What Flash for Product Photography with a Canon G12

wormishere

wormishere

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Mark
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Hi,

I started a thread a few months ago as I am a total beginner looking to start to photograph antiques etc for online sales/eBay etc.

Following the advice on here I now have a Canon G12 but now need advice on what flash gun to buy to go with it.

From reading other threads it seems like I need to be lighting the items from the side (using a flash not a constant source) and use a hotbox or similar to diffuse the flash.

I am thinking about the following....

G12 on a tripod with a remote shutter release, with a flash (possibly a Speedlite?) on a tripod mount to one side with a Lastolite Ezybox Softbox.

Can anyone offer any advice as to what flash I should be buying and if my proposed set up sounds fit for purpose?

Thanks again.
 
You can use flash with your camera, no problem.
When using a flash, a tripod is used only to make sure that the camera is in the right position, it is not needed to avoid camera shake.
The type of flash, the type and position of modifiers etc depends very largely on the type of shots you need to light, there is no single solution/setup that will work well with everything, it is about controlling the light, not about producing enough light to take the shot.
 
Hi,

Thanks for the reply. I will be shooting indoors and taking products that are going to be less than 50x50cm as a general rule, set up with a white or black background paper depending on the product, ideally all on a tabletop environment.

I was hoping to mount the flash on a tripod and to one side to add some shadows and stop the item appearing to float which is what is tending to happen at the moment when the flash is directly in front.

Any thoughts on what flash might be best?
 
What type of thing will you be shooting?
 
It will vary but probably - ceramics, silver, jewellery, books, paintings etc. I know there will not be a one size fits all but a basic setup I can adapt will be ideal.
 
OK, shiny subjects will nearly always need an overhead softbox and the main light, although some can be lit from the side.
Paintings (and especially oils/acrylics) will need a softbox each side.
If they are all very small then hotshoe flashguns are usable, but studio flash will be much easier and better able to produce the necessary even illumination.
Have you worked your way through the product lighting tutorials in the Lencarta learning centre?
 
Hi,

Yes, have been looking at the Lencarta blog - it is great, especially as I am very new to this!`

However, I think what you have in mind and what I have in mind maybe wide apart. For sure studio flash will be ideal, and in an ideal world you would have a pair of Purdey's for when you shoot (judging from your avitar). However, at the moment I have no experience and I am just looking to get started. I can upgrade when money affords, but for the moment I am just looking to buy something to start me off (think more along the lines of a second hand Browning!).

From having a dig around a 430EX Speedlite looks like a good choice perhaps?
 
wormishere said:
Hi,

Yes, have been looking at the Lencarta blog - it is great, especially as I am very new to this!`

However, I think what you have in mind and what I have in mind maybe wide apart. For sure studio flash will be ideal, and in an ideal world you would have a pair of Purdey's for when you shoot (judging from your avitar). However, at the moment I have no experience and I am just looking to get started. I can upgrade when money affords, but for the moment I am just looking to buy something to start me off (think more along the lines of a second hand Browning!).

From having a dig around a 430EX Speedlite looks like a good choice perhaps?
Click to expand...
Well, my normal clay gun is in fact a second hand Browning, I know plenty of people who have £20K guns but most of them still can't hit anything:)
It isn't actually about the cost of the equipment, it's about its fitness for purpose. In terms of cost, studio flash costs no more (and often a lot less) than branded hotshoe flashguns, but hotshoe flashguns, with their fixed reflectors simply can't work as well as studio flash, which means that although they can be used, it's much harder to get good results without a shed load of PP work and a lot of trial and error.

With my tutorials, I just tell it like it is, and leave people to decide for themselves whether they want to take shortcuts or manage with less - a bit like a family Dr who tells a mother of 3 young children that she needs to rest for a week, simply because that's the right answer, even though he knows full well that she would struggle to rest for an hour:)
 
Haha, I was shooting a Browning a few weeks ago - lovely gun - although I fall into the 'cannot hit a barn door' type of shooter!

Ahhh, I never realised there were budget studio strobes - I was thinking that a good hot shoe flash would be better than a cheap strobe ( buy the must expensive thing you can afford rather than the cheapest thing you cannot - hence the G12 rather than a DSLR).

I notice there are Godox stobes about for a reasonable prices. Are these worth (or not worth) the money? Something like the DE300 can be had for around £95 which seems reasonable...
 
The ebay Godox reseller hasn't got a clue what they're selling, and offer no warranty. Lencarta give great service and a guaranteed product.
You pays yer money and takes yer choice
 
wormishere said:
Haha, I was shooting a Browning a few weeks ago - lovely gun - although I fall into the 'cannot hit a barn door' type of shooter!

Ahhh, I never realised there were budget studio strobes - I was thinking that a good hot shoe flash would be better than a cheap strobe ( buy the must expensive thing you can afford rather than the cheapest thing you cannot - hence the G12 rather than a DSLR).

I notice there are Godox stobes about for a reasonable prices. Are these worth (or not worth) the money? Something like the DE300 can be had for around £95 which seems reasonable...
Click to expand...
You might want to see this thread...
wormishere said:
OK, so something like the Lencarta SmartFlash2 would be a good starting point perhaps? http://www.lencarta.com/studio-lighting/flash-heads/smartflash-200-studio-flash
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Yes
Phil V said:
Definitely, in fact the 2 head kit is a bit of a saving.

However, hidden between the lines in many lighting threads. It's important to have a selection of modifiers, the best money you'll spend in fact.
Click to expand...
Yes, all that the flash head does is to supply the light, in sufficient quantity and with sufficient consistency of both flash power and colour temperature. The "real" lighting job is done with the modifiers, and with shiny subjects a softbox not less than 3 times the size of the subject is essential (30cm x 20cm subject NEEDS a softbox not less than 90cm x 60cm, but bigger is better) and that's where hotshoe flashguns can't do the job well.
When people talk about the "quality of light" produced by a specific flash, what they really mean (whether they know it or not) is the quality of light produced by the modifier, not by the flash head.
 
Right, things are getting a bit clearer now...so it looks like I could do with the following...

LENCARTA
Smart Flash 2 http://www.lencarta.com/studio-lighting/flash-heads/smartflash-200-studio-flash
60cm x 60cm softbox (any bigger woulnd't fit in my room) http://www.lencarta.com/studio-lighting/softboxes/chiaro-softbox/60-x-60cm-24-x-24-square-softbox
200cm light stand http://www.lencarta.com/studio-lighting/light-stands/portable-stand

AMAZON
Background support (only for a 2m x 11m roll) http://www.amazon.co.uk/Portable-He...d=1447748432&sr=1-1&keywords=background+stand
 
Garry Edwards said:
OK, shiny subjects will nearly always need an overhead softbox and the main light, although some can be lit from the side.
Paintings (and especially oils/acrylics) will need a softbox each side.
If they are all very small then hotshoe flashguns are usable, but studio flash will be much easier and better able to produce the necessary even illumination.
Have you worked your way through the product lighting tutorials in the Lencarta learning centre?
Click to expand...

As the others have indicated, a single 60cm softbox is likely to be disappointing. Do you really not have room for anything larger or a second light?
 
juggler said:
As the others have indicated, a single 60cm softbox is likely to be disappointing. Do you really not have room for anything larger or a second light?
Click to expand...
What he said, in essence the success of this is down to how you light it, not whether you use a £20 flashgun or a £120 studio light. And 2 or 3 lights with suitable modifiers will give you better results every time.
 
Hi, sadly this is going to be a spare bedroom setup in a rented house so space is at a premium...at a push I could go for a larger softbox if the consensus is that a 60cm will be inadequate? In a year or so we might be moving so will have a garage so maybe then I can start looking at 2 or more lights.

I really am just looking to get good looking pictures rather than perfect pictures as I aim to be pushing around 300-400 images a week through it.
 
Hi, thanks for your help.

These are the sort of items but the images are better quality than I would need. All I need is a faithful representation of the item on a good (but not perfect) background. Essentially I am after good quality for selling items on eBay and various other trade websites - but with the emphasis on a high turnover of items (maybe 50 items per week with maybe 5+ images of each item).28.jpg 341.jpg 69346-2-0.jpg
 
Sorry, but you're going to need more space than you think for this type of shot.

Shot 1 is easy, I have no idea of size but you need an overhead sofbox twice the length of the subject, and either another sofbox on each side, or a softbox on 1 side and a reflector on the other - if you go for the reflector option then the softbox will need to be fairly distant.

Shot 2 Just needs a large overhead sofbox. In this shot, 2 additional flashes were used from the front but they weren't necessary and the shot would be better without them

Shot 3 again needs a large softbox overhead, but tilted forwards (which wasn't done in this shot) and another one above camera. These shots are absolutely nothing special and you can do better.
With 50 items/250 shots per week it would make sense to buy 2 extra lights to light the background, which needs to be lit separately. The alternative is to cut the backgrounds out in PP
 
Thanks again for everyone's input here.

Owing to the space I think I might have to do some PP work - but it seems that a single light with reflector will be the only way I can work (It will be a big step up from my current point and shoot camera on fully auto and no flash!)...or is there a better solution suited to a small space?

I guess another option would be to shoot on a coloured paper - the background is not important as long as it looks crisp. Would grey be a better option then?
 
wormishere said:
Thanks again for everyone's input here.

Owing to the space I think I might have to do some PP work - but it seems that a single light with reflector will be the only way I can work (It will be a big step up from my current point and shoot camera on fully auto and no flash!)...or is there a better solution suited to a small space?

I guess another option would be to shoot on a coloured paper - the background is not important as long as it looks crisp. Would grey be a better option then?
Click to expand...
A coloured paper won't work if the subject is actually sitting on it, light will bounce off of it onto the subject, tainting it with the colour.
Your best option is probably to use a white backdrop, the product base (the bit the subject is sitting on) will photograph as white, the part behind the subject will photograph as grey or possibly even black, depending on how much light accidentally spills onto it, so PP work will be needed. Using a grey background would just make matters worse.
 
Ok ok, I am conceeding that I am going to a: need more space and b: spend more money.

What about the Lencarta SmartFlash 2 Lighting Kit with 2 soft boxes - does this has pretty much everything I need (apart from the background supports). Would this enable me to take better images?
 
wormishere said:
Ok ok, I am conceeding that I am going to a: need more space and b: spend more money.

What about the Lencarta SmartFlash 2 Lighting Kit with 2 soft boxes - does this has pretty much everything I need (apart from the background supports). Would this enable me to take better images?
Click to expand...
Bear in mind that I'm very closely associated with Lencarta so not impartial - but yes, the SmartFlash kit would be perfect for your needs, except that if possible, 1 of the softboxes should be bigger. This 70 x 100cm Profold is the obvious step up and produces a better quality of light than it's cheaper non-folding friend

And, as the large softbox will normally be used overhead, you need a boom arm to fit it on to
 
Haha...this is getting even more expensive!

So let me get this right - two lights are needed so one can light the product and one can light the background (with a reflector on the other side if I cannot stretch to 3! lights) ? And the overhead lighting is typically the best way to light the product?

Could DM me your email Garry? Maybe you could send me a price for the kit with a boom arm instead of one of the stands - but I am afraid a larger box might be out of the question just for now.
 
wormishere said:
Haha...this is getting even more expensive!

So let me get this right - two lights are needed so one can light the product and one can light the background (with a reflector on the other side if I cannot stretch to 3! lights) ? And the overhead lighting is typically the best way to light the product?

Could DM me your email Garry? Maybe you could send me a price for the kit with a boom arm instead of one of the stands - but I am afraid a larger box might be out of the question just for now.
Click to expand...
Yes, overhead lighting will be needed for most of your shots, and can only be achieved with a boom arm. You can, if you pefer, get a wall-mounted boom arm instead, which will be a bit cheaper and which will also take up less space. The downside of this is that they aren't as versatile and are also permanently bolted to the wall. You can also get a boom arm attachment, fits onto a standard light stand and which takes up about the same amount of space as a proper boom arm, again they are cheaper but I've never seen one that holds the light safely.

It's possible to light the background of a small subject with just one light, but two lights does a much better job.
For most shots, 2 lights are needed on the subject alone.
The best kit for your purpose is our SmartFlash with twin softboxes, £340
Our email address is support (at) lencarta.com
 
Great thread. Always in awe of Garry's knowledge of lighting. Amazes me how he can tell instantly what light/type of light is needed for a product.

You gonna have fun. Good luck. Am sure you will nail it. Just keep posting results here, these guys will guide you in from there.

Gaz
 
Just to let you know I have ordered and received SmartFlash kit with 2 softboxes...I have been gifted a boom arm (nothing fancy but will start me going)...

Thanks for your advice...although I am sure I will be needing more in the future!
 
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