Two Blue Buckets

Fraser I really find it sad that you (and certain others hereabouts) can't credit PF with any ability. I would assume and hope that after a long career he's immune to a lack of appreciation such as yours. That's all.

I looked for an icon of someone tearing their hair out, but I couldn't see one.
 
No it doesn't. That just makes it a "technically adept" photograph.

Hi Brian - sorry I have to disagree; a good photograph has to have both elements not just be 'art'. there is 'no point' in the photograph if it hasn't got a degree of technical ability; otherwise it is just an 'image' not a good photograph.
 
it is just an 'image' not a good photograph.
Semantics! A photograph IS an image (synonymous words in functional terms). What makes a good photograph? What does 'good' mean in that context? Show us some photos that are good and tell us why. How much other work have you seen by PF?
 
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Dear old Tom - well, not that old. I don't know what happened to his Landscapes book at Steidl. Been on hold for it seems like years.
I've given up on the book. :( And it is years. A pity because I really enjoyed his landscape exhibition in Llandudno.
 
Your painting might be worse than your photography?


.................but you are trying to say that it doesn't have to be a technically correct photograph to be good so why does it matter if their drawing or painting is crap as well? - It doesn't have to be 'technically correct?' - see my logic? A good photograph has to be technically correct as well as possessing other qualities in the image as does a good painting/drawing. Not sure which thread you were explaining watercolour is difficult - why should it be difficult if the 'technicalities' don't matter?

Oh yes I can!

In fairness Rog, that really isn't a sensible reply as it would mean you posses the ability to read the minds of others; this is maybe what turns the general public 'off art'? stating you read an image as..........................is fine and is the impression the image has left on you which I am comfortable with but to say you know exactly what someone is trying to express when taking/drawing an image is..................?
 
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Snip:

Well, they might well have done, as one of the first two or three presses of the shutter button when winding on a newly loaded film. Discuss.

;)

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A lost ball, found, Mr Sutton. (y) Probably by the edge of an occasionally mown boundary close to an area of public open space or a recreation facility?
 
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I know and think it is brilliant TBH...............don't want to spoil for others though!
 
droj, I am not going to quote all your replies, but to me you seem to be very much up your own ar$e. Which seems to me to be a trait of many art critics. As in "If you can't see how good this piece of work is then you are clearly not worth bothering with" To me this picture strikes me as a bit like the "emperors new clothes" (With those that think it is something worth while the emperors.)

Not meant to be offensive but I clearly don't have the intellect to use less offensive language. But then again it is pub speak (sorry for bringing into a photography forum)
 
None that anyone couldn't make about the wooden carvings, which seem to be by different hands. :(
Do you not see the joke in there? A bit like Cuneo's mouse, tucked away in plain sight, if you look for it.
 
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.................but you are trying to say that it doesn't have to be a technically correct photograph to be good so why does it matter if their drawing or painting is crap as well? - It doesn't have to be 'technically correct?' - see my logic? A good photograph has to be technically correct as well as possessing other qualities in the image as does a good painting/drawing. Not sure which thread you were explaining watercolour is difficult - why should it be difficult if the 'technicalities' don't matter?
So what do you think of the technical ability used in a Mark Rothko painting? Or a Jackson Pollock?
 
I've given up on the book. :( And it is years. A pity because I really enjoyed his landscape exhibition in Llandudno.
I still live in hope about the book. I saw the show in Llandudno AND in Aberystwyth and met him briefly. Original landscapes notable for their quiet insight - a rare thing.
 
Anyone else want a go before I put Ed out of his misery?

OK, time's up. Look at the pigs in the bottom left-hand corner. And that photo was taken and framed that way on purpose, and now you probably can't un-see that each time you look at the photo. So there's the humour, hidden away in full view within the photograph.

Childish? Puerile? Well, it would have been if I'd put those pigs in the centre of the frame and made them obvious. Heeeeh heeee…. look what those pigs are doing! Mhhhuuuuhhhaaaa, etc. But I didn't, it was kept as a subtle joke hidden within the overall artistic composition of the photograph.

Don't worry if you didn't see it, some of the animals in the photo didn't see it either! Now look again and perhaps see the expression on the faces of some of the animals that you now believe might have seen what was going on in their midst. My own favourite is the expression on the face of that rabbit... "Ewwwwffff!" That little penguin seems to be having a good look though.

So there you go. Is it art? Well, it's not going to change the world, any more than that pocket cartoon in the daily paper that made you chuckle slightly; but if we can't have a bit of a laugh at our own preconceptions and pretentions then I think it's time we gave up and called bullsh!t on the whole damned thing. (y)
 
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OK, time's up. Look at the pigs in the bottom left-hand corner. And that photo was taken and framed that way on purpose, and now you probably can't un-see that each time you look at the photo. So there's the humour, hidden away in full view within the photograph.

Childish? Puerile? Well, it would have been if I'd put those pigs in the centre of the frame and made them obvious. Heeeeh heeee…. look what those pigs are doing! Mhhhuuuuhhhaaaa, etc. But I didn't, it was kept as a subtle joke hidden within the overall artistic composition of the photograph.

Don't worry if you didn't see it, some of the animals in the photo didn't see it either! Now look again and perhaps see the expression on the faces of some of the animals that you now believe might have seen what was going on in their midst. My own favourite is the expression on the face of that rabbit... "Ewwwwffff!" That little penguin seems to be having a good look though.

So there you go. Is it art? Well, it's not going to change the world, any more than that pocket cartoon in the daily paper that made you chuckle slightly; but if we can't have a bit of a laugh at our own preconceptions and pretentions then I think it's time we gave up and called bullsh!t on the whole damned thing. (y)

It was the first thing I noticed, because I have a dirty mind. But the explanation for this being a great photo is nonsense, the set up is the humour, taking a snap shot of it is hardly amazing.

Blue buckets ... me hole.


droj, I am not going to quote all your replies, but to me you seem to be very much up your own ar$e. Which seems to me to be a trait of many art critics. As in "If you can't see how good this piece of work is then you are clearly not worth bothering with" To me this picture strikes me as a bit like the "emperors new clothes" (With those that think it is something worth while the emperors.)

Not meant to be offensive but I clearly don't have the intellect to use less offensive language. But then again it is pub speak (sorry for bringing into a photography forum)


I was holding back, thank you for saying precisely what I thought.
 
It was the first thing I noticed, because I have a dirty mind. But the explanation for this being a great photo is nonsense, the set up is the humour, taking a snap shot of it is hardly amazing.

Whoah! Nowhere did I claim this was a great photo! Do you think I'd waste my time posting a great photo on here? I'd be marketing it and selling it, not wasting my time with bothering about what you thought about it!

Secondly; "the set up is the humour, taking a snap shot of it is hardly amazing". Really? Well, that thinking probably torpedoes some of the most striking street photographs in history then! Damn, I've spotted a humorous or ironic scene in a sea of conformational mundanity... I'd better not take a photo of that then, as people will think it's a snap shot and how un-amazing will that be?! :rolleyes:
 
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Whoah! Nowhere did I claim this was a great photo! Do you think I'd waste my time posting a great photo on here? I'd be marketing it and selling it, not wasting my time with bothering about what you thought about it!

Secondly; "the set up is the humour, taking a snap shot of it is hardly amazing". Really? Well, that thinking probably torpedoes some of the most striking street photographs in history then! Damn, I've spotted a humorous or ironic scene in a sea of conformational mundanity... I'd better not take a photo of that then, as people will think it's a snap shot and how un-amazing will that be?! :rolleyes:

I wasn't looking for your approval of my comment, just firing an opinion out, don't like it, tough

There's an awful load of s***e being talked in here tbh, big words, big ideals, big egos, all a load of pants. Like the blue bucket image that has you all so wound up.

Also you missed the dark artsy humour in my post.
 
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I wasn't looking for your approval of my comment, just firing an opinion out, don't like it, tough

There's an awful load of s***e being talked in here tbh, big words, big ideals, big egos, all a load of pants. Like the blue bucket image that has you all so wound up.

Hang on, at least some of us on here don't have egos that big that it stops us putting our photos up to illustrate our point of view, at the risk of them being derided and criticised. I've shared some of my stuff, like it or not, how about sharing some of yours to illustrate your point of view? As the saying goes, one show is worth a 1000 tells.

I'm not calling you out here, I'd just be interested to see the sort of shots you take; after all, you just might be a genius; and to be honest, I really hope you are.
 
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Hang on, at least some of us on here don't have egos that big that it stops us putting our photos up to illustrate our point of view, at the risk of them being derided and criticised. I've shared some of my stuff, like it or not, how about sharing some of yours to illustrate your point of view? As the saying goes, one show is worth a 1000 tells.

I'm not calling you out here, I'd just be interested to see the sort of shots you take; after all, you just might be a genius; and to be honest, I really hope you are.


You're using some side account? Here, my one and only Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/cagey75/

Of course I only stick a small fraction of my pics on there, but do feel free to go right through my history, some gems in there, should be hung - them, not me! Genius ... not a chance, doesn't mean I can't be a critic though, I can't act neither ... films are rubbish! Boooo

I will man up though, I didn't know that was one of your own images - I thought you were showing some artsy example - so I'll apologize like a bitch on that one, there's a first! Teach me to read the previous page
 
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I'm not calling you out here, I'd just be interested to see the sort of shots you take; after all, you just might be a genius; and to be honest, I really hope you are.

Ding:

Ding by K G, on Flickr


Can I get an award now?


Or maybe if I just called this one 'Cat'?
Catellite by K G, on Flickr


or actually root out ones I like and pretend it's a series


Morning cycle by K G, on Flickr

Street walker by K G, on Flickr

Misty Hill by K G, on Flickr

Into the fog by K G, on Flickr


No, I do not think I'm a "genius" - at the same time I don't think I have a bad eye, I like what I do for me, I don't hang my stuff in galleries, I don't ask anyone to pay to view, I don't care if nobody likes them. If I was poncey about my photography I wouldn't mix it so much, I'd 'theme' it all, stick to my artsiest ones only to upload and have some spiel behind each one [there is such thing, but I keep it to meself ;) ]
 
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OK, time's up. Look at the pigs in the bottom left-hand corner. And that photo was taken and framed that way on purpose, and now you probably can't un-see that each time you look at the photo. So there's the humour, hidden away in full view within the photograph.

I saw the copulating pigs. But I still don't see the joke.
 
Oh, groan, this is so tedious, Jerry. It's a self-explanatory picture (but see below)!

Ok. The scene he was faced with is larger than what's in the frame. So he's selected where the frame is and what's in it. He's paid attention to the light (and might've modified it but we don't know that). It's title by the way is Cheddar No5, from the series Everyday Icons, 1985 or 6, on film, dammit, but let's concentrate. The background is dark and extends as said beyond the frame - doesn't that make you curious? It is enigmatic! We are suspended, our knowledge is incomplete. So there's a quiet but creative tension. It's all very visual. And the buckets are lit so softly that the plastic almost looks creamy. They are the central counterpoint, not necessarily more important than the background, but probably what most people pick out first. So there's visual dialogue betwen buckets and background. Why are they placed just as they are? Another unknown for the viewer, another part of the quiet enigma. What's the nature of the space, who put the buckets where they are?

Blimey, mate! It's all there in front of you! It's a very unassuming picture, but has integrity, and it's distilled - there's nothing unessential there! What do you want, fireworks?


You have described the process that most people go through to take a photograph of anything - framing, composition, exposure, visual dialogue (in some cases). That describes it, and we can all see that. But where is the meaning?

I can accept that it might create an interesting counterpoint to other pictures in a series. But as a one-off, it just doesn't say anything to me.

As for Tom Wood's landscape photography, I too saw the exhibition and found it rather poor. I accept that he was an excellent documentary/street photographer but that doesn't mean he is/was a good landscape photographer.

I note from the documentary that he earned a crust as a lecturer. I suspect this would help to explain why and how he has retained his reputation as a photographer, and why his landscapes receive acclaim when, quite frankly, they don't deserve it. It's not what you know......etc, etc......
 
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It was the first thing I noticed, because I have a dirty mind. But the explanation for this being a great photo is nonsense, the set up is the humour, taking a snap shot of it is hardly amazing.

Blue buckets ... me hole.





I was holding back, thank you for saying precisely what I thought.

@Mr Badger never claimed it was a 'great photo' - he used the example to state it appealed to his sense of humour and it was expressing a 'childish' sense of humour - almost like a group of adolescence children having their first sex education lesson - I like it and think it works because it makes me smile.

I wasn't looking for your approval of my comment, just firing an opinion out, don't like it, tough

There's an awful load of s***e being talked in here tbh, big words, big ideals, big egos, all a load of pants. Like the blue bucket image that has you all so wound up.

Also you missed the dark artsy humour in my post.

This thread, along with several others that are running 'in parallel' with it has some contributions from members who are discussing the 'art' in photography. The study of art is every bit as important as anything else in human culture and, to me their opinions and thought processes are very interesting. I am here to try and learn and really don't appreciate the 'gate crashers' who just hurl abuse at other contributors; there is a big difference between a discussion/debate and an abusive argument! (Plenty of places for those in other threads!)

At this stage I don't agree with some of their points - that's life but I would like to hear their opinions as I may well understand something that I currently don't appreciate - comments like yours just drag a discussion into the gutter IMO.

If you don't like the discussion and think it is full of egocentric people then just don't contribute; some of us want to learn/understand what people educated in a subject 'see' in an image to better what we do.
 
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As for Tom Wood's landscape photography, I too saw the exhibition and found it rather poor.
That's an astounding remark. I wish you'd elaborate. It could be that you just can't 'see' what he does. Because he seems to have an Irish feyness of vision that hints at the world behind the surface of things. I may note in this context that your own work that I've seen in no way does this - you are a solidly-based craftsman (not an artist) who documents the world as it prosaically appears. Other people with some application could take the same pictures as you do, whereas they'd be unlikely to come up with a Tom Wood. Apart from the 'hidden' dimension referred to above in Tom's landscapes, for me they often occasion a smile of recognition - they are unexpected, they catch something, they wake you. In this expression they are very human too (not surprising when you remember his people pictures) - and it is all this that makes them 'art'.
 
You're using some side account? Here, my one and only Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/cagey75/

Of course I only stick a small fraction of my pics on there, but do feel free to go right through my history, some gems in there, should be hung - them, not me! Genius ... not a chance, doesn't mean I can't be a critic though, I can't act neither ... films are rubbish! Boooo

I will man up though, I didn't know that was one of your own images - I thought you were showing some artsy example - so I'll apologize like a bitch on that one, there's a first! Teach me to read the previous page

Thanks for posting some of your photos, the cat in the headlights and the behatted pensioner in the fog both work for me, with the latter giving me a melancholy feeling. Without getting 'poncey' about it, it makes me think... is it a metaphor for us getting older, slowly plodding on until we gradually fade away and disappear? Does it represent loneliness? Is that place a cemetery or a garden of remembrance where the person has been visiting a dearly departed relative or friend? And I think that's what art should do, as well as entertaining us or amusing us, etc.. But that's just my take on it.

The cat in the headlights also makes me think a bit, is the cat just crossing the road, is it sniffing some roadkill or a discarded take-away, or has it been using a chainsaw (my 'humorous' side speaking up in my head again there!). So what do you see in them, Keith, and which one is your favourite and why?

I've not looked through your Flickr account yet as I haven't had time, but I'll enjoy a look when I do. As for mine, it's not a side account, it's the only one I have; I just use Flickr as a hosting site so I can post photos on here. Most of it is photos taken on film (as with the 'animals' shot) as I generally hang out in the Film & Conventional section of the forum... one of those people who likes to use vintage and classic cameras and go back to my roots to take photos 'the hard way'. :rolleyes: So I don't usually upload my digital 'stuff'. I suspect it would be just as eclectic as you say yours is if I did.

So come on, who's next to show us some of the photos they took that they consider is/are art? I'd love to see some more; and it would be good to know what others have 'seen' in those photos too. :)
 
I saw the copulating pigs. But I still don't see the joke.
The 'joke' (if it can be called that) is that people seem to see the photo and not notice the pigs, but when that is noticed I think the looks on the faces of some of the animals tend to take on a new meaning? It's more quirky than jokey really, but I think it might show how people's interpretation of a shot can change, with us making up our own 'story' based on what we see. In reality they're just lumps of wood, but we first see them as little animals, and then perhaps read something into the expressions they seem to have?

I must say, I do like those project photos you've taken, Ed; some interesting takes on the lives we lead there, so keep on doing it. (y)
 
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I think it might show how people's interpretation of a shot can change

Bizarre. I just looked at this and thought it was about the birds all being in colour with all the other animals unpainted. Spent ages looking to see if there were any birds I'd missed. So for me - it engaged me for more than a 2 second "nice shot" and got me thinking. To me - that's what photography is about.

Did not see the pigs until I saw the comment. :)
 
@Mr Badger never claimed it was a 'great photo' - he used the example to state it appealed to his sense of humour and it was expressing a 'childish' sense of humour - almost like a group of adolescence children having their first sex education lesson - I like it and think it works because it makes me smile.



This thread, along with several others that are running 'in parallel' with it has some contributions from members who are discussing the 'art' in photography. The study of art is every bit as important as anything else in human culture and, to me their opinions and thought processes are very interesting. I am here to try and learn and really don't appreciate the 'gate crashers' who just hurl abuse at other contributors; there is a big difference between a discussion/debate and an abusive argument! (Plenty of places for those in other threads!)

At this stage I don't agree with some of their points - that's life but I would like to hear their opinions as I may well understand something that I currently don't appreciate - comments like yours just drag a discussion into the gutter IMO.

If you don't like the discussion and think it is full of egocentric people then just don't contribute; some of us want to learn/understand what people educated in a subject 'see' in an image to better what we do.


You weren't invited to talk on someone else's behalf. All you do on here is moan like a demented little child. The adults sort it between themselves, they certainly don't need a know nothing like you backing them up.

I gave my opinion on this twice already, I'm not jumping on anyone's opinion until they question mine. The discussion is still going, do you see me interfering?

[edited so's not to ruin the thread stooping to the usual arguers level]
 
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That's an astounding remark.

It's my opinion. We're talking opinions here. To be honest I found it so unmemorable that I can't really comment any further, other than to say that in general the exhibtion felt more personal than most landscape photography does.

This morning I went to see an exhibition of Kyffin Williams paintings. For those that don't know he is a very well-known and highly regarded Welsh landscape and portrait painter who died a few years ago. In the exhibition he was quoted very prominently as saying the following -

It is ironic that I am the most loved and most honoured Welsh artist of all time and yet I am hated by the art world. I fear that they hate any artist who is liked by the public because the world of art despises the public.

An interesting comment and quite relevant to this discussion and other similar ones.
 
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