Canon 7D mk2 owners thread.

iTR uses the metering sensor to direct the AF processor to the next most likely area to which the subject has moved.

Bob
 
Not sure if this has been said already but I downloaded a pdf from canon on the af system it explains it in a lot more detail. I found it very useful
 
Thanks toggerman for your comments.

Toggerman said:
John, I agree with you in that shooting aircraft is the only time I'll use zone AF (although I tend to use all points mode instead) as it works better. With aircraft you typically have a single object on a uniform background and at a distance and focal length that DoF usually doesn't matter, therefore you can focus anywhere on the object and don't need to be so precise. Single point can be difficult to keep on target, especially on fast moving aircraft, so use as many active points as possible.
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For an airshot without anything else in the frame then ok and I take your point, but I had *much* more success with single point plus expansion on the 7D mk1 than I am having on the 7D Mark 2 so far.
I have used a shoulder brace rig for several years and that really helps with panning stability and accuracy. It's like trap shooting.
I found zone AF on the 7D mk1 a bit meh.

Single point with expansion doesn't get distracted during the more dramatic shots with trees, ground, hedges etc


Toggerman said:
Possibly just focus drift with trying to use AI-Servo on a fairly static subject?
Click to expand...

Possible. Will put that down to a one-off anomaly.

Toggerman said:
Do you shoot RAW or JPEG? What ISO were you at with 1/2000th and f8? And if JEPG what is your noise reduction setting?
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RAW+JPEG or just RAW.
I changed ISO during the day but never higher than 800. I don't use Auto ISO (yet).
The files I attached were screen grabs of the unprocessed RAW in DPP at 50%.

No lens filters used.

Toggerman said:
As for the rest all I can really advise is to just keep playing with the settings until you find something you like.
Click to expand...

Yep will do but also keen to know if I am missing something....
(Never used a 1Dx)

Thanks again,

John.
 
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I think Gaz, John, Toggerman and Bob (and myself) are all finding pretty much the same thing, I keep wanting the camera to just perform more consistently at it's best level.

These's no doubt that it can produce some excellent files within the noise, DR and price constraints......and the fact that it has a different AF system from the 5D3 and 1 Dx is I think at the bottom of this.
I don't know why they changed it, possibly as it's a crop sensor, but hopefully another firmware update will address this.

I'm off to the Arctic in a few weeks and whereas I was just going to take the 1 Dx and the 7D2, I'm going to take 2x 1 Dxs as I don't feel sufficiently confident in the 7D2 yet...although it'll be coming along for some more testing.....that's the problem, it's just not consistent.

George.
 
JohnM100 said:
For an airshot without anything else in the frame then ok and I take your point, but I had *much* more success with single point plus expansion on the 7D mk1 than I am having on the 7D Mark 2 so far.
I have used a shoulder brace rig for several years and that really helps with panning stability and accuracy. It's like trap shooting.
I found zone AF on the 7D mk1 a bit meh.
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In that case I have no idea, sorry. For me the single point + expansion has been awesome.

George said:
I think Gaz, John, Toggerman and Bob (and myself) are all finding pretty much the same thing, I keep wanting the camera to just perform more consistently at it's best level.
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Not me mate, my 7DII is excellent and the focussing is pretty much as fast, accurate and reliable as it is on my 1DX. I've done many events whilst shooting both side by side and apart from the obvious high ISO noise (though it's not bad for a crop sensor) I can't say I've had a problem.
 
Toggerman said:
In that case I have no idea, sorry. For me the single point + expansion has been awesome.



Not me mate, my 7DII is excellent and the focussing is pretty much as fast, accurate and reliable as it is on my 1DX. I've done many events whilst shooting both side by side and apart from the obvious high ISO noise (though it's not bad for a crop sensor) I can't say I've had a problem.
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Mine doesnt have any AF issues Scott but "pretty much" isnt "as good as".
 
Toggerman said:
In that case I have no idea, sorry. For me the single point + expansion has been awesome.



Not me mate, my 7DII is excellent and the focussing is pretty much as fast, accurate and reliable as it is on my 1DX. I've done many events whilst shooting both side by side and apart from the obvious high ISO noise (though it's not bad for a crop sensor) I can't say I've had a problem.
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Sorry if I misrepresented you, a slip on my part!
 
I see you photograph a lot of motorsport Scott and the bit of rallying I have done the Mk II was fine. Im having an issue with smaller stuff
 
Gaz J said:
Mine doesnt have any AF issues Scott but "pretty much" isnt "as good as".
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Fair point. In which case I'll rephrase what I said, it is as good as my 1DX.

George said:
Sorry if I misrepresented you, a slip on my part!
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No worries, I just wanted to clarify that whilst I can be confusing at times (I think aloud, even on forums), I am really happy with mine.

Gaz J said:
I see you photograph a lot of motorsport Scott and the bit of rallying I have done the Mk II was fine. Im having an issue with smaller stuff
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Yep, I have mostly shot Motorsports and field sports with it, my kids a fair amount and ducks a few times. I'll rephrase myself again then and say that mine has been as good as my 1DX for the things I've shot so far.
 
George said:
I think Gaz, John, Toggerman and Bob (and myself) are all finding pretty much the same thing, I keep wanting the camera to just perform more consistently at it's best level.

These's no doubt that it can produce some excellent files within the noise, DR and price constraints......and the fact that it has a different AF system from the 5D3 and 1 Dx is I think at the bottom of this.
I don't know why they changed it, possibly as it's a crop sensor, but hopefully another firmware update will address this.

I'm off to the Arctic in a few weeks and whereas I was just going to take the 1 Dx and the 7D2, I'm going to take 2x 1 Dxs as I don't feel sufficiently confident in the 7D2 yet...although it'll be coming along for some more testing.....that's the problem, it's just not consistent.

George.
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....I have never used a 1DX :( but was about to ask if its AF system was different and if it didn't have the all the AF Cases and sub settings which the 7D2 has. I suggest that having so many options to 'fine tune' the AF system may be at the heart of the problem.

I switched to Case 6 on my 7D2 to shoot some Swallows in flight and left it on Case 6 when shooting some perched Dragonflies. I found that the AF kept crazily focus hunting to the point where I overrode it manually and I even missed a few shots while AF was fart-assing about. Because I missed a few shots like this I checked my AF settings and switched to the general purpose Case 1 and the problem appears solved so far.

This leads me to believe that it requires a lot of experimenting to find what best gets you results and to learn which setup is the most helpful for the subject you are shooting.



^ Case 6 on AF-SERVO. Click image to see on Flickr.

George said:
What later post, Robin?
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....I had missed the later post about when the review was going to be posted etc.
 
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JohnM100 said:
iTR is EOS intelligent Tracking and Recognition. A tick box in the AF menu.

p128 in the manual.
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....Thanks for that info - Appreciated :)

Also thanks to @Canon Bob :)

I shall now try shooting with iTR OFF to see if focus tracking is faster. Where are those Swallows!
 
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There is no doubt there are AF issues in some of the ones sold... I had one myself.

But this constant comparison with a product 3 times the price I find difficult to stomach. The 1dx is without doubt a stonking camera, but the ideal camera to compare this against is surely the original 7d?? Isn't this the camera it is replacing in the market??

I drive a VW at £30k, but I don't sit at my office desk comparing it to an £80k VW Phaeton never mind a £120k car.

Take the camera on its merits and if you have the luxury (and I wish I had) to have both the 1dx and 7d mkii then just enjoy them both... :woot:
 
Spiderdudeuk said:
But this constant comparison with a product 3 times the price I find difficult to stomach. The 1dx is without doubt a stonking camera, but the ideal camera to compare this against is surely the original 7d?? Isn't this the camera it is replacing in the market??

I drive a VW at £30k, but I don't sit at my office desk comparing it to an £80k VW Phaeton never mind a £120k car.

Take the camera on its merits and if you have the luxury (and I wish I had) to have both the 1dx and 7d mkii then just enjoy them both... :woot:
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Haven't Canon themselves invited us to make that comparison when they marketed the 7DMkII?
"Outstanding Autofocus"
"The EOS 7D Mark II features some of Canon’s most sophisticated AF technologies ever"

Bob
 
Canon Bob said:
Haven't Canon themselves invited us to make that comparison when they marketed the 7DMkII?
"Outstanding Autofocus"
"The EOS 7D Mark II features some of Canon’s most sophisticated AF technologies ever"

Bob
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No... They have stated exactly as you quoted... I see no reference to the 1dx..... If they had said, featuring the advanced technologies of the 1dx or similar then yes, fair enough.

Simple fact is, it is £3k less than a 1dx, anyone looking for the same abilities is going to be sorely disappointed.... It just isn't going to happen.

When comparing it should be done against previous model and those in and around same price, give or take a couple of hundred quid.
 
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I think that part of the problem is the case set ups 1-4 do not use af auto switching cases 5 and 6 do. so i think that you will have to check what it is set to before you shoot
 
Thing is in the 7D MKII A/F guide they even state that it is the same tracking system as the 1DX which is why many of us with both find it falls way short of our expectations in which case you could say that its A/F system merits have been in that case falsely advertised by Canon as the hit rate is far from that of the 1DX regardless of price difference.
"Blessed with the same AI Servo AF III focus-tracking system as the
top-of-the-line EOS-1D X camera, the default AI Servo AF settings will
handle most moving subjects with great success."
 
Spiderduduk is right in saying that it should be compared to the original 7D, as it is the replacement of that camera. The fact it keeps getting compared to the 1DX says a lot to me.

I do wonder if the reason some people with both cameras have problems with the MkII is that they are trying to treat it like the 1DX and think that copying their settings across is enough. Whilst the technique of the tracking may be similar, the metering system, AF system and processors are quite different between the 2 cameras. You can't just input the same settings and hope for the same results, doesn't work that way between mine at least.
 
I think its not a case of copying over settings as you would have to be stupid to even consider that but more the fact the 1DX just works straight out the box.
The biggest problem is having to play around so much to try and achieve a setup that works and still not knowing if it may be a firmware related issue much like the 70-200MKII problem.

Im not shooting any different than i have the last 6 years but the return rate has risen a lot with the 7DMKII since the firmware upgrade and im sure that Canon did more than just what was stated as i had problems also with the 400 F5.6 which now have also been corrected after the update.

Will be intresting to see what happens when the next one is released.
 
I spent weeks playing with my 1DX fine tuning it, I had a real love-hate relationship with and nearly packed it in and switch back to Nikon. The AF was skittish and inconsistent, nowhere near as good as the MKIII it replaced. But I persevered (and my wife wouldn't let me switch) and I eventually got the hang of that camera. It sounds like a very similar situation to me.
 
Toggerman said:
I spent weeks playing with my 1DX fine tuning it, I had a real love-hate relationship with and nearly packed it in and switch back to Nikon. The AF was skittish and inconsistent, nowhere near as good as the MKIII it replaced. But I persevered (and my wife wouldn't let me switch) and I eventually got the hang of that camera. It sounds like a very similar situation to me.
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Gadget-Guy said:
I think its not a case of copying over settings as you would have to be stupid to even consider that but more the fact the 1DX just works straight out the box.
The biggest problem is having to play around so much to try and achieve a setup that works and still not knowing if it may be a firmware related issue much like the 70-200MKII problem.

Im not shooting any different than i have the last 6 years but the return rate has risen a lot with the 7DMKII since the firmware upgrade and im sure that Canon did more than just what was stated as i had problems also with the 400 F5.6 which now have also been corrected after the update.

Will be intresting to see what happens when the next one is released.
Click to expand...

This constant implication that the issues are user error or people dont know how to set the camera up is really starting to p*** me off.

Comparing it to the 1DX is fair game as far as I'm concerned and that comparison has been fueled by Pro photographers giving it the thumbs up. There are only 2 cameras to compare it with, 5D3 and 1DX. Nothing else that Canon has produced has anything like the sophistication in the AF that these 3 cameras carry.

If you look at the AF guides available there is not a great deal of difference between them and its perfectly reasonable to expect the bloody thing to work out of the box. Which it does, to a degree.
 
Gaz J said:
This constant implication that the issues are user error or people dont know how to set the camera up is really starting to p*** me off.
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And the constant inferring that there's an inherent fault or it's just a crappy design (which would affect all cameras) also p****s me off.

I have absolutely no doubt that some people are having problems, Canon's already issued one fix. There always will be issues with cameras, especially when it's a new model with many new systems within. But there's also a lot of us who don't have any problems at all which shows they're not all bad (hence not a design flaw), so it means that the problem lies somewhere else whether it be with that specific camera, manufacturing batch or operational error.

If anyone on here has a problem and you're adamant it's not you but the design of the camera, then get rid of it and stop posting in this thread. Otherwise I'm sure people will help out and offer suggestions and tips to help rule out user error first, providing you're willing to listen and try.
 
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Toggerman said:
And the constant inferring that there's an inherent fault or it's just a crappy design (which would affect all cameras) also p****s me off.

I have absolutely no doubt that some people are having problems, Canon's already issued one fix. There always will be issues with cameras, especially when it's a new model with many new systems within. But there's also a lot of us who don't have any problems at all which shows they're not all bad (hence not a design flaw), so it means that the problem lies somewhere else whether it be with that specific camera, manufacturing batch or operational error.

If anyone on here has a problem and you're adamant it's not you but the design of the camera, then get rid of it and stop posting in this thread. Otherwise I'm sure people will help out and offer suggestions and tips to help rule out user error first, providing you're willing to listen and try.
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The last time I looked you're not in a position to tell me to stop posting in anything. I know its not me, and I also know that I have probably as good a knowledge of this camera as anyone on here, including you, from recent posts.

Don't fall into the habit of assuming that because you earn a living from photography that your're in a position to dismiss, in your eyes, other opinions from those who don't.

In the meantime I will post whatever I choose to post about this camera and the inconsistencies I see in it and if you don't like what I have to say then add me to your ignore list.
 
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Was it Eric Idle who said "I didn't come here for an argument"?

As an unbiased 70d user, I can see and understand both viewpoints being presented here. What keeps me interested in this thread is the wealth of information being discussed, from those praising and those criticising the camera, that ultimately will lead me to decide whether or not to upgrade to the 7d2 or wait it out for another 12m or so to see what comes along.

So, from my selfish perspective, please do continue to post your experiences, positive or otherwise!
Cheers
Paul
 
If we are just talking about AF then i goes like this for me.

7Dmk2 = works well in good light with a contrasty subject but at best 70-80% keepers
5Dmk3 = works well in any lighting and pretty much focussed on what it was pointing at. 85-95% keepers.

If you get better results than i have well all i can say is lucky you.
 
As much as it may P*** anyone off its been proved by the FACT of a firmware upgrade being issued by Canon that an A/F issue was found with this camera which completely rules out user error.

None of us will ever know if they only addressed an issue with the 70-200 or a more general one with the camera.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion as this really is the idea of a forum in the first place so as to be unbiased and discuss subjects in a rational and friendly manner.

People that seem to think that by becoming annoyed and starting to use uncivilised language in a genuine debate are what really gets my goat going as its nothing short of bully boy tactics to silence people who they believe are of lesser importance than themselves.

The 7D MKII is much better than it was but still not as good as it either should be or is made out to be across all units regardless of price or user.
 
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Gaz J said:
The last time I looked you're not in a position to tell me to stop posting in anything. I know its not me, and I also know that I have probably as good a knowledge of this camera as anyone on here, including you, from recent posts.

Don't fall into the habit of assuming that because you earn a living from photography that your're in a position to dismiss, in your eyes, other opinions from those who don't.

In the meantime I will post whatever I choose to post about this camera and the inconsistencies I see in it and if you don't like what I have to say then add me to your ignore list.
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Stop assuming I'm only ever taking about you, even if I quote you it doesn't have to mean that I'm talking directly to you but rather continuing on from your statement. There are plenty of other people out there moaning that it's a broken camera with a huge production or design flaw that must be fixed straight away, completely ignoring that some of us are getting on brilliantly with ours meaning that it can't be a design flaw.

As for knowledge, I didn't know about that one setting and there's probably some more I missed, fair enough, but my basis for saying that there's no design problem that affects all cameras comes from shooting over 77K shots with mine, mostly side by side with a 1DX.
 
Gadget-Guy said:
As much as it may P*** anyone off its been proved by the FACT of a firmware upgrade being issued by Canon that an A/F issue was found with this camera which completely rules out user error.

None of us will ever know if they only addressed an issue with the 70-200 or a more general one with the camera.
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It doesn't rule out user error at all, as you say we don't know what was addressed, it could have only been that one lens in that specific situation at 100mm like they said. Therefore people having problems with that lens at other focal lengths or other lenses still could very well be down to some user errors. Likewise people who are still having the same issues after the firmware update.
 
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I have to say Glen that I love the stuff you're getting with it. Any chance of knowing what picture style settings or PP you're doing as the colours looking brilliant?
 
Neil B said:
If we are just talking about AF then i goes like this for me.

7Dmk2 = works well in good light with a contrasty subject but at best 70-80% keepers
5Dmk3 = works well in any lighting and pretty much focussed on what it was pointing at. 85-95% keepers.

If you get better results than i have well all i can say is lucky you.
Click to expand...

I have to say that I totally agree with the view put by NeilB quoted above, Owning both 5D3 and 7D2 I find it much easier to get consistent results from the 5D3 in terms of accurate focus.
Still persevering with the AF case options,

Neil
 
Toggerman said:
Stop assuming I'm only ever taking about you, even if I quote you it doesn't have to mean that I'm talking directly to you but rather continuing on from your statement. There are plenty of other people out there moaning that it's a broken camera with a huge production or design flaw that must be fixed straight away, completely ignoring that some of us are getting on brilliantly with ours meaning that it can't be a design flaw.

As for knowledge, I didn't know about that one setting and there's probably some more I missed, fair enough, but my basis for saying that there's no design problem that affects all cameras comes from shooting over 77K shots with mine, mostly side by side with a 1DX.
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Gadget-Guy said:
As much as it may P*** anyone off its been proved by the FACT of a firmware upgrade being issued by Canon that an A/F issue was found with this camera which completely rules out user error.

None of us will ever know if they only addressed an issue with the 70-200 or a more general one with the camera.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion as this really is the idea of a forum in the first place so as to be unbiased and discuss subjects in a rational and friendly manner.

People that seem to think that by becoming annoyed and starting to use uncivilised language in a genuine debate are what really gets my goat going as its nothing short of bully boy tactics to silence people who they believe are of lesser importance than themselves.

The 7D MKII is much better than it was but still not as good as it either should be or is made out to be across all units regardless of price or user.
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Then quote them.

Nowhere have I ever said that there is a design problem or that there is a major flaw with the camera and I have said plenty that is positive about it. I don't care how many frames you've shot with the camera, you've got some nice stuff with it as has 'gadget guy' but most of what I am seeing are good light images and in a lot of instances large subject matter.

Neither have I dismissed anyone who, like you, states that their camera is brilliant. In fact the only comments I have made about it is that image quality and ISO noise handling excludes it from use in low light and that the AF has an inconsistency which impacts on some of my shooting with it.

I stand by my comments and when I find a setting that works where it currently falls short I will be the first to post on here and share my findings. and sing the cameras praises.

I'm not getting annoyed, neither do I think that other peoples opinions are of lesser importance. I read all the posts on here and when people who have used it extensively like 'toggerman' post with examples I think carefully about what i need to do to achieve that consistency.

At the moment it ain't happening in some circumstances and its not user error which, to me, essentially means that you haven't taken the time to learn what the camera can do.

I agree that initially after this camera came out a lot of people were jumping on the AF bandwagon amid claims that the AF was faulty when in many cases it was user error when they were coming to the camera from an older model and hadn't taken the time to even begin to learn about the camera. the complexity of the AF is either a good thing or a bad one depending on how much time an individual is prepared to put into the camera. Equally there were people on here who obviously know what they are doing and identified valid concerns which seemed to be quite random.
 
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My first ever motorsport event with the camera, only had it for 10 days so still not used to it. 1/100s, f2.8, ISO1000 70-200II at 70mm
121A2152 by Scott Boulton, on Flickr

1/500th, f2.8, ISO320.
121A1901 by Scott Boulton, on Flickr

2nd ever event. 1/60th, f4, ISO4000 EFS 18-135 STM at 29mm.
Allen2014-206 by Scott Boulton, on Flickr

1/200th, f6.3, ISO3200, EFS 18-135 STM at 135mm
Allen2014-153 by Scott Boulton, on Flickr

1/800th, f2.8, ISO10000, Sigma 120-300mm Sport at 300mm
121A1245 by Scott Boulton, on Flickr

Same as above
121A3165 by Scott Boulton, on Flickr

A very quick snap taken between cars at a recent sprint event. 1/1000th, f5.6, ISO125, 100-400II at 400mm
121A2627 by Scott Boulton, on Flickr

As I was chucking my camera into the car for some lunch at Japfest I saw this fly above my head. Again a quick snap (I started off at 1/50th as that's what the camera was left in, love the recall shooting function setting). 1/1000th, f5.6, ISO125, 100-400II at 360mm
121A6777 by Scott Boulton, on Flickr

The full size images should be available to see on Flickr and the exif should be intact. I appreciate they're not the greatest photos in the world, I'm not really a wildlife tog, but I do like to have a go sometimes.
 
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wave01 said:
I think that part of the problem is the case set ups 1-4 do not use af auto switching cases 5 and 6 do. so i think that you will have to check what it is set to before you shoot
Click to expand...


AF point switching still takes place in Cases 1-4 if you have AF point expansion, Zone AF, large Zone, 65 point set. Even though its is set to 0 there is still a gradual switching.
 
Sorry i didn't make my self clear or i am reading to much into the canon af setup pdf
EOS_7D_Mark_II_AF-Setting_Guide-p9090-c3945-en_EU-1410782521.pdf
here it says about the use of the cases. and in cases 5 and 6 mentions the zone settings it can be used on. again let me say i may be getting it wrong. any way its a good read
 
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