What is it with Parents scowling at photographers?

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So do you all consider it a 'right' to take peoples pictures without their consent or knowledge?

I'm just asking because im not a 'people' photographer myself - not my thing - and find the level of anger expressed (whenever this subject crops up) quite strange.
 
As a further indication as to how the country is going....

We have a police video (hand held for the moment) due to having had some trouble lately. Well this afternoon I had occasion to use it. I went outside and videoed a youth standing on my garden wall and he shouted at me to turn the thing off. I refused and told him I was within my rights to video him as he was on my property. He then said I could have a 'boyfriend' inside the house who might be a P****.

Grrrr!!!!! They think they know all the answers - but it just goes to show they all think they know their rights and that the only reasson for photographing children is because you are perverted.
 
green said:
So do you all consider it a 'right' to take peoples pictures without their consent or knowledge?

I'm just asking because im not a 'people' photographer myself - not my thing - and find the level of anger expressed (whenever this subject crops up) quite strange.
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it is - there's actually quite strong case law to support this. As importantly I consider it a 'right' not to be made to feel I'm doing something wrong by taking photos.

Hugh
 
green said:
So do you all consider it a 'right' to take peoples pictures without their consent or knowledge?

I'm just asking because im not a 'people' photographer myself - not my thing - and find the level of anger expressed (whenever this subject crops up) quite strange.
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I think the level of anger expressed is quite justified when photographer's morals are continually questioned. Seriously, the paranoia shown by people is incredible and like someone has previously said in this discussion that it appears to the public any male with a camera pointing it at kids are kiddy fiddlers. And I've only experienced this in the UK.
 
it's the same attitude that results in there being almost no male primary school teachers.

society needs to relax, be a bit more rationale and bit less paranoid - easier said than done!
 
I think I see your point of view. As I said, it's not something I'm into so have never had to deal with.

Don't think I would like someone calling me a p***...
 
Dave Stone said:
I would be more worried if I saw someone sneaking a photo with a P&S or phone. Not a tog with a huge camera.
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Yes, I would be more worried about a P&S as well. This is what confuses me about the "SLR = terrorist!" attitude as well. If I was a terrorist and taking photos of security personnel and the like, I sure as hell wouldn't use a huge great big camera that would only draw attention to myself!
 
Society needs to take it's head out of it's a**e!

Yes guys (and gals) the lunatics are taking over the asylum

The sooner the politically correct to**ers get a reality check the better of we all will be.

You might gather I feel quite strongly on this subject. Having taken thousands of pics of my own kids and their friends as they grew up and now enjoying taking pics of my grandkids I really object to these damned do-gooders with their righteous attitudes - and don't even get me started on social workers!!

Rant over now I feel sooooooo much better!
 
Social workers are something else - if they only did the actual job they were paid for perhaps there would be less of this P**** mania
 
Rob.Marsh said:
Being all defensive, putting barriers up and shouting about our rights will not help our reputation. Softly softly has got to be the best approach here. Talk to those who have reservations, explain yourself. If they still has problems, walk away. No shot (in my opinion) is worth the greif of both you and the subject/subject relations.
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mid_gen said:
I'd also delete pictures of children if asked by the parents. However much I know my rights, it's common courtesy.
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hodgy77 said:
More recently though I've become more confident and have started taking photos in these sort of places, I just make sure that she is the main focus, if there are any other children nearby then I point the camera down and then re-compose when they've gone. Daft and paranoid maybe but not worth a parent bopping me on the nose and asking questions later!
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I agree with the above. I'd delete pictures of anyone if they asked. It's just polite. I wouldn't be hugely comfortable with someone else taking pictures of me so I'd like to extend the same courtesy to others that if they came up to me and asked me (nicely) to see or delete them I probably would. There's no point in antagonising people. If someone's upset it doesn't mean they're stupid or uneducated; perhaps they're just self-conscious. And if they've got up the courage to come and ask you about the photos of them, and you refuse to let them see or to delete them, you could make them really unhappy. I personally hate confrontations so if I were the person being photographed and this ("this" = a rude refusal) happened (admittedly, being a phtographer myself, I wouldn't be likely to ask someone to delete their photos in the first place) it could really ruin my day. I'd hate to do that to somebody else.
 
I should add that I wouldn't attack someone taking photos and I certainly wouldn't say (or think) they were a paedophile. I just think that people should show some common courtesy. Simple things like not taking more than a couple of pictures of the same person, or striking up a conversation with a worried mother, could ease a lot of tensions I think. And no, it won't work on everyone, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't try. I'm not sure how being defensive from the outset would help.
 
ROFL2K9 said:
It's not just photography but life in general. 'People' have just become so mind-numbingly soft over the last couple of decades. The politically correct and the 'you can't say that' brigade have taken over the asylum :bat:
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Oh how I agree with you... its a crazy world.:shrug::shrug:
 
RIGHT EVERYBODY STOP WHAT YOUR DOING!!!

have you seen what these ignorant stupid mothers are doing to us? there turning us against each other, i think its stupid with the mollycuddled children, im 15 and no way have i been mollycuddled ive had my own way because my mom says if you limit someone then theyll do it even more. my mom said i can smoke if i want becuase if she said "i dont want you smoking" then i would do it anyway to see whats wrong with it.

the point im trying to make is that the mothers (and fathers in some cases) must learn that cameras are all around, google earth, CCTV, tourists etc. just because some person in a room full of CCTV monitors wears an official badge doesnt stop him from doing the dirty.

thank you for listen to my rant.
 
Then to throw another thought into the mix, why as tog's out in the open taking shots do we catch all the grief. When the majority of attacks, be it physical or sexual are generally family members or family freinds!!!!!
 
I went to help out as a parent on a nursery school trip last Friday and I was asked as were the other parent helpers to 'take our camera's' I was rather taken back by this as I thought we wern't allowed to photograph children in schools anymore!

Anyway all I did was give the nursery a copy of all the pics I took as did all the other parents

I have thought about getting police checked before I set up doing portraits of children but I have to ask

WHAT IS THIS WORLD COMING TO????????????????????????:(
 
Geordi69 said:
Then to throw another thought into the mix, why as tog's out in the open taking shots do we catch all the grief. When the majority of attacks, be it physical or sexual are generally family members or family freinds!!!!!
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I think this is true.

Only vaguely related but this reminded me of something we were told a few years ago when my wife qualified as a child minder.

It was on the subject of children getting meningitis, we were told that more children are killed by their own parents than by the disease.

This came as quite a surprise to me.



Steve.
 
mastertrinity said:
RIGHT EVERYBODY STOP WHAT YOUR DOING!!!


the point im trying to make is that the mothers (and fathers in some cases) must learn that cameras are all around, google earth, CCTV, tourists etc. just because some person in a room full of CCTV monitors wears an official badge doesnt stop him from doing the dirty.


I have just recently discovered, but only through a friend that my mugshot was seen on Google Earth and I wasn't aware at all
Instead of pin pointing photographers people want to look at the bigger picture in my opinion - there are likely to be more pervs on Looking on Google earth at kiddie pics than that there are photographers photographing children at events!!:shake: What s this world coming to?? I ask you??
It makes me so mad that photographers are pin pointed for this type of thing:bang:

LOOK AT THE BIGGER PICTURE PEOPLE!!!
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richpips said:
Here you go.

Check the face on this one.

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Firstly & totally off the point, but I think this photo is a delight & the mum's face makes it - best candid I've seen for a long time!

I quite enjoy taking candid photos myself which makes me then question why I would feel uncomfortable if someone just like me with a long lens pointed it at my children. I guess I take candids of adults I think have attractive or interesting faces, or are somehow central to an interesting scene - it wouldn't occur to me to take photos of children at all unless they were my friend's children, or happen to be in a shot focussed on my own kids.

If I saw someone deliberately singling out my son / daughter for a photo I would be suspicious of why they would want such a photo, but equally I don't see what even a dedicated pervert would gain from a straightforward picture such as this one.

I think paranoia is central to the mindset of parents today, me included.

With photography in public does wind me up when having a decent camera seems to make you the subject of suspicion (such as a policeman who told me to stop taking photos for 'anti-terrorist' reasons). Practically everyone with a mobile has a camera with them at all times, and surely you'd be using that discretely if you were up to no good, rather than marching down the street with a 5D / grip & big white 70-200!!

Phil
 
mastertrinity said:
is it true that you have to have a a license when doing childrens portraits in a studio for example.
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No totall false, we shoot children in the studio several times a week, but we always have a parent present, and a female member of staff as chaperone (just in case) it's for our protection as much as the childs.

As somebody else said most sexual assults on children are by a close family member, yet people glare at photographers not uncles or cousins, and it these people who are taking the "dodgy" pics 99% of the time I suspect. Wayne
 
mastertrinity said:
is it true that you have to have a a license when doing childrens portraits in a studio for example.
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From what I remember (correct me if I'm wrong), if you are going to use it for your own work (artwork, modelling etc) then you have to obtain permission. I am not sure about the portraits that you are doing for them as the parents are usually present.
 
The only paranoia i can see is from photographers in this thread.. you see her face on that picture.. you have no idea what she is thinking.. but you have a 5 page thread where you are all up in arms because you have decided she is calling you a pedophile or a pervert or whatever.. then to top it all you use a public forum to insult the women.

Quite disgusted to be honest...
 
Some of you are now throwing personal insults at someone on a public forum.

Is this something that all subjects of candid pictures should expect?

Well out of order.
 
KIPAX said:
The only paranoia i can see is from photographers in this thread.. you see her face on that picture.. you have no idea what she is thinking.. but you have a 5 page thread where you are all up in arms because you have decided she is calling you a pedophile or a pervert or whatever.. then to top it all you use a public forum to insult the women.

Quite disgusted to be honest...
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Abs agree!
 
KIPAX said:
The only paranoia i can see is from photographers in this thread.. you see her face on that picture.. you have no idea what she is thinking.. but you have a 5 page thread where you are all up in arms because you have decided she is calling you a pedophile or a pervert or whatever.. then to top it all you use a public forum to insult the women.

Quite disgusted to be honest...
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Despite my earlier protestations to the contrary, I have to agree with this. I still don't like the insinuation that as an adult male with a camera, we somehow have to justify ourselves, but equally, I feel the quasi-personal attacks made on the lady in the picture are in very poor taste, and completely uncalled for.
 
One post removed already, please don't make us remove any others. Remember this is a public forum. It is possible for anyone to read your posts and making insulting comments about anyone is not on and could easily come back to bite you on the ass!
 
Zuba said:
I have to say I wouldn't like random people taking pictures of my child, is it that hard to ask for consent, explain what you are doing before hand? I think if they were in a performance or a display or dressed up for something then I would be more lenient however if I am out and about with my child and we are relaxing and doing normal stuff and someone started taking pics I'd be quite angry about it. In fact they catch me on the wrong day of the month they'd be liable to have a camera rammed somewhere unpleasant ;) How do we as parents know which photographers are the good ones and which are perverts? The fact is we dont know and no pervert is going to confess they are so we have to assume that, unless you ask us and explain why you want a few pics, you could be using our childrens pictures in anyway imaginable and it doesn't necessarily have to be in a perverted way, you could do anything at all with the pictures on your cameras and we will never know what has been done.

My child is the most precious thing in the world to me and I will protect him in any way imaginable and if that makes me a b*tch or an idiot or whatever else you have in mind then so be it.
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See this is where I have an issue - you're assuming I'm doing something wrong because I'm a bloke with a camera. I'm not and you don't have to assume I am.

Just for the record I don't take pictures of other peoples children unless I'm being paid to do it, but equally I will not stop taking photos of a scene or of my daughter because it makes other people defensive (ETA or your child happens to be in frame) Protecting your chldren is the most natural thing in the world, but one of the problems in society now days is there seems to be a monster round every conrner. That's not the case and the sooner people react less like there is the better.

Hugh
 
Zuba said:
How do we as parents know which photographers are the good ones and which are perverts?
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:wacky: Why assume any photographer is a pervert. How do we as photographers know which parents are the good ones or the child abusers. I don't think any part of your statement has added anything worth discussing to this thread.
 
Zuba said:
How do we as parents know which photographers are the good ones and which are perverts?
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you don't, but you need to apply some logical thought to it.

How many people you pass when you walk down the street are murderers who plan to kill you? Well, it's been none so far. Assuming all photographers might be perverts is the sdame as assuming that everyone you see in public is likely to be a murderer or a rapist or a burglar just because you don't know for sure that they are not.

The percentage of photographers who are actually perverts is so miniscule as to be irrelevant.

Even if someone does take a photograph of, for instance, one of my children and uses it for whatever purpose he wants (though I can't really think of one). So what? I don't know about it and it doesn't harm my child. I can't think of a way that a photograph taken of one of my children when out in public could be:

1. Of any interest to a pevert;
2. Possible to cause any harm.


EDIT: I'm not trying to justify perverted behaviour here, I'm just trying to post an opposite view to the usual paranoa.



Steve.
 
Zuba said:
I have to say I wouldn't like random people taking pictures of my child, is it that hard to ask for consent, explain what you are doing before hand? I think if they were in a performance or a display or dressed up for something then I would be more lenient however if I am out and about with my child and we are relaxing and doing normal stuff and someone started taking pics I'd be quite angry about it. In fact they catch me on the wrong day of the month they'd be liable to have a camera rammed somewhere unpleasant ;) How do we as parents know which photographers are the good ones and which are perverts? The fact is we dont know and no pervert is going to confess they are so we have to assume that, unless you ask us and explain why you want a few pics, you could be using our childrens pictures in anyway imaginable and it doesn't necessarily have to be in a perverted way, you could do anything at all with the pictures on your cameras and we will never know what has been done.

My child is the most precious thing in the world to me and I will protect him in any way imaginable and if that makes me a b*tch or an idiot or whatever else you have in mind then so be it.
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It's this kind of blanket view that taking a photo of a child is in someway attacking them that I just don't get...

Two scenarios -

1. You are in the park with your kid, and you've just bought them a huge bunch of balloons. You're kids face is a picture of excitement, and some passing tog happens to take a picture of the excited kid with the balloons and then walks on.

2. You are in the park with your kid and this tog with a camera takes a picture of your kid playing on the slide. You decide to move on some distance, the but tog follows you and takes another picture, seemings focussing on your kid.

With my kids, I would have no problem with 1, although they're all a bit big now to be playing with balloons now, but 2 would annoy me and I would have words (words, not fists).
 
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