'Value' of C & C

:grin: well that just goes to show doesn't it lol
 
boyfalldown said:
I'd be interested to know your thoughts
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It's the Emperor's New Clothes!

A technically flawed photograph made $265k because it was copyright Cartier-Bresson. If it had been an original Miller it might have made $26.50 if the framing was good! :p

As an analogy in music, if I make a horrible noise, fools will say 'what a horrible noise' but wise men will call it great music!



[BTW, I rather like the grey, blurry Hyeres 1932 and would happily have a print of it somewhere on a wall ;) ]
 
very few of Cartier-Bressons are critically sharp by digital standards... he clearly was not preoccupied with pixel peeping.
However all his shots show astonishingly good compositions and the tones always contributed to the overall work.
Even a 1930's leica would have had no trouble stopping movement in the bicycle.
So the way it is is the way he wanted it. If you look at his other works you will see that he often toyed with movement and used it to contribute to the overall impression of the moment.

Grain was a fact of life.

I would say on-line criticism has a purpose and shows what values various people have as their priorities. It says very little about the work under discussion but torrents about the people giving the Crit. Criticism can not change the work one Iota, but it can change perceptions and priorities. It can also be ignored.............
 
Yves Geza said:
A technically flawed photograph made $265k because it was copyright Cartier-Bresson. If it had been an original Miller it might have made $26.50 if the framing was good! :p
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Original Millers don't often fetch £26.50 :)
 
Try googling '1970s wedding photos' and imagine what would happen if you posted some of those here!
 
kelack said:
Oi :bat: :LOL: Numpties also know how to press ban buttons :p
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LOL.. what exactly have I done now?

This place sucks sometimes... It's like being in South Korea.

Go on then big fella.. do it. Passed caring. This place just goes from bad to worse in the free speech stakes.

Had enough.
 
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I use flickr. I'm obviously a numpty :p but I'm not that big and definitely not a fella :LOL:

And the use of the smilies was obviously showing my post was in jest
 
Pookeyhead said:
LOL.. what exactly have I done now?

This place sucks sometimes... It's like being in South Korea.

Go on then big fella.. do it. Passed caring. This place just goes from bad to worse in the free speech stakes.

Had enough.
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cup of tea? A lie down in a darkened room? It was a joke, hence the poking tongue smiley... and what do you mean South Korea, how insulting is that? Its North Korea here I'll have you know :bat: :p
 
Yv said:
cup of tea? A lie down in a darkened room? It was a joke, hence the poking tongue smiley... and what do you mean South Korea, how insulting is that? Its North Korea here I'll have you know :bat: :p
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:clap:
 
While it’s great to receive feedback and certainly worthwhile to hear things that help you improve your technique, the criticisms you hear online are often from people who don’t know what they’re talking about, so don’t give too much weight to negative comments!
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Can it be implied from the last sentence that you should ignore all negative feedback whilst at the same time lapping up all of the 'great shot' comments that you often get on Flickr?
 
The 'numpties' on flickr tend to hang out in these 'delete' groups. I swear they just hang there all day waiting for new additions to the groups so they can slate it in a very 'clever' manner. I don't touch such groups.

That link proves how ignorant some of them are to photography in general. Even I knew that was an old classic! And I know sod all ... :D
 
If this place is supposed to be like South Korea we're gonna need a lot more Gangnam.

[youtube]CH1XGdu-hzQ[/youtube]

:D
 
Ed Sutton said:
Let's not forget the satirical:

http://theonlinephotographer.blogspot.co.uk/2006/06/great-photographers-on-internet.html

http://theonlinephotographer.typepa...at-photographers-on-the-internet-part-ii.html
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Thank you very much for these! (y)


"Great try, better luck next time"
rotfl.gif
 
Lol at some of the comments. I looked at the images and found almost all of them were awesome. The one that I struggled to find appeal in was the old woman and the dog.
 
Just goes to show how we have become obsessed with pixel perfect sharpness and other such technical stuff at the expense of truly great photos. I guess it's because it's easier to asses and achieve these things than it is to be an artist!
 
kelack said:
I use flickr. I'm obviously a numpty :p but I'm not that big and definitely not a fella :LOL:

And the use of the smilies was obviously showing my post was in jest
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Apologies if it was.. I just get threatened with being banned a great deal. 4 times in the forum, and once via PM now. When you've been threatened with being banned r suspended so many times, you fail to see the humour in it.

As for your gender.. I just see green now, and look no further, sorry. I have no confidence in the moderation of this forum. Maintaining the status quo is far more important than anything else. Thread starts to raise some awkward points?.. easy.. just accuse everyone of getting "heated" and lock the thread.


As for your "I use use flickr, I'm obviously a numpty" comment... So do I... and these "groups" are full of numpties... stop being so sensitive.
 
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Cagey75 said:
I knew that was an old classic!
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i'm going to get burned at the stake for this but - yes its HCB, but its still blurry , soft, and uninteresting ... it got slated on flickr because its not that good a photo (okay its composed on thirds but is that really all it takes to be great ?)

if one of us took it and posted it here it would rightly get ripped apart , but because its HCB some people think its compulsory to stroke their chins contemplatively while saying "oh yes, I can see what he was doing there"

some of HCBs work is certifiably brilliant - but this isn't one such , and I wouldn't give you £2.56 for it, 256k is bonkers
 
ZoneV said:
If this place is supposed to be like South Korea we're gonna need a lot more Gangnam.

[youtube]CH1XGdu-hzQ[/youtube]

:D
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that's Yv on the right hand side and cobra getting out of the car at the back :LOL:
 
Back on topic.... doesn't this highlight the need to know if whoever is giving you feedback is talking crap or not? What better way to do that than see who they are, what they shoot, and how good their work is. As this thread demonstrates, anyone can give crit, yeah... but it's usually a load of b****x written by proxy by people who just read internet tutorials and have no idea about photography.

I'm sure there was another thread on this subject recently :bang:
 
Pookeyhead said:
but it's usually a load of b****x written by proxy by people who just read internet tutorials and have no idea about photography.

I'm sure there was another thread on this subject recently :bang:
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not really - because as I said just because its by HCB doesn't make it automatically good* - and therefore thinking something by HBC is crap doesn't automatically mean you are talking ballcocks.

*unless you fall into the reverential chin stroking camp of course - but then reading b****x should be second nature anyway

how would you critique that photo if it was taken by one of your students , rather than the might HCB for example ?
 
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Pookeyhead said:
Back on topic.... doesn't this highlight the need to know if whoever is giving you feedback is talking crap or not? What better way to do that than see who they are, what they shoot, and how good their work is. As this thread demonstrates, anyone can give crit, yeah... but it's usually a load of b****x written by proxy by people who just read internet tutorials and have no idea about photography.

I'm sure there was another thread on this subject recently :bang:
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But the thing is there you're saying... Take me for example, you could post a photo and I could say I think you could do xyz.... Not necessarily from experience but because looking at it that's what I think.... You could/would say... You don't know what you're talking about because you haven't the knowledge blah blah blah

Yet!..... A couple of more pro's come into the same thread, give the same advice I did and you'd listen to them because they are more knowledgeable than I am?
 
Cg_Girl said:
But the thing is there you're saying... Take me for example, you could post a photo and I could say I think you could do xyz.... Not necessarily from experience but because looking at it that's what I think.... You could/would say... You don't know what you're talking about because you haven't the knowledge blah blah blah

Yet!..... A couple of more pro's come into the same thread, give the same advice I did and you'd listen to them because they are more knowledgeable than I am?
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:clap: And that's why it's far too scary to try and give crit. I have absolutely no technical knowledge whatsoever and couldn't tell some one they need to up their ISO or whatever - I just know that I like what I see when I see it.

It's not always easy to say why you like it either - therefore I tend to avoid giving crit - apart from in the 365 threads anyway - where we all know each other quite well, so it's somehow a bit different :LOL:
 
Pookeyhead said:
Back on topic.... doesn't this highlight the need to know if whoever is giving you feedback is talking crap or not? What better way to do that than see who they are, what they shoot, and how good their work is.
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Another problem with forum/group feedback is that there are just too many people giving it. All with slightly differing views, but each expecting you to take their comments on board as being correct.

The most useful advice comes from people whose opinions you trust and respect - preferably a mere handful of them.

As for HCB - the way his pictures are seen now, having become famous images, is different to the way they were seen when first shown, or even when each of us first saw them. Familiarity breeds contempt. Especially when many of them have been mimicked so frequently. Some I have tired of, others I never will. The bicycle and stairs picture is deceptively simple.
 
Cg_Girl said:
But the thing is there you're saying... Take me for example, you could post a photo and I could say I think you could do xyz.... Not necessarily from experience but because looking at it that's what I think.... You could/would say... You don't know what you're talking about because you haven't the knowledge blah blah blah

Yet!..... A couple of more pro's come into the same thread, give the same advice I did and you'd listen to them because they are more knowledgeable than I am?
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Not at all.. if I was a beginner and your advice was exactly the same as everyone else's then there's clearly a consensus of opinion. Plus it also depends what nature the crit takes. If it is criticising technically, then yes, I'd be more inclined to listen to those with a proven track record, as there is always so much conflicting advice with such crit.

If it's aesthetic or conceptual crit, then I'd be very circumspect of everyone's advice, as being a professional doesn't necessarily mean much then. Someone who's spent 40 years shooting weddings may not quite get what you're trying to achieve, and will probably be judging the work from a fairly prescriptive standpoint. With crit of this nature... you listen to those that are saying things that make sense according to your own vision.

...but when people start critting your work technically... I think you should listen to those with a great deal of experience in whatever field is under crit than those that appear to have no work to judge them against. If everyone is saying the same things... then sure.. that's easy... but there are MANY threads where is conflicting advice.. who does the beginner believe?

A good example is when amateurs give advice that effectively means "fix it in post processing" and then go into great detail about a lightroom or Photoshop process.... it all looks very plausible, and probably, to some extent, effective to the beginner, but any professional will just cringe at such advice... and for good reason. Who does the beginner believe?
 
big soft moose said:
i'm going to get burned at the stake for this but - yes its HCB, but its still blurry , soft, and uninteresting ... it got slated on flickr because its not that good a photo (okay its composed on thirds but is that really all it takes to be great ?)

if one of us took it and posted it here it would rightly get ripped apart , but because its HCB some people think its compulsory to stroke their chins contemplatively while saying "oh yes, I can see what he was doing there"

some of HCBs work is certifiably brilliant - but this isn't one such , and I wouldn't give you £2.56 for it, 256k is bonkers
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I said I knew it was an old classic, never actually said I liked it, or even what I thought about it personally ;)
 
Pookeyhead said:
Not at all.. if I was a beginner and your advice was exactly the same as everyone else's then there's clearly a consensus of opinion. Plus it also depends what nature the crit takes. If it is criticising technically, then yes, I'd be more inclined to listen to those with a proven track record, as there is always so much conflicting advice with such crit.

If it's aesthetic or conceptual crit, then I'd be very circumspect of everyone's advice, as being a professional doesn't necessarily mean much then. Someone who's spent 40 years shooting weddings may not quite get what you're trying to achieve, and will probably be judging the work from a fairly prescriptive standpoint. With crit of this nature... you listen to those that are saying things that make sense according to your own vision.

...but when people start critting your work technically... I think you should listen to those with a great deal of experience in whatever field is under crit than those that appear to have no work to judge them against. If everyone is saying the same things... then sure.. that's easy... but there are MANY threads where is conflicting advice.. who does the beginner believe?

A good example is when amateurs give advice that effectively means "fix it in post processing" and then go into great detail about a lightroom or Photoshop process.... it all looks very plausible, and probably, to some extent, effective to the beginner, but any professional will just cringe at such advice... and for good reason. Who does the beginner believe?
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Thank you, your first 3 words 'not at all are' enough for me:D and i do sort of get what you are trying to say (sort of),

One thing tho, and hoping i don't sound thick here but your last sentence... about effectively means fix it in processing, why will a pro cringe? why?
 
Cg_Girl said:
Thank you, your first 3 words 'not at all are' enough for me:D and i do sort of get what you are trying to say (sort of),

One thing tho, and hoping i don't sound thick here but your last sentence... about effectively means fix it in processing, why will a pro cringe? why?
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PRO -likes to get the shot right "in camera" leaving little or no PP

Les (y)
 
I disagree with that. Even film shooters post-processed. Pro or not. All that SOOC stuff grates on my nerves. There's groups for people whothink it's a great deal on Flickr ...


PRO - someone who actually gets paid week in and out.


Nothing to do with how they shoot or process.
 
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