Totally disgusting south London police

So, we now know that the deceased burglar was part of a criminal family, who used to "work" in the North Kent/South London area. He was a lovely chap who specialised in keeping old folks company, whilst carrying out house clearance for them. He will be sorely missed by his friends and relatives, and the family business will no doubt suffer as a result of losing a valued employee.
 
And I apologise for the Daily Wail link, but they are reporting a previous 10 year stretch, conning OAP's out of £500K, criminal family along with uncles etc
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5580925/Pensioner-78-stabbed-burglar-bailed.html

Theres also a unconfirmed report that his accomplice stopped to help the dead man, pulled the screwdriver from him which could have contributed to his death? This could be why the police can't find the screwdriver
 
andy700 said:
So, we now know that the deceased burglar was part of a criminal family, who used to "work" in the North Kent/South London area. He was a lovely chap who specialised in keeping old folks company, whilst carrying out house clearance for them. He will be sorely missed by his friends and relatives, and the family business will no doubt suffer as a result of losing a valued employee.
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Does that mean the police don't have a responsibility to investigate his death? (To preempt the replies of outrage no where have I expressed an option as to the legitimacy or otherwise of the actions of the home owner)
 
boyfalldown said:
Does that mean the police don't have a responsibility to investigate his death? (To preempt the replies of outrage no where have I expressed an option as to the legitimacy or otherwise of the actions of the home owner)
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I should have thought the deceased "occupation" or otherwise would have no bearing on Police actions regarding investigations. However, as I understand it, the CPS only prosecute if they believe a conviction is likely and in the public interest.
 
boyfalldown said:
Does that mean the police don't have a responsibility to investigate his death? (To preempt the replies of outrage no where have I expressed an option as to the legitimacy or otherwise of the actions of the home owner)
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I suppose they could spend five minutes or so of their precious time, but I think there are a lot of people like myself who simply thinks that he made a wrong choice, chose the wrong person to terrorise and rob (because being armed and threatening people is an act of terror), and the tables were turned on him, and it is one less career criminal the country has to worry about.
 
andy700 said:
I suppose they could spend five minutes or so of their precious time, but I think there are a lot of people like myself who simply thinks that he made a wrong choice, chose the wrong person to terrorise and rob (because being armed and threatening people is an act of terror), and the tables were turned on him, and it is one less career criminal the country has to worry about.
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I'd like to see a full and comprehensive investigation into the cause of death, then nobody can claim a whitewash, then the CPS to throw it out as it's in nobody's interest to prosecute and very unlikely to get a conviction, so the court costs etc would be a complete waste of taxpayer's money.
The poor old couple now have to live (or move if they can afford/want to) in a house they possibly no longer feel safe in, possibly worried by the thoughts of retribution from that lovely man's family, what a way to spend your final years.
 
MatBin said:
I should have thought the deceased "occupation" or otherwise would have no bearing on Police actions regarding investigations. However, as I understand it, the CPS only prosecute if they believe a conviction is likely and in the public interest.
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As is done in most countries with jury structured courts systems.

Essentially the prosecutors are dependent on the weight of evidence and apply a risk based process to test the evidence for outcome.

The French use a similar system but also have ‘Investigating Magistrates’ that are used in a variety of situations to review evidence and conduct pre-trial investigations, something which the UK could adopt for difficult cases

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Examining_magistrate
 
andy700 said:
I suppose they could spend five minutes or so of their precious time, but I think there are a lot of people like myself who simply thinks that he made a wrong choice, chose the wrong person to terrorise and rob (because being armed and threatening people is an act of terror), and the tables were turned on him, and it is one less career criminal the country has to worry about.
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No then?
 
I have a theory based on having spent some time with my elderly father in law today.
Osborn-Brooks was so pleased to have someone to talk to that he bored Vincent with his stories, wouldn't let him leave so Vincent took the only way out with a self inflicted injury... :D

Probably the same reason Osborn-Brooks was released from custody quickly...
 
I notice the OP hasn't contributed anything more to this thread. Perhaps a renaming of the thread is in order?
 
Dave1 said:
On the BBC news at 6. There will be no action taken against the householder, according to the Met.



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-43676359
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No surprise there!

As mentioned in an earlier thread and one of mine, the arrest is process based.

The darker side though is we should not be surprised of further action against Mr Osborn Brookes...... by the dead man’s family/friends. The other option is the accomplice coming forward with his version of events......
 
Got a news alert on my phone that there'll be no further action against him.
 
frank said:
Seems today's police would rather you do nothing and just stand back and let them stab you to death. The law is a ass.
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Given that the guy is not going to be charged, do you still think the law is an ass?
 
CBA to read the thread but I’m gonna make some assumptions, jump right in and say:

Wouldn’t it have been better to wait and see what the (sensible) outcome was rather than get on a 10ft horse and decry the whole system without any view of the facts?

Or did I get this all wrong? :D
 
Dave70D said:
IMO I think the police made the right decision.
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It would have come from the Crown Prosecution Service after the Police report detailing their findings.

The original arrest was part of the due process ie Normal Procedure
 
This one does seem to have been handled correctly, but that doesn't always happen.
Some years ago, a couple were arrested by police after the husband, Andrew Ferrie, shot and wounded a burglar in their bedroom, and the couple were held in police custody for 66 hours, which seemed to me to be grossly excessive https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2012/sep/05/couple-shooting-burglary-home-released
And there was another case, can't remember the name, where a householder stabbed a burglar to death in his kitchen. He was released on police bail after a reasonable period of time but it took the CPS about 11 months to confirm that no action would be taken against him.
 
Could the behaviour of the dead mans family not be classed as "likely to cause a breach of the peace"?

.... in which case the Police could stop it. :)
 
Tigger.ufo said:
Could the behaviour of the dead mans family not be classed as "likely to cause a breach of the peace"?

.... in which case the Police could stop it. :)
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Could be difficult.

The ‘family’ are effectively committing a trespass (civil issue) and not damage.

The householder/owner of the fence could get a court order but would need to name individuals in court.

The other side of the matter is those removing the flowers and throwing them on the pavement are ‘littering’ the highway.....

Arrest who exactly?
 
Byker28i said:
Yup, let's hope they have some sort of protection from any other action from family or friends of the dead man.
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The couple are being kept at a 'safe' house after threats from the family. Meanwhile the dead mans relatives leave flowers etc at the site he died, without asking the home owner. They've been taken down twice, but the relatives return
https://www.metro.news/floral-tribu...torn-down-before-they-reappear-again/1011050/

Can they not be charged with littering?

Elvina Lee, who said she was Vincent’s first cousin, called whoever pulled the tributes down ‘scum’ and labelled Mr Osborn-Brooks a ‘murderer’ and a ‘lowlife’.
 
Scum, murderer and lowlife...

But then when we look at the family...
John Vincent charged with Murder - http://www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/9556320.Youth_cleared_of_Star_Lane_motorbike_murder/
And this James, Robert and Amos Vincent jailed after scamming pensioners - http://www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/8...iled-after-preying-on-elderly-victims/?ref=ar
And this Amos Vincent (from the previous link) jailed (again) for car theft and scamming - http://www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/1...y-cray-jailed-for-orpington-car-theft/?ref=ar
Police looking for these guys Two more of the Vincent Clan - http://www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/1...police-want-to-speak-to-these-two-men/?ref=ar

Henry Vincent history . - http://www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/1...-track-down-these-suspected-criminals/?ref=ar
http://www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/1...uspect-henry-vincent-wanted-by-police/?ref=ar


Oh and Amos Vincent jailed again for another scam - http://www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/1...s-after-posing-as-authority-officials/?ref=ar

And finally Henry Vincent snr jailed for conning £72,000 from elderly man in roofing scam - http://www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/9180770.orpington-builder-jailed-for-72k-roof-repair-con/?ref=ar


This simply wasn't a random burglary gone wrong, this was a career criminal, jailed multiple times, from a family who were by all intents and purposes above the law - repeated jail sentences failing to act as the deterrent.
 
Byker28i said:
The couple are being kept at a 'safe' house after threats from the family. Meanwhile the dead mans relatives leave flowers etc at the site he died, without asking the home owner. They've been taken down twice, but the relatives return
https://www.metro.news/floral-tribu...torn-down-before-they-reappear-again/1011050/

Can they not be charged with littering?

Elvina Lee, who said she was Vincent’s first cousin, called whoever pulled the tributes down ‘scum’ and labelled Mr Osborn-Brooks a ‘murderer’ and a ‘lowlife’.
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As mentioned in my post above, the attaching of the flowers is a trespass on private property not littering. When they are pulled down and thrown on the public highway then that is littering.

Put yourself in the place of the fence owner. When the subject moves on and the outraged public have gone, he/she has to live there. Who will protect them? Hence their circumspection.
 
Tigger.ufo said:
Could the behaviour of the dead mans family not be classed as "likely to cause a breach of the peace"?

.... in which case the Police could stop it. :)
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Straightforward in Scotland, and probably the best/simplest way to deal with it. I don't know how English law applies in a case like this, but I think it's different.
 
MartynK said:
Straightforward in Scotland, and probably the best/simplest way to deal with it. I don't know how English law applies in a case like this, but I think it's different.
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Same law applies but in practice , the main issue is the interpretation of behaviour.

The family may be a rag tag band of undesirables but placing flowers at the site of a death happens as a matter of course in the country.

You could find an argument that the main aggression is coming from the onlookers.

The simplest solution is for people not directly involved to stay away and let the matter fade. Will yhey be there 24/7/365 to care for the threatened householder?

That would leave the Police to deal with the treats against the householder to be investigated.
 
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