A 50mm lens at f/1.8 on your body at 25' away would give you 2.86' behind and 2.32' in front of your focus point so bit of scope for both dog and owner. You could then crop in to present a reasonable shot..........................
FYI there is a software package called OpticsPro 10 Elite that offers the best noise reduction possible via software so should enable you to get the best out of your equipment without spending £££ upgrading both body and lenses. Free 30 day trial so worth a punt. Shoot in raw for best results!!
@Ady N don't know if I am doing it wrong, but I tried this software, and it didn't help with the photo of the black pug.. it just lightened it, and that made the noise look worse.
View attachment 51977 View attachment 51978
If you use the 'prime' NR option it works 'magic'. I have compared to workflows through LR or Bridge and it is a fantastic pre-processing tool. I would spend a bit of time with it and do some comparisons - I did and nothing touched it.
This^Ok, you cant afford a significantly better ISO camera, but presumably you are not shooting these events daily.
Hire or borrow a camera known for good ISO the day before (to practice) and on the day of the show or look at secondhand. It will transform your shots as the ISO will cope so much better than your current offering.
Don't use +2 exposure compensation unless you have a very bright background. From the example shot it seems like you have a mixed background and this will vary considerably depending on which focus mechanism you are using. Stick everything in manual, set the ISO as high as you would be happy with, open up the aperture as much as possible, then close it down a stop, use the exposure metre to see what shutter speed you are working with. If it's not fast enough, consider investing in a monopod and try to work with the low speeds (try to make use of motion blur, try panning etc.) and learn to time your shots accordingly. A longer prime would be useful here if you have the budget, but you make do with what you've got....Right I am getting really fed up now, where am I going wrong ?
I was recently shooting indoors... where I cannot use flash.
It was floodlit, and not dark by any means, but because of animals involved I was not allowed to use flash
- I had my ISO on my 40d as high as it goes (H) ....
- I had +2 exposure comp
- Slowest shutter speed I could manage in the circumstances (1/80 - 1/100)
- And my lens on the lowest aperture it would go (3.5 on my 18-55 and between 1.8-2.8 on my nifty fifty)
So as far as I can tell I am doing everything I can.... but still my images are SO soft and noisy it's driving me mad.
The noise doesn't make me as mad as how soft everything is ! ! !
Grrrr...if I could just get this right I would be so much happier
I think at least a move to full frame, one of the better ISO handling crop bodies is the D7200 and it can't compete with the 6D. But then the 6D is quite a way off the D750 and not only in ISO.The other option is to work within the limitations of your kit and develop your technique with regard to WHEN to take the shots so you can use the 50mm and get both owner and dog in focus.
I have a friend who shows and judges whippets to a high level and all of the photos I ever see are of them static - very rarely do they have pictures of them being led around. This might just have to be something you accept until you can afford a better camera (and to be honest and as Phil says, this will likely mean a move away from Canon).
I queried the +2 exp comp too until I saw that she was shooting a black pug, I would use +ve exp comp for this too unless I was spot metering from the dog.Don't use +2 exposure compensation unless you have a very bright background. From the example shot it seems like you have a mixed background and this will vary considerably depending on which focus mechanism you are using. Stick everything in manual, set the ISO as high as you would be happy with, open up the aperture as much as possible, then close it down a stop, use the exposure metre to see what shutter speed you are working with. If it's not fast enough, consider investing in a monopod and try to work with the low speeds (try to make use of motion blur, try panning etc.) and learn to time your shots accordingly. A longer prime would be useful here if you have the budget, but you make do with what you've got....
The first bit of this^The other option is to work within the limitations of your kit and develop your technique with regard to WHEN to take the shots so you can use the 50mm and get both owner and dog in focus.
I have a friend who shows and judges whippets to a high level and all of the photos I ever see are of them static - very rarely do they have pictures of them being led around. This might just have to be something you accept until you can afford a better camera (and to be honest and as Phil says, this will likely mean a move away from Canon).
I kind of agree, but if you are wanting a specific shot and nothing else will so sometimes equipment can't provide you with what you need. So whilst I think the OP can work around this with the compromises already mentioned, if they aren't prepared to make these compromises then their only options are less than top quality images, or upgrade to FF.The first bit of this^
There are always images I wish I could take, but if I can't do it to the required std, that's just tough luck and I concentrate on getting the best of what I can.
Imagination and planning are more important than gear.
The only time the above gets overturned, is when there's a brief set from a 3rd party.
Personally I'd take these noise/ISO comparisons with a slight pinch of salt.
Of course, you should always take these results into context. But if you read the article on DP alongside this you would see that the 50D is still behind.Personally I'd take these noise/ISO comparisons with a slight pinch of salt.
Noise comparisons are normally made at 100% magnification. But in this instance you're comparing a 15MP camera with a 10MP camera, and that introduces a complication.
I don't think it would be unreasonable to compare the noise with images from both cameras downsampled to the same final size, such as 2MP for on-screen display or 8MP for a 12"x8" print. That would give the advantage to the 50D, because its images would have to be downsampled to a greater extent and that would reduce the noise. But I don't know how much by, and I'm not aware of any places where such comparisons are carried out and reported upon.
My concern is that if this is the setting for all the shots, is likely adding to the issues of low light conditions rather than helping with them. As you say, it all depends on your metering mode (and from which point it was metered - if metered from the dog you would use -ve exp comp anyway) but I am not sure what it has been set to here (apologies I described it as "focus mechanism" in my original comment, but it is the exposure mode we are interested in).. The main issues are around available light, sharpness and focus as far as I can tell, so lets take exposure compensation out of the equation for the time being.I queried the +2 exp comp too until I saw that she was shooting a black pug, I would use +ve exp comp for this too unless I was spot metering from the dog.
Yep, +ve exposure comp will result in higher ISO and/or slower shutter.My concern is that if this is the setting for all the shots, is likely adding to the issues of low light conditions rather than helping with them. As you say, it all depends on your metering mode (and from which point it was metered - if metered from the dog you would use -ve exp comp anyway) but I am not sure what it has been set to here (apologies I described it as "focus mechanism" in my original comment, but it is the exposure mode we are interested in).. The main issues are around available light, sharpness and focus as far as I can tell, so lets take exposure compensation out of the equation for the time being.
Yep, +ve exposure comp will result in higher ISO and/or slower shutter.
- I had my ISO on my 40d as high as it goes (H) ....
- I had +2 exposure comp
- Slowest shutter speed I could manage in the circumstances (1/80 - 1/100)
- And my lens on the lowest aperture it would go (3.5 on my 18-55 and between 1.8-2.8 on my nifty fifty)
Err, that's what I said wasn't it?Yep, but looking at the original stated settings...
It can only reduce the shutter speed (unless it performs some other kind of technical wizardry I'm unaware of).
AlmostErr, that's what I said wasn't it?
It has been mentioned already, but only a tiny bit,Yes, but the nifty fifty has the DOF issue... yes shooting at 1.8 means I have a slightly better image overall.. but half of the image is blur/gone because of DOF.
Right I am getting really fed up now, where am I going wrong ?
I was recently shooting indoors... where I cannot use flash.
It was floodlit, and not dark by any means, but because of animals involved I was not allowed to use flash
- I had my ISO on my 40d as high as it goes (H) ....
-- which is seriously risking motion blur and camera shake softening.[*]I had +2 exposure comp
[*]Slowest shutter speed I could manage in the circumstances (1/80 - 1/100)
[*]And my lens on the lowest aperture it would go (3.5 on my 18-55 and between 1.8-2.8 on my nifty fifty)
So as far as I can tell I am doing everything I can.... but still my images are SO soft and noisy it's driving me mad.
Buy a 5d1. Dirt cheap and much better high ISO than your 40D.
Buy a 5d1. Dirt cheap and much better high ISO than your 40D.
+1
declaration of interest here - I have a 5D I know subsequent versions improved each time, but the original is still pretty good.
Also, whilst it is probably forbidden to use a tripod in the environment you are working in, have you considered a monopod? I use one and can vouch for the significant improvement in crispness of shots at lower shutter speeds and the monopod is very flexible in use.
Just a thought...
Anthony.
What's your budget, have a look at the 70d I have seen them for under £500 sold on eBay but that could be way off your £s...
http://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Comp...on-EOS-60D-versus-Canon-EOS-50D___895_663_272
One technique I use often when shooting with a low shutter speed is something a bit counter intuitive.
Most people think slow shutter speed means one shot at a time.
Well I use the high fps feature which on your 40d is 6.5 or 3 fps.
This at least in combination with AI focus will give you a better chance at keepers.
Try it I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.
also posted in my "suggest an upgrade thread"
https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/threads/suggest-a-upgrade-canon-40d.609822/page-5
At this point I am really hoping that I might be making some mistakes in my shooting, facing the skyrocketing costs of replacing my gear
This was shot handheld, so could hopefully improve with the addition of a monopod (that @Terrywoodenpic has kindly offered me)
[..]
t
It's the angle not the vicinity, you can get to their eye level at 300mm if you like.They more or less fill the frame at this distance with the 50mm ... If I got closer to them all I'd be able to do is very close ups X
I'm considering 28mm 2.8
It's the angle not the vicinity, you can get to their eye level at 300mm if you like.
The 50mm is fine for this, however, as above I'd have put the dog in some light, rather than just shooting it where it lay, and it's underexposed, you'd really have wanted 2/3 to a stop of +exp comp
I'm aware of the 'advice' you received re exp,comp, my older Canons are always set on 1/3 or 2/3 plus comp before I even look through the vf. I adjust to taste after I've seen the scene.As I said wasn't meant to be a masterpiece
I do usually add a stop of EV comp when I shoot , but someone on this thread or the other had said it can make noise worse and not actually help... So I didn't add it this time