Why do companies rip off UK customers?

Mr Badger said:
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As you say, it's their choice, I just hope they don't choose to moan if the NHS fails the expectations of them or their relatives, or their kids don't get the quality of education they expect for them, or they have to work another year before they can retire and claim the state pension. I know this might seem overly simplistic, but I doubt anyone likes drinking with someone who doesn't get a round in when it's their 'shout'?
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A year or 2 ago I read a report that stated if the ‘cash economy’ was taxed and had NI paid on it the basic rate of income tax would be 10%. As I remember that report didn’t cover things like lack of duty on smuggled fags etc, it just dealt with builders etc being paid in cash. Yes what I suggested is illegal and deprives the govt of revenue, but the Govt already takes things like this into account when setting the budget etc. You will never stamp out the cash Economy. Work in that economy, smuggle in cameras etc and you take the risk. That is your choice....
 
Eloise said:
I know what your post #70 says... but just because you say “I’m not suggesting you break the law” doesn’t mean that your posts this evening haven’t been (IMO) doing just that. If you weren’t suggesting people broke the law, your first post would have acknowledged that what you were suggesting was illegal.

Your whole post was based on the premis that you may as well fly to NY, buy a camera and bring it back through LHR because no one will catch you.
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Yup, exactly that. The saving on the price of the camera would pay for the air ticket and a hotel for 2 nights. My post was a comparasion of the pricing and a demonstration on how you could get the saving to pay for a trip to New York as an example if you were happy to break the law by not declaring the camera on return to the UK.
 
Andrew Smith said:
Doing what I suggested is very much breaking the law but people do it every day.
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Just for some context and “facts” (though I use the term loosely as these figures came from a 2014 Daily Mail article)...

“The goods most frequently smuggled by UK holidaymakers include cigarettes and alcohol, but other concealed items goods include perfume - there is a limit to the amount of tax-free perfume that can be brought into the UK - drugs, food, weapons and even live animals.

“Nearly one in two holidaymakers (46 per cent) admitted to smuggling in cigarettes, 29 per cent alcohol, 15 per cent perfume and aftershave and 13 per cent electronic gadgets.

“Three in four holidaymakers walked through customs unchallenged the last time they were carrying contraband and the research found that older travellers are more likely to go unchallenged than youngsters.”​

PS. I apparently look dodgy as I did get stopped driving through Dover customs once years back.
 
Andrew, why not cut out the middle man and just run out of Jessops with the goods? Same principle, and about the same chance of getting caught.

Don't think you'll never get stopped at customs. It happened to me and I was threatened with confiscation, hefty fine, criminal record etc etc. Actually the penalties for smuggling are pretty scary :eek: Luckily, I was innocent and all goods legit, but it was a very unpleasant few hours very early on a Sunday morning and my boss didn't appreciate being called at 5am to back me up. You run the same risk every time you bring the goods back into Britain and don't expect to be let off with a slap on the wrist and payment of outstanding tax/duty.
 
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Andrew Smith said:
A year or 2 ago I read a report that stated if the ‘cash economy’ was taxed and had NI paid on it the basic rate of income tax would be 10%. As I remember that report didn’t cover things like lack of duty on smuggled fags etc, it just dealt with builders etc being paid in cash. Yes what I suggested is illegal and deprives the govt of revenue, but the Govt already takes things like this into account when setting the budget etc. You will never stamp out the cash Economy. Work in that economy, smuggle in cameras etc and you take the risk. That is your choice....
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A bit like shoplifting? Or scamming? Or mugging? Or violent house-breaking? Or organised crime demanding money by menaces, armed robbery, or hostage taking? At what point does 'illegal' become 'socially unacceptable'? Is it only when it directly affects the individual complaining about it?

I know it's difficult to argue against someone hypothetically taking 'the moral high ground' to a ridiculous conclusion, but I really do believe that people should think long and hard about the morality of evading paying their fair share. As I said in post #18, it might seem as though we're paying more, but taken in context with what we get for our tax contributions such as the NHS, children's education, and the general standard of living we get in the UK, then I don't think we can moan too much?
 
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Andrew Smith said:
Yup, exactly that. The saving on the price of the camera would pay for the air ticket and a hotel for 2 nights. My post was a comparasion of the pricing and a demonstration on how you could get the saving to pay for a trip to New York as an example if you were happy to break the law by not declaring the camera on return to the UK.
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You insist on wanting the last word on advising people how to break the law. Probably because financial crime "appears" to be victimless it is ok to offer that advice. So, would you offer advice on drink driving and not getting caught, child pornography sites and other ugly practices? The point you insist on missing is that you advice people to do some crime because in your eyes it is victimless, and what people are saying to you is "do what you like and do not boast about it" and the boasting is about advising others to do it too.
 
megaweb said:
I was interested in buying a newly released Sigma 16mm f1.4 e-mount lens, and saw it was $449 in the US, which I thought was fair. The same lens is now for sale in the UK for £449. Thats £130 more expensive! Its cheaper to buy from the US and have it shipped over. Is it just greed?
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You think that is bad
I bought a couple of weeks ago a brand new Nikon D810 for £1609 including being delivered to my door. A couple of companies are selling the same model a Nikon D810 for £2699. That is a £1000 markup. Talk about a rip off, and that is not including P/P and postage insurance
 
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realspeed said:
You think that is bad
I bought a couple of weeks ago a brand new Nikon D810 for £1609 including being delivered to my door. A couple of company are selling the same model a Nikon D810 for £2699. That is a £1000 markup. Talk about a rip off
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I'm guessing that came from one of the grey importers who's business model is based on 9 times out of ten, they won't get stopped at customs and have to pay VAT and duty. Not only does buying grey mean your robbing the government of the tax but also a UK business of the sale. UK businesses are not ripping you off, they're just not trading on a level playing field.
 
My hard earned money which I had left after paying earned income tax, so no not robbing the government of anything. Anyone stupid enough to buy from a company charging £1000 more !!! they say fools and their money are easily parted. My money and I will spend it where I like. The government would only waste it anyway
 
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A warning has been given for this post
I was working at the age of 15 and didn't stop until aged 69 I think I have paid my fair share, even taxed on my pension. So back off and let me spend my money where I like. the ones you need to complain about is the foreigners who come here to use our NHS without contribution anything
 
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TLR-330 said:
FOAD.
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I think there are people posting in this thread who need to take a long hard look at themselves :(

BTW.
My Mrs is foreign but I pay a pretty penny for her access to the NHS :D

Generally, IMO the price differences aren't a rip off as often as people think... much of the time it is IMO a simple fact of doing business in the UK.
 
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realspeed said:
I was working at the age of 15 and didn't stop until aged 69 I think I have paid my fair share, even taxed on my pension. So back off and let me spend my money where I like. the ones you need to complain about is the foreigners who come here to use our NHS without contribution anything
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You mean the less than 1% of the yearly NHS budget, as opposed to the 40% of the NHS budget spent on the over 65s?

And no ... you haven't paid your fair share ... if you evade tax you are evading tax. There is no "grey" area or allowance for what you have made in the past.

If you want the moral high ground, then ok buy from foreign supplier (who have sourced cheaper than Nikon UK) and do a personal import, but ensure its declared fully and properly to customs and excise.
 
I worked for the government on mod sites for ten years and after seeing them waste 40,000 on completely unneeded "landscaping" that did absolutely nothing except make an empty field look a little nicer, I`m not keen to give them anything because I know they are the biggest wasters I ever witnessed. I lost count how many brand new landrovers I seen sat in a car park doing nothing all day except make someone important look good.
 
That's a good point. I too worked on gov sites for years and the waste of taxpayers money was epic. I saw new computers taken out of store, unboxed and smashed with hammers before going into the skip, whole rooms being ripped apart and refurnished from the carpet and upwards and panic to spend money on anything... and all so that the dept could show that it'd used up all of its budget and so needed the same or more next year.

But this isn't the same thing a rip off Britain it's a pride and cudos thing with mandarins needing to have a higher budget and not wanting to have a smaller budget than their fellow mandarins.
 
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GTG said:
I worked for the government on mod sites for ten years and after seeing them waste 40,000 on completely unneeded "landscaping" that did absolutely nothing except make an empty field look a little nicer, I`m not keen to give them anything because I know they are the biggest wasters I ever witnessed. I lost count how many brand new landrovers I seen sat in a car park doing nothing all day except make someone important look good.
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Fine. Promise never to use the NHS, never to draw a state pension, never to educate children in state schools, never to complain to the police if you're assaulted or burgled, never to phone 999 if your house is burning down, never to use local libraries, never to use the country's roads or railways, etc etc etc - and then you might have a point. Don't like what the government does? Then do something about it. This is a democracy. But until you do, you're just a hypocrite who is stealing from all the law abiding citizens and trying to justify yourself.
 
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StewartR said:
Fine. Promise never to use the NHS, never to draw a state pension, never to educate children in state schools, never to complain to the police if you're assaulted or burgled, never to phone 999 if your house is burning down, never to use local libraries, never to use the country's roads or railways, etc etc etc - and then you might have a point. Until then you're just a hypocrite who is stealing from all the law abiding citizens.
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Providing NHS does not justify wasting hundreds of millions. It is them who is stealing from me to fund their own nonsense
 
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DemiLion said:
I love that. The bloke that makes a rather vile, xenophobic post gets away scot-free, whilst the complaining response (albeit somewhat strong) merits a suspension.

That's slightly out of balance.
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Doesnt questioning the Mods decision also run the risk of suspension? :)
Matt
 
When you say no one... the only people that could possibly answer are moderators, although I suspect that the answer would be better coming from the site admin.

They've addressed the issue a few times in the past.
 
realspeed said:
I was working at the age of 15 and didn't stop until aged 69 I think I have paid my fair share, even taxed on my pension. So back off and let me spend my money where I like. the ones you need to complain about is the foreigners who come here to use our NHS without contribution anything
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Well said.
 
HoppyUK said:
Andrew, why not cut out the middle man and just run out of Jessops with the goods? Same principle, and about the same chance of getting caught.

Don't think you'll never get stopped at customs. It happened to me and I was threatened with confiscation, hefty fine, criminal record etc etc. Actually the penalties for smuggling are pretty scary :eek: Luckily, I was innocent and all goods legit, but it was a very unpleasant few hours very early on a Sunday morning and my boss didn't appreciate being called at 5am to back me up. You run the same risk every time you bring the goods back into Britain and don't expect to be let off with a slap on the wrist and payment of outstanding tax/duty.
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That would be taking the goods without paying the owner for them. I know some people who have been stopped at airport customs with too much taxable goods and they have been offered the chance to surrender it or pay the duty and a fine for being over the prescribed duty free limits. None of them ever got a criminal record. The internet has turned the world into a single marketplace. I do not condone breaking the law but if an individual chose to do what I have illustrated the price saving pays for a 2 night trip to New York based on current exchange rates. With all the cut backs at HMRC the chances of being stopped at an airport are very slim indeed, many people have brought electronics through without declaring them, many will again in the future. You can’t stop it unless you stop and bag search every passenger at every port of entry.

Be much simpler if Nikon aligned its’ prices globally.
 
DemiLion said:
When you say no one... the only people that could possibly answer are moderators, although I suspect that the answer would be better coming from the site admin.

They've addressed the issue a few times in the past.
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I'm alluding to the point that posts promoting illegal activities (or users advocating illegal things / methods / purchases) are normally deleted by the powers that be.


Therefore, if most people here are to be believed, any post that mentions buying grey imports should be removed as it's concerning an illegal act.

Or are they just p***ed off they didn't save a bundle of cash like others did?


Humans can be like that you know.
 
Andrew Smith said:
That would be taking the goods without paying the owner for them.
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Which is called theft. Where as what you are discussing is called tax evasion!
I know some people who have been stopped at airport customs with too much taxable goods and they have been offered the chance to surrender it or pay the duty and a fine for being over the prescribed duty free limits. None of them ever got a criminal record.
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Sorry ... I thought you said no one ever gets stopped? Doing a small amount of research it appears that avoiding duty is now dealt with under a civil penalty notice rather than criminal action. The point at which you would be faced with criminal proceedings would be if you ignored the penalty notice (and please note IANAL)
The internet has turned the world into a single marketplace. I do not condone breaking the law but if an individual chose to do what I have illustrated the price saving pays for a 2 night trip to New York based on current exchange rates.
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What you write here IS condoning breaking the law.
With all the cut backs at HMRC the chances of being stopped at an airport are very slim indeed, many people have brought electronics through without declaring them, many will again in the future. You can’t stop it unless you stop and bag search every passenger at every port of entry.
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Correct ... but that still doesn't make it right. If there is no one manning the customs desk there is always (or supposed to be) a phone for you to declare the goods. The system does work on an honesty basis somewhat - the fine for bypassing the correct method should be increased perhaps? But really - do that many people bring in more that £390 (around £500) worth of electrical goods?
Be much simpler if Nikon aligned its’ prices globally.
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We do agree on some things ... though to be fair to Nikon their UK - EU - USA prices are (pretty much) aligned when you take into account taxes. It is (or appears to be) that Far East resellers who will cut prices.
 
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It's unfortunate but Capitalism and the modern world dictates that you really are a fool to have principles/morals when it comes to money. Witness footballers earning hundreds of thousands a week, millionaire businessmen paying less tax than a nurse and as said governments and national institutions that are taxpayer funded wasting millions of Pounds. I have never bought either Grey or from abroad but it was never principles that stopped me.
 
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GTG said:
Providing NHS does not justify wasting hundreds of millions. It is them who is stealing from me to fund their own nonsense
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Of course "wasting" can mean so much in this context...
 
GTG said:
I worked for the government on mod sites for ten years and after seeing them waste 40,000 on completely unneeded "landscaping" that did absolutely nothing except make an empty field look a little nicer, I`m not keen to give them anything because I know they are the biggest wasters I ever witnessed. I lost count how many brand new landrovers I seen sat in a car park doing nothing all day except make someone important look good.
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Is this mod sites as in sideburns and loads of mirrors on mopeds?
 
realspeed said:
I was working at the age of 15 and didn't stop until aged 69 I think I have paid my fair share, even taxed on my pension. So back off and let me spend my money where I like. the ones you need to complain about is the foreigners who come here to use our NHS without contribution anything
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Clearly posting an honest opinion to this would get me banned.

The least I’ll say is that every person I’ve ever met with such an opinion was a complete nob head. So, you can have a think about what you’ve revealed to us.
 
Andrew Smith said:
That would be taking the goods without paying the owner for them. I know some people who have been stopped at airport customs with too much taxable goods and they have been offered the chance to surrender it or pay the duty and a fine for being over the prescribed duty free limits. None of them ever got a criminal record. The internet has turned the world into a single marketplace. I do not condone breaking the law but if an individual chose to do what I have illustrated the price saving pays for a 2 night trip to New York based on current exchange rates. With all the cut backs at HMRC the chances of being stopped at an airport are very slim indeed, many people have brought electronics through without declaring them, many will again in the future. You can’t stop it unless you stop and bag search every passenger at every port of entry.

Be much simpler if Nikon aligned its’ prices globally.
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As has been pointed out numerous times, the difference in price between officially imported UK goods and greys is not down to Canikon etc, but the UK government with duty and VAT. Same applies to most other countries and certainly the whole of the EU.

FWIW, I don't take so much of a moral view on the tax evasion aspect, but more a pragmatic one. Basically, if the government and HMRC simply can't be arsed to do anything about it, despite years of pleading from legitimate UK importer and retailer lobby groups and some huge and obvious loopholes that need plugging, then why should I worry? YMMV ;)

However, the sticking point for me is the effect that buying grey has on UK employment and particularly the UK photo trade and local dealers. Buying grey from overseas, 100% of the money goes straight out of the country, but if you buy locally then at least a fair chunk of the cash stays here and we have half a chance of keeping our camera shops open.
 
Andrew Smith said:
Be much simpler if Nikon aligned its’ prices globally.
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A comment that really does show your utter ignorance of the world economy.

Prices vary because

a) National/Regional taxes do.
b) Local manufacturer support varies according to region and price uplifts reflect that.

So what you actually mean is that you want Nikon to adjust their unit cost price to allow for regional fluctuations in order to normalise the global retail price.

Because that's really going to happen.
 
Andrew Smith said:
Be much simpler if Nikon aligned its’ prices globally.
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I think this is possible. We’d need to align wages globally too.

Why should we get a minimum wage, a state pension, free healthcare, occupational pensions and so on, when the people that make the goods we want to be cheaper don’t? And they are paid sums you wouldn’t bother getting out of bed for.
 
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