Unions agree deal on Pensions

[johnnypanic]

Funny how all those in the public sector are bleating about having to work longer and get less, kept their mouths shut when Labour increased the state pension age for everyone else, and never said a damn word when Gordon Brown reduced private pension tax relief, taking what is now estamated to be £200BN out of private pension funds to he could spend it on lavash public sector wage rises and pensions.

Oh, we're suppose to champion the cause of every sector including ours

If you're in the private sector and not happy with your lot, do what we're doing and take some action.

As my signature states - The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person doing it.

 

[nilagin]

Some interesting developments, showing media spin is in full effect. Several unions sent out emails to members saying that they are not accepting the offer being put and that advising to prepare for more industrial action. Funny how the media is reporting it as everyone accepting it.

Not true, when this was announced, I read that, at least two unions were not in favour.

 

[Dale_tem]

If you're in the private sector and not happy with your lot, do what we're doing and take some action.

Yeah demand higher wages, better pension etc. Then wonder why the company goes bust.

 

[nilagin]

Oh, we're suppose to champion the cause of every sector including ours

If you're in the private sector and not happy with your lot, do what we're doing and take some action.

As my signature states - The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person doing it.

Not everyone in the private sector is in a position to take action because they want to protect their jobs. If my employer wanted to say my pay would be frozen or cut, I wouldn't like it but in the current economic climate and with my employers ability to pick up sticks and move the work to another country, I'd gladly take what I can get, the redundancy money won't last long and there are limited if any jobs on the market for me especially at my age.

 

[onona]

Unlike the private sector you DO NOT pay for ALL your pension, you pay for part of your public sector pension the rest of the glit edged, gold plated pension is topped up from general taxation that we all pay into.

Funny how all those in the public sector are bleating about having to work longer and get less, kept their mouths shut when Labour increased the state pension age for everyone else, and never said a damn word when Gordon Brown reduced private pension tax relief, taking what is now estamated to be £200BN out of private pension funds to he could spend it on lavash public sector wage rises and pensions.

If you don't like the terms of your public sector pension then leave the scheme and join a private one like the rest of us.

I totally agree. I'm tired of unions using us, the public, as bargaining chips to get their own way. Unions are bullies, in my view. I have to pay for every cent of my own pension, and also have to stash away as much money as I can each month, because unlike the public sector where you can be crap at your job but can't be gotten rid of because of all the red tape, I can lose my job at any time, and without some sweet redundancy deal either, so I have to have my own backup funds. But you know what? I still manage to survive, and so do the rest of us in the private sector. It's time for these unions to stop acting like the people they represent are helpless victims who are being exploited and that the world owes them a favour - the rest of us manage just fine, and so can they.

 

[whiteflyer]

Oh, we're suppose to champion the cause of every sector including ours

.

No but it's your union leaders who told Brown he should have taken MORE off private pensions then he could have given you more money. (According to Andrew Neil on the Daily Politics Show)

I'm sick of the public sector unions talking about hard working teachers and hard working nurses, well I work ****ing hard too. Your not a special case and your no more important than anyone else in society, and it's about time your got treated like the rest of us.

The public sector pension scheme should be changed to a money purchase scheme were you get out what you put in plus what ever the average private company puts in (I guess about 3% or 4% of salary), and if investments go down then you'll get less, just like we in the private sector do.


I like acetone invite you to visit my place of work to listen to our thoughts of the public sector and it's unions for this strike, now if I was you I would make sure you come on a day the NHS is not on strike because you would need their service about 30 second after you walk in the door and told people your a public sector striker.

 

[ding76uk]

If it is that good in the public sector, why not get a job in it? So easy, never get fired, gold plated pensions! Come on in, the waters lovely.

 

[whiteflyer]

If it is that good in the public sector, why not get a job in it? So easy, never get fired, gold plated pensions! Come on in, the waters lovely.

Well the problem is that I don't have my head up my arse believing that I'm better than everyone else and I'm the only person than does any work.

I just would not pass the interview and certainly would not fit in with everyone else there

As the saying goes, if you can't do, it then teach it, the problem is I can do my job :razz:

 

[Dale_tem]

If it is that good in the public sector, why not get a job in it? So easy, never get fired, gold plated pensions! Come on in, the waters lovely.

All the public sector workers seem to repeat is 'if it is so easy, you do it' or 'I want my pension and nothing else maters' no matter what argument is put to them.

The government need to save money, the public sector needs cuts, just like the private sector has had.

We are all in this together (apart from the poor public workers who believe they should be untouched in this global recession) and we all need to tighten our belts to get out the other side in good shape.

 

[Splog]

If it is that good in the public sector, why not get a job in it? So easy, never get fired, gold plated pensions! Come on in, the waters lovely.

If your not happy with your pension then why not get a proper job in the private sector?

The simple fact is that the public sector have had it too easy for too long. The country is screwed and some people like to bury their head in the sand and think their Angeles and gods gift to the community ........ and that somehow they are exempt from the problems? they're aren't...

 

[whiteflyer]

If it is that good in the public sector, why not get a job in it? So easy, never get fired, gold plated pensions! Come on in, the waters lovely.

If your not happy with your pension then why not get a proper job in the private sector?

The simple fact is that the public sector have had it too easy for too long. The country is screwed and some people like to bury their head in the sand and think their Angeles and gods gift to the community ........ and that somehow they are exempt from the problems? they're aren't...

You beat me to it, as I was just about to add:


If the public sector is that bad then leave and join the private sector, the grass is so much greener over this side

 

[posiview]

The simple fact is that the public sector have had it too easy for too long.

I've worked in the public sector for the last 12 years and, at the risk of getting , I can't disagree with these comments. I have to be very specific, this is in relation to my specific sector and may not reflect public services in general.

Cheers.

 

[johnnypanic]

You beat me to it, as I was just about to add:


If the public sector is that bad then leave and join the private sector, the grass is so much greener over this side

This issue isn't about, or at least should not be about, public versus private sector.

This is about public sector workers defending, not only their jobs, but the services that they provide.

The truth is, those members working in the private sector, who are posting on this thread, would be the same people who, if they worked in the public sector would be defending their right to defend their position.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, happily in this case, mine is correct

 

[acetone]

The strike had NOTHING to do with protecting service, it was about keeping your golden pension.

DO NOT try and get people on your side with a pack of lies.

 

[Islander]

Our pensions aren't golden. Maybe the top paid civil servants have large pensions, but then so do the seniors in the private sectior and both are a minority. Most of the public sector workers don't get that large a pension. Now go away and learn some facts other than the crap in the tabloids before you call us liars.

With that, I'm out of this thread.

 

[tiler65]

My wife's pension is good compared to her wage and she is an average wage earner.

 

[acetone]

A public sector pension is a guaranteed sum, unlike a private sector pension which is subject to the ups and downs of investment. A private sector worker taking their pension at the height of the financial crisis will have lost thousand due to the fall in the stock market.

A public sector work will have lost nothing, because the tax payers will top up any loss to the guaranteed sum.

Now that is a golden pension.

We don't need to read the tabloids to know your on a ****ing good deal, that the rest of have to top up for you.

If you don't like being called liars then don't lie, as I said the strike had nothing to do with saving services at all.

 

[johnnypanic]

The strike had NOTHING to do with protecting service, it was about keeping your golden pension.

DO NOT try and get people on your side with a pack of lies.

Actually you're completely wrong.

I'm a NIPSA member and we took strike action, not only about the pensions issues, but also about pay cuts and staff cuts.

So perhaps, before you feel the need to use any other large fonts, you'll actually get your facts right.

 

[johnnypanic]

My wife's pension is good compared to her wage and she is an average wage earner.

Well, I'm not trusting you, if you can't even remember your own name

 

[stupar]

I have never seen so many sweeping comments as there are in this thread!
Public sector workers have their head up their arse etc! how just how?????????

Lets just generate a bit of perspective here!

I work in the public sector, I am not in the union therefore did not strike.
I work hard for the pay I get and the pension I/you and my employer pay into.
I am grateful for a job at present and take anything to do with pensions, job cuts, pay etc as they come good or bad.

I know nothing about the private sector so never comment, the same should happen the other way round for all those who think they know everything about the public sector but have never actually worked within the sector!!!!!!

My job is important as I provide a service to the Scottish public and economy.

So please don't say I am not important, have my head up my arse, am on to a good thing with a cushy job etc.

I agree that the civil service is top heavy with some overpaid and underworked people but that does not give the god given right to tar everyone with the same brush.

 

[Matt]

politics guys...please try and avoid...

i thought the pay cut was more a low pay rise which would be below inflation and therefore a paycut? is that correct?

 

[Splog]

politics guys...please try and avoid...

i thought the pay cut was more a low pay rise which would be below inflation and therefore a paycut? is that correct?

I don't get all this talk of pay cuts?? I think they are reffering to less take home pay as a result of paying more into the pension fund.

 

[Defiance]

The over-riding message here is for public sector workers to join the real world.

Pay cuts, job cuts, pension cuts are a necessary evil created by the state of the economy and a huge national debt.

We're in this mess together and unfortunately we all have to make our sacrifices to correct this situation - unless we want to end up like Greece.

This means everyone so you can understand why private sector workers who've been through this already have no sympathy for the public sector who don't want to do their bit.

 

[stupar]

I don't get all this talk of pay cuts?? I think they are reffering to less take home pay as a result of paying more into the pension fund.

From my own perspective if the proposals go ahead I will pay an extra £68 per month as a pension payment, however the money will instead go to fill in the government black hole of defecit.

As for cuts, I don't quite get it either. I'm on a freeze this year with maybe a 1% rise next year if we are lucky.

I guess when you compare a 1% pay rise to the cost of inflation that's where the pay cut is being suggested.

Personally I'm just happy to have a wage coming in no matter what it is.

 

[stupar]

This means everyone so you can understand why private sector workers who've been through this already have no sympathy for the public sector who don't want to do their bit.

Still not an excuse to go around branding us as all the same. :nono:

 

[Dale_tem]

From my own perspective if the proposals go ahead I will pay an extra £68 per month as a pension payment, however the money will instead go to fill in the government black hole of defecit.

No

It means they contribute less and you contribute more. Your money goes into your pension (it is made available when you need it). A lot of government money goes into your pension. They have looked at the ratio of their contributions to yours and reduced it. You still get a lot more out than you put in. The money the government is using this money saved to reduce national debt.

Your money goes into your pension, stop saying something else happens with it as that is lies.

 

[Dale_tem]

Still not an excuse to go around branding us as all the same. :nono:

It is hard not to when (aparently) the majority agreed on the action.

Where were the public workers against the action?

 

[whiteflyer]

We all thought we we lucky were I work as we got a 2% rise in 2010 when we expected nothing and 1% last year, then again over the last 12 years I have been at this particular firm we have never had more than a 2.75% rise. So you could say we have had a pay cut for the last decade or so ( against the cost of inflation)

For those who have been with the company for 15 years or more, they still have a final salary pension scheme, but employee contribution have been continually raised.

Those who started after this group could join a new scheme were the company put 4% of salary in and you did not have to contribute if you did not want to, but could put any amount in you wished (up to legal limit)

That has now been scraped for new employee and the newest scheme the company will match what you put in up to I believe 4%.

There have be redundancy's here, and they have even scrapped our Christmas party this year and stopped the free turkey we used to get

We have all had our retirement age increased, personally I'm not that much worse off as I'll only be 66 when I retire from my heavy lifting manual job, not the 68 that many of my workmate will be.

I don't expect any sympathy, and I'm not going to give anyone else having to suffer the same or less any sympathy back.

 

[stupar]

No

It means they contribute less and you contribute more. Your money goes into your pension (it is made available when you need it). A lot of government money goes into your pension. They have looked at the ratio of their contributions to yours and reduced it. You still get a lot more out than you put in. The money the government is using this money saved to reduce national debt.

Your money goes into your pension, stop saying something else happens with it as that is lies.

I only took my info from the pensions calculator that the government put up on the internet and then quickly pulled down again and that calculator suggested something completely different

It is hard not to when (aparently) the majority agreed on the action.

Where were the public workers against the action?

Like I say, I do my job, I get my pay. I did not strike and I'm not fussed what happens with my pension either way. I just told the facts as they stand from my personal situation.
What I don't like is being brandished as something I am clearly not.

 

[Defiance]

Still not an excuse to go around branding us as all the same. :nono:

I didn't want to make the post too personal or use branding like 'gold-plated' etc - I was trying not to pick our individuals or their views. I'm referring to the voting majority and realise that there are some like yourself, who do view the matter more realistically

 

[sportysnaps]

The public sector and most of the private sector did not cause this mess so why should we pay for it?

People in the Private sector are entitled to better pensions that should match those in the public sector, and they should stand up for the right for a descent retirement package as those in the public sector have.

The UK is not a poor Country - we just seem to have a succession of leaders (including the current ones ) who are keen to miss manage the finances in the same way that the head of a household ****es the family income against the wall (on a Friday night) instead of looking after the finances as they should.

We seem to “have” the money to have several wars and feed half of the world but not feed our own people,:shrug: or give those that risked their life’s to give us the freedoms that we enjoy a decent retirement – this is wrong and needs to be addressed. :rules:

 

[johnnypanic]

The public sector and most of the private sector did not cause this mess so why should we pay for it?

People in the Private sector are entitled to better pensions that should match those in the public sector, and they should stand up for the right for a descent retirement package as those in the public sector have.

The UK is not a poor Country - we just seem to have a succession of leaders (including the current ones ) who are keen to miss manage the finances in the same way that the head of a household ****es the family income against the wall (on a Friday night) instead of looking after the finances as they should.

We seem to “have” the money to have several wars and feed half of the world but not feed our own people,:shrug: or give those that risked their life’s to give us the freedoms that we enjoy a decent retirement – this is wrong and needs to be addressed. :rules:

Well said that man

 

[whiteflyer]

People in the Private sector are entitled to better pensions that should match those in the public sector, and they should stand up for the right for a descent retirement package as those in the public sector have.

Well if they stopped topping up public sector pension out of general taxation, they could then lower the income tax rate, giving people in the private sector more money to buy a better pension.

You see the private sector can't afford a better pension while we are paying for the better public sector one.

 

[johnnypanic]

Well if they stopped topping up public sector pension out of general taxation, they could then lower the income tax rate, giving people in the private sector more money to buy a better pension.

You see the private sector can't afford a better pension while we are paying for the better public sector one.

Don't know about the other pension schemes, but the NHS pension scheme I'm in, does not cost the taxpayer anything. In fact, the government actually takes a substantial sum of money out of it, each year.

The government spin doctors have generalised about the whole issue and unfortunately people believe this information rather than actually finding out the correct facts.

 

[Matt]

We are a poor country, we owe more than our assets are worth. That's not a good thing.

 

[whiteflyer]

Don't know about the other pension schemes, but the NHS pension scheme I'm in, does not cost the taxpayer anything.

As said a number of times the NHS scheme is not a pension scheme in the normal sense of the word, your contribution go straight into the general taxation pot and your pension will come straight out of general taxation.

What you put in is paying for those who have already retired, and as over the last decade or so the has been a huge rise in the number of NHS staff more money is currently going in than coming out, BUT this will not be the case in a few years time when the current NHS staff retire and a lot more will be going out of the pot that will be going in.

The idea that you have more in the pot than you need is another spin by the union to make you think your getting a raw deal.

With pensions you have to think over a very long time, not the last couple of years as the union is doing, the UK's total liability for funding public sector pensions has reached £1.13 trillion over the next few decades, so for the public sector pensions not to need topping up out of our taxes each current employee would need £189,000 going into the fund.

 

[mikeyb]

Hi,

This Govt and others have been really successful at getting the ordinary public to fight amongst themselves and they are still doing it.

Just ask an MP when he/she qualifies for FULL pension benefits AND how much they contribute, I can guarantee it's not 11% (mine - rising to 15 % soon ) of your wage for 30 years, I mean come on some Civil Servants have only recently starting contributing anything at all and I think it's only 3% in some cases.

I wish people would get over this 'Golden or Gold Plated Pension' comment, it was coined ( pardon the pun ) by the media machine driven by the Govt and really galls someone like myself that we have been portrayed as lazy good for nothing money grabbers, who because the 'private sector' are cutting back should expect to be cut back too, it's all a load of *******s about this country struggling with cash, let's stop sending money to India ( £600m ) - let's stop sending money to feed the starving in Africa ( who let's face it, we're only saving them to starve later ) - stop bombing other countries at the cost of millions per week, oh and finally how about the banks give us our money back that WE LOANED THEM.

YES I am a public sector worker, who currently pays over £260 per month towards my pension, I haven't had a pay rise in 2 years ( even though our local council got the money from the Scottish Office to pay it - they kept it ! - and then to make it even worse our Council Chief Exec gave himself a 5% pay rise ???? ) and after 30 years I think I deserve the pension I was promised, let's face it if it was an Endowment policy or such, like I would be entitled to get what I was promised, if I didn't I would be able to try and claim back the difference.

The other reason a lot of pension 'pot's are struggling is because local govt spent them !!

People will NEVER agree on this issue and that's what the Govt and the money men are hoping for, we should all be sticking together not fighting over it, this country has become so.... F everyone else I'm only concerned about ME, which is sad.

Mike.

 

[whiteflyer]

let's face it if it was an Endowment policy or such, like I would be entitled to get what I was promised, if I didn't I would be able to try and claim back the difference.

In fantasy land maybe.

Well you would get back what was promised as in the small print it will say something like "Your investment may go down as well as up and you may not receive the full amount needed to pay of your mortgage" Ask the thousands who have a short fall after 25 years.

Now you were correct about MPs pensions as Gordon Brown quietly improved the scene from 1/50th of pay per year worked to 1/40th, and the NHS is 1/60th but in 2010 the Senior Salaries Review Board made recommendations to Government. The measures will see MPs’ pension age rising from 65 to 68. Crucially, it will also recommend that MPs should only be able to accrue benefits at a rate of no more than one 1/60 a year, they currently pay 6% of their salary in to the fund/pot.

 

[sstar]

I work in the public sector, doing work that is also easily transferable to the private sector. If i was doing the same job for a private company i would expect to earn 25% more that i do now. That extra money could be used to set up a pension far better than i am paying into now.

 

[Marc]

I work in the public sector, doing work that is also easily transferable to the private sector. If i was doing the same job for a private company i would expect to earn 25% more that i do now. That extra money could be used to set up a pension far better than i am paying into now.

On what do you base that?