WAMT....what annoyed me today!

When I posted about blaming the parents I was wrong as no matter what your upbringing or early life horrors may be you have free will and can decide how to behave and what company to keep. One decision I remember clearly making as a child was that what I lived through would end with me and others are clearly free to make the same decision, should they have any empathy.

For me and I suppose many others it's not so much major crimes but more the anti social annoyances such as littering, people riding motor/push bikes irresponsibly, acting in a loutish and threatening way, vandalism etc. I don't know anyone who's been murdered, I know one person who was raped, I can't think of anyone who's been seriously assaulted, one who's been burgled, a few more who've had property stolen or vandalised around the house, outbuildings and gardens and more who've suffered motor related crime which still seems to be a biggie despite improvements in car technology. A company car of mine was stolen and found with a burnt out clutch the next day and I've had numerous instances of vandalism. So that's not too bad really.
 
nilagin said:
Definitely not men. I think there are a few people around the area, that would dearly love to make them bitches.
If they are men, you can guarantee they did similar stuff when they were younger too. My wife has worked at a local primary school for almost 20yrs, some kids are trouble makers at that young an age, it isn't any surprise they continue into adulthood.
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Reference anti-social behaviour in Europe in your initial response to my post, you mentioned the bikes thrown into the canals of Holland..that surprises me.

I won't highlight in bold lettering the part of your post I've quoted here that I'm specifically responding to as I got myself into a spot of bother doing that last time but it's teachers in primary schools (ie your wife) that I'm responding to. As you say, they see the first indication of future problem children. I was going to say that it's a complicated subject but in one way it's not.

But first, would you have a scan over this paper It's long but a few pages will address your other point re having playing fields available which you also mentioned in your initial response.

In a thread like this it's not practical to dig up vast amounts of relevent data..it wouldn't be read anyway but as I see it Social Services just isn't funded as it should be. According to the Kings Fund report 2018/19 spending has increased but is half a billion below the 2010/2011 level .What a short-sighted policy to spend less in the most deprived areas but that's what's happened between 2010/11 and 2017/18 and whereas 30 councils with the highest deprivation cut services by 17% per person compared to 3% per person in 30 least-deprived areas.

This short article, whilst from the US, encapsulates what my thinking is. Early intervention . I'm a firm believer that substantial funding put into this aspect is money well spent and is certainly cost effective when compared to the costs involved in not doing so. It's not just a financiaI issue but a societal issue. It benefits society in much reduced anti-social behaviour and crime. Unfortunately, it actually states in this article that policymakers ignore it there in the US as well as here.
www.theatlantic.com

When Crime Is a Family Affair

Kids have a habit of imitating their parents’ criminal behavior. It’s no wonder, then, that by one measure, 10 percent of families account for two-thirds of criminals.
www.theatlantic.com www.theatlantic.com

Most crime is committed by the same persistent offenders and all too often include whole families. I can't find the figure but I've heard that 90% of crime is committed by the same 10%. Crime and anti-social behaviour go hand in hand. For years I've been perplexed by our justice system. For starters, at least, it doesn''t deal effectively with these people. Every city and town in the country has it's problem/criminal families who regularly feature in press court reports and invariable one member or more is in prison at any given time. I recall that at one time defence lawyers tried to get previous convictions withheld when it came to sentencing those found guilty. They just wanted the one offence infront of the court to be dealt with. Fortunately, they failed. However, it's still the case that a persistent offender with a previous convictions list as long as your arm will get a couple of years for a house burglary which, in my opinion is an underestimated crime as far as the effect it has on the victim . I've long thought that each time an offender is brought before a court for his stock -in-trade burglary the sentence doubles and they actually serve the full term. The reason is that too many fail to respond to any attempts at any other course of action to get them to desist.

I've said for years that any Party that actually allocates proper funding to the whole Justice/social services system (includes policing) rather than pay it lip service and can show a real difference will be in power for years. People are extremely concerned about law and order. A professional, involved in this area speaking on the radio in the last couple of days, said the Justice system is broken.
 
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woof woof said:
When I posted about blaming the parents I was wrong as no matter what your upbringing or early life horrors may be you have free will and can decide how to behave and what company to keep. One decision I remember clearly making as a child was that what I lived through would end with me and others are clearly free to make the same decision, should they have any empathy.


I don't agree with you re parents. They have a responsibility to point out right and wrong, to give guidance. If children run riot in the locality then he/she has had no boundaries set, no respect for others instilled. Usually, parents impose (for want of a better term) their values onto their children. I listen a lot to the radio and often hear of people who have done well tell of their poor home environment and despite that have turned out well but I think they are the exception. Seems you are one of those, so well done. Of course, it's different these days to when I was a kid and the huge difference is social media. I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that social media has, basically, taken over the role of parents when it comes to the what I've outilned. It must be quite hard bringing up kids these days. It's just struck me that social media is like a cult. The cult takes over .Another aspect that was never an issue when I was a kid was that my mother was at home all day. These days, all too often, both parents are out working to make ends meet and that in-itself must put a strain on the household. It's a big subject.

For me and I suppose many others it's not so much major crimes but more the anti social annoyances such as littering, people riding motor/push bikes irresponsibly, acting in a loutish and threatening way, vandalism etc. I don't know anyone who's been murdered, I know one person who was raped, I can't think of anyone who's been seriously assaulted, one who's been burgled, a few more who've had property stolen or vandalised around the house, outbuildings and gardens and more who've suffered motor related crime which still seems to be a biggie despite improvements in car technology. A company car of mine was stolen and found with a burnt out clutch the next day and I've had numerous instances of vandalism. So that's not too bad really.
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You'd be interested to know that I recall a survey that asked people what,in order, were their day to day concerns re crime and anti-social behaviour. Burglary and robbery came 5th and 6th as I recall. Top of the list was..it seems trivial....litter..riding bikes on footpaths.. parking on footpaths. It's easy to see why. Last year just 2% of people suffered a home burglary. By the way, it's not TV's and Hi-Fi systems they go for but the car keys and any personal documentation .They can sell that re ID theft. Compare that to experience, on a daily basis, of the above.. Infact,this morning I took my car to a local garage and walked back home. About a 20 minute walk. It was 8.00am. Not one cyclist was on the road. Not a main road but a minor road. I can understand the children going to school doing it..I expect their parents tell them to keep off the road but several were adults who cared about their own safety as they wore helmets. I first became aware of one cyclist as he came up behind me when I heard the brake being applied as he had to wait for me to get past the lampost. I did get a few sheepish looks because I look them at them eye to eye as they near me. They don't even have bells fitted but I thionk I'd be a tad annoyed if a cyclist rang his bell to tell me to get out of the way,in reality. Most times the first you're aware of them is when they pass by. Re litter. This afternoon I put on a glove and picked up a face mask..the blue ones..off the road. It must have been thrown out of a car window. As I did so a keep fit lady was running by and saw me doing that and said that she gets around a lot with her running and these masks are on the ground all over the place.

I hear that Singapore is the place to live. :) I didn't realise they have the death penalty for certain offences. Drug trafficking being one and murder,of course.
www.gov.uk

Singapore travel advice

FCDO travel advice for Singapore. Includes safety and security, insurance, entry requirements and legal differences.
www.gov.uk www.gov.uk
 
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nilagin said:
I would be intrigued to know who is dumping bicycles and mopeds in the canals in Holland.
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I have no idea, however Holland has a lot of both bicycles & canals so you might expect to find a lot of the one dumped in the other :) But is in similar in proportion per head of population to U.K.?
 
One for Mrs WW.

She's been working on a presentation on gardening for her English for speakers of other languages exam (she's Thai) for a few weeks and has spoken about it and had practice runs and roll plays in class several times in the last few weeks (and we've taken lots of photos and printed them out) but was told yesterday that she couldn't do it and had to choose from either fashion or music as a topic. This is despite being previously told she could pick her own subject and despite the tutor being fully aware of what she was working on as they've gone through what she's been doing multiple times. She isn't interested in either topic and knows little about either, also she was told she had to email it in by Wednesday. So that's three weeks or so's work wasted and she needs to do it all again on a new subject in a couple of days.

Grrrrr. Redcar college have been a disaster with an endless stream of incompetence and poor service.
 
woof woof said:
One for Mrs WW.

She's been working on a presentation on gardening for her English for speakers of other languages exam (she's Thai) for a few weeks and has spoken about it and had practice runs and roll plays in class several times in the last few weeks (and we've taken lots of photos and printed them out) but was told yesterday that she couldn't do it and had to choose from either fashion or music as a topic. This is despite being previously told she could pick her own subject and despite the tutor being fully aware of what she was working on as they've gone through what she's been doing multiple times. She isn't interested in either topic and knows little about either, also she was told she had to email it in by Wednesday. So that's three weeks or so's work wasted and she needs to do it all again on a new subject in a couple of days.

Grrrrr. Redcar college have been a disaster with an endless stream of incompetence and poor service.
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As a long-shot, how about choosing the song 'In an English Country Garden' as the topic for 'music' and then linking that to a quickly modified version of her presentation on gardening? Then, in summing up, she could drag it back on topic by saying that that's what the song made her think of (her interest in gardening, and the happiness and relaxation this brings her) and how powerful the lyrics of songs can be in triggering memories, thoughts and emotions? :)

Don't blame me if this doesn't work, but it might be worth thinking about if it can be done without being too obvious and there's no alternative other than a re-sit?
 
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Our wedding caterers have gone into liquidation and have said they don't know when we'll get our deposit back... Fair enough, but then they have posted on social media this morning saying they are closing, with no nod to the wedding parties they are letting down but instead how they are still selling pie this weekend for delivery! It's really p***ed me off. I wonder is some of the sale of pies money is coming our way!
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
People who write "roll" when they mean "role"... :naughty: :coat:
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I tend not to ‘educate’ people for that sort of thing these days. Sometimes it the spillchucke/grammar correction software. I had “Wed” as in Wed, Thu, Fri” changed to “We‘d” yesterday, and it’s just done it again as I write this :( . Could turn it off but it is convenient with my rotten typing :).

The one that gets me is “piqued” which people on photo forums write often but usually spell as “peaked” or “peeked” which unfortunately are words also often used there :(.
 
sphexx said:
I tend not to ‘educate’ people for that sort of thing these days. Sometimes it the spillchucke/grammar correction software. I had “Wed” as in Wed, Thu, Fri” changed to “We‘d” yesterday, and it’s just done it again as I write this :( . Could turn it off but it is convenient with my rotten typing :).

The one that gets me is “piqued” which people on photo forums write often but usually spell as “peaked” or “peeked” which unfortunately are words also often used there :(.
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The thing is that I'd imagine people normally don't take an awful lot of care when posting here, probably not the level of care you'd take when writing a formal letter or email so the odd slip is probably guaranteed. Not that it'll happen with me as frankly I don't care but nit pick the wrong person's post on the wrong day and all it'll do is get them to follow you until you're hoisted on your own petard, and that'll usually happen pdq.
 
Mr Badger said:
As a long-shot, how about choosing the song 'In an English Country Garden' as the topic for 'music' and then linking that to a quickly modified version of her presentation on gardening? Then, in summing up, she could drag it back on topic by saying that that's what the song made her think of (her interest in gardening, and the happiness and relaxation this brings her) and how powerful the lyrics of songs can be in triggering memories, thoughts and emotions? :)

Don't blame me if this doesn't work, but it might be worth thinking about if it can be done without being too obvious and there's no alternative other than a re-sit?
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That's not bad thanks :D She's been understandably very upset about this but cheered up a bit when I suggested that she go for fashion and compare western fashions to Thai traditional clothing which she does know something about. We've picked out some pictures of frankly ridiculous western fashion shoot stuff (you'll know the sort of things) and contrasted them with the IMO quite beautiful traditional Thai wear which manages to (again IMO) make women look feminine and beautiful and men look striking but still manly.

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We paid for this course which makes the lack of professionalism and poor service harder to take. The next course is Functional English and it's free but as the experience to date has been so poor she's thinking of quitting after this exam which is fair enough as she has a good level of English and has all she needs for immigration purposes.
 
Don't even get me started on the frequent use of the word sat, instead of sitting: The man was sat at the bar when the incident happened. No he wasn't! The man was sitting at the bar.
 
tikkathreebarrel said:
Yes but is "off of" worse than "should of"?
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I gave up letting that bother me years ago because almost everyone says it. Now I just enjoy the surprise if someone says; 'would have', 'should have' or 'could have'. :jawdrop:
 
Mr Badger said:
Don't even get me started on the frequent use of the word sat, instead of sitting: The man was sat at the bar when the incident happened. No he wasn't! The man was sitting at the bar.
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Sat is usually used as past tense, whilst sitting is used for present tense.
Technically both can be used in your example because although it describes what the man was doing at the time of the incident, the incident is in the past.
If the incident is currently happening, then sitting would apply.
 
Sky said:
I gave up letting that bother me years ago because almost everyone says it. Now I just enjoy the surprise if someone says; 'would have', 'should have' or 'could have'. :jawdrop:
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They just don't realise they are saying should've or could've. Simple abbreviations that are often spelt wrongly when written
 
nilagin said:
Sat is usually used as past tense, whilst sitting is used for present tense.
Technically both can be used in your example because although it describes what the man was doing at the time of the incident, the incident is in the past.
If the incident is currently happening, then sitting would apply.
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No. 'Was sitting' indicates past tense. 'Was sat' is therefore grammatically incorrect when used in that context. Sat is a verb and not an adjective. The cat sat on the mat. The cat was sitting on the mat.
 
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tikkathreebarrel said:
Yes but is "off of" worse than "should of"?
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Yes because the "of" in "off of" is superfluous and indicates a lack of grammatical rigour.

The "of" in "should of" merely indicates a lack of grammatical rigour.

Both offences ought to be punishable by summary execution :ROFLMAO:
 
They seem to say "get off of me" a lot in American films.
 
Mr Badger said:
No. 'Was sitting' indicates past tense. 'Was sat' is therefore grammatically incorrect when used in that context. Sat is a verb and not an adjective. The cat sat on the mat. The cat was sitting on the mat.
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I‘m not entirely sure. It sounds like an extension of the present continuous tense “I am sitting” and so on. The person who “was sitting” is placing themself in that past time and ‘narrating’ what was happening/what happened :( but also ;) and ;) .
 
sphexx said:
I‘m not entirely sure. It sounds like an extension of the present continuous tense “I am sitting” and so on. The person who “was sitting” is placing themself in that past time and ‘narrating’ what was happening/what happened :( but also ;) and ;) .
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No. Used in the context I described 'sat' is not standard English and is grammatically incorrect. It might be local dialect, but that doesn't make it grammatically correct. You wouldn't change 'He was talking at the bar' to 'He was talked at the bar', so why change 'was sitting' to 'was sat'? Even in the narrative past tense, the narrator should say or write either "I was sitting at the bar" or "I sat at the bar". Not '"I was sat at the bar". The same applies to use of the words standing and stood. :)
 
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Mr Badger said:
No. Used in the context I described 'sat' is not standard English and is grammatically incorrect. It might be local dialect, but that doesn't make it grammatically correct. You wouldn't change 'He was talking at the bar' to 'He was talked at the bar', so why change 'was sitting' to 'was sat'? Even in the narrative past tense, the narrator should say or write either "I was sitting at the bar" or "I sat at the bar". Not '"I was sat at the bar". The same applies to use of the words standing and stood. :)
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I agree with you about I was sat at at the bar. I have to say I don't set much store by ’grammatically correct’ as long as the sense is clear :), so if someone said to me “I was sat at at the bar when ... “ I would perfectly understand what he/she meant :).
 
Mr Badger said:
No. 'Was sitting' indicates past tense. 'Was sat' is therefore grammatically incorrect when used in that context. Sat is a verb and not an adjective. The cat sat on the mat. The cat was sitting on the mat.
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Your example says "when the incident happened" the word when, indicates past tense. ;)
In your example both sat and sitting are verbs, both describe an action, neither are adjectives, as neither describe a person or object.
 
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nilagin said:
Your example says "when the incident happened" the word when, indicates past tense. ;)
In your example both sat and sitting are verbs, both describe an action, neither are adjectives, as neither describe a person or object.
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Put simply, a verb is a 'doing' word, an adjective is a 'describing' word. However, it gets a bit more complex than that: https://learnenglish.britishcouncil.org/english-grammar-reference/ing-forms (see 'ing' forms as adjectives). Note the example provided: "Who is that man standing over there?" and also note the use of the word standing, and not stood.

Can you now see how 'sat' and 'sitting' should be used? Now go and sit in the corner and think about what you've done! ;) When you do, you'll be sitting in the corner, not sat in the corner. (y)
 
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Mr Badger said:
Put simply, a verb is a 'doing' word, an adjective is a 'describing' word. However, it gets a bit more complex than that: https://learnenglish.britishcouncil.org/english-grammar-reference/ing-forms (see 'ing' forms as adjectives). Note the example provided: "Who is that man standing over there?" and also note the use of the word standing, and not stood.

Can you now see how 'sat' and 'sitting' should be used? Now go and sit in the corner and think about what you've done! ;) When you do, you'll be sitting in the corner, not sat in the corner. (y)
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Standing is a verb and an adjective though.
A. It tells us what the man is doing.
B. It describes the man to differentiate him from anyone else there, for example people who are seated.
 
nilagin said:
Standing is a verb and an adjective though.
A. It tells us what the man is doing.
B. It describes the man to differentiate him from anyone else there, for example people who are seated.
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And of course he could be a person in ‘good standing’ :exit:
 
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