until they make a sexier version ... :LOL:





:p
 
Venomator said:



I could not believe, after all the trouble I was having with this annoying little issue, how easy it was sorted within minutes of visiting your web site ... :eek: ... you have made my life a lot easier and my relationship with my Air is now 110% complete ... :love:

As for upgrading RAM do you not think it will be possible to upgrade the Air fairly soon then ... :shrug:

I am not sure I know what the reference to FW800 means though ... :bonk:

Good luck with your new purchase whichever route you go ... (y) ... but I wouldn't swap my Air for anything ... :thinking: ... until they make a sexier version ... :LOL:


:p
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No sorry the ram is soldered to the motherboard on the air so it will be virtually impossible to upgrade.

I meant FireWire 800. I am looking for a large 3TB external drive array so I will need FW800 to get the most from it.

The Air is really nice though! If you have your camera handy over the next few weeks some pictures of your new toy for my site would be appreciated. I have 3 Macbooks (well my wife and daughters have them), a Mac mini, a Mac pro and an iBook plus my Macbook Pro so I can get those pictures!

Which version did you get the SSD one?
 
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