Buying a medium format camera

foodpoison said:
Body and WLF on MXV for £99 in Exc condition.

Has anyone used MXV before?
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I've bought all my MF gear from mxv - i've only good things to say about them.

email they might not be too hot on, but there are such things as telephones that are fairly abundant nowadays. every purchase i've telephoned them, had very prompt answering, they've described the item to me over the phone with it sat in front of them - delivery excellent.

Whilst they might not post images of their kit for sale like some other sites (which sometimes post library pictures and not the actual item anyway) their service is very good.
 
foodpoison said:
Also, how come most of the standard lenses are f/1.9 etc? :shrug:
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:shrug: don't know

But at a guess it is down to cost.

A 50mm f1.8 35mm lens, or 80mm f2.8 MF lens, is a realtively simple creature to make and can be stuck on a camera, sold to joe public and you can make excelent images with them.

But as lens get faster ie f1.4, f1.2 or f1.0 then the tolerences for making these lens becomes far greater in order to get a good image out of them. So the cost of design and manufacture goes up. Stick one of those on a body and it would price the combination out of the reach of big chunk of the market.

Like I say bit of a guess really :thinking:
 
1*(1.4)^0 = 1
1*(1.4)^1 = 1.4
1*(1.4)^2 = 1.96

So f/1.8 lenses don't have a perfectly linear aperture, or have rounding errors on their side or just lie - which is why you see older systems that have odd looking aperture numbers. Besides, apertures don't have to be represented in stops, it just makes life easier for quick calculations.
Use http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html to work out depth of fields. You might have to find film data sheets to calculate your own circles of confusion just to make sure they're not using bizarre numbers for their film estimations.
 
Knikki said:
Not sure on the Aperature side because normally when you see comaprisons between MF and 35mm it is the focal length that is quoted, so 50mm MF lens = 28mm, 35mm lens.

As for the aperature, most 6x6 and larger format MF lens have a smaller maximum aperature like f4 because the cost of making faster aperature lens would be sky high.

But because the whole lens is bigger than a 35mm counter part I would think that at f4, it would be like using a 35mm lens at say f2.8 (guess I could be wrong) because if I use my lenses at f4 it certainly throws the background out of focus.
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Thank you .. I guess the best way to find out is to get a hold of a MF camera and give it a shot :shrug:



foodpoison said:
It's been fantastic, hasn't it :)

as far as metering goes, it's exactly the same as 35mm I would assume, simply because handheld lightmeters don't have a medium format setting.

Also, if you think about the whole depth of field thing on digital compacts. They say "f/2.8-f/6" lens, but in actual fact a hell of a lot more is in focus, more like f/16-f/32. That's because the sensor is super small. I would say just as a completely uneducated guess that f/4 on MF would be similar to as someone said, f/2.8 on 35mm
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Fantastic is an understatement (y)

I had this thread book-marked since you started it. I wanted to take my sweet time to read through it to learn about MF cameras .. and you sure hit most of the stuff that puzzled me too.

The only thing holding me back from jumping into this, at this time, is that I am going back home for a visit soon .. and I will see what I can find on the 2nd-hand market there. Or better yet, I may find old stock Hassies going for dirt cheap :shrug:. If not, then I will get something as has been recommended here.

So, and again, a BIG thank you to you and all on this very educational thread.


Blapto said:
1*(1.4)^0 = 1
1*(1.4)^1 = 1.4
1*(1.4)^2 = 1.96

So f/1.8 lenses don't have a perfectly linear aperture, or have rounding errors on their side or just lie - which is why you see older systems that have odd looking aperture numbers. Besides, apertures don't have to be represented in stops, it just makes life easier for quick calculations.
Use http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html to work out depth of fields. You might have to find film data sheets to calculate your own circles of confusion just to make sure they're not using bizarre numbers for their film estimations.
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Thank you for explaining that .. but I am zilch / zero / sifr at the science of photography :( .. I wish I was able to spend more time to learn this .. may be in due course :shrug: ...

I figure I will give this a try, as it has been one of those things that I've always ached to have a go at.
 
A lot of my lecturers say to me, "Just go to the library. The internet is rubbish"

And then I see this thread and think "F&*K BOOKS!" ;)

Generally I'm quite good at the science of photography, most stuff makes sense to me if I read about it enough.

Everything I know about photography is from sitting and obsessing about it :p
I could probably become a mechanic after perhaps 2 months of sitting on the computer obsessing about it :p

I've been thinking. When I'm at university, I might not be able to afford film, and all the extras that come with medium format.

I think this camera that I buy will get a few months of use and then will sit on the shelf until I'm home from uni.
Well worth it :D
 
Knikki said:
But because the whole lens is bigger than a 35mm counter part I would think that at f4, it would be like using a 35mm lens at say f2.8 (guess I could be wrong) because if I use my lenses at f4 it certainly throws the background out of focus.
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I'd go with that.
If I shoot a portrait with 35mm and then 6x6 with lenses offering the same field of view, which isn't the same as focal length, (that would mean using a 28mm on the 35 and 50 on the 6x6) and print both at the same size, I'd have to stop down the 6x6 lens between 1 - 2 stops to get a similar dof.
 
there is a M645 J with 80 mm lens and WLF for 125£ at ffordes. A long lens ( with some dust, which possibly would not affect photos much ) is at 35£. I nearly got it; but bought a ETRS + 75 mm for 145£ from mifsud

There is another M645 J + 80 mm + prism finder + wlf for 205 at Professional film direct. Without the prism finder, it would be 30 - 40 £ cheaper, I guess.

This is what I had been doing for the last few days
 
Do photography at uni and they'll pay for all your chemicals I bet.
 
Kev M said:
Do photography at uni and they'll pay for all your chemicals I bet.
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I don't want to do photography at uni. I don't see the point.
I can do photography now, I'd rather do something more broad.

So I'm doing a 2 year HND in Advertising and Media Communication at Southampton Solent followed by a 1 year BA(Hons) top up in Integrated Promotional Media (y)

Photography (in still or video form) makes up quite a big section of it, so it's cool :)

And I should effin hope they pay for all the chemicals! £3000 a year in tuition fees and they won't pay my chemicals?!
 
foodpoison said:
And I should effin hope they pay for all the chemicals! £3000 a year in tuition fees and they won't pay my chemicals?!
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What are you crying about then ya big baby just go and buy an effin camera and worry about the money later. Like I said, learn to love your overdraft. The economy will never recover if people keep waiting and saving!:LOL:

This financial tip was bought to you by the Bank of Bad Credit.
 
foodpoison said:
So I'm doing a 2 year HND in Advertising and Media Communication at Southampton Solent followed by a 1 year BA(Hons) top up in Integrated Promotional Media
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Southampton Solent still has traditional wet darkrooms so you should be able to arrange to use them.

Last week I spoke to Stephen Brigdale who is the course Leader for BA (Hons) Photography at Southampton Solent.

Seems like a nice chap. Seek him out when you are there, I'm sure he could help you out.



Steve.
 
Kev M said:
What are you crying about then ya big baby just go and buy an effin camera and worry about the money later. Like I said, learn to love your overdraft. The economy will never recover if people keep waiting and saving!:LOL:

This financial tip was bought to you by the Bank of Bad Credit.
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Haha I haven't even got a student loan yet!
 
Get a job in a chemical company doing research. Noone ever asks why your ordering stuff....

Just kidding, I got the purchasing guy at my work to buy some metol and hydroquinone in for me and I'll square up with them.
Then again, I'm still waiting to process my first film. The one I had in my Chinon didn't wind on (yes I am an idiot).

Got 50g of Metol sitting at work for me. That should be enough for about 25L of K-76. The only real problem is the sulphites. You need loads of that for it, but I recon I should be able to get some from a supplier rather than Alfa Aesar.

If you like I could ship you off a litreof my developing and fixing chemicals to try when I get round to brewing some up :)

PS I realise this post has been a tangent, but I too have been flitting in and out of this thread. Not read it all though. I know if I read it all and find out about MF cameras, I'm going to end up wanting one. :D
 
koomber said:
Get a job in a chemical company doing research. Noone ever asks why your ordering stuff....

Just kidding, I got the purchasing guy at my work to buy some metol and hydroquinone in for me and I'll square up with them.
Then again, I'm still waiting to process my first film. The one I had in my Chinon didn't wind on (yes I am an idiot).

Got 50g of Metol sitting at work for me. That should be enough for about 25L of K-76. The only real problem is the sulphites. You need loads of that for it, but I recon I should be able to get some from a supplier rather than Alfa Aesar.

If you like I could ship you off a litreof my developing and fixing chemicals to try when I get round to brewing some up :)

PS I realise this post has been a tangent, but I too have been flitting in and out of this thread. Not read it all though. I know if I read it all and find out about MF cameras, I'm going to end up wanting one. :D
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That was like my first year secondary school physics teacher trying to explain to me Einstein's theory of relativity :thinking: haha
 
Long and the short of it: I have the means and the can do attitude (well, a can't be bothered with my work attitude) to make my own processing chemicals. If anyone is willing to take a chance on a roll of film, I'll send you a litre to try out :).

That being said, I'd wait untill I've tried them first :D
 
Just bought a near mint Mamiya RB67 Pro S with WLF, 90mm C and 120 Back plus 50mm C & 180mm C lenses in a metal outfit case for £400

Now although I doubt I will use it too often, I will enjoy it when I do.

Bit of a shock though was the price of what I need to process the films. Comes to about £70, should never of given all my darkroom kit away!
 
Well I've got a tank and I've got a digital thermometer.

Changing bag is about £20
Dev is about £5
Stop (i'll get some dilute hydrochloric acid from work
Fix is about £6
500 ml measuring jug is about £6
3 storage bottles are £10
Film clips per pair £5 (£10)
Force film washer £15

postage is about £7

Actually works out at just under £80 :p

I thought you worked in bleddy Jessops, you should know what this stuff costs! :LOL:
 
well you could knock those last three items on the head, that's halved it allready...

storage bottles - drink more milk
film clips - bulldog clips 2p for a million or free if you pinch em
force film washer :thinking:
a measuring jug is like 99p from asda

are you just doing b/w
 
EdBray said:
Well I've got a tank and I've got a digital thermometer.

Changing bag is about £20
Dev is about £5
Stop (i'll get some dilute hydrochloric acid from work
Fix is about £6
500 ml measuring jug is about £6
3 storage bottles are £10
Film clips per pair £5 (£10)
Force film washer £15

postage is about £7

Actually works out at just under £80 :p

I thought you worked in bleddy Jessops, you should know what this stuff costs! :LOL:
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Changing bag
Measuring Jug from Asda 99p for 12
Dev stop and fix total to around £15
Storage bottles, just wash out milk cartons and then change them over occassionally
Film clips - pegs, paperclips, bulldog clips, etc
Force film washer? Isn't that a tube with a thing that attaches the tube to the end?
Just need a tray tipped slightly so the flow of water is constant. Done!
So totals to £35 ish :)
 
EdBray said:
Well I've got a tank and I've got a digital thermometer.

Changing bag is about £20
Dev is about £5
Stop (i'll get some dilute hydrochloric acid from work
Fix is about £6
500 ml measuring jug is about £6
3 storage bottles are £10
Film clips per pair £5 (£10)
Force film washer £15

postage is about £7

Actually works out at just under £80 :p

I thought you worked in bleddy Jessops, you should know what this stuff costs! :LOL:
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I do! It costs a fortune!
Hence why you don't spend tonnes on 'photography jugs' and 'photography funnels' and go to asda and buy exactly the same thing for £5 less!
 
If you have a Patterson system 4 tank, its designed to take water in the middle of the funnel, which then rises through the spiral of film and out over the lip of the tank.
Just leave the tap running = constant flow of clean water over the film.
Its the dogs provided you can get 20 degrees out of the tap :)
 
joxby said:
If you have a Patterson system 4 tank, its designed to take water in the middle of the funnel, which then rises through the spiral of film and out over the lip of the tank.
Just leave the tap running = constant flow of clean water over the film.
Its the dogs provided you can get 20 degrees out of the tap :)
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I don't, I have a Jobo Tank, always preferred them.

20 degrees isn't important for washing provided you take the temp down gradually to the ambient water temperature. Okay it takes a little longer at 10 degrees or less, but not really a problem.

I used to dev, stop and fix at 20 degrees, then take the temp down by 2 degrees about every minute with a tank full of water which I agitate manually, once I got to the ambient temperature i would let it wash with a force washer for about 20 minutes (but I was not on a meter then :nono:) never had a problem and my negs were always clean. The wedding shot I scanned from a 6 x 6 negative and posted today was processed by me just short of 16 years ago, and it is still in great condition. (okay, this was processed and washed at 38 degrees).
 
Do you really need to wash that long? I just do the fill it 3 times thing with 5, 10 and 20 inversions.
 
Kev M said:
Do you really need to wash that long? I just do the fill it 3 times thing with 5, 10 and 20 inversions.
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Ask me in another 20 years :LOL:

When I was at Art college in the late 70s you would get a rollicking if you took the film out before it had had 30 minutes in running water. I have always washed films since for a minimum of 20 minutes
 
EdBray said:
Ask me in another 20 years :LOL:
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LOL. That's about it. You just can't over-wash film or prints at all. Many many years after the event with insufficient washing, mysterious yellow or brown stains can start appearing on prints. I see it all the time with old prints I get for restoration.
 
EdBray said:
Just bought a near mint Mamiya RB67 Pro S with WLF, 90mm C and 120 Back plus 50mm C & 180mm C lenses in a metal outfit case for £400
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Great price for that lot! (y)
 
EdBray said:
I don't, I have a Jobo Tank, always preferred them.

20 degrees isn't important for washing provided you take the temp down gradually to the ambient water temperature. Okay it takes a little longer at 10 degrees or less, but not really a problem.
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.....well when I say 20.......:LOL:

I've only used system 4, so I can't imagine faffing about with force washers and tilted trays, you should take another look at them, maybe tank tech has moved on since you first fell out with patterson, I dunno.
Water meters are a real issue.....probably.....I've thought about it usually when filling the pond up, washing the car or developing, fortunately we don't have one :), I think 20 mins is about right.
Heck, I've never needed a changing bag either, though summer time makes room prep a lengthier process.
That's a great photo btw, cliche, but still cool..:D
 
He he I'm on a water meter here so it's definitely rinse and empty the tank a few times (though more than Ilford recommend) rather than leave the tap running for 30 minutes.
 
Freester said:
He he I'm on a water meter here so it's definitely rinse and empty the tank a few times (though more than Ilford recommend) rather than leave the tap running for 30 minutes.
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So am I, but as I'm the manager for 5 water treatment works I'll take it in to one of them and let it run all day :LOL: it only gets recycled back into the works anyway (y) and I can do it at the cleanest pre-chemical added stage as well, so lovely clean filtered water. :clap:
 
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