What camera and lens?

sisu said:
And yes about the lights and tank, i was planning to shoot in pitch dark with only light in the tank, but i also want to do other shoots in bright conditions, hence a camera capable of both instead of a camera for each. I read some cameras are excellent with dark conditions, but are the same cameras good at the opposite end in bright conditions?
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It seems you are confusing your understanding of light.

If the tank is lit but is in a pitch black room, the tank is still 'bright conditions' - your lens will be up against the tank and will only be seeing 'bright conditions'.

In answer to your question 'does a camera that is good in darm also work well in bright?' YES - you can use virtually anything in bright conditions, it is only as you start to push the boundaries of dark working that the 'better cameras' begin to take over.

If you are shooting in a lit tank environment, a half decent modern camera will work just perfectly.
 
sphexx said:
I think you are missing the point of Nick's post which I believe is meant to be helpful, while light-heartedly humorous ;-)
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Oh i totally understood the post, totally got what he was saying, just a shame he didn't understand mine, apart from the fact it was totally contradictive, and blindly ignorant, it was irrelevant to anything i was asking, but like i said, if only he had read the other posts then he could of saved wasting his time and effort!
 
Lensflare said:
It seems you are confusing your understanding of light.

If the tank is lit but is in a pitch black room, the tank is still 'bright conditions' - your lens will be up against the tank and will only be seeing 'bright conditions'.

In answer to your question 'does a camera that is good in darm also work well in bright?' YES - you can use virtually anything in bright conditions, it is only as you start to push the boundaries of dark working that the 'better cameras' begin to take over.

If you are shooting in a lit tank environment, a half decent modern camera will work just perfectly.
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Thanks, yes maybe i should of been a bit more clear in my description? Maybe i should of said "am i right in thinking that if im shooting something well lit in a darkened room etc" sorry. I could of just walked into currys or jessops etc and asked a sales person, but i wanted some unbiased opinions, as i said, the descriptions on the cameras for sale can be a bit mind boggling. So, am i on the right lines in thinking that, if say, im dropping something into water and wanting to capture several shoots to get just one 'good' shoot, i need a camera with a good shutter speed and a good fps? Or just one of those?
 
viewfromthenorth said:
If you've got access to your daughter's camera why not give it a go to see if that model is suitable? I've never used Portus, so can't comment on them I'm afraid, but I've used Digitalrev in Hong Kong and they were good, while Panamoz get good recommendations.
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Thanks, she lives nearly 300 miles away so unfortunately, its not convenient to do that, thanks for the heads up on those sites though, i will give them a look, cheers.
 
Can you find, done by others, the kind of thing you have in mind? That would give everyone a better chance of helping you.
 
sisu said:
Thanks, yes maybe i should of been a bit more clear in my description? Maybe i should of said "am i right in thinking that if im shooting something well lit in a darkened room etc" sorry. I could of just walked into currys or jessops etc and asked a sales person,
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You may as well do that and you'll come away with a decent camera that you can learn on. You are still not giving a clear idea of what you want to achieve and you are being pretty insulting to the people here who are trying to help you, many of whom are professional photographers and others very experienced amateurs.
but i wanted some unbiased opinions, as i said, the descriptions on the cameras for sale can be a bit mind boggling. So, am i on the right lines in thinking that, if say, im dropping something into water and wanting to capture several shoots to get just one 'good' shoot, i need a camera with a good shutter speed and a good fps? Or just one of those?
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See, you've done it again. Is it the camera you want to drop in the water to capture shots - quite possible with a waterproof camera. Or maybe you are dropping an object into water and wanting to capture high speed movement, water splashes etc?
You need to post or link to some examples so people have a better idea of what you want.
 
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sphexx said:
You may as well do that and you'll come away with a decent camera that you can learn on. You are still not giving a clear idea of what you want to achieve and you are being pretty insulting to the people here who are trying to help you, many of whom are professional photographers and others very experienced amateurs.

See, you've done it again. Is it the camera you want to drop in the water to capture shots - quite possible with a waterproof camera. Or maybe you are dropping an object into water and wanting to capture high speed movement, water splashes etc?
You need to post or link to some examples so people have a better idea of what you want.
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Sorry, in what way have i been insulting? Really don't know how i have been.
Dropping something like ink drops into water and shooting the results, i can't be too exact as ive not decided on final details etc yet, and as for showing examples, ive already stated that ive not really come across any other examples yet that of the stuff id like to shoot and print, the best i can do is describe the situations, ie, coloured ink dropping into water, ice, the effects of light shining through ice and bouncing off it, metals, dark metals, shiny metals, light shining through a fish tank. Hence like i originally asked, a camera for both ends of the light scale, lenses for close/portrait, full or cropped frame, and is shutter speed and fps needed, basically trying to get a camera and lens to cover my needs.
 
sisu said:
Sorry, in what way have i been insulting? Really don't know how i have been.
Dropping something like ink drops into water and shooting the results, i can't be too exact as ive not decided on final details etc yet, and as for showing examples, ive already stated that ive not really come across any other examples yet that of the stuff id like to shoot and print, the best i can do is describe the situations, ie, coloured ink dropping into water, ice, the effects of light shining through ice and bouncing off it, metals, dark metals, shiny metals, light shining through a fish tank. Hence like i originally asked, a camera for both ends of the light scale, lenses for close/portrait, full or cropped frame, and is shutter speed and fps needed, basically trying to get a camera and lens to cover my needs.
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I'm not going to get into arguments with you! However your latest post is more informative. Previously you mention fish tanks and I'm pretty sure people thought you were photographing fish but now it seems you meant glass tanks or transparent water filled vessels. Have you tried googling for examples, for instance googling photograph coloured ink dropping into water" produces https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=p...J2T3ovVAhUKIsAKHeWkBXYQsAQIHA&biw=768&bih=928
 
If the subject is well lit, any DSLR from the last seven years will suffice.
Higher shutter speeds will freeze action.
A lens with a wider aperture will allow more light in, and allow higher shutter speeds, but will also narrow the depth of field. On a full frame camera, the depth of field will be narrower than on a crop sensor.
If you're dropping things into the water at a set distance from the camera, you can preset the focus, meaning that you worry less about the auto focus capabilities of the camera.
Higher FPS and buffering capabilities will allow you to capture more shots as the subject falls through the water giving you more shots to pick your preferred shot from the sequence.

Low light in the situation you're describing would be when the subject of your photograph is not well lit, and not the surrounding light in the room.
A dark room would prevent reflections on the tank glass.
 
Another contender for missing the point award.

Photography is the science of capturing photons using a light sensitive material or device, hopefully with some creativity and art.

You appear to believe that the device will do the work for you provided you have an artistic vision.

Nicks post was supposed to lead you to think about the technicalities of the craft involved, but you missed his point and thought he was suggesting you shouldn't bother.

When it comes to capturing objects dropped into water, you're not likely going to get the results you want without flash. It doesn't matter how high the shutter speed on the camera goes, or how many fps it can do, freezing that kind of motion requires more light than you'll get from an incandescent source.

Now we understand the requirement, half your budget is needed for lighting, and now a £200 camera and decent macro lens are all you'll need. Possibly another standard lens for outdoors, until you learn more about what you'll really need.

My advice for someone who has never used a camera and wants their first kit to be their 'forever' kit is that it's never going to happen, you don't know what you don't know, and none of us know what you'll be wanting to shoot in a years time. Buy a camera, it's highly unlikely to be a massive error or the last one you'll ever buy, so really it doesn't matter.
 
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Phil V said:
Another contender for missing the point award.

Photography is the science of capturing protons using a light sensitive material or device, hopefully with some creativity and art.

You appear to believe that the device will do the work for you provided you have an artistic vision.

Nicks post was supposed to lead you to think about the technicalities of the craft involved, but you missed his point and thought he was suggesting you shouldn't bother.

When it comes to capturing objects dropped into water, you're not likely going to get the results you want without flash. It doesn't matter how high the shutter speed on the camera goes, or how many fps it can do, freezing that kind of motion requires more light than you'll get from an incandescent source.

Now we understand the requirement, half your budget is needed for lighting, and now a £200 camera and decent macro lens are all you'll need. Possibly another standard lens for outdoors, until you learn more about what you'll really need.

My advice for someone who has never used a camera and wants their first kit to be their 'forever' kit is that it's never going to happen, you don't know what you don't know, and none of us know what you'll be wanting to shoot in a years time. Buy a camera, it's highly unlikely to be a massive error or the last one you'll ever buy, so really it doesn't matter.
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Thanks, things are making sense now. But then why are cameras sold and advertised as specialist cameras highlighting the fact they are more expensive because they have more fps capabilities and faster shutter speeds?
 
 
Orangecroc said:
If the subject is well lit, any DSLR from the last seven years will suffice.
Higher shutter speeds will freeze action.
A lens with a wider aperture will allow more light in, and allow higher shutter speeds, but will also narrow the depth of field. On a full frame camera, the depth of field will be narrower than on a crop sensor.
If you're dropping things into the water at a set distance from the camera, you can preset the focus, meaning that you worry less about the auto focus capabilities of the camera.
Higher FPS and buffering capabilities will allow you to capture more shots as the subject falls through the water giving you more shots to pick your preferred shot from the sequence.

Low light in the situation you're describing would be when the subject of your photograph is not well lit, and not the surrounding light in the room.
A dark room would prevent reflections on the tank glass.
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Cheers, much appreciated
 
sisu said:
Brilliant :) thank you very much for those
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Perhaps you know this but where it doesn't say what camera or lens was used, if they are on Flickr (as may are) you can see those details and shutter speed etc in the EXIF metadata. It won't tell you the lighting :-(
 
sisu said:
Thanks, things are making sense now. But then why are cameras sold and advertised as specialist cameras highlighting the fact they are more expensive because they have more fps capabilities and faster shutter speeds?
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For times when you need more fps or higher shutter speeds.

You don't have that need, but you don't yet understand why?
 
sphexx said:
Perhaps you know this but where it doesn't say what camera or lens was used, if they are on Flickr (as may are) you can see those details and shutter speed etc in the EXIF metadata. It won't tell you the lighting :-(
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Cheers, i know i have a lot of experimenting to do, like i said, im not going into this totally blind, but we all have to start somewhere :) Like for most people, i haven't got money to throw away so im just trying to find an 'ok' starting set up that will be 'adequate', i fully understand, and expect, to upgrade and add gear as i learn etc. Someone early mentioned needing a good flash, any recommendations?
 
Phil V said:
For times when you need more fps or higher shutter speeds.

You don't have that need, but you don't yet understand why?
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So what need constitutes for the need of more fps and higher shutter speeds?
 
sisu said:
So what need constitutes for the need of more fps and higher shutter speeds?
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High shutter speeds are required to:
  • Capture a shallow DoF in bright sunlight
  • Freeze fast motion using ambient light

Faster FPS are useful for:
  • Capturing peak moment images of sports
  • Capturing fleeting glances for portraits
  • Capturing high speed sequences
For capturing the kind of images highlighted by Toni you need flash, where the actual light duration is much faster than the highest shutter speeds of a camera, and the actual shutter speed is quite 'low'. They also use a specialist trigger to get the shot in a single image because the action is so fast that even at 10 fps you wouldn't get more than one shot.
 
Phil V said:
High shutter speeds are required to:
  • Capture a shallow DoF in bright sunlight
  • Freeze fast motion using ambient light

Faster FPS are useful for:
  • Capturing peak moment images of sports
  • Capturing fleeting glances for portraits
  • Capturing high speed sequences
For capturing the kind of images highlighted by Toni you need flash, where the actual light duration is much faster than the highest shutter speeds of a camera, and the actual shutter speed is quite 'low'. They also use a specialist trigger to get the shot in a single image because the action is so fast that even at 10 fps you wouldn't get more than one shot.
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Thank you
 
sisu said:
Thank you
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No problem

But remember, photographers have a sense of humour, and we are as fond and proud of our craft as any other artists.

You may be capable of achieving great things photographically, but there's craft just the same as if you were learning pottery or sculpture, please don't think it's not insulting to dismiss that craft by attributing our skills to the tools rather than the knowledge and skill required to use those tools :)
 
Phil V said:
No problem

But remember, photographers have a sense of humour, and we are as fond and proud of our craft as any other artists.

You may be capable of achieving great things photographically, but there's craft just the same as if you were learning pottery or sculpture, please don't think it's not insulting to dismiss that craft by attributing our skills to the tools rather than the knowledge and skill required to use those tools :)
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Im really sorry if ive offended anyone by my words, ive certainly not intensionally go out of my way to offend anyone, ive asked about equipment and for advice thats all, tho i feel people have gone out of there way to antagonise me for some reason, or 'humour' me as you say, should work both ways then that should, shouldn't it? You tried saying ive never used a camera? haven't i? You say photography is the science of light protons etc, i work in photonics, have done for years thank you!..... I know all too well that someone with one pencil and a scrap of paper, who has never been taught to draw could draw something far more amazing than someone who has been to university to study art and own millions of pounds worth of pencils and equipment, i asked for peoples advice, not there judgement. To say a 200 pound camera and a good lens is good enough, then i trust thats all everyone has then, as they would surely be insane to buy an expensive camera surely........... your words :)
 
sisu said:
Im really sorry if ive offended anyone by my words, ive certainly not intensionally go out of my way to offend anyone, ive asked about equipment and for advice thats all, tho i feel people have gone out of there way to antagonise me for some reason, or 'humour' me as you say, should work both ways then that should, shouldn't it? You tried saying ive never used a camera? haven't i? You say photography is the science of light protons etc, i work in photonics, have done for years thank you!..... I know all too well that someone with one pencil and a scrap of paper, who has never been taught to draw could draw something far more amazing than someone who has been to university to study art and own millions of pounds worth of pencils and equipment, i asked for peoples advice, not there judgement. To say a 200 pound camera and a good lens is good enough, then i trust thats all everyone has then, as they would surely be insane to buy an expensive camera surely........... your words :)
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I never said that's all you'd ever need. :)

I believe you need to 'wind your neck in' or whatever the youth say nowadays. ;)

What I said is 'buy a camera, use it, find out what you need'. And that none of us know what it is that you'll want to be shooting in the future, so we can't advise.

It's really straightforward, you can't possibly know what you'll need and neither can we. I currently own 9 cameras and lots of lenses and lighting gear.

You'd think if it was straightforward, another bunch of photographers would be able to list my gear? It's impossible; because what I 'need' is a personal, artistic choice, not based on print sizes or 'bright conditions / dark conditions', but based on what I might want to shoot, under what conditions and what I'd like the results to be.

I'm sorry that you think your scientific and artistic background doesn't give you the answers, and that your needs aren't enough for us to tell you either. But I'm afraid that's the truth, no b******t, no opinions, no jokes, just simple facts.

You have to learn, cameras are simple, photography isn't.
 
Phil V said:
I never said that's all you'd ever need. :)

I believe you need to 'wind your neck in' or whatever the youth say nowadays. ;)

What I said is 'buy a camera, use it, find out what you need'. And that none of us know what it is that you'll want to be shooting in the future, so we can't advise.

It's really straightforward, you can't possibly know what you'll need and neither can we. I currently own 9 cameras and lots of lenses and lighting gear.

You'd think if it was straightforward, another bunch of photographers would be able to list my gear? It's impossible; because what I 'need' is a personal, artistic choice, not based on print sizes or 'bright conditions / dark conditions', but based on what I might want to shoot, under what conditions and what I'd like the results to be.

I'm sorry that you think your scientific and artistic background doesn't give you the answers, and that your needs aren't enough for us to tell you either. But I'm afraid that's the truth, no b******t, no opinions, no jokes, just simple facts.

You have to learn, cameras are simple, photography isn't.
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Christ, all i asked for was for someones own personal opinion, someones own personal advice, anybody, and i do mean almost anybody with a profession, a talent etc, are usually more than willing to help someone trying to get into what they are into, guide them into the right direction etc. Afterall, what the hell are forums like this here for?..... Because its full of people asking questions, do you go around just telling everyone 'how the hell should we know, your needs are different to ours, we all do it different, just go find out yourselves, stop insulting us for asking, were artists your not, we've all magically learnt our trade without asking one person one question ever'..........You know, i recently bought a bicycle, hadn't rode in years, so i asked a good friend who has been riding all his life an opinion on bikes, yes, he couldn't actually choose the bike for me, but christ, he was able to, and willing to give me his f#####g advice without all this b######t........
 
sisu said:
Christ, all i asked for was for someones own personal opinion, someones own personal advice, anybody, and i do mean almost anybody with a profession, a talent etc, are usually more than willing to help someone trying to get into what they are into, guide them into the right direction etc. Afterall, what the hell are forums like this here for?..... Because its full of people asking questions, do you go around just telling everyone 'how the hell should we know, your needs are different to ours, we all do it different, just go find out yourselves, stop insulting us for asking, were artists your not, we've all magically learnt our trade without asking one person one question ever'..........You know, i recently bought a bicycle, hadn't rode in years, so i asked a good friend who has been riding all his life an opinion on bikes, yes, he couldn't actually choose the bike for me, but christ, he was able to, and willing to give me his f#####g advice without all this b######t........
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Wow! You have a really short fuse. Using lots of hashtags doesn't mean you are not swearing at folk.
 
sisu said:
Christ, all i asked for was for someones own personal opinion, someones own personal advice, anybody, and i do mean almost anybody with a profession, a talent etc, are usually more than willing to help someone trying to get into what they are into, guide them into the right direction etc. Afterall, what the hell are forums like this here for?..... Because its full of people asking questions, do you go around just telling everyone 'how the hell should we know, your needs are different to ours, we all do it different, just go find out yourselves, stop insulting us for asking, were artists your not, we've all magically learnt our trade without asking one person one question ever'..........You know, i recently bought a bicycle, hadn't rode in years, so i asked a good friend who has been riding all his life an opinion on bikes, yes, he couldn't actually choose the bike for me, but christ, he was able to, and willing to give me his f#####g advice without all this b######t........
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I could give @Phil V a camera from ten years ago and his choice of lighting and he could produce a photo better than me, you or most on here could with even £10k's worth of gear.

Or... we could advise that only the most modern camera with the lowest SNR ratio, amp noise and expensive lenses would do what you want. But they wouldn't. Knowledge of light is what you really need and if you can be bothered to listen you will benefit massively. If you can't then c'est la vie.
 
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@sisu Simon, TP has a very diverse church of experienced photographers who have tried to address your question. The help as you have noted, because of the highly specialised nature of your project, can only be general and includes assumptions and 'questions' in regard to your knowledge.

There is no way to point in any direction because of your specific needs have not been covered before!

Did you check out the link on my post #10, you may find that links throw up questions that you can link to to aid extra insight here at TP?

I remember many moons ago someone complaining bitterly that their humble camera did not take wonderful pictures like they had seen elsewhere taken by pro togs...........so they went and bought the most expensive pro camera and his pictures were no better. Then complained that he had been sold a pup.

FWIW I would say the above to anyone seeking advice whether highly specific subject and desired output or more simply "how can I take great headshots"?

As suggested by others almost any body and decent glass will get you on the road when married with what seems to me like a very crafted lighting rig. Once you have started to analyse the images only then will you reveal limitations to discuss for example lead advice.
 
Hmm read through this entire thread, and as a relative newcomer to the forum I'm a little put off.

The OP asked dumb questions and didn't explain himself. But I don't think it warranted the sheer wall of pedantry, nit picking and smugness that seems to have been deployed by some members? Feels very cliquey.
 
Playing devil's advocate. You're a talented bunch. Photography takes talent. The more talent you have the more basic the tool you can use to create a masterpiece. No one is disputing this. But what I think is frustrating the OP is he doesn't want to find he buys an expensive bunch of kit and then needs to upgrade shortly after. He's trying to ascertain what kit will help him achieve his goal.

I'm sure he knows he also needs skill, technique and experience and is more than willing to go on that journey. However he doesn't want to find himself starting that journey "wearing the wrong shoes".
 
And to the OP. I think had you explained from the outset your creative vision and the end result of the image you wished to create I'm sure people would've found it easier to offer advice, possibly differing, but certainly useful.

Something like:

"I'd like to know the best equipment for taking photos and making prints of colour dropped into water please. My budget is £xxx. Please include recommendations for camera, lens and lighting. I'd prefer not to buy anything I don't need but equally don't want to find myself too limited either.

I'm still learning the ropes as far as techniques go, however I need to know that I at least have the technical capabilities from the right kit to achieve the effect I want. And if I dont, well at least I know I'm the weak link"
 
mjmountain said:
Playing devil's advocate. You're a talented bunch. Photography takes talent. The more talent you have the more basic the tool you can use to create a masterpiece. No one is disputing this. But what I think is frustrating the OP is he doesn't want to find he buys an expensive bunch of kit and then needs to upgrade shortly after. He's trying to ascertain what kit will help him achieve his goal.

I'm sure he knows he also needs skill, technique and experience and is more than willing to go on that journey. However he doesn't want to find himself starting that journey "wearing the wrong shoes".
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But he is also hoping to tap into a knowledge base that does not necessarily include what he hopes or expects to learn.

I am not saying the OP is typical of 'searchers for help' but suffice to say TP is littered with newcomers who have come with pre-conceived expectations and in some cases it does not end well.......................though many gain one heck of lot and with, in some instances, actually help with free or cheaply offered kit get to start the route to living their dream.
 
Box Brownie said:
But he is also hoping to tap into a knowledge base that does not necessarily include what he hopes or expects to learn.

I am not saying the OP is typical of 'searchers for help' but suffice to say TP is littered with newcomers who have come with pre-conceived expectations and in some cases it does not end well.......................though many gain one heck of lot and with, in some instances, actually help with free or cheaply offered kit get to start the route to living their dream.
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Maybe so. But patronising and smug posts along the lines of "it's an art dear boy, no amount of expensive equipment will improve your photo" are a: incorrect, and b: insulting.

Otherwise we'd all be using pinhole cameras for everything.
soeren said:
The most important part of a camera is the mushy matter behind it.
And see below ;)
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holty said:
you need to learn to walk before you run
learn to take pictures first
its all about technique and experience
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Nick Owen said:
Hmm, here's a thought, maybe I can save money and commission an artist who's learned their craft and knows what he/she is technically doing and can better execute my vision. But then again, how difficult can drawing and painting be?
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sphexx said:
... you are being pretty insulting to the people here who are trying to help you, many of whom are professional photographers and others very experienced amateurs.
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Phil V said:
Another contender for missing the point award.

Photography is the science of capturing protons using a light sensitive material or device, hopefully with some creativity and art.

You appear to believe that the device will do the work for you provided you have an artistic vision.
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Phil V said:
.. please don't think it's not insulting to dismiss that craft by attributing our skills to the tools rather than the knowledge and skill required to use those tools :)
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Phil V said:
I believe you need to 'wind your neck in' or whatever the youth say nowadays. ;)
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Nawty said:
I could give @Phil V Knowledge of light is what you really need and if you can be bothered to listen you will benefit massively. If you can't then c'est la vie.
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If you want good starting setup, have a look at D7200, add to it 50mm 1.8 or 1.4, one or two flashes (I use SB700, many recommend Godox), remote trigger (Godox X1), as many light stands as you want to buy flashes, soft boxes, fast memory cards and you're good to go.
 
sisu said:
Christ, all i asked for was for someones own personal opinion, someones own personal advice, anybody, and i do mean almost anybody with a profession, a talent etc, are usually more than willing to help someone trying to get into what they are into, guide them into the right direction etc. Afterall, what the hell are forums like this here for?..... Because its full of people asking questions, do you go around just telling everyone 'how the hell should we know, your needs are different to ours, we all do it different, just go find out yourselves, stop insulting us for asking, were artists your not, we've all magically learnt our trade without asking one person one question ever'..........You know, i recently bought a bicycle, hadn't rode in years, so i asked a good friend who has been riding all his life an opinion on bikes, yes, he couldn't actually choose the bike for me, but christ, he was able to, and willing to give me his f#####g advice without all this b######t........
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I gave you some very useful advice.

You're just choosing to ignore it and concentrate elsewhere because:
  • You have no idea how correct I am
  • You don't like the fact I've challenged your preconceptions
For what you want to achieve, the camera is the least important ingredient, you can disagree with me all you like, but it doesn't make me wrong.

And BTW it's not because I'm 'smug' or 'patronising' , I've never attempted the type of image you're aiming for, but if I was to attempt it I'd be happy to use any of my cameras including an EOS 20d or even an old film camera, which is well below any advice you've been given. I don't even consider myself any sort of 'great' photographer, but I've learnt the craft.

For 30 years on and off, I've been taking photos, and most weeks I learn something new. Based on your assumption that there's no real craft to photography I must be as thick as 2 short planks. :)

And yes, the best advice to anyone looking to buy their first camera is:
Go out and buy one, like cars it's highly unlikely you'll find one that doesn't do most things most people need.

I told you that you'd need to spend a fair chipmunk on flash gear, you completely ignored that, and have asked for no more detail. Now am I being unhelpful or are you being belligerent? ;)
 
mjmountain said:
Maybe so. But patronising and smug posts along the lines of "it's an art dear boy, no amount of expensive equipment will improve your photo" are a: incorrect, and b: insulting.

Otherwise we'd all be using pinhole cameras for everything.
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You've managed to selectively quote me to completely dismiss all the advice I've given.

He and you are both wrong to assume it's about the camera. No ones suggesting a pinhole would do, (actually it might) he needs to think about lighting though.
As I've not posted it here:
Beginners think it's about cameras
Enthusiasts think it's about lenses
Photographers know it's all about the light

There was a similar thread once, a guy who was setting up a product shooting business:

He'd bought a brand new Nikon d810
He wanted to know what cheap lens to buy
He then went on to ask what lighting gear he'd need and when he got the advice he said he didn't have space for the setup.

He'd already hired space for a studio that wasn't big enough for his needs, he'd spent a budget big enough for a camera lenses and lighting on just a camera, and then complained that he didn't have money for the kit he was being advised to buy. He didn't like the fact that he'd made mistakes before asking for advice and blamed others because they couldn't tell him what very cheap kit would fit in his small space.

People who don't get the advice they want often react badly, this isn't limited to cameras.

The OP has had some great advice, but he got upset because we told him that his skill is important (which he dismissed) and the camera really isn't (which he doesn't believe).

It's not smug or patronising, it's simply factual.
 
sphexx said:
Wow! You have a really short fuse. Using lots of hashtags doesn't mean you are not swearing at folk.
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Oh, i thought it was exceptable when others did it first towards me............
 
Phil V said:
You've managed to selectively quote me to completely dismiss all the advice I've given.

He and you are both wrong to assume it's about the camera. No ones suggesting a pinhole would do, (actually it might) he needs to think about lighting though.
As I've not posted it here:
Beginners think it's about cameras
Enthusiasts think it's about lenses
Photographers know it's all about the light

There was a similar thread once, a guy who was setting up a product shooting business:

He'd bought a brand new Nikon d810
He wanted to know what cheap lens to buy
He then went on to ask what lighting gear he'd need and when he got the advice he said he didn't have space for the setup.

He'd already hired space for a studio that wasn't big enough for his needs, he'd spent a budget big enough for a camera lenses and lighting on just a camera, and then complained that he didn't have money for the kit he was being advised to buy. He didn't like the fact that he'd made mistakes before asking for advice and blamed others because they couldn't tell him what very cheap kit would fit in his small space.

People who don't get the advice they want often react badly, this isn't limited to cameras.

The OP has had some great advice, but he got upset because we told him that his skill is important (which he dismissed) and the camera really isn't (which he doesn't believe).

It's not smug or patronising, it's simply factual.
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As ive stated, several times, im not going into this blind, ive asked for opinions on cameras and lenses etc, purely, as yet again ive stated several times, i don't want to throw money away, ive clearly stated and asked about why cameras are different prices, ive said id rather not spend thousands 'if not needed', as to me, from what my 'obviously unprofessional, unartistic, and apparently wrong' views are its about firstly, the subject matter and the lighting......... hence being confused about why i should have to spend an arm and a leg on a camera?...... but its very obvious too that a totally wrong, inadequate camera and lens would also, to a certain degree, hamper my efforts...........
As for getting upset at being told my skill is important, haha, i said i have artistic background, but you dismissed that, i cleary said someone with a cheap pencil and a scrap of paper could produce much better art than someone with a million pounds worth of equipment...........You know, i totally respect your expertise, your knowledge, your views and advice, but that gives you no right to talk down and belittle others.
 
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