back button focus

KIPAX

KIPAX

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KIPAX Lancashire UK
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OK been photogrpahing for many yrs so not a newbie.. but everyhting i did learn i learnt quite slowly and with a lot of learning by mistakes... I aint the quickest at picking things up but I do get there in the end...

Guessing this question will be watched by others:)


Back button as focus....

How.. settings on a 1dmkII/IV

Why

Walk through how you use it in various situations.. when to press and not press.
 
I tried this yesterday on the meet, there are some advantages somewhere, but I couldn't find them. It's something I'll look at again though.
 
on the 40D the custom function is under "operation/others" and is the "shutter button/AF-ON button" option. Hopefully something similar 1D.

I have recently been playing around with it, and I can see some uses, but it just isn't for me, spent way too many years using the shutter button to focus :(

Am currently trying it set to back button and shutter button for focusing, see if I can get the best of both worlds :)
 
just imagine you have the af as normal on the shutter button, you have the camera set to afs(single focus) and a stationary subject (dog) so that would be fine.
But if that dog then runs at you, you will have to change focus modes from single to continues focus(which is on the front of the camera or in menu on lower spec cams) which is a pain and you have missed the pics.
also all the time you have af on the is/vr/os is working.

now imagine you have the camera set to rear button af and keep camera set to afc(continues focus),
dog sits, point camera press rear af button (focuses on dog) take finger off button(same as single point focus) then the dog decideds it wants to run at you(bonus) because you have rear button af selected so no fidling in menus or changing focus modes over just press the rear af button and it will track the dog runing at you.:D
also with using the rear af button it saves the vr/is/os because its only activated on the shutter half press, so as long as you dont press the shutter you will save the vr/is/os wearing out and also running your battery down.
 
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I changed a few months ago and I do prefer it but it is not yet totally instinctive and I sometimes put my thumb on the wrong back button but I think that is mostly when I change from one camera to another and they are not identical.

I would play with it in a non-vital situation before using it for real to see if you can change a long held instinctive habit.
 
I changed to back button focusing about 4 years ago and use nothing else.

1d mk2n If I remember correctly (not near camera at the moment)
Custom function 04 setting 3 which equals AF on * back button, AE not locked till shutter fire, this is what I use 90% of the time (I do a lot of sport).
I sometimes use setting CF04 on setting 1 which still gives you AF on * button but AE is locked on first press of shutter so general not very good for sport, if I want to choose where I meter I find leaving on setting 3 and shooting manual exposure far more controllable and easy to just nudge exposure up or down depending on what I'm shooting.

At first I tried to use back button focusing just some of the time and it was a disaster, I'd either forget to use the * back button when it was set or when not set use the it and instead of focusing it would AE lock !! It takes some getting use to and I find people who don't get on with it either don't try for long enough or try to use it just sometimes.

Why do I use it ? Gives me complete control of focus and exposure, very popular with sports and wildlife photographers.
 
1DIV settings,

Custom function 4: operation others

1/ Shutter button/AF-On button, set this to No2 - Metering start/Meter + AF start
 
Page 16 here.

I read "some" of this.

99% of the time I shoot Continuous AF using the AF-ON button to focus and the shutter release button to capture the image. I commend this method to you.:D

(I do like the option Canon :bang: has that allows you to choose an AF point for different camera orientations. If anyone knows how to do this on a D3s I would like to know)
 
Why?

When using Al Servo, there is the chance that when using the half press of the shutter button to track the subject that you will lift pressure on the button slightly before the full press to activate the shutter thus disabling the focus tracking, and it having to start again.

How,

Once you have spied your subject, ie; footy player running to wards goal, keep your thumb on the AF-ON button thus always tracking your subject and only press the shutter button to release the shutter when required.

Takes a few hours to get used to but it does work :D
 
Hi Tony. I started using BBF and after a while got comfortable with it. Works foe me.
 
When i was using MK11 N i used back button to focus it seemed to give me more control if that makes sense. And now shooting with my nikon d3 using AF button on back but with my d7000 using the shutter button for focus.
 
still not 100% sure.. however as someone mentioned I need to find a non important game...might be pub footy next sunday.. have done loads this weekend and got 3 games midweek but all commisioned.. finding a game for free to practice on is needed.... hmm how times have changed ..used to struggle finding a paid one :)
 
I've been using BBF for a long time now, and as has been said at first it takes a bit to get used to, especially if you've been togging for years and not used it.

I HATED it a first, but when I tried to go back to normal after a couple of days with, I just couldn't, it just seamed wrong.

Don't forget if you find it uncomfortable with your thumb stretched out so far to the right you can also swap the AS-ON and * button function around on the 1d4:LOL:
 
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scottthehat said:
just imagine you have the af as normal on the shutter button, you have the camera set to afs(single focus) and a stationary subject (dog) so that would be fine.
But if that dog then runs at you, you will have to change focus modes from single to continues focus(which is on the front of the camera or in menu on lower spec cams) which is a pain and you have missed the pics.
also all the time you have af on the is/vr/os is working.

now imagine you have the camera set to rear button af and keep camera set to afc(continues focus),
dog sits, point camera press rear af button (focuses on dog) take finger off button(same as single point focus) then the dog decideds it wants to run at you(bonus) because you have rear button af selected so no fidling in menus or changing focus modes over just press the rear af button and it will track the dog runing at you.:D
also with using the rear af button it saves the vr/is/os because its only activated on the shutter half press, so as long as you dont press the shutter you will save the vr/is/os wearing out and also running your battery down.
Click to expand...

To track you still need to have AI Servo initiated whether back focus or not? The two situations you explain would be the same for either front/back focus. The important issue relates to seperating the exposure from the focus button.
 
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Gary Coyle said:
Also seperates exposure from focus
Click to expand...

gary has hit it on the nail - When you use the front button and you half press for focus it also locks exposure!! With rear button the two are seperated and you can in AI servo track a moving subject and the exposure is only locked at the time you take the shot.
 
With Back Button, the Exposure isn't locked until full shutter release, rather than having Focus and Exposure locked together.
 
Ploddles said:
With Back Button, the Exposure isn't locked until full shutter release, rather than having Focus and Exposure locked together.
Click to expand...

No. Exposure is locked on a half press of the shutter button.
 
Well if you shoot on manual, exposure isn't an issue (but that's a seperate 'issue'...lol).
I switched to BBF on Friday, did some test-shots and used it for real at an Event on Saturday night and I'm sold. With multiple subjects who tend to move around, you can pick a 'mean' focus point and leave it there while you compose and shoot rather than run the risk of the camera refocussing (on an arm, leg or other appandage) while you're recomposing.
It's like having all the advantages of the camera's AF-system and manual focus at the same time.
 
DemiLion said:
Metering starts on half press, it isn't locked.
Click to expand...

Well just checked my 5DII and half press locks the exposure - there are a few ways to set this up so I guess yours is different to mine.
 
DemiLion said:
How do you expect to meter for manual exposure unless you're using an external device then?
Click to expand...

You only need to meter once - a few ways to do this from handheld to grey card to ettr, and if light is consistet M is easy peasy to use giving very consistent results.
 
EOS_JD said:
You only need to meter once - a few ways to do this from handheld to grey card to ettr, and if light is consistet M is easy peasy to use giving very consistent results.
Click to expand...

Not exactly a great method of metering for sports photography generally though, is it?

And regarding the half shutter press on a 5DMkII- wrong thread.
 
DemiLion said:
How do you expect to meter for manual exposure unless you're using an external device then?
Click to expand...

Sorry - you missed my point - meter normally using the back button as required, set your exposure in 'M' metering mode and leave it there. If you've done it properly and unless the light changes, you don't have to alter anything.

I don't buy the "for fast-moving sports you need auto metering" argument. Stadium lighting stays pretty constant, regardless of what the players are wearing, the exposure remains the same.
If you use it and it works for you fine, but many of my (sorry, my ex-) agency's sports photographers shoot on manual with no issues.
 
so back button works as the half depress does but wihtout exposure

to take the shot you just hit the button and it takes the exposure as soon as you hit the button..in an instant..

and the only advantage is ..your less likely to unpress while tracking?

nope that cant be right :)
 
DemiLion said:
Not exactly a great method of metering for sports photography generally though, is it?
.
Click to expand...

meter off the grass and shoot manual :)
 
cobra_lite said:
you can pick a 'mean' focus point and leave it there while you compose and shoot rather than run the risk of the camera refocussing (on an arm, leg or other appandage) while you're recomposing. It's like having all the advantages of the camera's AF-system and manual focus at the same time.
Click to expand...

you ahvent explained... whats leave it there mean...you keep hold of the back button or press once and it locks on?
 
DemiLion said:
Not exactly a great method of metering for sports photography generally though, is it?
Click to expand...

Why? If the light is consistent so long as you have a good exposure what's the problem what way you do it? Sure if light is changing then you may have to have a couple of readings to switch back and forward or use Av/Tv but not sure what you mean?

DemiLion said:
And regarding the half shutter press on a 5DMkII- wrong thread.
Click to expand...

True but I thought the AI Servo was pretty consistent across the range of Canon cameras accepted that the 1 series are more complex (I have used a 1DII and a 1DIII too). May be the way it's set up as I say there are a number of options to set it up.
 
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duplicate
 
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KIPAX said:
you ahvent explained... whats leave it there mean...you keep hold of the back button or press once and it locks on?
Click to expand...

Use the back button to focus on a subject, press and release it, focus remains on subject, move the camera so the subject moves to the left or right of the frame, fire the shutter, you have just shot your subject off centre.

Of course this is only any use for stationary subjects, great for shooting managers in dug out etc, etc where you want your subject "off centre" in the frane without having to rely on cropping him off centre in post.

I suppose its a bit like moving your actual focus point using the multi selector but this method uses the more accurate and reliable centre focus point (if thats what youve got selected)
 
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I used to use back-button focussing and then decided to go back and focus using the shutter release. I just configure the back button to lock focus. With wildlife or other stuff I do use BBF.

Here's my reasons:

1) In very cold weather, grabbing the camera and stretching out my hand to reach the back button was really hurting my hand. Now I can hold my camera very loosely - much more comfortable.

2) I can grab the camera quickly and just shoot without worrying about where my thumb is, if I've missed the back button in my rush. I'm much quicker on the draw now!

3) I think the D3 had a problem with the back button where it wasn't always engaging properly. Also the vertical back button on the D3/D3s is not very prominent and hard to feel.

It works for me on the whole, and I also know of some excellent football photographers who do the same.

One issue I do have now is with manual focussing - it's more difficult as you have to remember to hold down the back button to lock first.

Ben
 
one of the big advantages of the bbf in footy and [i must say have not mastered it yet] is that say a player is about to shoot in goal mouth you focus on him when it has locked move camera postion so that he is not in center of frame and you can then [hopefully] get the goalie saving or missing the ball [hope that makes sence]
 
I should add I don't know about Canons, but not all Nikons can be configured the way I described - only the higher end bodies.

So possibly with anything other than a pro body BBF is a better option.
 
Gary Coyle said:
Of course this is only any use for stationary subjects, great for shooting managers in dug out etc, etc where you want your subject "off centre" in the frane without having to rely on cropping him off centre in post.

I suppose its a bit like moving your actual focus point using the multi selector
Click to expand...

Thats exactly what i do.. have been using that methos for at least a year or more and am quite quick and reliable at it.. so bbf not much use on that point... :) not on a camera like the mkIV when its just as easy
 
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KIPAX said:
Thats exactly what i do.. have been using that methos for at least a year or more and am quite quick and reliable at it.. so bbf not much use on that point... :) not on a camera like the mkIV when its just as easy
Click to expand...
OK then, how about it seperating focus from exposure, great if your subject is running in and out of shadows as it meters for every single press of the shutter button unlike just using the shutter which locks exposure on the first shutter release.

Also aviods the "light finger" where you use the half press method on the shutter button to focus but you for whatever reason you lose the required pressure to keep focussing.

For me personally using BBF was the single biggest factor in my keeper rate (in focus) going up massivly.
 
like you said earlier tony best find a game or your dog racing round the park 1st 15mins use it as you do now and 2nd 15 mins use it with af controled by back button and shutter controled with front and see how you go, could not tell which pre set it is.
 
Gary Coyle said:
OK then, how about it seperating focus from exposure, great if your subject is running in and out of shadows as it meters for every single press of the shutter button unlike just using the shutter which locks exposure on the first shutter release.

Also aviods the "light finger" where you use the half press method on the shutter button to focus but you for whatever reason you lose the required pressure to keep focussing.
Click to expand...

hmm, now we are getting there:)

Important game this aft (english college semi final) important game tue night accy v burtion and a u16 cup final thur night.. back to accy sat.. so if no booking sunday might nip to pub league footy and try it out.. or see if any rugby about on fri
 
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