'Value' of C & C

I'm sorry... but I have explained my problems with moderation in my PM to you as requested, and all I get is, both from Hacker.. and from you via PM.. words to the effect of "If you don't like it, leave".

So what exactly was the point of asking me?

I'm gonna step back before I really let rip.
 
woof woof said:
Anyway, along comes some random bloke and posts that there's too little DoF in the first shot and too much in the second... and here was me thinking they were both perfect. In that moment I realised that it's what I think of my own shots that matters and I don't really need some random bloke on t'net telling me I've get too little or too much DoF, or anything else for that matter.
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and thats fine - but in that case don't post them in the feedback and critique boards or you're going to get it whether you like it or not (photos for pleasure... and no that isn't synonymous with N&G.. is the place for shots you don't want crit on)
 
big soft moose said:
and thats fine - but in that case don't post them in the feedback and critique boards or you're going to get it whether you like it or not (photos for pleasure... and no that isn't synonymous with N&G.. is the place for shots you don't want crit on)
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I didn't and I don't.

As I said, it was on another forum and the images were posted as examples of what is possible with a Sigma 30mm f1.4. The comments about too little and too much DoF were therefore even more... futile.
 
woof woof said:
I didn't and I don't.

As I said, it was on another forum and the images were posted as examples of what is possible with a Sigma 30mm f1.4. The comments about too little and too much DoF were therefore even more... futile.
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:LOL: I was just reading yours and Pete's posts and kept thinking huh? how does Pete know there was a photos for pleasure on another forum :LOL:
 
kelack said:
:LOL: I was just reading yours and Pete's posts and kept thinking huh? how does Pete know there was a photos for pleasure on another forum :LOL:
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pretty much every forum has photos that can be used for pleasure :naughty:
 
Not an attempt to gloss over other issues raised in this thread, but they're already being handled by others and I'd like to come back to the point raised earlier about being "qualified" to give crit.

I've spent a lot of time telling new members that everyone has an opinion and everyone is equally capable of turning that opinion into thoughtful critique on a photo in a constructive way.
I think it would be a huge shame if anyone took away from this thread the idea that they can't give crit if they don't have a certain level of experience.
(BTW I don't think that's what anyone is actually saying, and I do agree on the points made about technical advice but that distinction may not be completely clear in all the posts)

To use the restaurant analogy again :

> Everyone can go to a restaurant and have an opinion on whether they like the food or not.

> With a little thought everyone can explain what they like or don't like about the food.
There was a nice balance of textures / It was too spicy or too bland / It tasted nice but the presentation on the plate was sloppy / The veg were over or undercooked etc etc etc.
Sometimes this is subjective, but other times a piece of burnt toast is just a piece of burnt toast whichever way you look at it :shrug:

Anyone with tastebuds can do this and anyone with a pair of eyes can give this sort of feedback / critique on a photo.

> What we can't all do is advise that the meal would be greatly improved if the chef had added an extra qtr tsp of cinnamon at this point in the recipe, increased the temperature by 20 degrees and reduced the cooking time by 10 minutes :D
And that is the sort of response that is clearly going to have more credibility from someone who has cooked that dish a hundred times than somebody who has never cooked . . . or indeed somebody who cuts and pastes that advice straight out of a cookery book.
 
SarahLee said:
Not an attempt to gloss over other issues raised in this thread, but they're already being handled by others and I'd like to come back to the point raised earlier about being "qualified" to give crit.

I've spent a lot of time telling new members that everyone has an opinion and everyone is equally capable of turning that opinion into thoughtful critique on a photo in a constructive way.
I think it would be a huge shame if anyone took away from this thread the idea that they can't give crit if they don't have a certain level of experience.
(BTW I don't think that's what anyone is actually saying, and I do agree on the points made about technical advice but that distinction may not be completely clear in all the posts)

To use the restaurant analogy again :

> Everyone can go to a restaurant and have an opinion on whether they like the food or not.

> With a little thought everyone can explain what they like or don't like about the food.
There was a nice balance of textures / It was too spicy or too bland / It tasted nice but the presentation on the plate was sloppy / I would have preferred the veg to be cooked a little more or little less etc etc etc.

Anyone with tastebuds can do this and anyone with a pair of eyes can give this sort of feedback / critique on a photo.

> What we can't all do is advise that the meal would be greatly improved if the chef had added an extra qtr tsp of cinnamon at this point in the recipe, increased the temperature by 20 degrees and reduced the cooking time by 10 minutes :D
And that is the sort of response that is clearly going to have more credibility from someone who has cooked that dish a hundred times than somebody who has never cooked . . . or indeed somebody who cuts and pastes that advice straight out of a cookery book.
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:clap: this for me is exactly how it should be, I've a lot of love for this forum and most ;) of the membership...this forum has shaped me into the photographer that I am today and for that I'm truly thankful

The green team on the whole the an amazing job we have our odd disagreement but usually on both my part and the team we are mature enough to be able to resolve those in an amicable and private fashion...

So I'd like to say thanks to the green team for there continued great service

As to C&C of course it's only natural to value critique from those that have been there and got the t-shirt but I'd hate to see a forum where there where there is a quasi hierarchical structure for giving critique after all who is going to vet the credentials of those giving critique an more over what's to make people provide those credentials??
 
MWHCVT said:
:clap: this for me is exactly how it should be, I've a lot of love for this forum and most ;) of the membership...this forum has shaped me into the photographer that I am today and for that I'm truly thankful

The green team on the whole the an amazing job we have our odd disagreement but usually on both my part and the team we are mature enough to be able to resolve those in an amicable and private fashion...

So I'd like to say thanks to the green team for there continued great service

As to C&C of course it's only natural to value critique from those that have been there and got the t-shirt but I'd hate to see a forum where there where there is a quasi hierarchical structure for giving critique after all who is going to vet the credentials of those giving critique an more over what's to make people provide those credentials??
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The thing is Matt, that by saying the part I have bolded, it is making it look like that is what people are saying [especially to those lazy beggars that are skim reading :naughty: ], when in fact no one in this thread has said that. IN fact it has been repeated ad nauseum that critique of an artistic nature is purely opinion and everyone can and should offer that kind of critique. What has been questioned is the value of the technical advice, which is entirely different - I quite like Sarah's cooking analogy btw - and even then, no one is suggesting some kind of rating system or credential checks, just suggesting that having an awareness of what is being said and checking yourself, as a member, that its accurate. Thats all ;)
 
Yv said:
The thing is Matt, that by saying the part I have bolded, it is making it look like that is what people are saying [especially to those lazy beggars that are skim reading :naughty: ], when in fact no one in this thread has said that. IN fact it has been repeated ad nauseum that critique of an artistic nature is purely opinion and everyone can and should offer that kind of critique. What has been questioned is the value of the technical advice, which is entirely different - I quite like Sarah's cooking analogy btw - and even then, no one is suggesting some kind of rating system or credential checks, just suggesting that having an awareness of what is being said and checking yourself, as a member, that its accurate. Thats all ;)
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I'd hope that no member of the forum would knowingly give inaccurate guidance but then as has been said in the past every day is a school day in photography...I can admit I've been wrong in the past, and where I have I'm happy to acknowledge that fact it doesn't happen too often thankfully

The reality for me is all I want to see is real honest critique, done properly it should never upset people...in fact if I was finding that people were getting upset at my critique on a regular basis the first place I'd be looking at for fault would be myself

Surely as grown adults which apparently the vast majority of the members of this forum are we should be able to identify how to communicate in such a way as to not cause offence, this should be one of the first things we learn in childhood (how to be nice)
 
Pookeyhead said:
That very question makes my point for me. You really wanna open this can of worms in a public forum? Really? You really want to derail a really interesting thread to satisfy your own curiosity? Start a new one in the Forum Feedback bit.. or whatever it's called.

If you value a particular member's feedback, why not PM them?
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Right. You call us out in the thread and then say we shouldn't do the same? Did I miss the bit where you started making the rules? Who the hell do you think you are?? Not only that but the tone of your post suggests a threat which means you think we have something to be scared of.

We've had enough reasons to ban you 20 times over for being rude, argumentative, disruptive. We chose not to. You know why? Because we make joint decisions, that takes the emotional element out of it. Just because our collective opinion varies with yours doesn't make it wrong. In fact, your posts suggest that everyone reporting you is wrong. That's the same arrogant attitude that comes across in a lot of your posts and it's not attractive.

Bit-Tech has absolutely nothing to do with here, every forum has its own personality. I'll say what others have said. If you don't like ours just leave. Don't continue to disrupt it in the name of free speech and "straight talking". It's not welcome.
 
Marcel said:
Right. You call us out in the thread and then say we shouldn't do the same? Did I miss the bit where you started making the rules? Who the hell do you think you are?? Not only that but the tone of your post suggests a threat which means you think we have something to be scared of.

We've had enough reasons to ban you 20 times over for being rude, argumentative, disruptive. We chose not to. You know why? Because we make joint decisions, that takes the emotional element out of it. Just because our collective opinion varies with yours doesn't make it wrong. In fact, your posts suggest that everyone reporting you is wrong. That's the same arrogant attitude that comes across in a lot of your posts and it's not attractive.

Bit-Tech has absolutely nothing to do with here, every forum has its own personality. I'll say what others have said. If you don't like ours just leave. Don't continue to disrupt it in the name of free speech and "straight talking". It's not welcome.
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:agree:
 
Marcel said:
Right. You call us out in the thread and then say we shouldn't do the same? Did I miss the bit where you started making the rules? Who the hell do you think you are?? Not only that but the tone of your post suggests a threat which means you think we have something to be scared of.

We've had enough reasons to ban you 20 times over for being rude, argumentative, disruptive. We chose not to. You know why? Because we make joint decisions, that takes the emotional element out of it. Just because our collective opinion varies with yours doesn't make it wrong. In fact, your posts suggest that everyone reporting you is wrong. That's the same arrogant attitude that comes across in a lot of your posts and it's not attractive.

Bit-Tech has absolutely nothing to do with here, every forum has its own personality. I'll say what others have said. If you don't like ours just leave. Don't continue to disrupt it in the name of free speech and "straight talking". It's not welcome.
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I think it'd be good to make an effort to calm things down. Rather then everyone waving e-willys. Careful David will get his pink armour on and the where will we be

Now it would be good if we could go back to discussing an interesting and amusing article.
 
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And it's comments like THAT that start it all again :(

It's meant to be a fun place!






Where's the nuke button :grin:
 
Yv said:
Might have to send out for supplies, the white wine rack is empty :(

:puke: If you must, but you can go and sit over there, in that dingy corner, away from where I can smell them :p
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That's not good enough, get the supplies
 
Yv said:
Might have to send out for supplies, the white wine rack is empty :(

:puke: If you must, but you can go and sit over there, in that dingy corner, away from where I can smell them :p
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:D I cannot say what we used to call them on the bar I used to run at my local rugger club but oh not had any in months got the craving now....pop in any time Yvonne not scampi fries here but there is never a empty wine rack in my house :D
 
Is it a Midlands thing to call it rugger as I've just said that up our rugby club and they've ****ed themselves laughing
 
kelack said:
Is it a Midlands thing to call it rugger as I've just said that up our rugby club and they've ****ed themselves laughing
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I must be :D but then I come from and was born in Rugby :D
 
boyfalldown said:
That's not good enough, get the supplies
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you may be shocked, but I have opened BEER!! :eek: Did that thing of wondering to the fridge, opening it, looking inside and suddenly thinking yes, I want one of those. :LOL:

Now then, who wants to post an obscure image by an otherwise well known snapper and let us critique it? :D
 
Yv said:
you may be shocked, but I have opened BEER!! :eek: Did that thing of wondering to the fridge, opening it, looking inside and suddenly thinking yes, I want one of those. :LOL:

Now then, who wants to post an obscure image by an otherwise well known snapper and let us critique it? :D
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:)
 
ZoneV said:
*throws Yv a Singha*

Need an opener or are you ok?
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Sorted! Cheers *chink chink*



Hugh.... if I am being serious for moment, I could make a comment about the famous version and why it is so over the less well known one. In the famous one Millers pose is a perceived 'vulnerability', she is hiding her body from the picture on the side of the bath and looking absolutely away from it - the other one is just a woman in the bath, as it were - no wonder the first one is the one that has become famous. Technically its a competent image without being 'WOW' [as we would say today], but its location and timing were everything!

Now the really pressing question, is this one of those £26.50 original Millers? :naughty:
 
big soft moose said:
how dare you speak about Yv like that :bat: :LOL:
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It's not me that you've got to worry about with that one, but send me a recent photo and I'll sort out some missing posters in a couple of weeks, maybe some milk cartons too
 
MWHCVT said:
It's not me that you've got to worry about with that one, but send me a recent photo and I'll sort out some missing posters in a couple of weeks, maybe some milk cartons too
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nah she'll take it in good part - she's short and sweet after all

and if not i'll just pop her in a jam jar until she's calmed down :LOL:
 
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