TLR recommendations?

auntiemaryscanary

auntiemaryscanary

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I've had a Lubitel 166B for 3 years and despite much practice never managed to focus it with confidence so ended up guestimating distance to focus. One of the release knobs to hold the take up spool fell off and got lost but I managed to bodge it so it was usable. The final straw being that the focusing lens no longer engages with the taking lens - I can intermittently get them to re-engage but of course I've no idea if the focus is accurate so it's truly broken. I did manage to get some good images with it and could get another for £30-40 but I think Im ready for at least step up or 2 in terms usability, reliability and guality.

I've seen all the rave reviews of the Yashica Mat 124g but I've also seen what that's done to the prices! So what I'm looking for is a reasonably priced TLR that's better than the Lubitel series. Some essentials are it has to be 120, focusable with relative ease and be 6x6 framing (optional masking to 6x4.5 is fine).

Does the combined knowledge of F&C section have any recommendations that might meet my requirements? I appreciate that these type of threads are always subjective but any ideas would very helpful.
 
Unfortunately, prices of TLR's have, as you say, blossomed.

I have a Rolleicord IV, which is a cracker, especially with Tri-X, and a couple of Mamiyaflex's, equally good, but massively built, industrial, especially compared to the Rollei and Lubitel. The Mamiyas have the benefit of interchangeable lenses, if you need that. On the basis of cost, if you don't mind the fixed focal length, a Rolleicord would be a good step up from the Lubitel.

I had a Lubitel 2 for a while and it was an interesting camera, further on I bought a Seagull, built like a brick s*** house but rather unreliable. To date my preference for 6x6 is Mamiyaflex.

I can't say much about Yashica Mat, but I believe they are well made and great to use.
 
Was there a reason why you wanted a TLR and not a 6 X4.5 SLR e.g. Bronica and Mamiya.....at least one thing in their favour and with the price of film........you get 15 shots.
 
My only TLR experience is with a Mamiya C330f, which I was actually given as no-one wanted to buy it... It's heavy (as these things go) but very versatile. I just looked at WYC to get an idea of prices, and it seems a Rolleicord might be the least expensive option. Note I didn't say "cheapest"!.

From memory, there was a discussion a little while ago on here where TLRs came up, and someone (John Margetts, I think) spoke favourably of (again, I think) the Minolta TLR.
 
I've got a Zeiss Ikoflex TLR, which is lovely, and was reasonably priced.

These have been described by some as well engineered as Rolleiflex, but at a fraction of the price. Not having handled a Rolleiflex, I can't confirm that.
 
Found something:

www.talkphotography.co.uk

Want to try MF. Which camera to go for?

So if I wanted to try out medium format photography, what camera would be a good compromise for a complete film novice? I'm not after some crazy resolution, I find resolution on my FF digital is quite enough. What I'm after is 1) fun with a vintage camera 2) that legendary 'MF film look' 3)...
www.talkphotography.co.uk www.talkphotography.co.uk
 
Sleepers and therefor cheaper, which are worth looking at are...
  • SEM: French made, simplistic but surprisingly nice.
  • Seagull: Chinese made, early ones got a bad reputation so the much nicer later models can often be found cheap.
  • Early Yashica TLRs such as the 635 (especially if it lacks the sought after 35mm adapter) can be excellent bargains.
  • Flexaret: Meopta's answer to the Rolleis. Very nice, especially the later ones. The quirky cosmetics are loved by some and hated by others.
The important thing to check with any TLR is whether it has an originally fitted fresnel screen. Too many after market conversions knock out the focussing.
 
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PeterSpencer said:
Unfortunately, prices of TLR's have, as you say, blossomed.

I have a Rolleicord IV, which is a cracker, especially with Tri-X, and a couple of Mamiyaflex's, equally good, but massively built, industrial, especially compared to the Rollei and Lubitel. The Mamiyas have the benefit of interchangeable lenses, if you need that. On the basis of cost, if you don't mind the fixed focal length, a Rolleicord would be a good step up from the Lubitel.

I had a Lubitel 2 for a while and it was an interesting camera, further on I bought a Seagull, built like a brick s*** house but rather unreliable. To date my preference for 6x6 is Mamiyaflex.

I can't say much about Yashica Mat, but I believe they are well made and great to use.
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Thanks @PeterSpencer . A Rolliecord of some description is something I'd kind of thought might be an option and I'll look into that further. They seem to be more in my price range.

I won't discount Mamiyaflex but I reckon they may too pricey for me.

What you say about a Seagull seems to rule them out for me.
 
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Now, this is a little counter to what you were asking but I had issues with the focus of my 166b, it never seemed to line up with the viewing window. What I ended up doing, after my son dropped the camera and knocked off the knurled ring from the taking lens, was stick it on a tripod, use tracing paper (I think) to focus the taking lens, focussed the viewing lens and then stuck the knurled ring back on.
Distance scale on the viewing lens is still about right, and now the two of them are bang on together and its immensely easier to focus.
Maybe worth a try?
 
excalibur2 said:
Was there a reason why you wanted a TLR and not a 6 X4.5 SLR e.g. Bronica and Mamiya.....at least one thing in their favour and with the price of film........you get 15 shots.
Click to expand...

The main reason is initial upfront cost of purchase. I doubt I'd take more much more than 6-8 120 rolls a year and I'd dev, scan and wet print them myself. However thanks for the suggestions.
 
StephenM said:
My only TLR experience is with a Mamiya C330f, which I was actually given as no-one wanted to buy it... It's heavy (as these things go) but very versatile. I just looked at WYC to get an idea of prices, and it seems a Rolleicord might be the least expensive option. Note I didn't say "cheapest"!.

From memory, there was a discussion a little while ago on here where TLRs came up, and someone (John Margetts, I think) spoke favourably of (again, I think) the Minolta TLR.
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Thanks @StephenM . I'm was aware of the Mamiya C330 but a v quick check of the prices means it's not for me.

I'll have a look at Minolta TLRs. A second pointer towards Rolleicord is v helpful.
 
Boots said:
I've got a Zeiss Ikoflex TLR, which is lovely, and was reasonably priced.

These have been described by some as well engineered as Rolleiflex, but at a fraction of the price. Not having handled a Rolleiflex, I can't confirm that.
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Thanks @Boots . I'll add Zeiss Ikolfex TLR of my list to check.
 
StephenM said:
Found something:

www.talkphotography.co.uk

Want to try MF. Which camera to go for?

So if I wanted to try out medium format photography, what camera would be a good compromise for a complete film novice? I'm not after some crazy resolution, I find resolution on my FF digital is quite enough. What I'm after is 1) fun with a vintage camera 2) that legendary 'MF film look' 3)...
www.talkphotography.co.uk www.talkphotography.co.uk
Click to expand...
Thanks @StephenM . That's a good read which I'll study further. 1st thing I might reconsider is Voigtlander Brilliant - I'd just assumed they were rubbish based on them being cheap-ish. @Asha said he'd had one and seem to think they were alright (Diversion: Noticed he's not posted for a while, hope all is well for him in that there Europe).
 
VirtualAdept said:
Now, this is a little counter to what you were asking but I had issues with the focus of my 166b, it never seemed to line up with the viewing window. What I ended up doing, after my son dropped the camera and knocked off the knurled ring from the taking lens, was stick it on a tripod, use tracing paper (I think) to focus the taking lens, focussed the viewing lens and then stuck the knurled ring back on.
Distance scale on the viewing lens is still about right, and now the two of them are bang on together and its immensely easier to focus.
Maybe worth a try?
Click to expand...

Thanks @VirtualAdept . Might be worth a try as as it sits it's dead but my 166b knurled rings won't consistently engage even when I put the taking lens back on, so as it is I could try and focus both lenses as you describe but one twist everything slips again and focus co-ordination between lenses is non-existant.
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
Sleepers and therefor cheaper, which are worth looking at are...
  • SEM: French made, simplistic but surprisingly nice.
  • Seagull: Chinese made, early ones got a bad reputation so the much nicer later models can often be found cheap.
  • Early Yashica TLRs such as the 635 (especially if it lacks the sought after 35mm adapter) can be excellent bargains.
  • Flexaret: Meopta's answer to the Rolleis. Very nice, especially the later ones. The quirky cosmetics are loved by some and hated by others.
The important thing to check with any TLR is whether it has an originally fitted fresnel screen. Too many after market conversions knock out the focussing.
Click to expand...

Cheers @AndrewFlannigan

SEM is completely unknown to me so I'll have a look into those.

Seagull I can't say lights my fire.

I did wonder about early Yashicas TLR so will look at them.

I have had a quick look at the Meopta Flexaret VI & VII reviews (I have a soft spot for Meopta as I'm v impressed with both my Axomat and Ophemus enlargers). The appeal with one of the later Flexarets is the 6x4.5 mask, adapter for 35mm and a mechanical counter. The bit that somewhat puts me off a is their unique operation and spending money to see if I fall into the "love it" or "hate it" category.

Ta for the Fresnel screen tip too.
 
There are other lesser known brands out there too. I had a Lipka Rollop for a while and it took very nice pictures. Unfortunately it had a light leak that I was unable to resolve, so I sold it for repairs, otherwise I might have kept it despite having a 124G. It had a split prism in the finder which was really useful.
 
I have a soft spot for TLRs, I just love using them. My current one is a Mamiya C330S with a selection of lenses. Over the years I have owned several Yashica TLRs starting with an ancient Yashicaflex Model A and moving on to a D and then 635. All have been reliable and produced good images as well as being light and handling well. Certainly worth consideration.
 
Having used pertty much all of them my favorite was the Yashicamat 124g or the 635.(both I still have) The Rollie usually had a cracking lens but they seemed to be more fragile, The Mamiya even though more flexible never seemed as quite sharp, and I used about 6 different ones so I didn't have a rough one. It mostly comes down to personal choice though, none were terrible... well the Lubi wasn't great.
Actually you can cut off part of the back of the Lubitel and fit the back part of an old polaroid camera making a polalubitelski, no seriously I have one, I used it for testing studio lighting set ups back in the film days, wroked well too...
 
FishyFish said:
I had a Lipka Rollop for a while and it took very nice pictures.
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I'd forgotten the Rollop!

I bought one (secondhand) about 50 years ago as a backup camera. The thing that attracted me was the price: £8-10-6d if my memory is working. It sat in my bag for 6 months doing nothing until my main camera, a MPP Microcord, fell prey to "wind knob disease" and had to go to the repairer. The Rollop (a model II) turned out to be a very nice piece of kit and I used it at least as often as the Microcord for the next two or three years,

More information here: http://camera-wiki.org/wiki/Rollop
 
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The Mamiya C220 is often overlooked, uses the same lenses as the bigger, heavier, higher spec’d C330, you have to manually click the shutter unlike the 330 but once you’ve got the hang of it it’s a very capable camera.
 
auntiemaryscanary said:
The main reason is initial upfront cost of purchase. I doubt I'd take more much more than 6-8 120 rolls a year and I'd dev, scan and wet print them myself. However thanks for the suggestions.
Click to expand...
Well high prices are a PITA..but you only have to buy a good camera once and if you think you will be using film for years then the initial outlay drops per month...For me, I really couldn't afford my Pentax S3 in 1960 but dividing the cost per month over 60 years for using it, it's very little and I sometimes use it even now....all just a thought.;)
 
auntiemaryscanary said:
Thanks @VirtualAdept . Might be worth a try as as it sits it's dead but my 166b knurled rings won't consistently engage even when I put the taking lens back on, so as it is I could try and focus both lenses as you describe but one twist everything slips again and focus co-ordination between lenses is non-existant.
Click to expand...
My lubitel 2 used to do that, I found where the ring attached to the taking lens was warped.
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
I'd forgotten the Rollop!

I bought one (secondhand) about 50 years ago as a backup camera. The thing that attracted me was the price: £8-10-6d if my memory is working. It sat in my bag for 6 months doing nothing until my main camera, a MPP Microcord, fell prey to "wind knob disease" and had to go to the repairer. The Rollop (a model II) turned out to be a very nice piece of kit and I used it at least as often as the Microcord for the next two or three years,

More information here: http://camera-wiki.org/wiki/Rollop
Click to expand...

I wrote a fairly legthy post about mine on my blog here: https://steelcitysnapper.wordpress.com/2020/09/24/crash-bang-rollop-what-a-picture/

Plus acouple of follow-up's here: https://steelcitysnapper.wordpress.com/2020/10/26/beneath-the-flyover/ and here: https://steelcitysnapper.wordpress.com/2020/10/27/the-last-from-the-lipca/
 
StephenM said:
My only TLR experience is with a Mamiya C330f, which I was actually given as no-one wanted to buy it... It's heavy (as these things go) but very versatile. I just looked at WYC to get an idea of prices, and it seems a Rolleicord might be the least expensive option. Note I didn't say "cheapest"!.

From memory, there was a discussion a little while ago on here where TLRs came up, and someone (John Margetts, I think) spoke favourably of (again, I think) the Minolta TLR.
Click to expand...
It will have very been me and the camera would have been a Zeiss Ikon Ikoflex which is superb.
 
excalibur2 said:
Was there a reason why you wanted a TLR and not a 6 X4.5 SLR e.g. Bronica and Mamiya.....at least one thing in their favour and with the price of film........you get 15 shots.
Click to expand...
With a TLR you get a nice large waist-level viewfinder which has a major and positive effect on your compositional ability. Even if you use a waist-level finder on a 6x4.5 camera, the finder will be a lot smaller.
 
john.margetts said:
Even if you use a waist-level finder on a 6x4.5 camera, the finder will be a lot smaller.
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A lot depends on the camera design, in my experience.

I was very happy with the original Mamiya 645's waist level mode, that finder was bright enough to work in bright sunlight, although I think a lot was down to the relatively deep sides of the finder cover.
 
I'm not sure what your budget stretches to but I love my Mamiya C3 and would highly recommend one. Built like a tank so a good one should last.

Ffordes has one without lens for £145. The 80mm lens pops up a lot on the used market for a hundred or so.

I got mine at auction without seeing it in person and it turned out to be in superb condition. I paid about £150 I think with the 80mm lens and the 130mm lens included but I took a gamble of course.
 
Thanks for all your comments, replies and suggestions so far. I'll give them a good read, reply where appropriate and draw up a list of possibles for your perusal in the next few days. My time available for this be forum today has been and will continue to be very limited. Just didn't want you to think I hadn't appreciated what you had posted so far.
 
David_Mug said:
I have a soft spot for TLRs, I just love using them. My current one is a Mamiya C330S with a selection of lenses. Over the years I have owned several Yashica TLRs starting with an ancient Yashicaflex Model A and moving on to a D and then 635. All have been reliable and produced good images as well as being light and handling well. Certainly worth consideration.
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Thanks @David_Mug . I 've started looking into the "cheaper" Yashica TLRs.
 
excalibur2 said:
Well high prices are a PITA..but you only have to buy a good camera once and if you think you will be using film for years then the initial outlay drops per month...For me, I really couldn't afford my Pentax S3 in 1960 but dividing the cost per month over 60 years for using it, it's very little and I sometimes use it even now....all just a thought.;)
Click to expand...

I get where you are coming from @excalibur2 but it's that upfront cost that is the issue.

For you and everyone else I'll give my rationale for a looking at "reasonably" priced TLRs

1. Film photography sits alongside 2 other hobbies/ interests I have (there is also a 3rd peripheral interest). All 3-4 of these interests are funded from my same pot of disposable income. The other 2-3 interests also have their equivalents to "ooh I'd like a reasonably priced TLR".

2. I have a wife, 2 school age children, house and associated mortgage. Rightly the family and home always take precedence over any of my hobbies and interests but I like to find the right balance between the 2.

3. I'm no where near being in poverty but I'm not rich either. I don't and won't buy goods on credit. So to fund one interest I either save up or cut back on one of the others. Let's take an extreme example - say I'd love an immaculate GSW690iii or a Hasselblad 503. I would severely cut back on my other interests and then save up for 2++ years and be grumpy in the meantime so that's not for me.

Now my mum has seen me trying to use and think about fixing my Lubitel (she is an excellent digital photography by the way) and as my 52nd birthday is on the horizon she has offered to contribute towards a decent reasonably priced TLR.

So in summary, that's why I'm after your valuable opinions.

Family calls so I'll continue with responses later!
 
moggi1964 said:
I'm not sure what your budget stretches to but I love my Mamiya C3 and would highly recommend one. Built like a tank so a good one should last.

Ffordes has one without lens for £145. The 80mm lens pops up a lot on the used market for a hundred or so.

I got mine at auction without seeing it in person and it turned out to be in superb condition. I paid about £150 I think with the 80mm lens and the 130mm lens included but I took a gamble of course.
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Ooh now I'm liking the look of a C3. Viewed the Ffordes body and had a look at the lenses. Are the the C3 lenses interchangeable with the c220 and C330 if I went that way as a future upgrade?

I'd wrongly ruled anything Mamiya out as too expensive, Although certainly at the top end of my price range but...

Can you get the C3 serviced to make sure it works smoothly for longer?

All - dinner calls now so I'll post my possible list whilst the kids are watching a film later.
 
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I think there might be a C3 for sale on here actually. I believe the lenses are interchangeable but double check.

I know that Newton & Ellis in Liverpool will service a TLR, I was lucky mine didn't need it but I have used them for many other cameras.

Here's a pic of mine.

Mamiya C3
 
moggi1964 said:
I think there might be a C3 for sale on here actually. I believe the lenses are interchangeable but double check.

I know that Newton & Ellis in Liverpool will service a TLR, I was lucky mine didn't need it but I have used them for many other cameras.

Here's a pic of mine.

Mamiya C3
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Thanks for the pic of yours, it looks lovely! I've re-looked at the ad - I had seen it the before I'd ruled out anything Mamiya TLR before I ruled them out.
 
A bit of background. My first camera in 1982 was a 110, my brother got a disc camera 5 or so years later. Late 80's v early 90's I got a Canon Sure shot and never stopped using them at all and v occasionally played a bit with someone else's 35mm SLR. In 2019 I decided I wanted to get in film photography in more depth.

This is all a long way of saying my knowledge beyond P&S was non existent until 3 years ago and goes to explain why I'm asking so many questions re TLRs.

So through your suggestions my long list of possibles in no particular order is:
1. A Rolleicord something
2. Zeis iKON Ikonoflex
3. A Yashica A, D or 635 without 35mm adapter
4. A Mamiya C something but particularly a C3 (I'm particularly liking these but v top end of my price range)
5. SEM
6. Lipka Rollop

Not totally discounted but doubtful:
- Meopta Flexaret
- A Minolta something
- Voightlander Brilliant

That's still a lot to look at mind!

Is there anybody around on this section who has a Mamiya C something I could look at and try out to see if I like using them? I don't mean loan or take it away with me but perhaps meet up with the owner. I'm East Midlands based but could travel further afield. If so let me know.
 
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