Canon 60D

[Raymond Lin]

Plastic body on a XXD series.....backwards step !

 

[woof woof]

Can someone tell me why? Because it has nothing at all to do with build quality or image quality.

 

[Donki]

I'm frankly amazed at the number of people stating that they'd never buy a plastic camera.

This makes no sense at all to me. You guys must be a marketing departments dream.

Still, you pay your money and make your choice.

Well I dont mind a plastic body on a camera at entry level and price, but over a grand no thank you. Also I would say it has alot to do with buld quality alloy is superior to plastic in strengh and feel terms. I also prefer the extra weight in the body, especially when using a heavier lens. Personal preference.

 

[woof woof]

I think most of you are kidding yourselves, but it's your choice to do so.

 

[Donki]

I think most of you are kidding yourselves, but it's your choice to do so.

How is anything I have said in my post "kidding myself", I wouldn't pay over a grand for a plastic camera when the likes of a 40D and 50D can be had for lens than half the price with the IQ being pretty much the same. The only thing you have is HD video, a tilting screen and even more MP cramed in the a sensor the same size. I think your kidding yourself.

 

[trencheel303]

How is anything I have said in my post "kidding myself", I wouldn't pay over a grand for a plastic camera when the likes of a 40D and 50D can be had for lens than half the price with the IQ being pretty much the same. The only thing you have is HD video, a tilting screen and even more MP cramed in the a sensor the same size. I think your kidding yourself.

agreed, and excellent comeback too.

So many people nowadays are just happy to buy crap, on the premise that it can be replaced with more crap when it breaks.

 

[zooxanthellae]

Ive not really got a problem with 'engineering' grade plastics but if your going to replace a expensive mag alloy body with plastic i personally expect plastic prices. Even with the inevitable price reduction its still gonna be a pricey piece of kit for a plastic bodied camera.

 

[redhed17]

Whether you appreciate the benefits of a 'plastic' or alloy body, the fact remains that the 60D body is worst than the camera it replaces. Just like some of the specs are a reduction on what the previous model had.

A camera is supposed to be an improvement on the model it replaces, unless there is a good technical reason, as in the Canon G11 having fewer pixels than the G10 to try and be better in low light. Reducing features is a bad idea and sends out the wrong message, either we don't care if you upgrade or not (or indeed we want you upgrade to a model higher in our range), or we don't have the technology and/or money at the moment to improve. :shrug:

That may not be the case but most people will not see a reduction is specifications as a strategic realignment with a competitor imho.

 

[Lawrence F]

I was waiting with interest to see what Canon would produce to replace the 50D, and if good enough, perhaps upgrade from my 40D. From where I stand:

1) plastic body is a backward step - I upgraded from a 450D only two years ago, mainly for the more solid and larger body; if I wanted the plastic body, I would get the 450D back out of the cupboard :thumbsdown:

2) swivel screen - completely agree with others' comments, this is good for compacts as it adds value, but surely adds nothing more than weight to a DSLR which already has live view :thumbsdown:

3) 9 point AF...?! This is generations old now! If they were all cross-type sensors, perhaps that would impress more :thumbsdown:

4) SD cards?! Almost the proof, if it were needed, that this is an upgrade to the xxxD range. If I were to upgrade to the 60D, I would also need to shell out an extra £xxx in new memory! :thumbsdown:

5) all the above for over £1000 - even if I waited a year, I'd still be expecting to pay over £700!

Why try to fix something that wasn't broken?!

 

[andrewc]

MAybe the powers that be at Canon HQ, saw the proposed 60D specifications and said, this camera is too good for to be the 60D and for the selling price it would have. Someone had a bright idea of introducing a new tier into Canons line up and calling it the 7D.

Then they had to think of a suitable camera that would fit in between the 550D and the 7D and to adjust the features accordingly to make it seem somewhat different.

I'm glad I went for the 7D and didn't wait for the 60D.

 

[Noopz]

I thought I was going to regret buying the 50D I got last month.... glad I worried over nothing.

 

[User Name]

Looks like i will be buying the 7D later on this year then anyway.

wow I was really worried about buying my 7D last week with the 60D meant to be just round the corner but I am glad I went with the 7D as it blows this out the water

Ick, this is a definate downgrade in the XXD series, totally understandable because it will push 40/50D upgraders down the 7D path, there is no way I would go back to a plastic body after my 40D.

Canon have looked at how much money they can screw out of their customer base and realised that a lot of upgraders will go for the 7D, and they have helped them with the decision.

Oh I'm not saying Canon aren't meeting the needs of the market but this will be done with profitability in mind, because of this market reposition I'll be spending somewhere in the region of £400 more for my next body than I would have if the 60D upgrade had been incremental like the 40D>50D.

Basically everyone is a winner apart from my bank balance

FIL has a 7D and it's really nice, it will most likely be my next camera now I have the 17-55mm rather than a second hand 5D

MB

As a 40D user, the xxD line is now dead as far as I'm concerned and my only viable upgrade path is the 7D.

As a 40D owner it looks like the 7D is the new upgrade, shame was I was expecting better for the 60D, especially anywhere near that RRP!

Well, it looks like some people understand what Canon are doing!
It's just a shame about the numbering choice, it does not fill the 50D's shoes, but what else could they have called it? They just ran out of numbers so decided to align the xxD range with Nikon's offerings while at the same time protecting their 7D. This will increase 7D sales, without a doubt.

 

[Donki]

agreed, and excellent comeback too.

So many people nowadays are just happy to buy crap, on the premise that it can be replaced with more crap when it breaks.

Thank you kind sir.

All they had to do in the 60D was simply do the standard MP jump (I would have been happy with what the 50D had), add HD video recording, maybe improved noise reduction and to be honest I would have been more intrested than I am with what they have produced, even then I wouldnt have bought it. It would still have been ahead of the XXXD range and still lacking the ISO perfomance and AF of the 7D. As has been said this is a move to change Canons line up, liek all change it will take a bit of getting used to but we will.

 

[CSB]

Canon aren't stupid, the 60D is a new type of hybrid camera, its aimed at "hybrid" users not specifically photographers. Watch the video crowd jump all over it with its swivel screen and manual audio controls. It will sell like hot cakes, Canon will make more money and the rest of you moaners will just have to get over it I'm afraid.

The replacement for the 50D is the 7D, the 60D is not a replacement, its a new product group.

 

[redhed17]

2) swivel screen - completely agree with others' comments, this is good for compacts as it adds value, but surely adds nothing more than weight to a DSLR which already has live view :thumbsdown:

I don't see the swivel screen as a negative. If it was of a lower resolution as many of the swivel screens have been on DSLRs up to now maybe, but this is one of the highest (if not the highest) LCD resolutions available.

I can't see it adding much weight, but then you'd have to ask Canon about that. :shrug:

You also get the benefit of the screen being protected when folded in to the body.

And if you choose not to swivel it, then it is just like any other screen. :shrug:

The only minor problem with folding screens I can see is the loss of space and maybe losing some buttons and the negative possible impact on the good ergonomics.



At least it is folding from the side, and not the bottom like some Nikon and even the new Sony SLT A55 (not an DSLR I know), now that design is a stupid screen.

 

[Harmless`]

Canon aren't stupid, the 60D is a new type of hybrid camera, its aimed at "hybrid" users not specifically photographers. Watch the video crowd jump all over it with its swivel screen and manual audio controls. It will sell like hot cakes, Canon will make more money and the rest of you moaners will just have to get over it I'm afraid.

The replacement for the 50D is the 7D, the 60D is not a replacement, its a new product group.

You're probably right, but God help those who casually think its a way into video, unless its got a friendly video auto focus ( I do quite like the idea of the swivel screen ***')

 

[CT]

The 60D was bound to disappoint because there's really no need for it, sitting as it is, between two excellent choices in the 50D and the 7D.

The swivelling screen is logical and makes more sense of Live View. Folded against the body in it's normal position you wont even know it's there.

Overall though, a curious offering I have to admit.

 

[woof woof]

"How is anything I have said in my post "kidding myself","

Donki, I'm not having a go at you in particular, you just happen to be in the group who seem to be gnashing their teeth and dismissing this camera as a plastic pile of poo before anyone here has even tried it and that's gotta be a bit strange hasn't it?

I just don't see anything here to get worked up about. It hasn't got a magnesium alloy chassis mostly covered with other stuff, instead it has an aluminium chassis completely covered with other stuff. Well whoopy doo.

Maybe we should reserve judgement until we've at least tried the camera.

 

[Vertigo1]

Well, it looks like some people understand what Canon are doing!

Yes, milking us dry.

For a 40D or 50D user, the only viable upgrade path is now the 7D. With the current used prices of these bodies, you're looking at £7-800 to upgrade!

I think this is what's sticking in the throat of many. Asking a few hundred quid to upgrade to the next model in a series is reasonable but asking £7-800 and giving you no alternative is taking the mick.

 

[buckas]

60D definitely looks like the xxxD replacement/kill off

 

[vaizki]

I think Canon has had disappointing sales for the 1000D as not many first time buyers don't want to buy the lowest entry level model especially since it's not that far to the previous-model xxxD one. Nobody wants to have the WORST Canon, right? So it's natural to aim the xxxD series at the normal consumer market, and offering a parallel series of "upgrade" cameras makes sense for those who want a bit more. Top side LCD, rear control wheel, more fps but still light weight, small size and SD cards. This is the 60D and I wouldn't be surprised if the next camera is a 65D..

This leaves the 7D and 5D2 in the "semi pro / enthusiast market". Cameras that normal consumers wouldn't buy because of size, weight, price, weird connectors everywhere and just too many confusing buttons but still no sports mode.

It makes sense. For Canon at least.. as mentioned by a lot of people, everyone waiting for the 60D will probably buy a 7D (or Nikon!).

The next enthusiast camera will probably have a single digit model number as well.. so

~~~~ The xxD series is dead. Long live the xxxD+ series! ~~~~

 

[Lawrence F]

I don't see the swivel screen as a negative. If it was of a lower resolution as many of the swivel screens have been on DSLRs up to now maybe, but this is one of the highest (if not the highest) LCD resolutions available.

I can't see it adding much weight, but then you'd have to ask Canon about that. :shrug:

You also get the benefit of the screen being protected when folded in to the body.

And if you choose not to swivel it, then it is just like any other screen. :shrug:

The only minor problem with folding screens I can see is the loss of space and maybe losing some buttons and the negative possible impact on the good ergonomics.



At least it is folding from the side, and not the bottom like some Nikon and even the new Sony SLT A55 (not an DSLR I know), now that design is a stupid screen.

Redhed, I don't see the screen as a negative, just can't see how it improves on the current models. The type of person who wants to take self-portraits at parties etc, probably wouldn't want to spend this much on a camera, and would surely be more likely to buy an entry-level DSLR, if not a compact/hybrid?

I once read that Canon puts most of its money and research into the top-spec models (ie 1D/1DS) and then slowly this new technology filters down into the semi-pro and consumer products. So when did you last see a 1D Mk IV with a swivel screen...

 

[Canonite]

Last full price camera I bought was the 40D, from Jessops, when Jessops were good, albeit expensive. I only sold that when I hit on bad times, since replaced with a 30D and aside from the Live View which I found useful I feel there is little to choose between the two. There are differences but are they worth the coin? I dont think so.

My first DSLR was a Nikon D50, I chose it because it felt much more solid and robust than the alternative 350D Canon offering. Just felt like more of a professional tool than the cheap plastic feel of the Canon.
The XXD series of cameras are in my opinion semi pro bodies, it shouldn't need replacing unless you have a dire need for the new features. How many people bought a 50D to replace their 40D? Why?

The only next step i'd be taking from this 30D would be to a 5D MKII or a 1Ds. I just think people get wrapped up in buzzwords and specs without researching whether or not its a beneficial step?

 

[faddy]

well ive been waiting for the 60d for nearly 2 months since my 30d died.. i was umming and aahring about the 550d but instead have ordered my 7d as soon as this was announced.. dont think it appeals to me as i prefer the weight and chunkiness which i feel this 60d wont have.. plus it`ll cost an arm and a leg!

 

[quanta]

the second pic in dpreview looks like an S1 IS or S2 IS in black...
im happy with my 450D.

 

[Canonite]

I forgot to add, I've got the Canon SX1 and the fully articulated screen is very useful. BUT.....that, in my opinion is due to the SX1 having an EVF which looks rubbish. So when i'm using this camera I use it all the time, though it's mostly left in it's normal position.
Only when i'm shooting macros at low level do I unfold the screen and tilt it (saves my back).

I'm not sure it offers any real benefits though on an SLR, and I have to say it is the most flexible screen on any camera.

 

[Flats]

I think this makes reasonable sense. When they introduced the 7D it was in a class of it's own designed to sit between the 1 series and the XXd series. I for one didn't get why you would have a 7D and a 50D series progressing side by side, and for semi-serious photographers it provided some headaches as to whether to get a 50D or a 7D, given the price differential. Basically the xxD line as we knew it, the so-called pro-sumer series, now ends with the 50D. The new pro-sumer line is now the 7D, which in turn will presumably become the 8D. The 60D, and presumably the 70D later on, are now the more expensive and chunkier big brothers to the xxxD series. There appears to be a clear division between the "amateur" series; still highly capable cameras but with the kind of gubbins on that the family photographer will appreciate, and stuff removed that they won't use, like micro-adjust and other stuff.

The cameras for serious enthusiasts are now the 5Dmk2 if you want full frame, and the 7D if you want a crop-factor. Both awesome by all accounts, and I bet the 8D will be amazing, seeing as the 7D was a "first of range" and as such uncharted territory.

Then you have the 1D series and the 1Ds series, both of which have different uses in the field, but both of which you can use to bang in nails should you lose your hammer.

The upgrade path is clearly 40D/50D --> 7D, and the 60D starts a new line. Tell you what though, if you're not too fussed by the latest and greatest innovations, used 40Ds at around 350 quid are mega-deals. Get one while you can!

Jonathan

 

[zooxanthellae]

Bit sneaky though, if the 7d was supposed to be a xxD reshuffle we are certainly paying the price. 60D = a XXXD reshuffle then why is it priced as a XXD replacement without the XXD tech we have grown accustomed to. Maybe I'm missing the bigger corporate picture.

 

[HoppyUK]

Canon have announced the 60D at long last. No great surprises - plastic body, articulating screen, 18MP sensor, HD Video, SDHC cards and the same 9 point auto focus as the 50D

http://www.canon.co.uk/For_Home/Product_Finder/Cameras/Digital_SLR/EOS_60D/

Interesting that you can edit RAW files in camera!

Nobody except the OP seems to have picked up on this, unless I've missed it.

60D allows you to shoot Raw, and post-process them in-camera. You can adjust exposure, white balance, correct CA, distortion and vignetting, apply picture styles and noise reduction, creative effects etc etc, and then save as a JPEG.

In terms of the quality of images you can get straight out of the box, without going near a computer, this is pretty major feature. I don't think any other camera comes near this level of in-camera control. I hope it filters both up and down the Canon range

 

[mid_gen]

Well if no-one buys the 60D it will be Canon with egg on their faces. I suspect, however, that it will sell like hotcakes. 60D isn't the upgrade from the 50D you expected? Get a 7D. It's pretty obvious!

 

[whitewash]

Nobody except the OP seems to have picked up on this, unless I've missed it.

60D allows you to shoot Raw, and post-process them in-camera. You can adjust exposure, white balance, correct CA, distortion and vignetting, apply picture styles and noise reduction, creative effects etc etc, and then save as a JPEG.

In terms of the quality of images you can get straight out of the box, without going near a computer, this is pretty major feature. I don't think any other camera comes near this level of in-camera control. I hope it filters both up and down the Canon range

and then you can print out using the handy print button (has anyone ever used this button? i've never pressed it, will the sky turn into fire?)

 

[Donki]

Nobody except the OP seems to have picked up on this, unless I've missed it.

60D allows you to shoot Raw, and post-process them in-camera. You can adjust exposure, white balance, correct CA, distortion and vignetting, apply picture styles and noise reduction, creative effects etc etc, and then save as a JPEG.

In terms of the quality of images you can get straight out of the box, without going near a computer, this is pretty major feature. I don't think any other camera comes near this level of in-camera control. I hope it filters both up and down the Canon range

Will it not be a little fiddley doing all that with the controls on a camera plus the size of the screen that you can see it on, I dont see this as a replacement to LR for me as I use light room as a library too.

 

[OneTen]

Nobody except the OP seems to have picked up on this, unless I've missed it.

60D allows you to shoot Raw, and post-process them in-camera. You can adjust exposure, white balance, correct CA, distortion and vignetting, apply picture styles and noise reduction, creative effects etc etc, and then save as a JPEG.

In terms of the quality of images you can get straight out of the box, without going near a computer, this is pretty major feature. I don't think any other camera comes near this level of in-camera control. I hope it filters both up and down the Canon range

I dismissed it as another gimmick for the mass consumer market.

and then you can print out using the handy print button (has anyone ever used this button? i've never pressed it, will the sky turn into fire?)

Exactly

 

[birdy961]

(has anyone ever used this button? i've never pressed it, will the sky turn into fire?)

DO NOT press the button, step away from the button, it creates a wormhole and rips through the space time continuim, or prints photo's, I always get the two muddled:shrug:

Looks like there will not be a flood of 2nd hand 50d's anytime soon then.

 

[pearce_jj]

60D allows you to shoot Raw, and post-process them in-camera...In terms of the quality of images you can get straight out of the box, without going near a computer, this is pretty major feature

An interesting idea but likely a technical dead-end IMO - I would guess the camera memory card will probably become just a buffer with shots uploaded to a cloud storage provider in the background when in 3G coverage. That way editing could be performed on an iPad or anything else with a decent sized screen without faffing about with cards and readers.

 

[Matblack]

Is it me or does there seem to be a derth of buttons on this new thing?

Certainly performing Lightroom style functions is going to be tricky with less controls than the 50D

MB

 

[OneTen]

Is it me or does there seem to be a derth of buttons on this new thing?

MB

It may have the button that all my Canons are missing...One that locks the Mode dial.

 

[redhed17]

The type of person who wants to take self-portraits at parties etc, probably wouldn't want to spend this much on a camera, and would surely be more likely to buy an entry-level DSLR, if not a compact/hybrid?

I once read that Canon puts most of its money and research into the top-spec models (ie 1D/1DS) and then slowly this new technology filters down into the semi-pro and consumer products. So when did you last see a 1D Mk IV with a swivel screen...

Swivel screens are not just for taking self portraits, they can be used if the camera is in a position when the viewfinder is hard to reach, the Macro photographer in the wild for example, or for shooting over crowds (I'm not the tallest person ), and I'm sure other situations I can't think of. Why, if it doesn't compromise the underlying camera should a swivel screen not be on a DSLR?

I would say all the manufacturers use the top of their range model to implement the their latest technology and trickle it down, and that is part of the reason the top of the range cameras are so expensive. Those cameras are aimed at professionals who can (or who's company can) afford them, and who's needs are different to the average consumer. Being weather proof is of higher priority that a swivel screen. If the camera is in an odd position then they get paid to get down and dirty if possible, whereas the average person would just not bother.

The XXD series of cameras are in my opinion semi pro bodies, it shouldn't need replacing unless you have a dire need for the new features.

I'd agree about the xxD series being seen as semi pro bodies, though only up until the 60D. And that is the point, it's a step backwards and places the 60D closer to the 550D than the 7D. :bonk:

As I said earlier Canon win either way, they'll get money from people who upgrade to the 60D by offering a camera that is not much of an improvement on the 550D with tech that has not needed much R&D (and is probably been cheaper to produce), or people will upgrade to the 7D. Win win. If they'd offered a better spec'ed 60D they may have been able to tempt more people with the new camera.

One would hope that a company that size would know what they were doing though. Makes you wonder though.

 

[vaizki]

It may have the button that all my Canons are missing...One that locks the Mode dial.

It does, finally.

 

[whitewash]

i also noticed that the 60D has built in wireless speedlite control, which is a nice feature, just a shame there is so much in the 60D that doesnt appeal to me