Canon EOS R Series Cameras

nandbytes

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Is he in a better mood now that he finally got one to try?
No idea

Showed up on my mobile feed.
Haven't watched it yet. Will do so before going to bed, outside at the moment but the title is promising lol
 
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Downsampled with real colour, like in real life... the R5 file has better detail retention, colour and less blotchy noise. The RIV looks a little soft? RAW baking?

View attachment 287754

View attachment 287755
Well that's the R3 not R4 ;) Depends where you look on the frame as the R4 looks to have more detail here to me (edit not as obvious on TP as it softens both), but lets be honest we're splitting hairs and both are incredible (y)
Screenshot 2020-07-26 at 19.07.09 by TDG-77, on Flickr


I think overall the A7RIV has more chroma noise though.
 

nandbytes

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Northrup's video has left me confused.
First they say it's really good at focussing and tracking the eye. Then they say its not really animal eyeAF because it focus on whatever body part is closest to the camera (eg: nose, bill etc). So which is it?

Also they made it a point to mention that the blackout is a hindrance to tracking. Is that blackout really that bad in comparison to other mirrorless...?
 

nandbytes

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I can't believe you both are still at it with the noise. :D

There is barely anything in it. Perhaps you folks care more about it, I don't shoot at such high ISO.
 
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Yep as I said, nothing in it really. not great the exposures are different though.
Northrup's video has left me confused.
First they say it's really good at focussing and tracking the eye. Then they say its not really animal eyeAF because it focus on whatever body part is closest to the camera (eg: nose, bill etc). So which is it?

Also they made it a point to mention that the blackout is a hindrance to tracking. Is that blackout really that bad in comparison to other mirrorless...?
Are you saying good old Tony is contradictory? ;)
 

nandbytes

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Are you saying good old Tony is contradictory? ;)
Yeah :D
I can count the number the number of videos of their's I have watched start to end with one hand. And the above I posted is one of them lol.
 
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Northrup's video has left me confused.
First they say it's really good at focussing and tracking the eye. Then they say its not really animal eyeAF because it focus on whatever body part is closest to the camera (eg: nose, bill etc). So which is it?

Also they made it a point to mention that the blackout is a hindrance to tracking. Is that blackout really that bad in comparison to other mirrorless...?
Haven't seen it yet but perhaps they mean black out in general. In comparison to the A9?
 
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They said blackout in general.
It'd a moot point to compare it to A9 which is blackout free.
More research needed here. He goes from saying that it basically gives false positives when focusing on the eye (like all manufacturers) to it being so great that he doesn't trust himself to give an objective review.

The battery draining after an hour is a concern and a surprise.
 

nandbytes

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More research needed here. He goes from saying that it basically gives false positives when focusing on the eye (like all manufacturers) to it being so great that he doesn't trust himself to give an objective review.

The battery draining after an hour is a concern and a surprise.
Oh yeah the battery was a concern.
The other small concern is the camera while continues to shoot still images says it's too hot for videos after an hour of shooting. Will that cause any longevity issues?
 
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Oh yeah the battery was a concern.
The other small concern is the camera while continues to shoot still images says it's too hot for videos after an hour of shooting. Will that cause any longevity issues?
No, its a safety feature, just like Sonys cameras were tripping the thermal shut off to early then they changed it in FW so the camera lasted longer without getting the warning.
 

nandbytes

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No, its a safety feature, just like Sonys cameras were tripping the thermal shut off to early then they changed it in FW so the camera lasted longer without getting the warning.
but why is it ok to continue shooting still when it's not OK to shoot video? there seems no cut-off for that.
p.s. did say it was a small concern, I am not overly concerned per say but at the same time doesn't instil a huge lot of confidence.
 
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but why is it ok to continue shooting still when it's not OK to shoot video? there seems no cut-off for that.
p.s. did say it was a small concern, I am not overly concerned per say but at the same time doesn't instil a huge lot of confidence.
Because the camera was at its thermal limit for video, video creates way more heat in way less time, the heat is at an acceptable range for stills.

Its the same thing with computers, you can stay at an acceptable range of CPU usage and temp for hours/days/years without getting a thermal shutdown, when you switch to doing something CPU intensive like gaming, exporting a million RAWs you increase the risk of shutdown dramatically.

I guess we will know soon enough if Canons final production is improved or if they can push out a FW fix.
 
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I personally don’t understand why developers do this, make something with ‘headline features’ but with flaws. We all know that sensors overheat with video, so why keep trying to push it. Well I know the answer it’s to make ‘headline features’ but I’d rather them just make an all round polished product, something that doesn’t feel half baked.
 
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What are you going to be doing, recording them consistently for 20+ mins 8k or 40 mins 4k30 while you also take the photos? You'll also be looking at 20mins recording time at 8K on a 512GB CFexpress card thats a £600 memory card and then I hope you a have a very powerful computer to process those files. Those models better be paying you a LOT of money.
You make a good point there, just hope they cough up. On a lighter note there could well be a fix to the overheating


 
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Northrup's video has left me confused.
First they say it's really good at focussing and tracking the eye. Then they say its not really animal eyeAF because it focus on whatever body part is closest to the camera (eg: nose, bill etc). So which is it?

Also they made it a point to mention that the blackout is a hindrance to tracking. Is that blackout really that bad in comparison to other mirrorless...?
Go check out some of the responses on Fred Miranda, they were... less than impressed with the video from the Northrups. The blackout was apparently because she had the mechanical shutter enabled, they also weren't happy they were using an older lens with TC (which couldn't handle max frame rate) to test AF performance and unless I'm thinking of something else part of the extra battery drain was due to it being in the 120hz mode.
 

nandbytes

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Go check out some of the responses on Fred Miranda, they were... less than impressed with the video from the Northrups. The blackout was apparently because she had the mechanical shutter enabled, they also weren't happy they were using an older lens with TC (which couldn't handle max frame rate) to test AF performance and unless I'm thinking of something else part of the extra battery drain was due to it being in the 120hz mode.
She had mechanical shutter enabled and rightly so too. You have to use mechanical shutter because electronic shutter is not suitable for action since it most likely doesn't have fast readout enough speeds like A9. So mechanical shutter blackout is unavoidable unless you want to end up with the "jello effect" in your action shots. So that point doesn't make sense.

The frame rate and AF are not really related. It could be shooting at 1fps but still accurately.

I constantly use A7RIV and used A7RIII all day with 120fps. You have to use higher EVF refresh rate for tracking action. I get more like 8-10 hours on it instead of 1 hour. So I don't buy that excuse.
 
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Go check out some of the responses on Fred Miranda, they were... less than impressed with the video from the Northrups. The blackout was apparently because she had the mechanical shutter enabled, they also weren't happy they were using an older lens with TC (which couldn't handle max frame rate) to test AF performance and unless I'm thinking of something else part of the extra battery drain was due to it being in the 120hz mode.
Canon mumtog’s be hating

Their new video they rate both higher than there closest Sony cameras in video, but seems like the R5 actually kinda sucks for video with 4K all being mushy bar the HQ version and it over heats faster.

They seem to rate the R6 as the better camera.
 
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She had mechanical shutter enabled and rightly so too. You have to use mechanical shutter because electronic shutter is not suitable for action since it most likely doesn't have fast readout enough speeds like A9. So mechanical shutter blackout is unavoidable unless you want to end up with the "jello effect" in your action shots. So that point doesn't make sense.
You're better off reading the original posts in case I've misunderstood something or done a poor job of explaining their complaints (and they had more), however why bring up blackout if you're using a mechanical shutter? It's an odd point to raise in the first place.

The frame rate and AF are not really related. It could be shooting at 1fps but still accurately.
If I've understood correctly I think simply the point they're making is he's testing the camera out, why put it with a lens which does this worse than the current alternatives? You want to see the limitations of the camera or at the very least a comparison of both so you can see the difference older and newer lenses make to that camera. Again check the original posts to get the proper meaning rather than us arguing over third hand information.

I constantly use A7RIV and used A7RIII all day with 120fps. You have to use higher EVF refresh rate for tracking action. I get more like 8-10 hours on it instead of 1 hour. So I don't buy that excuse.
Maybe, maybe not but first you've got to rule it out by establishing how much of a difference changing that setting actually makes for Canon (what Sony does is irrelevant to this point). I'm willing to give Canon the benefit of the doubt in this matter considering the Northrup's have made plenty of mistakes in their videos, entertaining sure but not a reliable technical source in the least.
 

nandbytes

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You're better off reading the original posts in case I've misunderstood something or done a poor job of explaining their complaints (and they had more),
Tbh with you I rather not :D
Simply because I have so much work to do and explaining matters to people on forums could end up like this:



however why bring up blackout if you're using a mechanical shutter? It's an odd point to raise in the first place.
Not all mechanical shutters are born equal (just as not all electronic shutters are not equal). Some cameras have longer blackouts that others. In fact if you are using the EVF even electronic shutter will have blackout on R5/6 AFAIK. And what I have highlighted in bold is exactly my point i.e. they seem have made it a point to mention it so is it really that bad?

If I've understood correctly I think simply the point they're making is he's testing the camera out, why put it with a lens which does this worse than the current alternatives? You want to see the limitations of the camera or at the very least a comparison of both so you can see the difference older and newer lenses make to that camera. Again check the original posts to get the proper meaning rather than us arguing over third hand information.
Most folks seem to be testing with adapted lenses for better reach and light. RF hardly has suitable long lenses widely available.
The new 600mm and 800mm lenses are f11. I understand if they didn't want to use it. I wouldn't either especially being in the UK. Though they seemed be out on a sunny day so probably they could have used those but again not sure if they had access to them. They probably just used whatever lens they already had.

Maybe, maybe not but first you've got to rule it out by establishing how much of a difference changing that setting actually makes for Canon (what Sony does is irrelevant to this point).
While it's true what Sony does is irrelevant my point was that it's a setting that's most action shooters will use. And if it were to drain the battery in an hour it won't sit well with such folks (inc. me since I am also looking to may be swap)

I'm willing to give Canon the benefit of the doubt in this matter considering the Northrup's have made plenty of mistakes in their videos, entertaining sure but not a reliable technical source in the least.
You and me both :)
 
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Not all mechanical shutters are born equal (just as not all electronic shutters are not equal). Some cameras have longer blackouts that others.
Do you know I didn't realise this, I thought if you were shooting at say 8fps then blackout would be the same, but I did notice how minimal blackout was on the A7RIV last weekend compared to my Nikons :thinking:
 

nandbytes

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Do you know I didn't realise this, I thought if you were shooting at say 8fps then blackout would be the same, but I did notice how minimal blackout was on the A7RIV last weekend compared to my Nikons :thinking:
Yep, one if the main complaints of mirrorless FF (the originals like A7/r) and even A99 I think was that the blackout made them unusable for action. It was longer than DSLRs which house a mirror.

Of course things have gotten better since then.

It's the same with electronic shutters. They have different clearance speeds etc.
 
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Yep, one if the main complaints of mirrorless FF (the originals like A7/r) and even A99 I think was that the blackout made them unusable for action. It was longer than DSLRs which house a mirror.

Of course things have gotten better since then.

It's the same with electronic shutters. They have different clearance speeds etc.
I do wish the A7RIV had the same readout time as my EM1-II had, I got minimal rolling shutter with that. Of course, we all wish it could be like the A9 but they're not going to do that are they, an probably couldn't with the amount of mp.
 
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So cameras like the R5 and R6 still use a mechanical shutter then ?
Forgive my ignorance I’m not very technical but do understand how my DSLR works but
I thought that with mirrorless everything was electronic like my Sony RX100
 

nandbytes

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I do wish the A7RIV had the same readout time as my EM1-II had, I got minimal rolling shutter with that. Of course, we all wish it could be like the A9 but they're not going to do that are they, an probably couldn't with the amount of mp.
A7RIV is the worst at around 1/10s. unusable for even snails lol.
A7RIII/Z7 was around 1/15s. Z6/A7S/A7III/X-T3 around 1/20s-1/30s.
E-M1ii/1DXiii (and most probably R6) is around 1/60s.
A9 is around 1/160s.

In comparison mechanical shutter are like 1/250s-1/320s. So even the fastest electronic shutter can be half as fast as fastest mechanical shutter.

But if canon have managed to get R5 to around 1/60s that'd be truly impressive!
 

nandbytes

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So cameras like the R5 and R6 still use a mechanical shutter then ?
Forgive my ignorance I’m not very technical but do understand how my DSLR works but
I thought that with mirrorless everything was electronic like my Sony RX100
RX100 is I am not mistake might have a leaf shutter (i.e. a shutter in your lens instead of the sensor). still mechanical but quiet.

ALL mirrorless cameras have mechanical shutters. Most electronic shutters cannot match mechanical shutter because of readout speed limitations (see my list above). So the side effect of this is rolling shutter or the "jello effect". If you google for images you will see what I mean, basically your moving/action shots will be skewed.

Sony A9/ii seems to just about get over this issue in full electronic shutter but does impose other limitations such as you only get a 12-bit RAW.
E-M1ii and probably R6 will be good enough for a lot of slow moving things and probably good enough for shooting people etc. Still couldn't use it for all action.
The rest are basically useless for action shots IMO.

But none of them can still match a mechanical shutter.
 
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RX100 is I am not mistake might have a leaf shutter (i.e. a shutter in your lens instead of the sensor). still mechanical but quiet.

ALL mirrorless cameras have mechanical shutters. Most electronic shutters cannot match mechanical shutter because of readout speed limitations (see my list above). So the side effect of this is rolling shutter or the "jello effect". If you google for images you will see what I mean, basically your moving/action shots will be skewed.

Sony A9/ii seems to just about get over this issue in full electronic shutter but does impose other limitations such as you only get a 12-bit RAW.
E-M1ii and probably R6 will be good enough for a lot of slow moving things and probably good enough for shooting people etc. Still couldn't use it for all action.
The rest are basically useless for action shots IMO.

But none of them can still match a mechanical shutter.
Ahh I see thanks for explaining that
 

nandbytes

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I dunno, it doesnt look that big to me.

Ooo, look at what Camerasize has added ;)

View attachment 287967
that much difference is definitely noticeable and more so the weight of it too.
The issue with camerasize is shows you the area, not the volume i.e. 2D vs. 3D which can be slightly misleading and I have fallen foul from it in the past :D
 
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that much difference is definitely noticeable and more so the weight of it too.
The issue with camerasize is shows you the area, not the volume i.e. 2D vs. 3D which can be slightly misleading and I have fallen foul from it in the past :D
You want cameraweight.com for that ;)
 
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