Bet the use of this upsets some

StephenM

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For snapshots I use a digital camera, always set on aperture priority. As the viewfinder is electronic, I can see when the exposure needs adjustment (most of the time with a 14mm lens when there's sky in the picture - it's a full frame camera) and turn the exposure compensation dial.

My more serious photography uses film cameras without meters, and does include church interiors where the light level isn't very high. My Sekonic spot meter won't give a reading in these conditions, and I either have to fall back on the white handkerchief method* or use my Lunasix. In this situation I can't turn the light on:), and need to use a more sensitive meter.

* Take a reading from a white handerchief which reflects more light than the dark wood pews and adjust the reading.
 
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Phil V said:
I think you mean it makes it easier for the way you shoot - OTOH I kinda agree with Bob, I can shoot consistently much quicker in A mode and having compared my Raw's to a few M shooters I'm very confident that my way works better (not just for me)

I don't want to let the camera tell me what to do I DECIDE on DOF, shutter etc, perhaps that is the difference between a photographer and a shutter release presser

.
 

StephenM

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That puts me as a shutter release presser rather than a photographer then, as I always use my large format camera in aperture priority mode (aka I always use f/16 and set the shutter speed accordingly). It works for me.

Personally I think that if there is a difference - a meaningful difference - between a shutter release presser and a photographer it lies in the photographer knowing where to position the camera to achieve the best composition.
 

TheBigYin

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Personally I think that if there is a difference - a meaningful difference - between a shutter release presser and a photographer it lies in the photographer knowing where to position the camera to achieve the best composition.
ah, but that's the ART of photography... not everyone subscribes to that being "a thing" :rolleyes:
 

StephenM

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Personally I think that if there is a difference - a meaningful difference - between a shutter release presser and a photographer it lies in the photographer knowing where to position the camera to achieve the best composition.
And, since you're here Mark, I'll add "knowing how to arrange the subject to achieve the best composition". Which shows how I can be a tad blind to other genres of photography, in that I missed out still life.
 

AndrewFlannigan

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Why don't we all just say we like taking pictures and when presented with pictures taken by others say "I like" or "I don't like"? Why this urge to turn it into a urination contest?
 
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Phil V said:
I think you mean it makes it easier for the way you shoot - OTOH I kinda agree with Bob, I can shoot consistently much quicker in A mode and having compared my Raw's to a few M shooters I'm very confident that my way works better (not just for me)

I don't want to let the camera tell me what to do I DECIDE on DOF, shutter etc, perhaps that is the difference between a photographer and a shutter release presser

.
By your own admission you don’t understand a histogram so I’m not sure if M mode is really for you either.

I have an idea. Why don’t you put some of your best landscapes up against the best of mine and some of your best portraits up against the best of @Phil V and we can see for ourselves where we are all going so horribly horribly wrong.
 
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I have a light meter app on my phone but I rarely need it because there's no point 99.9% of the time.
 
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@CanNik I'll show you mine if you show me yours.

All of these were taken using live view and without a light meter. Modern camera's have very good light meters in them. These have all sold commercially. How you use what you use doesn't upset me - but the pugnacious tone in this thread as well as your admission about not knowing about histograms - and by extension that will mean curves/levels does vex me.

_DSC8535 by Stephen Taylor, on Flickr

_DSC2252 (1) by Stephen Taylor, on Flickr

_DSC5516 by Stephen Taylor, on Flickr

_DSC5603 by Stephen Taylor, on Flickr

_DSC2028 by Stephen Taylor, on Flickr

_DSC3857 by Stephen Taylor, on Flickr
 
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I don't want to let the camera tell me what to do I DECIDE on DOF, shutter etc, perhaps that is the difference between a photographer and a shutter release presser
If you fully understand how a camera works, you will realise you can do all that without using full manual mode.

I don't use full auto mode so I don't let the camera decide for me either. I understand how my camera works, and how to use aperture/shutter/manual modes to achieve the results I'm looking for.

I'm getting the impression that as an old school pro you're of the opinion that you cant be a pro/good photographer unless you use manual, and everyone else is a shutter release presser.
To be honest, you sound like a bit of a dinosaur with your fixed opinions and apparent reluctance to move with the times, and we all know what happened to the dinosaurs. :)
 
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If you fully understand how a camera works, you will realise you can do all that without using full manual mode.

I don't use full auto mode so I don't let the camera decide for me either. I understand how my camera works, and how to use aperture/shutter/manual modes to achieve the results I'm looking for.

I'm getting the impression that as an old school pro you're of the opinion that you cant be a pro/good photographer unless you use manual, and everyone else is a shutter release presser.
To be honest, you sound like a bit of a dinosaur with your fixed opinions and apparent reluctance to move with the times, and we all know what happened to the dinosaurs. :)
I am still waiting for some images from @CanNik

Ting a ling a ling...
 
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SFTPhotography
said
your admission about not knowing about histograms - and by extension that will mean curves/levels does vex me.


Hmmmmm did I say, I don't know about histograms, show me, I thought I said I don't use them

Also get YOUR facts right many including your post has nothing to do with MY original post, others started the mine is better than yours just as you have, perhaps you should stick to my original post as should others.

I bought this new, yes when it first came out and STILL use it today, I use it when using a 10 stopper, saves constantly removing and attaching it to meter.

I use both incident and reflective metering depending on what I am imaging, I bet there are photographers today who don't even know what it is, I bought it from the Camera shop in Aldershot in 1973, I could not afford it all at once and paid 10s a week that is 10 shillings, last year I bought a mint Euromaster 2
 
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SFTPhotography
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your admission about not knowing about histograms - and by extension that will mean curves/levels does vex me.


Hmmmmm did I say, I don't know about histograms, show me, I though I said I don't use them

Also get YOUR facts right many including your post has nothing to do with MY original post
So can you please explain why if you do know about histograms why you wouldn't use them to judge your exposure.

How about some pictures at least.
 
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By your own admission you don’t understand a histogram so I’m not sure if M mode is really for you either.

I have an idea. Why don’t you put some of your best landscapes up against the best of mine and some of your best portraits up against the best of @Phil V and we can see for ourselves where we are all going so horribly horribly wrong.
Stupid
 
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Do me a favor ST Photography show me where I said

your admission about not knowing about histograms
 
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please explain why if you do know about histograms why you wouldn't use them to judge your exposure
I'm a fan of ETTR and the use of blinkies as they tell me where something is blown, histograms only tell me that something somewhere is blown, and often the blown area doesn't matter so just knowing there is one isn't of use; that's why I don't use them - quite why the OP doesn't I suspect we'll never know

Oh and I doubt you'll see any photos soon either :D

And maybe I'm wrong, but in your lovely night-time shots Steve, how would a handheld meter work for those from 400 yards away? Its not like someone could run all over the village and mountain phoning back meter readings is it? Or could they if they had a fit assistant ??? :D

Dave
 
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Do me a favor ST Photography show me where I said

your admission about not knowing about histograms
See below


I’m happy with the way I work out exposure. Clearly so are you. So great.

I would though suggest you learn about histograms and the different ones for Red, Green and Blue as they’re a fundamental part of a digital photography workflow from exposure to how you process.


No thanks, I have shot everything from weddings to sports and my customers from individuals to magazines and publications are happy without my knowing, but then it is a personal choice, and I can still shoot images without metering, as we did in the days before built in meters.

I also use non AF lenses, I suppose people will say that is out too, just like vinyl is dead, oh; or is it :)

And I use THESE (Cross) to write, you know, that thing we did before texting :)


View attachment 252129
"are happy without my knowing".

I do think we are being taken for a ride on this...
 
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Nod

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I'm a fan of ETTR and the use of blinkies as they tell me where something is blown, histograms only tell me that something somewhere is blown, and often the blown area doesn't matter so just knowing there is one isn't of use; that's why I don't use them - quite why the OP doesn't I suspect we'll never know

Oh and I doubt you'll see any photos soon either :D

And maybe I'm wrong, but in your lovely night-time shots Steve, how would a handheld meter work for those from 400 yards away? Its not like someone could run all over the village and mountain phoning back meter readings is it? Or could they if they had a fit assistant ??? :D

Dave
ETTR is a good technique and yes I use the blinkies if I have clipped ;) But all Blinkies do is tell you what you've clipped - the histogram lets you judge the whole exposure and if its a dud or good one.

With modern camera's and high dynamic range sensors you can probably get several exposures that fit the dynamic range of the sensor, particularly in a low contrast scene. What the histogram lets you see is how far to the right or left it is and if you are losing details in the colour (think about red poppies in poppy fields).

I wouldn't know how a light meter would work for this. I use center weighted metering on the camera and check the histogram in live view when checking focus. It can be a bit out once the shutter speeds crack on past a couple of seconds but a quick check of the file once exposed lets you see all and if you need to re expose. If I was shooting studio I might see it differently but I only ever shoot pictures like the ones I posted and never found any Nikon digital camera's basic metering system wanting.

ETTR is something I do - your signal to noise ratio improves the more you move right along the histogram - but with modern cameras noise is much less of an issue than it used to be - so I try get it right with a little room on the right and a bit more room on the left. I expose towards the right, rather than to the right. Again sometimes, even using filters and a D810 you only really get one optimal shutter speed for the scene that neither blocks what you wouldn't want blocked and doesn't clip. Some blacks in the darkest area's are fine and good - but blown whites are almost never good (different in cityscapes where some pixels will go to 255, 255, 255)
 
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I don't want to let the camera tell me what to do I DECIDE on DOF, shutter etc, perhaps that is the difference between a photographer and a shutter release presser
No it isn't.

A photographer is someone with a vision. A way of looking at the world. How much they let the camera decide on teh technical aspects matters very little. There are lots of camera operators who are anal in their attention to the details of exposure and DoF who will never make an interesting picture as long as they have a hole in their arse.

But give a point and press camera to a kid who's knows bog all about the exposure triangle or any of that guff and I'll bet the chances of a good picture or two will be pretty high.

Why? Because children PLAY. And creativity is only a refined form or play. Too many adults are scared of playing because much of the time it results in failure. Any artist will tell you that failure is inevitable if you are to make creative leaps.

I expect your retort will be that anyone can make a good picture by chance if they take enough photos. The old millions of monkeys sat at typewriters thing. Sure. But can they make intersting pictures consistently? The key thing that creative people do is recognise when chance has done something interesting and develop on it.

Here endeth my rant.
 
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Phil V said:
I think you mean it makes it easier for the way you shoot - OTOH I kinda agree with Bob, I can shoot consistently much quicker in A mode and having compared my Raw's to a few M shooters I'm very confident that my way works better (not just for me)

I don't want to let the camera tell me what to do I DECIDE on DOF, shutter etc, perhaps that is the difference between a photographer and a shutter release presser

.
So when you find a nice landscape scene, how do you decide what aperture, iso and shutter to use? Can you set all three without checking anything and get a perfect image? Or do you use your light meter and transfer those settings to the camera?
 
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"I can still shoot images without metering, as we did in the days before built in meters." - said the OP

Didn't built-in meters become popular in the 50s ??? Just how old is the OP ???

Dave
The first ones wasn't very reliable, didn't measure through the lensand angle of view/coverage could be a bit of a guess game. It took a lot of experience to get to know how they where affected by different scenes and contrasts. The incident meter was what ensured consistent exposures for decades after the built in meters saw the light of day another popular instrument was the spot meter favored by the Zonies as it enabled them to measure and control contrast.
 
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Phil V said:
I think you mean it makes it easier for the way you shoot - OTOH I kinda agree with Bob, I can shoot consistently much quicker in A mode and having compared my Raw's to a few M shooters I'm very confident that my way works better (not just for me)

I don't want to let the camera tell me what to do I DECIDE on DOF, shutter etc, perhaps that is the difference between a photographer and a shutter release presser

.
Tell me in simple terms how shooting in aperture priority doesn’t allow me to control DoF
And quit with the bullying because you’re beginning to look like a proper knob.
 
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"I can still shoot images without metering, as we did in the days before built in meters." - said the OP

Didn't built-in meters become popular in the 50s ??? Just how old is the OP ???

Dave
It’s difficult to tell, he used pre decimal currency post decimalisation and he wants to play the victim whilst randomly attacking people who disagree with him.

My guess is that he’s banned within a month or he’ll get fed up and leave of his own accord.
 
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It’s difficult to tell, he used pre decimal currency post decimalisation and he wants to play the victim whilst randomly attacking people who disagree with him.

My guess is that he’s banned within a month or he’ll get fed up and leave of his own accord.
He’s 61 - I checked the user profile.

I’m still eagerly awaiting some pictures.
 

nandbytes

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I’m happy with the way I work out exposure. Clearly so are you. So great.

I would though suggest you learn about histograms and the different ones for Red, Green and Blue as they’re a fundamental part of a digital photography workflow from exposure to how you process.
Only use histograms when I have time to do so for example with landscapes. Even then it's the last check I do to make sure I am not blowing anything which I generally don't just going by EVF.
 
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