Anybody done any Astro photography?

wippers

wippers

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Gareth
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Hi guys. For some time now I've been thinking about getting a half decent telescope. Does anyone have any experience or advice?
So far I've looked at s local manufacturer Orion who were really helpful and advised on a 10" with a Heq5 mount.

Any advice more than welcome.
 
Ask in the astro photography section?
 
A 10" scope on a HEQ5 for astrophotography is way too big!. In Astro, concentrate on getting the most stable mount you can first then the optics second.

An NEQ6 with an 80mm(ish) refractor would be a better bet.

Beware - it is a massively steep learning curve!
 
Gareth be warned this can become more expensive than photography and just as absorbing if not more so.

The first thing to work out is what kind of astrophotography you want to do, wide field i.e. star fields, nebulae etc or planetary, or a mix of both.

The choice will govern the type of main telescope you go for, most doing wide field prefer fast refractors around F5, for planetary then its the choice between an SCT @F10 or more or a large refractor around F11 or more, either way its the mount thats the most important thing as Lee has said, though the choice of mount depends on a lot of factors.
1- where you'll be using it, permanently mounted at home in an observatory or will you be taking it out to dark sky sites?
2- Your physical abilities, an HEQ6 with tripod & counterweights weighs a fair bit.
3- How deeply you want to get involved in the hobby.


You can of course start astrophotography without a telescope at all, in fact you already have most of the kit you need to start, i.e. a good selection of lenses (though I'd add 24mm & 50mm primes- MF focus is fine) and you have an excellent DSLR, all you need to add is a manfrotto 410 geared tripod head and a kendrick astrotrac to allow you to take longish exposure images, certainly targets such as the orion nebula etc are within the scope of that set up.
This would give you an excellent light weight easy to set up and use package that would also take a small refractor such as a small williams optics when your ready to add a telescope.

Later you can start lengthening exposures, maybe looking at a better mount such as the HEQ6 and add a larger scope on a duo bar set up and use the smaller as a guide scope with a small guide camera for better tracking on longer exposures.
Also I believe there is still a system of clip in filters such as UHC etc available to fit canon camera bodies

I would heartily recommend joining a site called "the stargazers lounge" you'll be hard pressed to find a more friendly and helpful as well as skilled group of astronomers and astrophotographers on the net.

Retailers wise I would recommend first light optics & ian king imaging, both are really helpful and are prepared to give you the benefit of their knowledge as well as a decent price on the kit.
WEX also carry astro equipment.

I can't hand on heart recommend Orion these days as they don't have that extensive a range of what I would call pro level gear, its more aimed at the budget amatuer.

Telescopes wise I've always preferred williams optics refractors as both the optical & build quality is world class & celestron & mead SCT's 8" & above.

What ever you do, don't fall into the trap of the cheaper kit on eBay, most of it just doesn't have the level of precision engineering required for astro photography.

P.S - Your 500mm F4 along with a 2x TC would make a great 1000mm F8 for lunar & planetary shots for now.
 
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Wow. Thanks for taking the time to go through this for me. Very much appreciated. I'm going to have a good read through, digest and probably ask plenty more questions when I have. [emoji6]
 
If you've not already done so Gareth, get hold of the book 'Making Every Photon Count' available here - This is something of an astro imaging bible and should be mandatory reading for all before spending a single penny!!! If you've not already done so, get onto the various astro forums - Such as Stargazerslounge or Astroshed. They're friendly places and probably a little more suited to specific astro questions than TP.

If I can help at all, then just drop me a line (y)
 
Yeah it won't be the first time either.
Sara I've just watched one of your very interesting videos. There's definitely a lot to learn with this hobby and I'm keen to give it a go. I don't mind spending a bit on a decent mount as that seems to be majorly important. Would you have a preference over the Heq5 or Neq6 as I can't see what the differences are apart from the cost?
 
Gareth the main difference is the extra precision of tracking with the NEQ6, when it comes to astro photography tracking precision is one of the most important aspects as the longer you can track and object precisely the longer the exposure time you can use or the longer duration without adjustment when taking multiple exposures to stack.

If your going to use one at home I would seriously look into getting a pier to put it on rather than the tripod as its much more stable in my experience and also can be concreted in to provide a permanent fixture.

I just remembered this video, it shows how you can go out and do some astro photography right now with the kit you have, so you can start getting an idea of what your doing.
I think its a great idea as your starting to learn how to stack images and learn to get the best out of the stacking software you choose.

 
In my experience having had an HEQ5 and a friend having an NEQ6 there really is little difference in tracking accuracy between the two, To be honest once you get into this you will be guiding your kit anyway, so any advantage that there may or may not be between the two will in effect disappear. The NEQ6 has a bigger weight capacity and so will carry a bigger and heavier scope than the HEQ5.

Each Skywatcher mount has a manufacturer specified weight capacity for imaging and observing (They are different) - If I was looking at the two, I would go for an NEQ6 as the bigger weight capacity gives you a little bot of future proofing if you decide you want a bigger scope down the line.
 
For starters I am thinking of perhaps getting the NEQ6 and a 2x teleconverter for my 500/f4 and see how I get on. This looks to be the cheapest option to get started and see if I enjoy it without compromising on kit quality. Is this likely to be enough focal length at 1000mm and from experience in the past the 2x teleconverter can degrade the image quality?
 
Just a question of getting the clouds out of the way first before doing anything skyward, at least here in the UK
 
Having now had a look at a few scopes and got a bit more info, it looks like I'm being steered towards a 80mm refractor triplet scope (circa £900). Does this sound like a sensible option and does anyone have any specific scope or advice? It also looks like funds will only allow a Heq5 mount.
 
Which 80mm triplet Gareth?

You'll need to factor in extension tubes for it (to allow your DSLR to come to be placed at prime focus) get the decent CNC'd ones and a Batinov mask to aid focusing, for planetary shooting you'll probably find you want a 2x or even 3x barlow to increase the magnification the 2" ED ones are the best option to start with and conversely if shooting wide field images you may find you want a focal reducer/field flattener, this is where like I said it can get expensive, its all the little additions that you find you need and don't get me started on eyepieces, money makes a hell of a lot of difference with them, once you've owned a good Televue wide angled eyepiece anything else just doesn't hit the mark.
 
magicaxeman said:
Which 80mm triplet Gareth?

You'll need to factor in extension tubes for it (to allow your DSLR to come to be placed at prime focus) get the decent CNC'd ones and a Batinov mask to aid focusing, for planetary shooting you'll probably find you want a 2x or even 3x barlow to increase the magnification the 2" ED ones are the best option to start with and conversely if shooting wide field images you may find you want a focal reducer/field flattener, this is where like I said it can get expensive, its all the little additions that you find you need and don't get me started on eyepieces, money makes a hell of a lot of difference with them, once you've owned a good Televue wide angled eyepiece anything else just doesn't hit the mark.
Click to expand...


http://www.rothervalleyoptics.co.uk...super-ed-triplet-apo-refractor-telescope.html

This is the one I have been looking at.
 
That's not a bad looking scope but I have no experience of that brand.

The below list is what I'd be after myself and the scopes actually a bit cheaper, also if you decided to buy the lot and are a stargazers lounge member I believe Steve gives a discount, its certainly worth asking him. (all items are clickable links)

Scope - William optics GT 81 triplet APO ED Spec wise its just as good as the one your looking at and my experience with WO scopes is that they're the best out there in terms of build/optical quality as well as value for money.

Mount - Skywatcher HEQ5 Pro Synscan

Diagonal - William optics 2" Dialectric (only needed if you want to optically view the sky as well as photograph).

Finder - Celestron Illuminated RAC - The illuminated reticle and the right angle design make it very easy to use and see what your targeting a good finder scope is essential.

Bahtinov Mask - Starsharp Bahtinov focus mask - Essential focusing aid to attain critical focus.

Field flattener/camera adaptor - Skywatcher field flattener - The field flattener corrects any coma/distortions and also acts as an adaptor & extension tube to allow the connection of your DSLR, Just add a T ring (below) and your sorted at not much more cost than a decent extension tube.

T ring - Canon T Ring - Screw onto the Field flattener to attach your DSLR

Power tank - Celestron 17 ah power tank - Optional extra to power your mount etc when away from power sources.

Barlow lens - 2" ED 2x barlow - Doubles the magnification for lunar & planetary shots where you need more magnification.

I've not included eyepieces as they're such a subjective item thats down to personal preference, my own where a televue 19mm panoptic & 14mm Radian for general viewing which to be honest was like stepping out into space and TMB planetaries in the smaller sizes ( 12mm - 6mm).

I've recommended First light optics as I've dealt with them a lot in the past and they have always been friendly, knowledgable and gone the extra mile for me on obtaining hard to get items and also provided great back up and support.

I hope this helps a little and doesn't confuse you.
 
Thanks @magicaxeman, I've been following this thread as I keep toying with the idea of getting into astro and that is really helpful in terms of all the bits (and the cost) of getting started.
 
Thanks for the info there Magicaxeman. That's given me more to think about. They look like a nice piece of kit so I think I'll give FLO a call to go through a few things and as I'm a member of SGL I might see what discount there is available. ;)
 
Well I thought I had sorted the scope to buy (the william optics is a nice piece of kit) but there's one major thing I didn't realise/think of - if I want to view the night sky as well as photograph it, then the 80mm refractor won't let me? From what I've read I may have to go back to the original reflector scope (a friend has a Orion VX8L 8" http://www.orionoptics.co.uk/VX/vx8-8l.html ) which seems to do what I want it to. Does this sound right?
 
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In my experience you will struggle to find a scope that does imaging and visual equally well..... what you need for one you don't need for the other and vice versa :)
 
Although as a photographer image quality is always number one for me, but I've always wanted to see Saturns rings with my own eyes for example and I can't see how the 80mm will let me do this? I prefer the idea of the smaller refractor over a larger less well built reflector though.
 
The telescope you really need for visual astronomy of planets is Maksutov, SCT or a larger APO refractor with a longer focal length, i.e. an F11 or F13, I've seen the rings of saturn with a meade ETX 90 (90mm Maksutov), but much better through my late brothers old 6" skywatcher refractor (affectionately known as the "Exocet" because it was about the size of an Exocet missile) & later my C6 SCT but the most affordable addition to allow the visual viewing of the planets would be a 90mm - 180mm maksutov (usually F10), this type of OTA can be picked up relatively cheaply especially when compared to the cost of the refractor and you could fit both scopes to the mount at the same time using a duo bar.
Celestron also do some cracking little SCT's that work well and could be used for planetary/lunar imaging as well, they can also be reduced to an F6.3 with a focal reducer and are easy to connect camera's to.

My last set up was a Celestron C6 SCT & William Optics ZS 66 SD refractor on a CG5 GT mount using a duo bar.
I used the refractor for wide field/DSO's and the C6 for lunar & planetary.
Surprisingly even in the massively light polluted skies of Chelmsford the little ZS 66 provided some fantastic views, especially of Orion when paired with the 19mm panoptic eyepiece and even more shocking was that later when I became more disabled and confined to bed I could still get amazing images of the moon by shooting out the open bedroom window with the C6, I had the whole lot set up on a pedestal by the bedroom window so I just had to get someone to open the window and turn it on, the rest I could do from my laptop.

I've had to give up these days but its still something I miss like crazy and have done a couple of articles on disabled astronomy in the past, but I will admit I'm finding trying to help you get started immensely rewarding, so thank you very much for making me feel useful again.

I really hope you get set up soon so you can get out and enjoy our winter skies.
 
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Thanks for all the help so far Magicaxeman. It's a massive help. It's been a huge learning curve so far and I haven't even bought anything yet (just got money burning a hole I think). So it looks like if I want a good scope that will do both the visual and photography work I'd have to spend mega bucks on at larger refractor and I don't think my £2000 budget is going to get me one. So my understanding is (and correct me if I'm wrong with this which I may well be) that I can view space (nebula, planets - although there's only really Saturn and perhaps Jupiter/Mars?) but would need a reasonably sized reflector scope which will allow the light in but doesn't need to be a low f stop. For photography, the couple of 80mm refractors I have so far seen would be sufficient. I suppose it's a bit of a balancing act between viewing capabilities vs photographing capabilities? I think due to my budget there isn't one scope I can buy that will do everything I want (there probably isn't one full stop) so I need to get the best I can for both my budget and what I want to get out of the hobby. It's looking like I will go for the HEQ5 pro goto mount for starters regardless of what scope I end up with, and perhaps look at the SCT designs for viewing to start with and add an 80mm refractor at a later date when I've saved up again. Does that sound like a reasonable plan? Or do I go for the larger reflector for now which will let me view the night sky and get me used to how everything works before replacing with a decent smaller refractor later.
 
Im not sure that scope would to the level you'd like, it'll be good theres no doubt but its quite an expensive as well as large & heavy OTA and will eat a large part of your budget.

I think what you need to do is sit down and have a long think about your priorities, which is most important to you visual or astrophotography?
What targets do you primarily see yourself shooting will it be planets or nebulae/ star fields & galaxies etc?

Ive been thinking long and hard on this and looking around a bit at whats going at present.
The mount is the most important bit, you got that set at the HEQ5 pro its great for any combination of scopes & cameras weighing up to 11kg but any more than that you'll need the greater load bearing capacity of the NEQ6, I say this not to cause confusion but because weight soon adds up & the 5D isn't a light weight itself, so two scopes + camera & bits, diagonal & eyepiece, finder scopes could depending on the scope sizes & weights could have a bearing on it.

Fortunately there are plenty of options.

You could go for the WO 81 + HEQ5 outfit and add a Skywatcher 127mm maksutove OTA for planetary that would be within your budget, you've then got a good outfit that could cover both.

Or you could buy a slightly smaller APO doublet refractor and buy the celestron SCT as well as the mount etc

You could use your 500mm F4 for now instead of the refractor and get a larger 8" SCT & equatorial wedge ( HEQ5 not needed)

Or finally and probably my personal choice would be to just concentrate on the refractor & mount for now and buy a diagonal, a couple of eyepieces & a 3x barlow so you can do some visual with it as well until you can afford an SCT at a latter date.

I've also seen a scope on eBay that looks pretty good, a 102mm F7 APO triplet with all the goodies you need to start with bar the mount as well as a solar filter for white light solar viewing/photography, it might be worth a look if you feel the size is manageable for you. (weighs 5kg for the OTA etc)

Ascension 102mm outfit


Ascension retailers site

I'll be honest, I think the WO is slightly better quality but you get a hell of a lot of bang for you buck with the Ascension.
 
Thanks for your input again. The more I am learning about this hobby the more I am beginning to understand where you are coming from. Yes I need to concentrate on whether I want to do mainly viewing or photographing and I think it's going to be the latter. Since my last post I have done some more searching and discussing with various people in the know so to speak, and have decided that a 102mm refractor is the way I am going to go with a view to possibly adding a guide scope at a later stage if I'm enjoying the hobby. I have seen the Ascension 102mm f7 on Ebay and depending on what it goes for it might be a good buy and save me a few pennies. Sadly he won't end early so no idea what he would want for it. The other 102mm I have looked at is pushing the budget a bit but it might be that's what I end up doing as the money's burning a hole in my pocket ;). It's the Altair Wave 102mm f7 apo triplet at £1350 which is £150 cheaper than the WO and I think they have the same optics, although the WO looks bloody lovely :). I think I'll still have to go down the HEQ5 route as this seems to get great reviews and quite a bit cheaper then the NEQ6. Hopefully the total weight will be ok.
 
Well I've gone for it. Ordered an Altair Wave 102mm APO triplet f7 along with a HEQ5 mount. I've taken your advice and just gone for the viewing option for now until I get used to how it all works. I've also added a 2x Barlow lens and eyepiece. Now I suppose is when the learning curve goes up. Many thanks for all your help so far it is very much appreciated and helped me immensely in making a decision. I shall keep this thread posted with updates as I progress.
 
Glad to hear it got sorted Grant, I'll have my carer dig around and see if I've got any bits left...
 
Well the scope and mount turned up yesterday so put it all together last night. Bit of a task when you have no idea what you're doing and the instructions seem to be aimed at those who have reasonable experience already. Eventually got it sorted after finding the built in scope that they have secretly hidden in the the mount :thinking:. I think I've managed to get it balanced up well enough so now just need a clear sky to get stuck in, although I'm just going to view for starters before trying to get the full goto set up.
 
First try of the new scope. Have to say this is going to take some learning. So far I e only managed to get a decent view of the Moon. All the other stars just look un-magnified. Not sure what I'm doing wrong but back to the book for more reading.

ImageUploadedByTalk Photography Forums1455834695.518398.jpg
 
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Stars are very small even when viewed through a telescope in my experience and tbh I have been a bit disappointed, thought I would get shots like they get from the Hubble, unless I am doing it wrong too. What size eye piece are you using, it's that which magnifies the original image.
Matt
 
I'm using a 12mm eyepiece along with a 2x Barlow. I did find Jupiter and could see the stripes and its moons quite clearly. I think perhaps it's only the planets in our solar system that are close enough to see anything other than a white dot.
 
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