Trouble with 400mm lens focusing on sea birds

Shirleyr

Shirleyr

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Shirley
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All winter I've been having trouble with my lens in holding the focus on sea birds at sea. I can hear the lens searching for focus but it keeps on loosing the bird and going back to being blurred. I found that I have to focus on a boat and slide the lens across to the bird without letting my finger off the focus button, which it often does. I wondered if anyone has the same problem or could it be that my lens is starting to fail. There is often very poor light with the sea over the few months, here.
 
Hi Shirley

I note that you have Canon....................

Can you please expand on your info by adding:-
AF:-
Single or Continuous?
Also if CAF is that Servo or AI Servo?
Single Focus Point or more than one point?
Is the bird dark coloured on a dark sea i.e. little contrast between the bird and the water?

With a little more detail I/we may be able to throw some light ( ;) ) on the problem(?)

Oh, and how about showing us some pictures to illustrate the circumstances?
 
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Shirleyr said:
All winter I've been having trouble with my lens in holding the focus on sea birds at sea. I can hear the lens searching for focus but it keeps on loosing the bird and going back to being blurred. I found that I have to focus on a boat and slide the lens across to the bird without letting my finger off the focus button, which it often does. I wondered if anyone has the same problem or could it be that my lens is starting to fail. There is often very poor light with the sea over the few months, here.
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What lens, what camera body?
 
Hi Shirley , yes I do know who you are .. I really think that it’s time to move on to a more up to date and manageable system . If your still using that old 7D set up then Yes its time to change ..
as you probably know I suffered major heart failure last year and was forced to downsize and I chose Olympus which has turned out to be a good move . If you want to p.m me your phone number again I’ll go into more detail with you . My own long range set up weighs around 1.4 kg and rarely misses a beat . The choice is yours
 
No change, Canon 7d with 400mm f5.6l. I have other expenses in my life. Af, continuous, A1 Servo, very little difference between bird and sea. Very tired so will sort out photos tomorrow. It has been very windy so the lens is on a monopod and hard to keep the camera and lens steady. The photos are fine in the garden but stand on the cliff path and the trouble starts. The lens has been mending once as the focus went.
 
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Is it something obvious like the body only autofocusing down to f/5.6 and that's the limit of the lens? Even if the body goes to f/8 it's only 1 stop from the limit and on a reasonably challenging target.
 
have you always had problems with this lens?

how far away are the birds?

have you tried the lens on another camera?

does the camera work well with other lenses?
 
The sea birds are a huge distance out at sea, just found a photo of a great northern diver taken back in Dec. Heavy crop but the bird is not sharp. The iso would have been about 800
 

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Shirleyr said:
No change, Canon 7d with 400mm f5.6l. I have other expenses in my life. Af, continuous, A1 Servo, very little difference between bird and sea. Very tired so will sort out photos tomorrow. It has been very windy so the lens is on a monopod and hard to keep the camera and lens steady. The photos are fine in the garden but stand on the cliff path and the trouble starts. The lens has been mending once as the focus went.
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Shirley that Set up was dodgy last time I saw you and that was several years ago .. things have moved on so far in that time to . I do realise that you will have other expenses we all do ..but you asked a question and there is no simple magic potion cure . Part of it could also lie with your computer and software to as that has jumped leaps and bounds over time
 
Shirleyr said:
The sea birds are a huge distance out at sea, just found a photo of a great northern diver taken back in Dec. Heavy crop but the bird is not sharp. The iso would have been about 800
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How big a crop? Do post an uncropped to show the original!

Also, please answer my questions in my initial response? :)
 
Not an easy one to answer but that picture of the bird on the water should be sharp with your camera set up
I don’t have the same lens as you but do have a 7D mk 1and 2
I did find the my 7D mk 1 would struggle with focus on fast moving birds in flight I struggled with it for a while and then upgraded to the 7D mk2 which is excellent
But to be honest your setup should work with that bird on the water though it is a long way off
I would start by taking shots of stationary things in the garden with the camera on a tripod to eliminate equipment problems
 
A huge crop as I am on the cliff path and the diver is far out to sea.
 
hunnymonster said:
Is it something obvious like the body only autofocusing down to f/5.6 and that's the limit of the lens? Even if the body goes to f/8 it's only 1 stop from the limit and on a reasonably challenging target.
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It is a challenging target. It like the lens can't find it. I think that the lens is just not quite good enough for the task. I'm not anywhere near where I can get it checked out but its well looked after and never comes off the camera. Thanks all for the replies.
 
Are you using a single AF point or still having all of them active? If you're using all AF points the camera won't have a clue what you want it to focus on aiming at such a small target.
 
That looks to be such a heavy crop that it's unreasonable to expect it to be any better - especially at ISO800 on an old Canon camera.

One of the things about wildlife photography is that there will always be things too far away, no matter what kit you have, you just need to know the limitations of your kit, accept this and not bother taking the shots.
 
Hi, Just my 10p worth, what have you got the lens minimum focus set to? 3.5 Mtrs or 8.5mtrs, if you set 8.5 meters the lens will struggle on closer subjects and maybe visa versa? Russ.
 
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I have heard of a renowned photographer still using a 7d - can’t remember who now [emoji848] - it may have been Simon King - so although more modern cameras may increase your chances of improved shots, it should be possible to get something.

Are you able to adjust the shutter/focus priority on the 7d? On my 5d4 the second shot in a series of multiple fps is often sharper than the first. The opposite is true for my Olympus.

I had that lens. It has no image stabilisation and I know at higher shutter speeds it shouldn’t make a difference, but I think it did to me. I sold it to get the 100-400mm ii instead. There was a massive improvement .. not just because of the IS.

Another thing you might try, is to use back button focusing where you use your thumb to focus and your finger to operate the shutter.

Your example is a huge crop and the low contrast may also make it tricky.

Edit: having written all that, I’ve just read your post that sounds like it’s hunting for focus... missed that, so, much of above is probably irrelevant- sorry!
 
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I still think you should first go out on a sunny day and take shots of stationary subjects to check your lens is focusing properly
The 7D is a good camera I still use mine as a second body
 
I had the samilar problem with a signa 120-400 it was alway hunting focus at 400mm, at mid range it was fine. I think its the magnification at the 400mm that the focus point keeps moving, if you are on single point, it may not happen on area focus
 
steve_lyt said:
I had the samilar problem with a signa 120-400 it was alway hunting focus at 400mm, at mid range it was fine. I think its the magnification at the 400mm that the focus point keeps moving, if you are on single point, it may not happen on area focus
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I wondered about the single point, I'll try changing that, thanks.
 
Bebop said:
I have heard of a renowned photographer still using a 7d - can’t remember who now [emoji848] - it may have been Simon King - so although more modern cameras may increase your chances of improved shots, it should be possible to get something.

Are you able to adjust the shutter/focus priority on the 7d? On my 5d4 the second shot in a series of multiple fps is often sharper than the first. The opposite is true for my Olympus.

I had that lens. It has no image stabilisation and I know at higher shutter speeds it shouldn’t make a difference, but I think it did to me. I sold it to get the 100-400mm ii instead. There was a massive improvement .. not just because of the IS.

Another thing you might try, is to use back button focusing where you use your thumb to focus and your finger to operate the shutter.

Your example is a huge crop and the low contrast may also make it tricky.

Edit: having written all that, I’ve just read your post that sounds like it’s hunting for focus... missed that, so, much of above is probably irrelevant- sorry!
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Thanks for reply anyway because I am interested in what you wrote, as eventually I will want to buy another lens and so I have written in my diary that the 100-400mm is worth considering. Your right it has no image stabilisation.
 
You do need to be using single point, but to be honest, you will be lucky to hold focus on anything that small at this distance. The bird is way to small to reliably hold the focus point, especially if you're not rock solid yourself. Added to that, the amount of cropping you're doing will reduce the IQ to a massive degree.

unfortunately - and I fully appreciate this is easier said than done - you will have to get a whole lot closer to the subject to get reliable outcomes

Mike
 
pooley said:
You do need to be using single point, but to be honest, you will be lucky to hold focus on anything that small at this distance. The bird is way to small to reliably hold the focus point, especially if you're not rock solid yourself. Added to that, the amount of cropping you're doing will reduce the IQ to a massive degree.

unfortunately - and I fully appreciate this is easier said than done - you will have to get a whole lot closer to the subject to get reliable outcomes

Mike
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We have had here where I live on the Lleyn Peninsula, Gwynedd. Storm after storm. Yesterday here in the village is was silent and still and I thought it was the virus, until someone said its because there is no wind. You have hit the nail full on, I need to be rock solid and get closer and I think I will leave it at that. Thanks all for your comments.
 
For small distant targets like that, I would suggest single central focus point, AI Servo and probably spot metering. I would probably use Tv mode at 1/800s and let ISO take care of itself. That's probably it. Success rate will be pretty low anyway, but useful record shots are likely. Good luck.
 
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