World Cup 2018

Hopefully this will put an end to people claiming Messi is the greatest player in the world, let alone ever. Yet again he fails to turn up! Argentina are an average team, he is poor. Portugal are an average team, Ronaldo steps up and fights for the win. No contest between the two.
 
Blimey, that was a cynical game wasn't it. The first half saw Croatia piling in with possible red card tackles, and then when they scored it was Argentina who did much the same thing.
Glad to see Luca Modric score a great WC goal though, because he is class.

Oh yes, nearly forgot.

Why did Argentina lose?

Couldn't possibly have anything to do with stupid back passing could it?
 
andy700 said:
Blimey, that was a cynical game wasn't it. The first half saw Croatia piling in with possible red card tackles, and then when they scored it was Argentina who did much the same thing.
Glad to see Luca Modric score a great WC goal though, because he is class.

Oh yes, nearly forgot.

Why did Argentina lose?

Couldn't possibly have anything to do with stupid back passing could it?
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You are joking? What was the defender supposed to do?
 
tijuana taxi said:
How many times do you see a team have an overwhelming possession percentage, but they are losing heavily
The answer is an awful lot, possession is only worthwhile if its got a creative purpose

I remember watching Bayern v Real in the Champions League a couple of years ago
Bayern had something like 70% of the ball, but were 0-4 down, means nothing if its just passing across the pitch in ones own half.
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You're not making any sense. I think you are being blinded by your prejudice.

How many times does a team have overwhelming possession percentage and lose heavily? Not very often. I refer you to my previous post where I listed the European teams that make the most passes. They're mostly all the top teams. That's not a coincidence. Teams that have lots of possession tend to win matches.

Of course there are exceptions - I think Leicester won the league with less than 50% possession, though I haven't checked the data. But surely the basic premise is unarguable. If you do want to argue it, get some data.

The Bayern / Real match you're referring to was the Champions League semi final in 2014. Bayern lost 4-0 at home despite having 69% possession. They also had more shots (19 vs 13) and more corners (9 vs 3). But so what? You seem to be claiming that this one match vindicates your argument, but that's logically unsound.
 
andy700 said:
Why did Argentina lose?

Couldn't possibly have anything to do with stupid back passing could it?
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Oh come on. It wasn't a stupid back pass. It was an absolutely awful mistake by the goalkeeper. Everyone else on the planet can see that.
 
StewartR said:
Oh come on. It wasn't a stupid back pass. It was an absolutely awful mistake by the goalkeeper. Everyone else on the planet can see that.
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You obviously didn't watch the whole match then, because that was an incident waiting to happen. Argentina from the off were faffing around in their own penalty area and nearly got caught out three times. After the break there were another two scares before the inevitable happened.
Argentina had by far the most possession, with 58% to Croatia's 42%.
The same happened in the Russia Saudi match where Russia hammered five goals past the saudis - Russia 41% Saudi 59%.
Against Iceland where Argentina drew 1 - 1, Argentina had 73% against 27% for Iceland.
In a warm up match against Nigeria in March, Argentina lost 4 -2 yet had 65% possession against Nigeria's 35%.
 
andy700 said:
You obviously didn't watch the whole match then, because that was an incident waiting to happen. Argentina from the off were faffing around in their own penalty area and nearly got caught out three times. After the break there were another two scares before the inevitable happened.
Argentina had by far the most possession, with 58% to Croatia's 42%.
The same happened in the Russia Saudi match where Russia hammered five goals past the saudis - Russia 41% Saudi 59%.
Against Iceland where Argentina drew 1 - 1, Argentina had 73% against 27% for Iceland.
In a warm up match against Nigeria in March, Argentina lost 4 -2 yet had 65% possession against Nigeria's 35%.
Click to expand...

Some teams, like Leicester did, set themselves up for counterattacking football. They soak up pressure and just hit on the break. Just because Spain won a trophy (or Barca, cant remember) without a striker on the pitch does not mean teams shouldn't have a striker!

Lots of negative back and sideways passes here -
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmo9FchKvrE
 
andy700 said:
Argentina had by far the most possession, with 58% to Croatia's 42%.
The same happened in the Russia Saudi match where Russia hammered five goals past the saudis - Russia 41% Saudi 59%.
Against Iceland where Argentina drew 1 - 1, Argentina had 73% against 27% for Iceland.
In a warm up match against Nigeria in March, Argentina lost 4 -2 yet had 65% possession against Nigeria's 35%.
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So what? What do you think that proves? Do you want me to make a list of matches where the team that has had most possession didn't lose? I'm pretty confident it would be a longer list.
 
cambsno said:
Some teams, like Leicester did, set themselves up for counterattacking football. They soak up pressure and just hit on the break. Just because Spain won a trophy (or Barca, cant remember) without a striker on the pitch does not mean teams shouldn't have a striker!

Lots of negative back and sideways passes here -
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmo9FchKvrE
Click to expand...


That is an example of beautiful football - how many of those 42 passes were in Barcelona's last third of the pitch?
Look at the speed of the passing, the instinct and anticipation - everything which was missing from Argentina last night and seventy minutes of England's game against Tunisia.
 
StewartR said:
So what? What do you think that proves? Do you want me to make a list of matches where the team that has had most possession didn't lose? I'm pretty confident it would be a longer list.
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You asked for data in post #84, I provided the data - you cannot handle the data:)
 
I really don’t understand FIFA kit rules. Brazil v Costa Rica. Both teams in away shirts. What’s wrong with yellow against red?
 
Great to see VAR used well for once. Didn't think that was a penalty for Brazil, he went down far too easily, but why was he not booked?
 
Dave1 said:
... England v Germany final does seem impossible.
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You haven't read the chart properly.

If we we our group we're G1 on the left hand side of the chart, and if Germany win their group they're F1 on the right hand side of the chart. And the only time G1 can play F1 is in the final (or the 3rd/4th play-off).
Similarly if we both finish second in our groups: the only way G2 can play F2 is in the final or the 3rd/4th play-off.
 
andy700 said:
You asked for data in post #84, I provided the data - you cannot handle the data:)
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You really think four isolated examples prove your point? In case you've forgotten, nobody here has claimed that possession football is a guarantee of success. Remember I did say there were exceptions.

But I thought it would be interesting to see which team in each match of the World Cup so far had the most possession, and how it turned out for them. (I got the possession stats from fifa.com.)

Match ................ Possession .. Score

Argentina vs Iceland .... 72-28 ..... 1-1
Spain vs Iran ........... 70-30 ..... 1-0
Brazil vs Costa Rica .... 66-34 ..... 2-0
Morocco vs Iran ......... 64-36 ..... 0-1
Spain vs Portugal ....... 61-39 ..... 3-3
Belgium vs Panama ....... 61-39 ..... 3-0
Saudia Arabia vs Russia . 60-40 ..... 0-5
Germany vs Mexico ....... 60-40 ..... 0-1
England vs Tunisia ...... 59-41 ..... 2-1
Japan vs Colombia ....... 59-41 ..... 2-1
Argentina vs Croatia .... 58-42 ..... 0-3
Uruguay vs Egypt ........ 57-43 ..... 1-0
Poland vs Senegal ....... 57-43 ..... 1-2
Egypt vs Russia ......... 57-43 ..... 1-3
Saudi Arabia vs Uruguay . 57-43 ..... 0-1
Nigeria vs Iceland ...... 57-43 ..... 2-0
Peru vs France .......... 56-44 ..... 0-1
Croatia vs Nigeria ...... 54-46 ..... 2-0
Morocco vs Portugal ..... 53-47 ..... 0-1
Peru vs Denmark ......... 52-48 ..... 0-1
Brazil vs Switzerland ... 52-48 ..... 1-1
Sweden vs South Korea ... 52-48 ..... 1-0
France vs Australia ..... 51-49 ..... 2-1
Australia vs Denmark .... 51-49 ..... 1-1
Costa Rica vs Serbia .... 50-50 ..... 0-1

Hmmm. Now I've got the data I don't know what to do with it. The teams that have had the most possession - over 60% say - seem to do OK. Six teams have recorded over 60% possession, and their record is 3 wins, 2 draws and 1 defeat. But I freely admit that I'm cherry-picking the data. If you look at all the teams which have had over 55% possession, say, the outcome is 7 wins, 2 draws and 8 defeats.

Maybe we can agree that possession football can be very effective - look at my list back in post #70, where the teams that recorded the most passing were mostly the highly successful ones - but it's certainly not any kind of guarantee. As you and others have said, there has to be an end product, and in this World Cup so far, the end product has often been lacking.
 
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StewartR said:
You haven't read the chart properly.

If we we our group we're G1 on the left hand side of the chart, and if Germany win their group they're F1 on the right hand side of the chart. And the only time G1 can play F1 is in the final (or the 3rd/4th play-off).
Similarly if we both finish second in our groups: the only way G2 can play F2 is in the final or the 3rd/4th play-off.
Click to expand...

I did (eventually) notice, it's why I deleted the post about 3 minutes after posting...

;)
 
Any ideas why Serbia didn’t get a pen when one of their players was hauled down by 2 Swiss players (not even VAR)?
 
cambsno said:
Any ideas why Serbia didn’t get a pen when one of their players was hauled down by 2 Swiss players (not even VAR)?
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That was even worse than the man handling that Kane received. I wish there was some consistency in the VAR room.

Love to see the Tunisian defence try to do the same to Lukaku.... [emoji38][emoji38]
 
StewartR said:
I have some sympathy, but Panama will be playing with a packed defence and that's not the ideal Vardy situation. On the other hand, as you say, he's a great finisher. I guess it's a toss-up as to who plays instead of Sterling, and Southgate will no doubt be considering what they bring to the team in various tactical situations, in addition to their finishing ability.
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I should start instead of Sterling and I'm 60!
 
cambsno said:
Hopefully this will put an end to people claiming Messi is the greatest player in the world, let alone ever. Yet again he fails to turn up! Argentina are an average team, he is poor. Portugal are an average team, Ronaldo steps up and fights for the win. No contest between the two.
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And yet, Messi is the top scorer in La Liga for the last two years, with a higher goals per game percentage and more than twice as many assists.
 
cambsno said:
Any ideas why Serbia didn’t get a pen when one of their players was hauled down by 2 Swiss players (not even VAR)?
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Because apparently, the rules regarding VAR, state that it is only "advisory", and it is up to the ref to have the final say. In the case of penalties, it is up to the VAR operators to notify the ref when there are incidents like that one last night, although to be fair, the on pitch officials should have noticed it, because it took the Swiss defenders a while to bring their prey down.
Apparently, other teams will now be studying the Swiss model, and will be using at least three players to quickly subdue big attackers in the area.
What is the point of introducing a system like this if the refs are not going to take any notice of it.
 
cambsno said:
Any ideas why Serbia didn’t get a pen when one of their players was hauled down by 2 Swiss players (not even VAR)?
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I think it was because they'd set a precedent when Kane was wrestled to the ground, and they didn't want to appear inconsistent.
 
jakeblu said:
And yet, Messi is the top scorer in La Liga for the last two years, with a higher goals per game percentage and more than twice as many assists.
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Playing for a better team though. To be fair to messi, it’s not his fault that even when he makes a simple 10 yard pass the commentators orgasm in their pants. Winds me up no end though.
 
Excellent performance. Just need to be switched on in defence for Belgium - think we’ll find out just how good we really against them.

Very encouraging though and thought everyone had a good solid game.
 
There's an interesting scenario ahead if England draw with Belgium. If that happens, we'll be equal on points, goal difference and goals scored. The next deciding criterion would be fair play, and then drawing of lots. Currently we lead the fair play stakes with 2 bookings to Belgium's 3.
 
To be fair, I don't think it matters where we finish, the last 16 draw has been good to us,we should make the quarters now.

Not getting ahead of ourselves but COME ON ENGLAND!!
 
What teams have been 'stand out'?

I was impressed withe Croatia, and would guess that Brazil have depth in talent they can call upon. Germany show that they have grit and determination to continue even with chios down. England played d well but the opposition were poor, so I reserve judgement till they beat Belgium [emoji38][emoji38]

Anyone else out there you think can go all the way and win this?
 
Meeten said:
What teams have been 'stand out'?

I was impressed withe Croatia, and would guess that Brazil have depth in talent they can call upon. Germany show that they have grit and determination to continue even with chios down. England played d well but the opposition were poor, so I reserve judgement till they beat Belgium [emoji38][emoji38]

Anyone else out there you think can go all the way and win this?
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Yes, we can! Aside from Croatia, and Belgium, no-one has stood out. While Croatia have been very good, Argentina were so poor. Yes, us and Belgium had 'easy games' but still despatched them well, and our performances have been very good.

Germany have huge flaws at the back, and attack not as strong as we are used to. However, they are Germany and can never be written off. They could easily find themselves in the final with the experience, know how and the fact they are Germany! France have played poorly against relatively weak teams but picked up 2 wins and have a strong squad. Portugal are reliant on 1 player, although the rest of the team are no mugs, and Spain look ok but no better than that. Brazil were lucky to beat Costa Rica and Serbia is not an easy game so could be out, unlikely, but they have not played well.

I don't think any team is looking much better than anyone else, it is up for grabs and our tactics so far have been spot on, so I don't see any reason why we cant go on and win it. Beat Belgium and confidence is sky high, lose and we have potentially an easier group.
 
Neither team we have played has seriously tested our defence, unknown quantity for now.
Will be interested to see what happens if we play a Belgium team that takes the game seriously.
Somehow don't think they will, so will have to wait until the knockout games for its first proper test.

Bit concerned yesterday when Panama scored Stones was standing still with his arm raised for offside.
They also fashioned a great chance just before that and they were hardly an accomplished team.
 
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