TV Tonight BBC 3 22:30 - Paparazzi: Next Generation

gazedd said:
Dont you work for money also Pete?
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Wow. Didn't expect anyone to be that quick to point out that I earn money. You guys, you're just so on the ball. I'm surprised you didn't point out that I have a camera too and that I use it to take photos.

If you could earn more money taking a few crappier pictures that dont require your time to process them, would you? of course you will
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Of course I will? Funny. I didn't when I had the chance. Huh. How odd. Was I supposed to? Should I have been out photographing celebs at the MTV Awards just to make some quick money? Damn it. I feel like its such a wasted opportunity. Oh wait no its not what I like to do and I'm not going to just for some quick cash. I'm strange like that.
 
I expected a response to those lines, lol

I've seen you stalk your prey, and IMO its the same as the pap's just wihtout the flashing lights or sale of them... :p
 
gazedd said:
I expected a response to those lines, lol
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As I expected your initial reply :p Way to completely miss the point I made :p "Oh but you make money too." Yes, you're point being that people make money? Super. :p

I've seen you stalk your prey, and IMO its the same as the pap's just wihtout the flashing lights or sale of them... :p
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Well of course in YMO its the same. It makes your argument stronger :p Would you call Martin Parr a pap? Henri Cartier-Bresson? Oh its just pointing a camera at someone on a street. Must be papping eh. Honestly, if you think what I do is the same as papping then you're only going to get sarcastic replies.
 
Have any of the "paps" in this thread actually come up with any evidence that they are who they say they are?

Why are they hiding? At least one thread categorically states that they were part of the TV programme, yet they choose to hide on a photography forum:LOL:

:wacky::wave:

Of course, this could just be my doubting nature....
 
Hide on a forum I'll happily tell you who I am but did anyone ask I'm not sure it actually mattered with the points I was making!!! Why would i lie about who I am?

Secondly lots of people seem to have preconceptions of us before they have even spoken to any of us or met us which. Calling us scum is just a cheap insult and not particularly intelligent especially as you are trying to take the higher ground and all you can come up with with your superior intellect is "scum" and that we are not real photographers. Get over yourself just because I choose to be a pap does not mean that I can't take pictures and if you don't like what I do well thats your opinion and i respect you for that but I believe that what I am doing is a job nothing more nothing less i have no problems with my morals or values and I make good money doing what I do so why should I feel guilty for doing it supply and demand thats the simple answer and you know what however much you mate hate me and call me scum this industry will way out survive me, you and probably traditional photography because millions upon millions of people are involved in the celebrity industry and thats the bottom line
 
Supply and demand isn't a valid reason for doing something imho. There used to be a demand for slavery. There's a current demand for child porn, guns, knives, drugs. There's a point at which you think "Nah I could make money from it but I don't believe in it so I won't." Whats wrong with that? Whats wrong with not wanting to make a quick buck because you don't believe in something?
 
Because what I do isn't illegal. I take pictures of people who get paid a fortune I don't harm anyone unlike guns,knives and drugs if u don't like it well you don't like it but alot of people have alot of interest in what we do
 
Hmmm... are paps scum? Well no, not all of them. If you're old enough you might remember Joe's E6 in Wardour Street. I used to work then 20 years ago and we had guys from the press in all hours of the day and night. On quiet nights they'd stop for a coffee and a chat. Prior to that I worked at a lab with a guy who used to partner Jason Fraser back when he was starting out. So I've met a lot of "paps" and heard all sorts of stories. Some were top blokes, Hogan is quite possibly the nicest bloke I've ever met for example but he's not a real pap now is he?

On the other hand I also have a few friends who are either celebs or family of celebs (I'm talking A list here) and so I've also heard their side of things. Last year a story broke that wasn't true, it was a made up kiss and tell for cash by a professional kiss & tell merchant. But the mother of the story's "victim" had 30 press & paps on her doorstep for a couple of days hoping to get a shot. They terrorised the woman, she couldn't leave her house and they would knock on the door all hours of the day and night shouting and swearing abusive comments about her son through the letterbox to try and get a reaction (and therefore a shot). But, hey, that's ok as they were just doing their job, right?
 
Salvery wasn't illegal at one point. McDonalds isn't illegal and its just supplying a demand but its hardly a good meal and does more harm than good.
 
Pete, you take pictures of nobodies in the street, call it street photography.
A pap, will take a picture of someone that magazines and essentially its buyers think is interesting. For example the shot of Kate Hudson, taken in the street. Surely thats street photography. The photographer (if you want to use that label) was driving around and spotted her, moved to a good position and took a nice shot. It's not that much different from you spotting someone in Liverpool and thinking they look interesting for my blog, I'll move into a good position and take a photo of them.

Pap's (to a certain level) are street photographers, just like you. Ok some go to more extremes which makes great viewing on TV, but the for many of the pictures you see published, its just street photography, only the subject happens to be a celebrity.
 
petemc said:
People are that bored with their lives that seeing Kate Hudson walking around is interesting?
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Believe it or not Pete, yes they are. I don't give a monkeys about celeb culture either..but if people want to see it, then people want to see it and someone out there will always be willing to oblige.

It is not for you, or I to convince anyone else it is wrong...other than expressing our own opinions on the matter. If they want to live their lives that way, then so be it. That goes for celebs too...they want fame and media attention, then they get it. Not when they want it, but when their 'customers' want it.

You eat meat I bet, don't you Pete? But could you go an kill and butcher the cow yourself? I'm going to guess not...the point being, is that my grandfather worked his whole life as a slaughterman. Words he said will always echo in my mind...he told me that he didn't like doing it, but someone has to because there is a demand for meat. It was a job (a rather awful job at that!). End of.

Celebs open themselves up to the public for financial gain...they are free game, meat if you will...and the paps are the slaughtermen. Faked blonde, faked tanned Crystal, of Chelmsford is the weekly shopper in Tesco picking up her Value sausages. But I'm sure you figured out that yourself!
 
petemc said:
Everything they do is just for a bit of money. Bit rubbish really.
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I don't see what's wrong with that actually. :shrug: There is a demand, they satisfy it. It's not illegal and just because you don't agree with it doesn't mean it gives you the right to condemn it.

Let's try looking at it another way too. Those of you condemning papparazzi, do you condemn journalism too? What about some of the exposes which have been made by journalists bending the rules a bit? What about Donal McIntyre undercover? It's a similar scenario.
 
What was the story? Personally I have never seen a pap do that and the majority of paps if they did see this happening they would tell the culprit that it was out of order and not to do it again especially as we are sensible over these things if we polite to a celeb or their family we are much more likely to get a pic so why would we do something like that. Also the story is written by the journalist not the pap so if ** friend has a problem with the story sue the offending publication they will write an apology if they have no proof and then there is no story for paps to get pics for end of
 
natjag said:
but the for many of the pictures you see published, its just street photography, only the subject happens to be a celebrity.
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I agree but Pete doesn't have a dozen or more mates with him all jostling for the best shot of a random member of the public does he? That puts a slightly different spin on street photography I think...
 
natjag said:
Pete, you take pictures of nobodies in the street, call it street photography.
A pap, will take a picture of someone that magazines and essentially its buyers think is interesting. For example the shot of Kate Hudson, taken in the street. Surely thats street photography. The photographer (if you want to use that label) was driving around and spotted her, moved to a good position and took a nice shot. It's not that much different from you spotting someone in Liverpool and thinking they look interesting for my blog, I'll move into a good position and take a photo of them.

Pap's (to a certain level) are street photographers, just like you. Ok some go to more extremes which makes great viewing on TV, but the for many of the pictures you see published, its just street photography, only the subject happens to be a celebrity.
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Nope. Not working for me there. I'm sure anyone who knows about street photography would agree with me too. Where's NorthernNikon when you need him :D

dod said:
I don't see what's wrong with that actually. :shrug: There is a demand, they satisfy it. It's not illegal and just because you don't agree with it doesn't mean it gives you the right to condemn it.
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Why not? Freedom of speech. I'm sure I'm allowed to have an opinion on something, a dislike on something and I'm sure I'm allowed to say so. Should I have given constructive criticism instead? :p
 
pxl8 said:
I agree but Pete doesn't have a dozen or more mates with him all jostling for the best shot of a random member of the public does he? That puts a slightly different spin on street photography I think...
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A hugely different one because generally those celeb shots aren't very good. I said it before, put em up here for critique and we'll see just how good they are. Its not street photography. Its snaps of famous people that sell.

kate_hudson_barefoot_malibu_1.jpg_%28JPEG_Image%2C_879%C3%971000_pixels%29_-_Scaled_%2867_%29-20090215-131958.jpg


"Great shot!" :p
 
petemc said:
Why not? Freedom of speech. I'm sure I'm allowed to have an opinion on something, a dislike on something and I'm sure I'm allowed to say so. Should I have given constructive criticism instead? :p
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Freedom of speech is fine. You're trying to push your beliefs and values on others again. That for me goes beyond free speech and just becomes a boring imposition.
 
pxl8 said:
I agree but Pete doesn't have a dozen or more mates with him all jostling for the best shot of a random member of the public does he? That puts a slightly different spin on street photography I think...
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You are correct pete doesn't have to compete with other photographers, nor did the guy taking the shot of Kate Hudson.

Where you see all the paps in a scrum trying to get a shot, it is usually a published event (from a media dairy) that the celeb has been invited to attend (quite often be paid) to help publicise a product or venue. Quite often these should be red carpet events, unfortunately some aren't organized that well and a scrum becomes the only way to get the shot as the organisers don't make sufficient area or press pen.
 
Papsabout said:
What was the story? Personally I have never seen a pap do that and the majority of paps if they did see this happening they would tell the culprit that it was out of order and not to do it again especially as we are sensible over these things if we polite to a celeb or their family we are much more likely to get a pic so why would we do something like that. Also the story is written by the journalist not the pap so if ** friend has a problem with the story sue the offending publication they will write an apology if they have no proof and then there is no story for paps to get pics for end of
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I'm not getting at any one story in particular. What I'm getting at is you guys are being slated for using underhand tactics, harassment etc. I'm saying you're not the only ones and why should you be singled out?
 
dod said:
Freedom of speech is fine. You're trying to push your beliefs and values on others again. That for me goes beyond free speech and just becomes a boring imposition.
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I'm not. I'm trying justify my believes and I'm trying to defend why what I do is different. Apparently me shooting a gig with famous people is papping :/ Apparently me doing street photography is also papping :/ Don't confuse passion with imposition.
 
Papsabout said:
What was the story?
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Sorry, I'm can't say who but it was front page for a few days in November.

But perhaps now you understand why words like scum to get used. The woman in question happens to have a famous son, she's not famous and doesn't cash in on her son's fortune, she's just a sweet person who was put through the ringer but a bunch of muppets "doing their job".

Yes you can claim the TV show was edited to put a particular spin on things but equally I suspect that those involved only showed the parts of their business they wanted the cameras to see, not all of it. So in a sense the programme showed the worst of their best which might or might not be a balanced view.
 
I haven't ever been driven to write on these forums before. However having watched the car crash tv show and read the replies on this I feel hell why not!
Paps is a dirty word, i should know i have been involved in this field of work for many years and have shot and broken many famous news exclusives on celebrities.
I would like to clear a few points and give an honest answer to some people on here who are getting very excited.
First off there is a great difference between News Paper Paps and the street paps you see on said TV show.
As i write this a huge mass of News paper paps - they call themselves photojournalists!!!!! are sitting on the door and i mean feet up against it, of a well known premiership footballer as his girlfriend has left him. This i do not agree with, they will camp there until they get a picture, paid by the newspapers on a day shift. The Street Pap will go elsewhere and not get involved knowing that as freelancers there is no point financially and also that isn't the way they work. True paps if door stepping, will wait for the subject to leave follow undetected and then shoot the subject. When the circus of newspaper paps arrive they leave rubbish, coffee cups etc everywhere. They usually come with journalists who question neighbours and knock on doors etc. This is not what true paparazzi work is, a good pap is never seen by the subject or even the general public. Like the guy Craig on the TV film they work alone.

As for the discussion, if taking pictures of celebrities at work/rest is wrong....the showbiz business creates thousands of jobs, fashion, film, Tv, CELEB mags etc....the human race for over a hundred and fifty years has wanted to see the life of the rich and famous. We are all jealous, intrigued, starstruck and riddled with selfdoubt over who we are and who we want to be.

This is the nature of the world we live in and as we enter the 21st Century the race for celebrity status is growing faster and faster and we paps are just enjoying the ride.

cheers

A Pap Scum
 
Pap Scum (how uncomfortable is that), you make a good point about the difference between staff and freelance - but the public perception is that they are one and the same. You might see a difference but that doesn't mean anyone else will.

So what's your take on Craig shooting Jude Law watching his son playing football? Celebs have a job, part of that is being photographed but Craig said they couldn't turn it on and off? Why not? Aren't they entitled to some time off too?
 
I watched the program and got the feeling that the bloke who hired his mate was acting up for the camera himself, his own chance of celebrity if you like...he drove like a tit and tried to play bigman reprimanding his buddy and then to top it all off he did the dirty on another pap by obscuring his view of a celeb, it was almost like he was trying to impress whilst acting like the sweeny..he was basicly showing how not to behave on national television and if I had to base my opinion on this program then yes I would say they appear to be scum...no morals and no brains.
 
Paps are scum said:
True paps if door stepping, will wait for the subject to leave follow undetected and then shoot the subject.

A Pap Scum
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Paparazzi should not be seen, but surely that is only some of them who choose to do their job this way. There are many different types of photographer, and so I suppose, different types of paparazzi.

The chap taking a picture of Kate Hudson chose to do it that way, the others got involved with the scrum, going shoulder to shoulder, and car to car.

Is any 'celeb' fair game whilst going about there business?

I can see that if taking pictures like in the Kate Hudson example, then that could be seen similar to street photography, though the pictures are taken for different reasons, and 'maybe' with different expectations of final result. Once more than one photographer starts to take a pic of the same street subject, it becomes something different.

Was it OK to stalk Jude Law whilst playing with his kids? Nobody has said whether they think it is OK or not? :shrug:

No doubt there is a huge market for pictures of 'celebs', which many thousands of people around the World making living out of. It is not something I'm interested in, but then I'm in a minority. I question the way some of them may get their pictures.
 
I've only just watched the program on iplayer and found it very interesting.

I'd like to know the point in the program though, was it meant as a journalistic portayal of the pap industry or a sensational film to pose the many questions that have come up in this thread? From reading a few of the posts by the real paps, it doesn't really reflect the true nature of the industry which is a great shame as, I'm sure many on here would find a true account to be very enlightening and rewarding.

It would also be good to get the perspective of a celebrity on here, maybe Adam Woodyatt, a very competent photographer himself, or someone with an interest in photography.

My own opinion is that scruples and morals are great from a personal point of view but they carry very little weight in many cut-throat industries of late where money and profits are concerned. It's all about delivering the goods. I work in a safety orientated industry but it's amazing how short cuts are made for the sake of profit.
 
"Paps are scum" please choose a more appropriate username, which we will change for you.
Just reply to this thread with your choice.
 
Ok have to be quick as have a tip on Amy winehouse arriving at a london airport.
First off.....Jude Law...this is a man with little true acting skills who has shagged most of his leading ladies, incl Sadie Frost couple of kids, Sienna Miller - don't get me started on her, and then ****** his nanny while he was with Sienna. He gets paid in excess of 5million a movie, lives in celebrity alley and takes his kids for walks in the most internationally famous celebrity park in Primrose Hill. Why does he not want be photographed and then choose a location full of paps to parade in.....

Paps never set out to shoot kids...FACT. Some celebs use their kids as props to increase their celebrity status, Liz Hurley for example....put her poor boy in a bikini for her website fashion range. Posh and Becks drags them around in matching clothes and makes sure they are photographed. The Osbournes the best examples, put them on international TV, to make them celebrities, and after Rehab they are.... Finally the Queen of Pap, Katie Price AKA Jordan, who has made a fortune out of her TV shows which include the daily lives of her children.

I have evidence that 50% of all Pap shots you see in magazines and papers is a "set up" where the celeb has booked, tipped off the pap to that location or has even travelled with them overseas. Usually the celeb takes 50% of the sale the photographer the rest. You would be shocked if you knew the famous shots that have been set ups. It happens all the time....so please think a little more when you say that paps are scum hunting down women and children, innocent millionaire celebrities who choose the life they lead and hunger for the spot light.

Why is it that certain celebs don't get photographed? Answer because they don't sell...

To sell you must be seen to do these

Drugs
Sex - cheating, kinky etc
Weight issues
Pregnant
ILL
Fashion clothes horse
New Film/Music/ TV
Change of look

Some celebs will make one mistake in their lives and be front page news - Gordon Ramsey, John Leslie, we all can screw up....it is the top 10 celebs that in the papers and mags everyday and everyweek you have to question.....Kate Moss, Kerry Katona, Amy Winehouse, Jordan, Victoria Beckham....you can't tell me that their lives naturally have all the things i list above happening every week and every day!

Open your eyes this isn't about photography and Paps at the end of the day it is about the mass manipulation of the worlds public to buy this media.

The Paps are just a small part of a wheel that runs the commercial media world. What of the TV shows, adverts, films. We live in a free society and if someone is a disney film icon who my kids adore and i find out they are a drug addict, it is my right to know that. Words like Russel Brand and Jonathan Ross? Gary Glitter...do we just want to let these people get on with it and not record what they are up to.

Words like Big Brother, Xfactor, I am a celebrity, Paris Hiltons BF, Strictly ICE dance off.....Pathetic wannabes and fading stars fighting to get back into the top 10 celebs and get Work and cash......it is a game...played out by all...including you.

This will be my final word.

Thank you for reading

A Pap Scum

ps.....that was a joke about Amy Winehouse....
 
I think its all too easy to blame supply and demand, to blame the worlds media being manipulated and that if it wasn't for this and that people wouldn't buy into a celeb culture. But if you're there shouting at someone to look at your camera with it going off at 11fps and the flash firing at someone so much making them think they're in WW2 then its on you. You made the choice to be there. (Not at anyone in the thread)
 
To take this arguement away for what has been repeated over the previous few pages,

My next question is for the PAP Photographers on here,

Are there any Celebs that are not allowed to be photographed for medical reasons? E.G Epilepsy (Spelling)?
 
gazedd said:
To take this arguement away for what has been repeated over the previous few pages,

My next question is for the PAP Photographers on here,

Are there any Celebs that are not allowed to be photographed for medical reasons? E.G Epilepsy (Spelling)?
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to answer in the same manner as a similar question was answered in the documentary

yes,long pause for thought then unless the paycheque was so large that i want the money more than anything and the harm it may do to others :thumbsdown:

the one thing i do agree/disagree with is i think there is a skill of sorts in what they do in obtaining a picture in [self made] difficult circumstances with my injuries i could not [even if i wanted] do it.
 
ditchdigger said:
to answer in the same manner as a similar question was answered in the documentary

yes,long pause for thought then unless the paycheque was so large that i want the money more than anything and the harm it may do to others :thumbsdown:

the one thing i do agree/disagree with is i think there is a skill of sorts in what they do in obtaining a picture in [self made] difficult circumstances with my injuries i could not [even if i wanted] do it.
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I do remember that part of the program, But surely there would be posed shots for *that* person.
Are there any names that pop into anyones heads?
 
ditchdigger said:
to answer in the same manner as a similar question was answered in the documentary

yes,long pause for thought then unless the paycheque was so large that i want the money more than anything and the harm it may do to others :thumbsdown:

the one thing i do agree/disagree with is i think there is a skill of sorts in what they do in obtaining a picture in [self made] difficult circumstances with my injuries i could not [even if i wanted] do it.
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Bit unfair that you are quoting just one of the paps though, him also being the one who didn't seem too bothered about breaking their own code so I wouldn't count him as typical.
 
petemc said:
Are you mad? MTV Awards, Coleen and other celebs. I know a guy up here who does it and Liverpool was featured in a previous series of this show. I wouldn't do it though.
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mad? possibly, but it would be fun, and its something different, might go to the posh side of liverpools clubs some time to catch a footballer :D :LOL:
 
I meant that you must be mad not to know of the celebs in Liverpool with the recent things that happened. Thats why I listed them. Goto Newz bar and hang out there every night.
 
Ok folk just finished watching this, Mad eh.

Anyway does anybody know what lens the guy was using to shot Goldie Hawn he was using the Nikon camera?
 
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