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He hasn't been doing a very good job so far. Lack of information, exaggeration and miss-information contributed to his political demise in the first place.
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An Independent Scotland?
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He hasn't been doing a very good job so far. Lack of information, exaggeration and miss-information contributed to his political demise in the first place.
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In your opinion, but I'm not getting dragged into an argument over it.
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The only people saying it has no chance is the SNP.
I'd say there's every chance of increased devolution getting through both Houses, and for a very good reason. UKIP, like them or hate them are likely to make major gains in the next election, and they are all in favour of devolved powers to England. That wouldn't matter much if it wasn't for the fact that many English are sick and tired of Scots voting in our matters, and ignoring what the English want/need. UKIP will if Cameron doesn't devolve powers to England gain alot of votes Cameron needs.
In order to devolve English powers he has to have Scotland NI and to an extent Wales with equal devolution.
The result is Scotland will get 'devo max', if only by default.
I know you are welded to the SNP party line Hugh, but please stop it. Go away and think for yourself.
The powers will come to pass as they don't have much of a choice now they have been promised. Not unless they want another referendum and Yes to win.
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It is going to happen, but not overnight (and not this weekend) I think it's going to be good for the UK in general.
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And you can thank alex Salmond for that, instead of constantly slagging him off.
I think it's good it is taking its time to get it right, no need to rush it from my perspective. Elements of the Yes campaign want a revote though and are launching petitions about electoral fraud based on some dubious claims and are having a revote march next week.
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And you can thank alex Salmond for that, instead of constantly slagging him off.
I'm not slagging him off as a person, I disagree with how he has conducted himself and the campaign. The voting majority agreed. That is all.
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Spoken like a two year old having a tantrum. Is this the way it is going to be? Even though the democratic majority didn't agree with you, you'll threaten a referendum each time you don't get something you don't want! Man, it really sounds like it is time to grow up, and move on...
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One of my points which I mentioned earlier is the paradox around the Scots not supporting the SNP in one of the SNP's main policy objectives
The Scottish electorate with a turnout of say 45% put the SNP into power ……… then 55% of the Scottish voters when the turnout was 86% rejected the SNP's advice …….
Does that in any way say that the people who do not normally vote do not support the SNP, probably not, but it is interesting
Maybe the over 55's do not really support the SNP
The Scottish electorate with a turnout of say 45% put the SNP into power ……… then 55% of the Scottish voters when the turnout was 86% rejected the SNP's advice …….
Does that in any way say that the people who do not normally vote do not support the SNP, probably not, but it is interesting
Maybe the over 55's do not really support the SNP
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Fixed that for you
Westminster did bear gifts ………. not sure yet if the boxes are empty
and a son of Scotland, Georgie Brown, displayed his usual incompetence by leading the delegation
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You'll forgive me if I say that image is from a drop box account, and google image search links it to a number of individuals twitter feeds.
Where was the original source?
And as I made the point in post #4914, rushed decisions and announcements never really work out
however in this case I think the progress of the yes vote influenced these changes and something needed to be done rapidly to redress the balance. In doing so I don't believe they fully considered the implications to the other countries and these are now being looked at. It may be the timetable as you've presented slips, but provided it's not too far and the correct solution is found, is it really so much of an issue? You'll still get your desired result, independence just slowly at one small piece at a time . However, again as I stated, these constructional changes will affect all, not just one minority.It does however in a democratic country need to be voted through. So it could never be a promise, with a rigid timetable, rather than a commitment to put forward the appropriate changes.
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It was a fairly emotionally charged decision, it's no wonder some are seeking to make political capital. Not just Salmond, but others seeking to distance themselves from commitments made.
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Historically the party in power always do poorly in mid term elections. Everyone likes to blame the person in power.
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Historically the party in power always do poorly in mid term elections. Everyone likes to blame the person in power.
do not understand what that has to do with the Independence Vote
are you saying that the Scots voted against the SNP because they were unhappy about their performance in "Government"
I do not know how many SNP voters there were when they were elected ……. but it could be, because of the high turn out and significant number of voters who never voted in the General Election for the SNP …… that even if all the General Election SNP voters had voted "Yes" …… the "No" side would still have prevailed
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To be honest I don't get what any of this has to do with the independence vote. The vote was requested, the vote was granted, the vote was held, and the democratic majority voted No. End of the vote...
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end of vote maybe, but not end of debate …….. it could go on forever until Independence is achieved ……. that is the nature of man
The only way you will get rid of an independence movement is when they achieve independence. You saying the 3 parties can just kick the powers promised into the long grass and hope people forget is political myopia.
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And that is exactly what the Yes camp is doing, funnily enough a lot of the things they want to do they can do today. Change begins with yourself. you don't have to wait to build a better society on government approval or rules. Nothing at all is stopping anyone getting of their backside or internet keyboard and commence change and improve the society around themselves. That is after all what the big society is about. why wait on a government to do it for you? Why wait on independence? Why not start today? Don't let ambition get in the way of step change today....
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simon ess
Just call me Roxanne.
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It wasn't meant critically. I can see it can be read that way though.
He was a genius, and he did contribute massively to the industrialisation of Japan.
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Wow. It's all over the place, isn't it.
I think Miliband is in real political danger here.
Firstly he's sticking his head in the sand over the West Lothian question. Saying that he doesn't want there to be "two classes of MP" might be a snappy soundbite but it doesn't wash because there are already two classes: (1) those who are entitled to vote on matters which are totally unconnected to their constituents (ie MPs representing Scottish constituencies) and (2) all the rest. And I think he's out if step with a lot of people in England, who would regard getting a fair settlement for England as at least as important as sorting out Scotland.
Secondly, he's looking naive. He says Cameron had not raised the English issue with him before they signed their joint "vow" with Lib Dem leader Nick Clegg ahead of Thursday's referendum. Well, duh. It should have been obvious to him.
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If it's any consolation, I read it the same way you did.
MWHCVT
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I love the ideology of well never stop campaigning for independence until we get it...when you get it what then...ah yes the vocal campaign would likely start from the campaign to re join the union...
I still think the biggest failing was in not considering just how much of Scotland's GDP would be swallows in the civil services and diplomatic services...
Would an independent Scotland have embassy's world wide? I wonder what that would cost to set up? And maintain
I still think the biggest failing was in not considering just how much of Scotland's GDP would be swallows in the civil services and diplomatic services...
Would an independent Scotland have embassy's world wide? I wonder what that would cost to set up? And maintain
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Moot point for the moment but why does/did everyone assume that all this huge expense was going to hit us all at once? Not every nation on earth has embassies in every other and where you do have them they're not all huge expensive status symbols. It is/was a non issue, just one of the million things that would have been sorted over time as and when it needed to be.
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It's not about the yes campaign if the promised powers fall through though. If the promise of additional powers is what swung the vote in favour of a no, do you really think the no's will just say "damn, I knew this would happen"?
I don't think so.
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I am curious, genuinely, what are these purely english issues that the scots have voted on. Also, why is it the fault of the scots that english needs are ignored, and what exactly are these needs. Its worth remembering that we actually refused devolved powers when they were offered by the Blair government which would have gone some way to solving the west lothian question
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Firstly Steve, you said "We refused" Devolved powers. By We, do you mean the English? If so, we have never been asked.
Moving on, as Bob pointed out, mostly correctly, there's a difference between Scots and England & Wales legislation. Yet the Scots vote on ours, the reverse does not apply. Now thats not just Criminal Legislation, it's civil as well as enabling legislation on purely English matters. So for example PCC's, which I hope will soon disappear, Scots voted on, but don't have. Likewise on the NHS, Scots MP's vote on anything to do with that, yet don't have the use for it, Scotland having it's own.
No one has suggested it's the Scot's fault, it's a historical hangover, but under Labour it's never going to go away, they have too many MP's from Scotland, so it's unlikely they could successfully object to E&W legislation successfully. But you surely know that.
Of course Scots MP's should be involved in defence and foreign policy. Depending on how Tax raising powers end up in Scotland, also on economic issues. But if Scotland for example sets it's own spending and tax raising, then why should they be involved in the same for England?
Moving on, as Bob pointed out, mostly correctly, there's a difference between Scots and England & Wales legislation. Yet the Scots vote on ours, the reverse does not apply. Now thats not just Criminal Legislation, it's civil as well as enabling legislation on purely English matters. So for example PCC's, which I hope will soon disappear, Scots voted on, but don't have. Likewise on the NHS, Scots MP's vote on anything to do with that, yet don't have the use for it, Scotland having it's own.
No one has suggested it's the Scot's fault, it's a historical hangover, but under Labour it's never going to go away, they have too many MP's from Scotland, so it's unlikely they could successfully object to E&W legislation successfully. But you surely know that.
Of course Scots MP's should be involved in defence and foreign policy. Depending on how Tax raising powers end up in Scotland, also on economic issues. But if Scotland for example sets it's own spending and tax raising, then why should they be involved in the same for England?
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But you would need them, that's the point as well as trade attaches in them with pretty much any country Scotland wants to trade with...what about scots travelling abroad, the Uk embassies are currently a first point of call for most Brits travelling abroad when stuff goes seriously wrong...in suspect you underestimate how quickly stuff would need to be sorted as you were going to be one of the richest countries in the world
Hell it really is millions of little things that go into making a modern first world country all of which serve there individual purpose even though some it may not be totally clear what that is and the early costs would have been in the billions
Agree entirely...I said this on a Facebook last night, but for the further devolution of power certain things are also going to have to change for the other country's in the union to stop everyone else feeling like the poor relation to the petulant Scotland...mainly votes on issues that only affect specific counties in the union should only be voted on by MPs from that country...and it's going to take time to sort that out...frankly the only one really stalling on that right now is Labour as such a core change to structure on UK politics is really going to likely effect them the most
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I think you're flogging a dead horse here. The cost of establishing a new country was well debated and it isn't the reason for the No vote.
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Probably so, ironically personally whilst I didn't want to see the union broken up, the loss of Scotland could actually have proved a good thing for the rest of the union
maybe I should have been pro Yes my reason for actually being pro no was actually I genuinely felt that the costs of independence would be so great when thinking of all that would need to be done would actually be crippling for so long that it would really harm the country
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Well seen than it took Scotland to stand up to the big boys in order for everyone to now benefit from the forthcoming reforms.
You can call us all whingers, petulant, childish etc, but at least when we weren't happy, we tried to do something about it.
You can call us all whingers, petulant, childish etc, but at least when we weren't happy, we tried to do something about it.
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Well seen than it took Scotland to stand up to the big boys in order for everyone to now benefit from the forthcoming reforms.
You can call us all whingers, petulant, childish etc, but at least when we weren't happy, we tried to do something about it.
Yep, you had an election, well we, did, and it turned out a siginificant minority were very unhappy indeed.
Quite. Well, now its done and a no vote is made, then what. More devolution, more of the same of Scotland for the next decade. I like the idea of a Federal system actually. It will work better for our English brethern too.
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Well seen than it took Scotland to stand up to the big boys in order for everyone to now benefit from the forthcoming reforms.
You can call us all whingers, petulant, childish etc, but at least when we weren't happy, we tried to do something about it.
Yep, you had an election, well we, did, and it turned out a siginificant minority were very unhappy indeed.
Quite. Well, now its done and a no vote is made, then what. More devolution, more of the same of Scotland for the next decade. I like the idea of a Federal system actually. It will work better for our English brethern too.