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stumac

stumac

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stuart
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I'm a wedding photographer and literally never shot a video in my life other than a 10 second one on my phone but my son who seconds shoots for me is showing more of an interest in video . He is on a budget but is going to shoot a few wedding videos along side me to see if A- he enjoys it and B- to work out if it's something he wants to take more seriously as a potential career.

Can anyone recommend a good starting point on cameras to get him up and running that's also going to cut it in quality terms for a wedding ? Happy to buy used
 
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most of the main brands have good video capabilities. it would sense to stick with the same brand as your photo cameras to be able to share lenses. be prepared though, video is a whole other ball game with specialist gear for sound, lights, stabilization etc etc. A lot of fun just a steep learning curve.
 
stumac said:
I'm a wedding photographer and literally never shot a video in my life other than a 10 second one on my phone but my son who seconds shoots for me is showing more of an interest in video . He is on a budget but is going to shoot a few wedding videos along side me to see if A- he enjoys it and B- to work out if it's something he wants to take more seriously as a potential career.

Can anyone recommend a good starting point on cameras to get him up and running that's also going to cut it in quality terms for a wedding ?
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seems to me you are concentrating on the visual side of making a video and forgetting the sound side. try taking a video with a camera outside and straight away you will hit a couple of issues.
First is focus, yes I know cameras have auto focus but from experience the clicking of the lens refocusing cuts right across the sound and the video is ruined.
Second is wind noise "deep rumble" across a cameras microphone again ruining a video.

There is another option worth considering is getting a camcorder and one is bound to be in your price bracket , I prefer Panasonic , had a Sony and didn't like it.
Ok why do I make this suggestion? first auto focus is smooth no clicks and no time recording limit. Next comes he sound issue, and the answer is using an extrnl microphone with a good wind muffler "deadcat". k a camcorder generally has a smaller sensor which could be an issue in a darkened room but I have not come across this in 12 years of making videos but something to be aware of. On the sublect of microphone do you get a stereo mirophone and a directional on?

I would suggest try make a video outside with a camera on a windy day first ,which you might well have to deal with at a wedding, before deciding .

wind rumble test listen to whole video with and without deadcat on

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvEkZ_S3V7o


lens clicking using a camera and lens auto focusing

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAdx5fj-XVw


now you see what I mean. If I can be of any more help then ask. Having tried out a rejected several microphone I have at last found what suits me best
 
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realspeed said:
seems to me you are concentrating on the visual side of making a video and forgetting the sound side. try taking a video with a camera outside and straight away you will hit a couple of issues.
First is focus, yes I know cameras have auto focus but from experience the clicking of the lens refocusing cuts right across the sound and the video is ruined.
Second is wind noise "deep rumble" across a cameras microphone again ruining a video.

There is another option worth considering is getting a camcorder and one is bound to be in your price bracket , I prefer Panasonic , had a Sony and didn't like it.
Ok why do I make this suggestion? first auto focus is smooth no clicks and no time recording limit. Next comes he sound issue, and the answer is using an extrnl microphone with a good wind muffler "deadcat". k a camcorder generally has a smaller sensor which could be an issue in a darkened room but I have not come across this in 12 years of making videos but something to be aware of. On the sublect of microphone do you get a stereo mirophone and a directional on?

I would suggest try make a video outside with a camera on a windy day first ,which you might well have to deal with at a wedding, before deciding .

wind rumble test listen to whole video with and without deadcat on

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvEkZ_S3V7o


lens clicking using a camera and lens auto focusing

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAdx5fj-XVw


now you see what I mean. If I can be of any more help then ask. Having tried out a rejected several microphone I have at last found what suits me best
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Thanks for your reply . Yes the sound is the one thing I'm on top of (friends a music producer ) it really the camera I'm stuck with as I only do stills so no idea on video
 
TimHughes said:
most of the main brands have good video capabilities. it would sense to stick with the same brand as your photo cameras to be able to share lenses. be prepared though, video is a whole other ball game with specialist gear for sound, lights, stabilization etc etc. A lot of fun just a steep learning curve.
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Thanks .....yes we have been looking in to all that and I can advise him on lenses etc or he can use some from my collection if he goes with canon
 
I would second the microphone is as essential as the camera for videoing. The one thing you notice when watching YouTube videos is te picture can be OK, however if the sound is poor, noisy and you can not hear any talk it is a wasted video ! !

Also some camera lens that do not have HSM, USM you will hear the clicks of the lens focusing in the audio and you can not get rid of this in post, unless you delete the whole audio and put music in its place !
 
Going purely on the videographers we meet at weddings and the prices they charge as I have no idea personally about video either:

Canon/Nikon/M43 - budget videographers, more traditional style

Sony - Mid range prices, more modern style

Panasonic full frame - High end, more modern style

My daughter has an interest in video but has no interest in weddings, she wants to be a film maker not a wedding videographer. I guess she has seen us slogging away at weddings, the long hours etc. and it just isn't for her. In terms of equipment she uses Sony just because that is what we use and she can use, borrow as she wants. In an ideal world though if she had her own choice with no budget to worry about she would have Panasonic full frame, not sure why that is, but it seems to be the preferred choice at the moment, I assume the specs are best suited.

Based purely just on what I have seen most of the video guys who are new and are starting from scratch seem to choose Panasonic M43. They also all seem to use a speedbooster on their lenses. I just assume the video specs for these offer the best option in terms of spec vs price.

I think its great that your able to work with your son!
 
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Just a quick note i do hav e a Boya BY-SM80 fol sale which can be either directional or stereo with a deadcat if interested.
Just a couple of things worth considering is getting a microphone with detachable lead so if anything happens ithe lead can b e replaced not the whole microphone and which battery it takes . Below AAA btteries
P1050913.JPGP1050912.JPG
 
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Most of the video guys I come across at wedding these days seem to be using Canon 5d4. They all seem to have a manual focus "rig" a cage with the lens focus worked from the cage. I'd say the few others use Sony with no gadgets just a camera.
I've not seen a pro camcorder used for years.
 
swanseamale47 said:
Most of the video guys I come across at wedding these days seem to be using Canon 5d4. They all seem to have a manual focus "rig" a cage with the lens focus worked from the cage. I'd say the few others use Sony with no gadgets just a camera.
I've not seen a pro camcorder used for years.
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that is nearly a £3,000 camera without a lens and memory card or flash unit, and Stuart is on a budget in his initial post. So I think that may well be out of the price range he is thinking of to get him up and running
 
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the way I see it is you have a camera for photos and a camcorder for videos but that is just my opinion
 
I do the occasional video wedding and I always ensure it’s just the visual side of things, audio is always just a music track prechosen. Apart from the slowness, more than happy with the R5 for the video side of things.
 
stickytape said:
I do the occasional video wedding and I always ensure it’s just the visual side of things, audio is always just a music track prechosen. Apart from the slowness, more than happy with the R5 for the video side of things.
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That's a weird one, pretty much every wedding video I have ever seen has some audio from the vows or the speeches, even highlight videos usually include some.
 
True - occasionally I’ve done the speeches and have various microphones and preset up cameras for different angles (LUMIX G9, Nikon Z6) in addition to me moving around.. but that’s rare, mostly just the full on visual. No audio needed.
 
What camera does he use to second shoot at the moment? Maybe he can start with that? Zero cost.
 
Without knowing what you guys already own. Low cost starters than produce spot on video, a lot of Panasonic gear, m43 or L mount. Maybe a GH5 as it's cheaper to get now the GH6 is out and they're used by Top Gear/ Grand Tour crews for example. No need to get sucked into the FF is better thing, considering big production companies use m4/3 gear alongside pro cine gear and skip full completely.

But then, as somebody said, all the top brands do decent video so it's down to what you have and what you need.
 
TimHughes said:
What camera does he use to second shoot at the moment? Maybe he can start with that? Zero cost.
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He's using a 5dmk3 but I want a mirrorless system for him ideally with eye tracking etc .
 
Damian Brown said:
Without knowing what you guys already own. Low cost starters than produce spot on video, a lot of Panasonic gear, m43 or L mount. Maybe a GH5 as it's cheaper to get now the GH6 is out and they're used by Top Gear/ Grand Tour crews for example. No need to get sucked into the FF is better thing, considering big production companies use m4/3 gear alongside pro cine gear and skip full completely.

But then, as somebody said, all the top brands do decent video so it's down to what you have and what you need.
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I need everything ....I'm a wedding photographer using r6 and 5d4 but that's my stills kit so I'm starting from scratch for his kit for video but all my research is pointing towards Sony ....I've just no idea what's the best bang for little buck
 
stumac said:
I need everything ....I'm a wedding photographer using r6 and 5d4 but that's my stills kit so I'm starting from scratch for his kit for video but all my research is pointing towards Sony ....I've just no idea what's the best bang for little buck
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GH5. G9. S5. T4. 4 top options for bang for buck
 
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stumac said:
I need everything ....I'm a wedding photographer using r6 and 5d4 but that's my stills kit so I'm starting from scratch for his kit for video but all my research is pointing towards Sony ....I've just no idea what's the best bang for little buck
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A7SIII and the A1 are the kings for video if you are going Sony, both are expensive options though and that's before you buy any decent glass and good Sony glass can be nuts price wise. You will also need to be careful which lenses you choose as a lot of Sony glass has heavy focus breathing.

I see you mention eye a.f above, not come across a wedding videographer that uses it very much, they usually mostly use manual focus, A lot of the guys that use Sony don't even use a.f lenses. That is what we see at our weddings anyway.

In your position I would probably hold of buying anything for now. You are bound to have a few local videographers that you are friendly with, I would reach out to them and ask can your son second shoot a few weddings with them. Once he has a little experience he will likely know better himself what his equipment needs are.

@f/1.4 on here shoots video professionally, perhaps he can help with some suggestions. He is also based in N.I, maybe he can point you towards where your son could pick up some second work.

I know the wedding video guys in N.I have a private Facebook group where they can have a moan about photographers and book each other for second work, they tend to work together a lot more than photographers here do. Not sure if @f/1.4 is a member or not but maybe he can point you in the right direction.
 
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stumac said:
I need everything ....I'm a wedding photographer using r6 and 5d4 but that's my stills kit so I'm starting from scratch for his kit for video but all my research is pointing towards Sony ....I've just no idea what's the best bang for little buck
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Sony offers the best video autofocus but it would make more sense to me to stick with Canon kit. The R7 has good video performance and video autofocus and the ability to share lenses, batteries etc might help you out a lot initially.

Also matching footage and your stills is going to be easier if you want to use stills and video together.
 
Your son can start learning and practicing now with the 5DM3. I might be old but it can make good video. Once he has had made a start he will know what features of the newer or different models will be important for him for the look he wants to produce.
 
As someone almost completely unfamiliar with either video or weddings, I wonder what the clients do with them. My guess is that since they are skewed to a younger age group that they possibly only ever see them on phones or tablets rather than big screens. Is all this high-definition FF stuff worthwhile?
 
realspeed said:
that is nearly a £3,000 camera without a lens and memory card or flash unit, and Stuart is on a budget in his initial post. So I think that may well be out of the price range he is thinking of to get him up and running
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Well if the idea is wedding videos the dual card function is a good backup, and you really want a decent camera. Not sure why he'd need a flash for video though?
 
Hi Stuart, I can help with any advice regarding cameras, audio or anything else to be fair. We are primarily photographers but shoot a fair bit of video too. I think you followed us the other day on the gram - we are soulful.

We shoot on the A1 and S3 for video and they are incredible but very pricey - probably not what I’d suggest for even most established shooters lol
 
f/1.4 said:
Hi Stuart, I can help with any advice regarding cameras, audio or anything else to be fair. We are primarily photographers but shoot a fair bit of video too. I think you followed us the other day on the gram - we are soulful.

We shoot on the A1 and S3 for video and they are incredible but very pricey - probably not what I’d suggest for even most established shooters lol
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Yes I gave you a follow , unreal stuff on your page ! Thanks for your offer . I'm looking at the Sony a6400 or a slightly older varient. At the moment it's just for him to learn on to see if he's actually going to stick at it and more importantly if he's any good lol . He's only 18 but it's a path he wants to follow and im very much in support of it :)
 
He's on a budget, he's just starting "to see if it works out...................."

In view of that, he is unlikely to be offering professional services just yet, and hopefully won't be expecting to have a camera that looks like part of a BBC crew, and results are going to depend more on him than on the camera.
Of course all that will change fairly quickly if he decides to continue.

Thing I didn't notice was whether he wants to start and practice using HD or 4k (I'm sure HD should be fine in the early stages to try things out and decide what to eventually get)

Point made above, just try it first so that he can see what he needs and wants, and another mention from above is Panasonic.

Panasonic have given video performance well above their price for many many years, not at all expensive (starting on 4K would be more, but I imagine that would be the same with any make) and would take excellent HD videos to start on and get used to it and editing etc.
(I think the G6 was the first to have a mic socket, and with a 14-42 OIS lens they can be had for less than £150, and do 1080/60p Video)
 
Sangoma said:
He's on a budget, he's just starting "to see if it works out...................."

In view of that, he is unlikely to be offering professional services just yet, and hopefully won't be expecting to have a camera that looks like part of a BBC crew, and results are going to depend more on him than on the camera.
Of course all that will change fairly quickly if he decides to continue.

Thing I didn't notice was whether he wants to start and practice using HD or 4k (I'm sure HD should be fine in the early stages to try things out and decide what to eventually get)

Point made above, just try it first so that he can see what he needs and wants, and another mention from above is Panasonic.

Panasonic have given video performance well above their price for many many years, not at all expensive (starting on 4K would be more, but I imagine that would be the same with any make) and would take excellent HD videos to start on and get used to it and editing etc.
(I think the G6 was the first to have a mic socket, and with a 14-42 OIS lens they can be had for less than £150, and do 1080/60p Video)
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Thanks for this . Yes and all your assumptions are correct :) he's going to start video with me at my weddings ...but only the ones where the couple haven't chosen to have video so no standing on other videographers toes and also no pressure on him . I can get him at least 20 weddings by the end of the year so he should know by Xmas if he's capable or not . I will have a look at Panasonic. 4k isn't a must but would be nice
 
stumac said:
Thanks for this . Yes and all your assumptions are correct :) he's going to start video with me at my weddings ...but only the ones where the couple haven't chosen to have video so no standing on other videographers toes and also no pressure on him . I can get him at least 20 weddings by the end of the year so he should know by Xmas if he's capable or not . I will have a look at Panasonic. 4k isn't a must but would be nice
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Has he tried with the 5DM3? or even his smartphone? I guess I'm mansplaining....there is so much more to it than simply the video camera being used and picking up a new camera won't bring the skill and experience needed to produce cool footage...
 
TimHughes said:
Has he tried with the 5DM3? or even his smartphone? I guess I'm mansplaining....there is so much more to it than simply the video camera being used and picking up a new camera won't bring the skill and experience needed to produce cool footage...
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Absolutely, he was out with my r6 tonight and he's done plenty of second shooting for me (stills) so he is developing an eye for it
 
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