What no jeremy cobyn thread?

dejongj said:
Sure ministers can do that, how do they do that as shareholders. How have they've done that.
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There are many ways a majority shareholder can influence a board. The most transparent of which is through board members themselves.
To pick a name at random how about RBS Group Board member Baroness Noakes, a former Conservative Shadow Treasury Minister.

And if you don't think the Treasury are pulling the strings, cast your mind back to last September...
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-29185319

dejongj said:
So why wouldn't you want to get in if this is so easy to make money on. If it is such a sure fire bet then why not?
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Because these share dumps on the market are done en masse to hedge funds, not by general subscription to the public. It saves on a lot of admin, but means the seller gets to choose who benefits from a below-market price listing.

dejongj said:
It sounds like by all the doubts being raised here that nobody thinks he will not should follow the German model for nationalisation.
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It sounds a lot like that if you put words in random order, yes ;)
 
Is it me, or does Corbyn stand out head and shoulders above most other politicians in the limelight (not least Mrs Balls, the other Blairite lady and Andy Burnham) in being considered, straightforwards and having some conviction, rather than just swaying whichever way public feeling is judged to be heading? Integrity is the word which comes to mind, in the same way it does whenever I see John Major interviewed, or David Davies.
 
The sad thing is if he wins, the party rather than just get on with it, will make things very differcult. If its going to be a car crash its because of the bickering not his policies.

I find it a very good look at how things really work. The party and the press telling us what to think. Amazingly some people are thinking for themselves. The beauty of the young vote is they don't buy papers so can not be influenced as much.
 
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rjbell said:
The sad thing is if he wins, the party rather than just get on with it, will make things very differcult. If its going to be a car crash its because of the bickering not his policie.

I find it a very good look at how things really work. The party and the press telling us what to think. Amazingly some people are thinking for themselves. The beauty of the young vote is they don't by papers so can not be influenced as much.
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It's not even the media, the party seems to be wanting a certain leader who is at odds with what the members (and voters?) want.

I agree it could fail because of the bickering. What would be interesting is to gauge Corbyns reaction to that, and how he will deal with that from a leadership perspective. If he does that well, and I can't help but think about the interview discussed earlier, then he could be the next PM.
 
rjbell said:
The sad thing is if he wins, the party rather than just get on with it, will make things very differcult. If its going to be a car crash its because of the bickering not his policies.

I find it a very good look at how things really work. The party and the press telling us what to think. Amazingly some people are thinking for themselves. The beauty of the young vote is they don't buy papers so can not be influenced as much.
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I think until Thatcher won her second General Election in '83, she was on very dodgy ground with the party apparatchik and was never properly trusted by The Establishment sort - Old Etonians, the manage our decline without hurting the rich too severely type, the Tory Wets. Don't forget she was disposed of by her own party - not the electorate - after the "No, No, No" response to three questions about increasing European powers.

Should Corbyn bring home a victory in 2020, even if it's in coalition with the SNP, he'd appear to be the darling of the Party but would have one hell of a job changing the established powers into ones which didn't attempt to see his demise. Blairites are in every powerful establishment, and in the top jobs.
 
Oh please not a coalition with the SNP. Man you are giving me nightmares. Better stay in EU until then so we can move to Bulgaria or Greece.
 
Doing a deal with Nicola is about the only way the Labour Party have a hope in hell of being in power, for as long as the Scots reckon England is making a mess of things. Amazing to think not so long ago, the Scots voted Tory in huge numbers.
 
RufusG said:
Doing a deal with Nicola is about the only way the Labour Party have a hope in hell of being in power, for as long as the Scots reckon England is making a mess of things. Amazing to think not so long ago, the Scots voted Tory in huge numbers.
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As we kept saying prior to the election, Labour had no need to make any pact with the SNP. The SNP would naturally vote with even a Minority labour government. They'd only not do so if Labour tried to move too far to the right, and if that's what they wanted to do, then the SNP wouldn't want to be in a coalition anyway.

It was a right wing media fairytale that was completely counter intuitive, but that doesn't stop people swallowing it.
 
RufusG said:
Is it me, or does Corbyn stand out head and shoulders above most other politicians in the limelight (not least Mrs Balls, the other Blairite lady and Andy Burnham) in being considered, straightforwards and having some conviction, rather than just swaying whichever way public feeling is judged to be heading? Integrity is the word which comes to mind, in the same way it does whenever I see John Major interviewed, or David Davies.
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Depends on what you want your party to do. If you want to be in power then you need to follow public opinion, if you don't you won't get elected. I would argue that a party leaders job is to get elected.
 
cambsno said:
Depends on what you want your party to do. If you want to be in power then you need to follow public opinion, if you don't you won't get elected. I would argue that a party leaders job is to get elected.
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I agree, that is the primary objective of the job. But surely by standing what the party stands for, not merely what the majority of the electorate wants? I mean that would mean giving up on your principles, heck currently that would mean Labour has to out Tory at being the Conservatives. But then what is the point of that?
 
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dejongj said:
I agree, that is the primary objective of the job. But surely by standing what the party stands for, not merely what the majority of the electorate wants? I mean that would mean giving up on your principles, heck currently that would mean Labour has to our Tory the Conservatives. But then what is the point of that?
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This...
And then there's the other side of it, to the left of all the labour voters at the last election there could be a huge number of people in England and Wales who were turned off by the choice of 4 Tory parties to choose from? Like the ones that were discovered in Scotland?

I'm not suggesting that this is true, or that there'll be a huge swing to the left, but the right wing media have been manipulating politics for a long time here and it's interesting to see that actual left wing politics isn't the dead horse many had been led to believe.

But we have to accept that Corbyn being unelectable is only one side of the coin, there's also a chance he could harness some untapped electoral potential. It's not just the SNP, Obama did this too, so it's not just theoretical, and it's not ancient history either.
 
Do the majority of the electorate even vote left or right. Are they not voting for policies they like?

Labour lost huge amount of working class vote to ukip that they need back. Did the working class vote right or vote the policies that's were clear as a bell.
 
I think he can. From listening around me for support and ideology. From see how loud the nay sayers are. I think there is a pretty good chance.

It will be good seeing some proper opposition and passion.
 
rjbell said:
Do the majority of the electorate even vote left or right. Are they not voting for policies they like?

Labour lost huge amount of working class vote to ukip that they need back. Did the working class vote right or vote the policies that's were clear as a bell.
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I think you got a point. In the last election it was just not clear what they were voting on when voting labour. To me it was just all too negative too anti Tory too anti austerity and too me no credible story on what it actually was that they were for and that was realistically affordable and could be believed.

And Ed just doesn't help the situation either, it shouldn't make a difference, but t does.
 
Llamaman said:
But they had a big stone!
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It made me weep!
No one understood the point of the stone. Because the Labour media machine was either appalling or hamstrung.

It was an answer to Cameron's 'No if's No But's' broken promises. The electorate don't seem to care that we elected a prime minister on those promises and he failed to deliver on any of them. And Labour managed to turn that gift into a joke on themselves? It was like something from The Thick of It.

And they still got accused of running a negative campaign?

The truth of course is that they failed to run a positive campaign.
 
To be fair to the Conservatives, they've realized they can't trust themselves to deliver on their promises, so have now enacted a law preventing them changing key tax rates during this parliament. Possibly the stupidest law on the statute books.

Truth really is stranger than fiction.
 
Llamaman said:
But they had a big stone!
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Phil V said:
It made me weep!
No one understood the point of the stone. Because the Labour media machine was either appalling or hamstrung.

It was an answer to Cameron's 'No if's No But's' broken promises. The electorate don't seem to care that we elected a prime minister on those promises and he failed to deliver on any of them. And Labour managed to turn that gift into a joke on themselves? It was like something from The Thick of It.

And they still got accused of running a negative campaign?

The truth of course is that they failed to run a positive campaign.
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What is all this talk about stones? I know of stones in context of unit of measurement, something that you give to a girl, as irritating objects on a UK beach, etc. but I've never heard of it in political context.
 
rjbell said:
Do the majority of the electorate even vote left or right. Are they not voting for policies they like?

Labour lost huge amount of working class vote to ukip that they need back. Did the working class vote right or vote the policies that's were clear as a bell.
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There are a lot of people who will only ever vote Labour or would only vote Tory, my mate is one, would never ever vote Tory - principle!

Politics is a lot more centreground these days... and that must be due to the electorate. In the 70s it appeared to be very much left vs right, but Blair realised that Labour needed to modernise to win and did so. The tories, stuck with the 'stigma' of thatcherism, saw that they too had to move more to the centre to win seats. This also explains partly the rise of the more extreme or 1 policy parties.

The campaigns from all sides was poor pre election, more about what the other won't do rather than what we will do. Labour failed miserably on that and had an awful leader.
 
dejongj said:
What is all this talk about stones? I know of stones in context of unit of measurement, something that you give to a girl, as irritating objects on a UK beach, etc. but I've never heard of it in political context.
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Ed's gimmick for the last election was to make a big stone with his promises set out on it. They were set in stone. For whatever reason, probably the ones Phil's outlined it fell somewhat flat http://www.independent.co.uk/news/p...-stone-reaches-dingy-conclusion-10249330.html
 
cambsno said:
The campaigns from all sides was poor pre election
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I agree, I thought all the parties ran a very negative campaign with a lot of scaremongering and finger-pointing. Nothing aspirational or inspiring on offer from any of them. Not a great advert for democracy.
 
dejongj said:
Hmmmm a coup on day one if Corbyn is elected...


http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknew...er-labour-mp-warns/ar-BBlGdzc?ocid=spartandhp

Sorry but I have not other words for Simon Danczuk than what an arrogant d******d to ignore the wishes of his own electorate ....
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Exactly so! I really do think that the Labour party hierarchy are running scared. The party itself decided the current voting system in 2014 (I think) and now it seems that the other 3 candidates don't like it, funny that...
I wonder if they'd be complaining if it were one of them way out in the lead?
 
Or it is all a big ploy to get him even more votes, the British public like an underdog :) It is funny, I wouldn't vote (not that I am allowed to anyway) but stuff like that makes me want to vote for the guy, and represents across parties to be honest exactly what is wrong.
 
Ken Livingstone said this week that Blair used to screen all up and coming party members and reject the ones he thought were too left. This is how new labour democracy works.
 
It seems like the negative attitude of Danczuk sums up everything wrong with Labour at the mo. If he is elected leader then why not respect the wishes of your party and get on being a decent opposition instead of allowing the Tories to run rampant
 
Maybe we need a TP Independent coalition :)
 
And it is the same old same old. Why not focus on positive messages of how good alternative candidates are instead of reiterating the message of how bad this choice would be.

Is it just me, or would people rather hear why to vote for someone opposed to this constant why not to vote for someone.
 
Rumours rumbling on twitter that Gordon Brown's about to wade in against corbyn too.
 
dejongj said:
And it is the same old same old. Why not focus on positive messages of how good alternative candidates are instead of reiterating the message of how bad this choice would be.

Is it just me, or would people rather hear why to vote for someone opposed to this constant why not to vote for someone.
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I wish. It'd be nice to hear anything from the other candidates. Positive about what they aim to achieve seems too much to hope for. A mature debate seems very unlikely. Much as I'd love to see it
 
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