Canon 30D released

SDK^ said:
The 20D and 30D are not tweaked 10D's - even the 20D is significantly different to the 10D.
I think in general people expect too much from the next camera upgrade, the 30D fixes are few grumbles with the 20D. What else do you really need ?!?!
Click to expand...

Maybe, but I think something that would be more a cut above the D200 (on paper atleast) is what people where hoping for. Whether thats right or not I dont know, but people are no doubt a bit spoilt with regards to what their expectations are of Canon, usually bringing out something groundbreaking, and then releasing something that TBH isnt that exciting is bound to get a subdued response.
 
It's the same spec as the D200 but it's cheaper. There's not much more they could do at that price level. Perhaps up the megapixels but who cares? We've already establisjed that 8.2MP is fine. They could increase the buffer but then they might start to compete with the 1Dn.

All in all, I think this is the perfect release for Canon. It competes with Nikon, addresses some of the 20D's issues and doesn't **** off people who've invested in a 20D. Good work Canon, I say.
 
True, so - anyone got one yet:)

Only joking, partially atleast, anyone put in a pre-order? Or are people waiting for reviews of the production model.
 
Believe its the same Digic II as used in the 20D and 350D.
 
Perhaps we're being a bit harsh. If I was in the market for a first DSLR I'd go straight for the 30D with that spec. Because it doesn't exactly blow the 20D out of the water is no real reason to knock it - the improvements are valid useful ones. How many Nikon D70 owners feel a really pressing need to upgrade to the D200?
 
Sorry - sensor, I was thinking processor (doh) - sensor is 8.2MP, and yes the 350D is an 8.2 but only has an effective 8MP. They do all use the same processor though.
 
If i was in the market for the best i could afford at the moment, and was choocing 20d and 30d price range (assuming Canon kit already) i would definitely spring for the 30D, but its not a worthwhile upgrade if you already have a 20D !
 
It sounds as though most of it could be achieved in software too, i.e. a firmware update.
 
speaking as someone who hasn't got a dSLR then it seems quite a goot set up. certainly what the 20D should have been those years ago. again like the 1d..N its not an upgrade more an update. as far as I can tell there are only a few improvements; bigger lcd (canon standard), slightly bigger buffer, picture styles (canon standard) and in VF ISO... the rest could be done with a firmware update as mentioned. the mpix race looks to have ended - at least for the current line up. perhaps canon saw nikon's slight difficulties with a small sensor and held off on making anything more dense in all that pixel pitch stuff. the 30D is quite impressive for what it is. basically a mini 1d..N - with notable bits missing of course but in essence very similar.
the down side? I tried a 20D and didn't like it, maybe I got a duff one but images were pretty naff 80% of the time, AF problem was a real let down, menu system I just didn't like, a long list you have to scroll through - I tried a 350D and its menu is very similar in design to the 1 series layout...so why change it for the mid-range? no idea but I don't like the list view, still a menu doesn't make the images at the end of the day. on the naff images; I was shooting raw and PP-ing to see if it was merely that 'raw softness' you get. alas no. again I compared like for like on a 350D and the 350 was much better image-wise. I returned the poor performing 20D with the hopes that the 'next one' will be significantly improved. again; alas no. well perhaps thats a little harsh - it maybe the tweeks make this camera functionally better but I wasn't over-joyed at the 20D, I have an open mind and I'm not adverse to trying it out if the improvements tweek the handling sufficiently. the 5D cashback is tempting and for sheer out-and-out 'I want one of those' the 1dmkIIN is certainly on the list. I think I'll wait to handle a 30D before making a descision...
pricewise - not happy its being listed as £1099 when in europe its clearly less - if they can give us a fair 5D cashback (300 euros to £200) then why not camera price?
 
Spot metering is not going to be added to a 20D by any firmware upgrade and is seen as a major upgrade by many...so the statement above is incorrect.

I hope you can see where I am coming from with this, it is not a personal attack just an observation of a regularly seen trait. Your difficulties with processing an image from a 20D to look sharp could be down to many things especially as you are a non DSLR owner, have no experience in the processing of raw files and there are many 1000's of other 20D owners that have not got your problem. Sure it could be that you had a "bad one" but it is more likely that you were not skilled enough at the time of using it to be in a position to get the best possible results. The 350D is set up completely differently to compensate for that as it is aimed at the people stepping up from “point and shoots” and so processes the files with different algorithms and settings to aid the transition. The 20D is set up to allow a lot more user input and therefore is nowhere near as forgiving in default mode. Out of the box the 350 will give better results but in the hands of someone who knows their way around it, the 20 files will simply come to life. Its not one of the best selling cameras by chance ;)
 
shiato storm said:
speaking as someone who hasn't got a dSLR then it seems quite a goot set up. certainly what the 20D should have been those years ago. again like the 1d..N its not an upgrade more an update. as far as I can tell there are only a few improvements; bigger lcd (canon standard), slightly bigger buffer, picture styles (canon standard) and in VF ISO... the rest could be done with a firmware update as mentioned. the mpix race looks to have ended - at least for the current line up. perhaps canon saw nikon's slight difficulties with a small sensor and held off on making anything more dense in all that pixel pitch stuff. the 30D is quite impressive for what it is. basically a mini 1d..N - with notable bits missing of course but in essence very similar.
the down side? I tried a 20D and didn't like it, maybe I got a duff one but images were pretty naff 80% of the time, AF problem was a real let down, menu system I just didn't like, a long list you have to scroll through - I tried a 350D and its menu is very similar in design to the 1 series layout...so why change it for the mid-range? no idea but I don't like the list view, still a menu doesn't make the images at the end of the day. on the naff images; I was shooting raw and PP-ing to see if it was merely that 'raw softness' you get. alas no. again I compared like for like on a 350D and the 350 was much better image-wise. I returned the poor performing 20D with the hopes that the 'next one' will be significantly improved. again; alas no. well perhaps thats a little harsh - it maybe the tweeks make this camera functionally better but I wasn't over-joyed at the 20D, I have an open mind and I'm not adverse to trying it out if the improvements tweek the handling sufficiently. the 5D cashback is tempting and for sheer out-and-out 'I want one of those' the 1dmkIIN is certainly on the list. I think I'll wait to handle a 30D before making a descision...
pricewise - not happy its being listed as £1099 when in europe its clearly less - if they can give us a fair 5D cashback (300 euros to £200) then why not camera price?
Click to expand...


Have to say I have had my 20D for about a year and a half and have never had any of the problems that you suggest with images being soft, mine has always been a good solid performer.
 
It seems as if my 350D will fail in ten years if I take 14 frames a day! At my age it will be more than camera shake that is the problem!
 
If I know I'm set right for a shot then my 20D always gives me sharp image. If it doesn't then I know I've done something wrong.

regards
 
Steve said:
Spot metering is not going to be added to a 20D by any firmware upgrade and is seen as a major upgrade by many...so the statement above is incorrect.

I hope you can see where I am coming from with this, it is not a personal attack just an observation of a regularly seen trait. Your difficulties with processing an image from a 20D to look sharp could be down to many things especially as you are a non DSLR owner, have no experience in the processing of raw files and there are many 1000's of other 20D owners that have not got your problem. Sure it could be that you had a "bad one" but it is more likely that you were not skilled enough at the time of using it to be in a position to get the best possible results. The 350D is set up completely differently to compensate for that as it is aimed at the people stepping up from “point and shoots” and so processes the files with different algorithms and settings to aid the transition. The 20D is set up to allow a lot more user input and therefore is nowhere near as forgiving in default mode. Out of the box the 350 will give better results but in the hands of someone who knows their way around it, the 20 files will simply come to life. Its not one of the best selling cameras by chance ;)
Click to expand...

i understand what you're saying and agree in part but I shot raw in the 350D, I know it uses jpeg compression and all the rest of it but forgive me if I believe raw is pretty unprocessed from what ever camera you use, therefore handling seems to be the last thing to judge it, i'm not saying I'm the best in the world ever (hardly! thats laughable to assume that, no one's that egotistical, are they?! I have experience but also much to learn) but I made several A2 prints from 350D images, each one sharp as a pin and sold for quite decent money too. yes the 20D is a different animal but I used the same lenses in lots of situations (24-70, 17-35 and 100-400 plus a couple others I have which I normally use on a 1N with great success) and the results seemed in comparison unimpressive, even after a work-over in PS. I've no doubt its a great camera but I wasn't impressed that after a fair chunk of £ its performance left me wanting, thats all. if I was bothered with persevering I could have probably got it all resolved but that would have taken ages since there were not any more 20D's in my area, tons of hassle and endless repeat explainations at every stage. life is too short. 30D, if canon's QC is up to standards then there'll be no probs.
 
My 20D has only ever given me soft images when I've messed up with the shot, it's always been fantastic.

I can understand a new user feeling a little miffed when picking up a 20 d and comparing jpegs against those from a much cheaper P+S though, the 20D does little to the images unless the parameters are set to allow it as the camera is expected to be used by people who'll process their images where as the P+S cameras tend to brighten and sharpen the images for the wow factor.

Still, i'll keep hold of my 20 than you :whistle2:
 
its a huge leap going from ready to print point/shoots to dslr, i fell over at that hurdle too!
 
i agree, p+s are totally differnt. although not to be discounted, some can do some impressive things. they do over sat,contrast and sharpen but if you wack it all down and adjust levels in PS later you can get some pretty handy results. no match for a dSLR though... :)
 
SDK^ said:
The 20D and 30D are not tweaked 10D's - even the 20D is significantly different to the 10D.
I think in general people expect too much from the next camera upgrade, the 30D fixes are few grumbles with the 20D. What else do you really need ?!?!
Click to expand...

Hmm. For me the 20D has a faster startup time, saves files to the memory card quicker and has better noise handling. Then the 30D has spot metering and er the file names thing. When the 20D arrived a lot of people didn't see the need to upgrade. I'm seeing the same with the 30D.
 
Spoke to a Canon guy today at the Focus exhibit, he said release is within the next 2 weeks.
 
petemc said:
Hmm. For me the 20D has a faster startup time, saves files to the memory card quicker and has better noise handling. Then the 30D has spot metering and er the file names thing. When the 20D arrived a lot of people didn't see the need to upgrade. I'm seeing the same with the 30D.
Click to expand...
Also, apart from the obvious 2mp increase, other useful 20D features include

  • The 20D has true RAW + jpeg support. It can write two separate files to the flash card, one RAW and one JPEG. You can read the jpeg version without special software. The 10D embeds the jpeg in the raw file data so you need special software to extract the jpeg file.
  • ETTL II - distance data used to calulate Flash exposure
  • 1/250 Flash Sync (10D is 1/200)
  • Autofocus on the 20D is faster and more accurate than on the 10D and works in lower light (More sensitive on lenses F2.8 and faster)
  • The built in pop-up flash is higher on the 20D so it clears more lenses and hoods (less chance of dark partial circles at the bottom of the frame).
  • The 20D supports EF-S lenses.
  • 5fs vs 3fps, can be handy in some situations

Whilst the 30D isn't a giant leap from the 10D there are enough new features (imo) to make the upgrade worthwhile (*)

*My guess is that Canon will bring out a replacement for the 30D before the usual 18 month cycle so with that in mind, unless you need lower ISO noise at 800+ immediately then it's probably better waiting.
 
Hmmm those features do seem good. I guess to me it just doesn't have something that makes me want to run out and buy it. Money being the other obvious issue :) Its always like new body, or new lens. I feel like the lens is still a better choice at the moment.
 
Seems quite tempting, especially as that includes VAT.
 
The 30D seems to be hitting the streets now so hopefully we can see prices starting to stabilise.
A few of the dealers seem to be throwing in a 2Gb Sandisk extreme as well as the 512Mb freebie from Canon.
Both Jessops in my town had them in stock on Saturday as kits with std lens - a snip at £1179 !!!!!

I still havent found anywhere cheaper than the earlier post in this thread yet. Anybody used rgb-tech by the way?

Also not seen any reviews posted as yet.

Mark
 
Spoke to a guy at work who's father-in-law owns a shop near Nottingham:-

30d body only £829

30d with 18-55mm £888

30d with 17-85mm £1159
 
I think that makes you our first 30D owner. You'll have to do a write-up! :thumb:
 
mfwild13 said:
Ordered today at £829, should be here Friday morning. Thanks for the link shiato :thumb:
Click to expand...
you're welcome. glad to help out. I had one on order and could have got one in the first shipment but picked up something else instead (I couldn't wait!), well its a decent camear to complement the film one I have ;) :D
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top