Panorama - Apple's broken promises

S

stupar

Guest
Who's watching this?
I find it interesting but also shocking!

I wonder if other tech giants are operating in similar fashions
 
i'm not watching but i wouldnt be suprised , expecting good behaviour from a big company is like expecting honesty from a politician
 
Looks like they are a bad apple.
 
big soft moose said:
i'm not watching but i wouldnt be suprised , expecting good behaviour from a big company is like expecting honesty from a politician
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Sad, but true.

The saddest part for me, is that, if your company makes billions, you could easily forego a tiny proportion, & have the happiest & best looked after workforce. Fantastic PR, best ethical standing & probably even more sales.
 
Yep - watched it here.

Definitely interesting, but sad to say that nothing in there shocked me.
It lost a bit of credibility too for me when they over-egged the sentimental angle - that shot of the 12 year tin worker still working away while the sun went down and everybody else had gone home.
Call me cynical, but it had the feel of being overly staged.
 
I agree re the sentimental part but not withstanding that clearly Apple are not all they are cracked up to be and clearly exploit their worker force and yet when presented with the evidence say that they "disagree" with the findings
 
I haven't seen it but I'm guessing it's along the lines of - global multi billion dollar company is not treating 3rd. world workers very well.

Well, there's a surprise.

Not.

It's a bit like - 10 for £1.50 burgers are full of crap.

No s***.
 
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Not surprised at all, wouldn't hurt Apple to make a couple less $billion and sort this out so that the workers were paid a decent wage (even in China) for the work they do.

I do wonder how they maintain their quality and standards with the work force all so tired?

Anyone with an interest in this subject AND some excellent photography should check out a film by Ed Butynsky called "Manufactured Landscapes". It dates from 2007 but the subject matter is the same and covered in slightly less emotive terms, well worth a watch.

Here he is giving a TED talk


David
 
not surprising tbh make product cheaply charge lots for maximum profit. sad thing is people will still by Apple products.
 
The overseas suppliers are also dodgy potentially too. They may say they don't do all the bad stuff but do it anyway to make extra profit. It's the same as clothing manufacture.

With supply chains being so long it is a lot harder to make sure everyone is behaving themselves than it used to be. A major manufacturer would have to have a team in every single overseas factory to monitor them 24/7. Cynic in me says they'd be bought off in no time.
 
It's nice of them to single out Apple because the line happened to be producing iPhones, the company involved isn't actually Apple, it's a Chinese company called Pegatron, who happen to be part of Asus.

Plenty other big companies use Pegatron as well.

Founded in January 2008 , the company Pegatron is a world leader in electronic and computing DMS (design and manufacturing services) with extensive experience in product development and vertically integrated capabilities. With a capital of U.S. $ 2.7 billion.
Pegatron has been producing: desktops, laptops, smartbook, tablet, computer cases, motherboards, video game consoles, devices, broadband wireless systems, network equipment, PBX, multimedia, LCD TVs and more electronic equipment. Pegatron, boasts a well-diversified portfolio of products, unique design, flexible production capabilities and reliable after-sales service.

Pegatron Company manufactures products for both the parent company ASUSTeK Computer, and under its own brands: Pegatron and ASRock, as well as contracts for other world brendiv. Napryklad at the facilities of Pegatron Corporation made different components for the products the world's largest corporations, including Sony, Apple Inc. (iPod, iPod Shuffle, MacBook), Alienware, Falcon Northwest, Palm, Inc., HP, and many other manufacturers use motherboards Pegatron in their computer systems.
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http://www.pegatron-world.com/about/Pegatron.html
 
"The love of money..." etc.

Reminded me of an excellent documentary called Blue China that dealt with similar abuses in the clothing industry.
 
Pretty sure you could make almost identical programmes about any of the big tech companies.
 
Makes me wonder if all the other tech giants try to purposefully fly under the radar and apple have inadvertantly made a rod for their own back by trying to shout the loudest!
 
stupar said:
Makes me wonder if all the other tech giants try to purposefully fly under the radar and apple have inadvertantly made a rod for their own back by trying to shout the loudest!
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Quite probable I'd say.

I'll be honest and admit I am more concerned with form and function than how it's made.
 
stupar said:
I agree re the sentimental part but not withstanding that clearly Apple are not all they are cracked up to be and clearly exploit their worker force and yet when presented with the evidence say that they "disagree" with the findings
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But it's not Apples work force. The work force belongs to the factory whom Apple employ to manufacture goods.
I understand that Apple should take some responsibility to ensure their supply chain is ethical and all that, but is it fair to make out that this is all Apples fault and the way Apple treat its employees?
 
They are indirectly Apples work force and Apple ultimately have the power and ability to make sure their supply chain is law abiding.
If their supply chain is violating so many protocols the reality is they should pull out and go elsewhere. Clearly we know that wont happen though!

I just find it hard to watch the likes of Tim Cook spout about ethical trading blah blah blah when its essentially a load of b******t.
Two things that strike me are -
the top end of Apple are blissfully unaware what is going on in the supply chain or they are aware but show no care because profit means more.
Sadly for me my money is on the latter
 
As has been said, Apple have made a rod for their own back by saying they have an ethical supply chain etc. This isn't just an Apple issue though and it's somewhat unfair for them to be singled out.

The 2nd part of the program about the illegal tin mining in Indonesia was ridiculous.

Mining tin damages the sea bed and the environment. No sh*t! Many of the processes to extract the planets resources are probably just as bad. We're bleeding the planet dry and destroying it in the process. What you going to do about it? Stop buying ANY products that use resources that have harmed the planet in one way or another? Good luck with that.

As for the kids working on illegal mines. Why is that Apple's problem? Surely it's the Indonesian government that need to pull their finger out? They weren't exactly doing it under the cover of darkness. That huge illegal "floating island" isn't exactly subtle and discreet.

Why didn't they interview the Indonesian government to ask what they plan on doing about it? Oh wait ... that wasn't part of the show was it.

/rant over
 
Alejandro said:
This isn't just an Apple issue though and it's somewhat unfair for them to be singled out.
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True and my original post was suggestive of who else was at it!

There is a saying
"Those who shout the loudest have the most to hide"

Maybe if Apple didnt make a song and dance over what transpires to be a cheaply produced nothing much to shout about product then they too would fly under the radar
 
I don't think it's necessarily unfair to single Apple out because the company published a set of 'standards' outlining how workers should be treated following the suicide of fourteen workers. Apple have portrayed themselves as being 'ethical' to a greater extent than other companies. They also make more profit and are wealthier than other companies.
 
Cartus said:
I don't think it's necessarily unfair to single Apple out because the company published a set of 'standards' outlining how workers should be treated following the suicide of fourteen workers. Apple have portrayed themselves as being 'ethical' to a greater extent than other companies. They also make more profit and are wealthier than other companies.
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So short of them establishing their own production facilities (which wouldn't be allowed by the Chinese government), what else can companies like Apple do?
 
Dave1 said:
So short of them establishing their own production facilities (which wouldn't be allowed by the Chinese government), what else can companies like Apple do?
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in theory they could refuse to do business with people who don't behave ethically - however that would increase the price of their products to the point where they werent competitive

more prafgmatically they could stop spouting b*****ks about having an ethical supply chain, when it patently isnt the case
 
This is what we get for buying cheap stuff manufactured in the far east.

Simple solution, buy local. Not easy in the UK as we don't manufacture **** anymore, but easily doable many other places.
 
Primark, Nike, Apple,etc, etc. The great buying public have demonstrated that they do not really care about these issues. They might stop for two seconds and think "oh dear" before rushing off to buy the latest fashion or gadget, but that's about it.
 
big soft moose said:
in theory they could refuse to do business with people who don't behave ethically - however that would increase the price of their products to the point where they werent competitive

more prafgmatically they could stop spouting b*****ks about having an ethical supply chain, when it patently isnt the case
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Have you seen the list of companies that use Pegatron? Odds are, there is probably a Pegatron part in almost every PC and most tablets in use today.

I think it's good that the companies involved (like Apple) try and pressurise the Chinese manufacturers into a more ethical way of doing business, whether the Chinese think those ethics and workers rights are b*****ks or not.

How much notice is taken is another thing...
 
I think that unless a person knows the origin of every component part of everything they own, and is secure in the knowledge that they were all produced by adults earning a fair and livable wage in safe suitable surroundings, then all the hollering about Apple's ethical standards is nothing more than hot air.
 
I worked in HK/China for several years. FYI It's totally normal for people to snooze at their desks during breaks. A lot of people have a special pillow for it.
 
https://www.apple.com/uk/supplier-responsibility/labor-and-human-rights/

or

https://www.apple.com/supplier-responsibility/pdf/Apple_Supplier_Code_of_Conduct.pdf
Apple Supplier Code of Conduct
Version 4.0
Effective Date: January 1, 2014
Apple Supplier Code of Conduct
Apple is committed to the highest standards of social and environmental responsibility
and ethical conduct. Apple’s suppliers are required to provide safe working conditions,
treat workers with dignity and respect, act fairly and ethically, and use environmentally
responsible practices wherever they make products or perform services for Apple.
Apple requires its suppliers to operate in accordance with the principles in this Apple
Supplier Code of Conduct (“Code”) and in full compliance with all applicable laws
and regulations. This Code goes beyond mere compliance with the law by drawing
upon internationally recognized standards to advance social and environmental
responsibility. This Code outlines Apple’s expectations for Supplier conduct regarding
labor and human rights, health and safety, environmental protection, ethics, and
management practices.
Apple will assess its suppliers’ compliance with this Code, and any violations of this Code
may jeopardize the supplier’s business relationship with Apple, up to and including
termination. This Code applies to Apple suppliers and their subsidiaries, affiliates, and
subcontractors (each a “Supplier”) providing goods or services to Apple, or for use in or
with Apple products.
Additionally, Apple maintains detailed standards that explicitly define our expectations
for compliance with this Code.
 
Byker28i said:
https://www.apple.com/uk/supplier-responsibility/labor-and-human-rights/

or

https://www.apple.com/supplier-responsibility/pdf/Apple_Supplier_Code_of_Conduct.pdf
Apple Supplier Code of Conduct
Version 4.0
Effective Date: January 1, 2014
Apple Supplier Code of Conduct
Apple is committed to the highest standards of social and environmental responsibility
and ethical conduct. Apple’s suppliers are required to provide safe working conditions,
treat workers with dignity and respect, act fairly and ethically, and use environmentally
responsible practices wherever they make products or perform services for Apple.
Apple requires its suppliers to operate in accordance with the principles in this Apple
Supplier Code of Conduct (“Code”) and in full compliance with all applicable laws
and regulations. This Code goes beyond mere compliance with the law by drawing
upon internationally recognized standards to advance social and environmental
responsibility. This Code outlines Apple’s expectations for Supplier conduct regarding
labor and human rights, health and safety, environmental protection, ethics, and
management practices.
Apple will assess its suppliers’ compliance with this Code, and any violations of this Code
may jeopardize the supplier’s business relationship with Apple, up to and including
termination. This Code applies to Apple suppliers and their subsidiaries, affiliates, and
subcontractors (each a “Supplier”) providing goods or services to Apple, or for use in or
with Apple products.
Additionally, Apple maintains detailed standards that explicitly define our expectations
for compliance with this Code.
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I think Blah Blah Blah would have covered it.....and for many other companies too.
 
chadders said:
Primark, Nike, Apple,etc, etc. The great buying public have demonstrated that they do not really care about these issues. They might stop for two seconds and think "oh dear" before rushing off to buy the latest fashion or gadget, but that's about it.
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Primark and latest fashion now there's an oxymoron if I've ever heard one
 
jakeblu said:
Primark and latest fashion now there's an oxymoron if I've ever heard one
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May I take this opportunity to state that other clothing stores are also available in every town and city . :)
 
Didn't see the programme so didn't see the working conditions etc. But these companies have no problem getting people to work in such conditions and for the money they pay, purely because these people need jobs to earn money to feed their families. Ok conditions could be better and safer, but paying more money would have a direct effect on the economy they live in.
Apple pay the company to manufacture their goods at a price, that company then pays it's employees, so long as Apple get their products made to the required quality. Let's face it if Apple will quite happily overcharge (screw over) their customers (mugs to pay it) for the products, they are not going to be concerned about how a 3rd party treats the people making the goods.
 
It is always a difficult one. Without the big contracts there wouldn't be the work either for the people. And I just love how the press operates at times, it is reports from companies like Apple and several others which highlights those issues in the first place. Wholesale withdrawal isn't the solution. It will take a long and cultural change to make things better. And not least people like is willing to pay a realistic price for the projects we want.
 
Most clothes manufacturing has long since moved away from China anyway, Vietnam, Sri Lanka, Cambodia, Indonesia are the latest countries to 'benefit' from our cheapass buying habits.
 
dejongj said:
And not least people like is willing to pay a realistic price for the projects we want.
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Or companies being satisfied with a reasonable profit :)
 
Dave1 said:
So who decides what profit is reasonable? Or what the actual profit made is?
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Well, (purely from Panorama), allegedly the phone sells for $600+, the factory gets $5 per phone ... who decides at the moment is the seller ... who clearly wants maximum profit from minimum outlay.
 
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