What an utter waste of life

[JohnC6]

The intent comes from purposeful driving the wrong way, I’ll be honest I have no intention of arguing with you, I’ve said my opinion and you’ve said yours which I respect . I’m simply not interested in debating which ‘opinion’ is better.

My bold. WeIl,I think that's the best option for you, tbh because by saying what you have just confirms my belief that you don't fully understand what the discussion is about. So that you aren't left wondering ,I'll explain it. It's different to what I've said before and is focussed on what you've just said. The 'intent' is not, in this case, about deliberately driving the wrong way on a carriageway but the act of killing someone as a result of it. Two completely separate issues. As ever, I'm open to being shown that I'm wrong and will acknowledge that and in that spirit I hoped that Garry, who clearly has a very detailed knowledge of law, would pass comment which he has. I'd have thought those comments would have been enough for you to reconsider your understanding of the actual issue. Sadly, I see you have an ally in Cambsno, who, I'm sure, will have read Garry's comments, too but still fails to grasp what the issue is.

 

[Garry Edwards]

It seems to me that what we have here is a few straightforward people who have different opinions, each of which is valid, and none of us is about to change our mind.

But perhaps I could add something to the mix?

The intent comes from purposeful driving the wrong way, I’ll be honest I have no intention of arguing with you, I’ve said my opinion and you’ve said yours which I respect . I’m simply not interested in debating which ‘opinion’ is better.

That's not how I see it. Obviously, deliberately driving the wrong way is a criminal act, and extremely irresponsible. But it could never amount to intent to kill, because it's obvious to everyone that if the intent to kill was there there would also have to be an intent to both commit suicide and to kill everyone else in the same car.

So, logic tells us that there was an intent to do something - to be totally stupid and irresponsible, to commit one or more criminal acts, perhaps to make themselves look big on social media, but not to kill themselves or to kill other people.

Not that I pretend to understand how these people think, assuming that they do, and, as I see it, that's the problem - they live in their own world.

 

[Cagey75]

they live in their own world.

The worst part no matter what way you swing it - is, they live in ours.

 

[Brazo]

My bold. WeIl,I think that's the best option for you, tbh because by saying what you have just confirms my belief that you don't fully understand what the discussion is about. So that you aren't left wondering ,I'll explain it. It's different to what I've said before and is focussed on what you've just said. The 'intent' is not, in this case, about deliberately driving the wrong way on a carriageway but the act of killing someone as a result of it. Two completely separate issues. As ever, I'm open to being shown that I'm wrong and will acknowledge that and in that spirit I hoped that Garry, who clearly has a very detailed knowledge of law, would pass comment which he has. I'd have thought those comments would have been enough for you to reconsider your understanding of the actual issue. Sadly, I see you have an ally in Cambsno, who, I'm sure, will have read Garry's comments, too but still fails to grasp what the issue is.

John not everyone has time like you to argue rubbish to the nth degree. You don’t need to worry about my opinion and I don’t need to worry about yours.

 

[JohnC6]

Do see what John is saying that its not murder but also believe that its an awful thing to deliberately put others lives at risk and should carry a jail sentence even if there isn’t an accident resulting, has to be a severe penalty for doing this

It's classed as 'dangerous driving',Pete. I went to check the sentencing and the guidelines and was taken aback to see this article.

Dated 21st August. https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money...ek-prosecuted-driving-wrong-way-motorway.html

"More than one motorist a week is prosecuted for driving the wrong way on motorways, shocking new research has found."

"Reckless individuals are risking head-on collisions on the nation's fastest moving roads simply because they have missed an exit junction.Court records show cases of people reversing along the carriageway, carrying out U-turns or driving against the flow of traffic moving at 70mph. In June, National Highways data obtained by the Press Association revealed that 947 incidents involving 'oncoming vehicles' on England's motorways had been logged in the 12 months to May 11.

That's dreadful. It really increases the odds of, at best, injury, at worst, serious injury or fatalities. As it states in the article, many more incidents go undetected. As you see, they are usually fined, get penalty points or are disqualified. Sentencing options for dangerous driving..no deaths....at Crown Court..2 years imprisonment..unlimited fine..obligatory disqualification. Magistrates can only impose up to 12 months for this offence and I assume magistrates take into consideration what the circumstances were... eg..speed, time of day, amount of traffic, the outcome and if it didn't involve a collision then they most likely, won't impose a custodial sentence .They may decide it was so serious that it should go to Crown Court where a judge can sentence up to 2 years. It seems there's quite a debate about sentencing for a driver who deliberately drives the wrong way on a motoway or dual-carriageway. I say 'deliberately' because that's the scenario you cited. I have read about old people getting confused and they usually voluntarily give up their driving licence.

Re culpability. https://sentencingcouncil.org.uk/guidelines/dangerous-driving/

Here's the sentencing table for driving offences. https://www.highwaycodeuk.co.uk/penalty-table.html

 

[JohnC6]

It seems to me that what we have here is a few straightforward people who have different opinions, each of which is valid, and none of us is about to change our mind.

But perhaps I could add something to the mix?

That's not how I see it. Obviously, deliberately driving the wrong way is a criminal act, and extremely irresponsible. But it could never amount to intent to kill, because it's obvious to everyone that if the intent to kill was there there would also have to be an intent to both commit suicide and to kill everyone else in the same car.

So, logic tells us that there was an intent to do something - to be totally stupid and irresponsible, to commit one or more criminal acts, perhaps to make themselves look big on social media, but not to kill themselves or to kill other people.

Not that I pretend to understand how these people think, assuming that they do, and, as I see it, that's the problem - they live in their own world.

Thank you Garry. I really appreciate that intervention. At least you've clarified the point re 'murder and intent' which is what it was all about.