Canon FF mirrorless...

[RedRobin]

Call me Mr Old-fashioned but I'll be waiting for the review in Amateur Photographer.......

....Here you go! A first look by Amateur Photographer :

https://www.amateurphotographer.co....ameras/canon-eos-r-review-hands-on-first-look

Meanwhile, I am 95% going to buy one. Now to go off and read AP's 'first look'.

 

[jerry12953]

I suspect it will take more than a "first look" for a full picture of this camera to emerge, judging by the way online reviewers are finding new features of the system in a one by one fashion. But thanks for the link anyhow.

 

[RedRobin]

I suspect it will take more than a "first look" for a full picture of this camera to emerge, judging by the way online reviewers are finding new features of the system in a one by one fashion. But thanks for the link anyhow.

....Agreed. Clearly Canon's future bodies in the EOS R system will have even more to offer and of course, as with ALL camera gear, none will be absolutely perfect!

You are probably bored of reading the details about why I personally have decided to buy one, so I won't repeat myself too much. But something I haven't mentioned before is that because I already have an EOS M5 mirrorless body with adapter for EF lenses, I am already familiar with some of Canon's mirrorless features and interface which the M5 and R bodies have in common. I shall sell my M5 (and 7D-2) to reduce the cost and thereby streamline my EOS system. My 1DX-2 ain't for sale!!

Anyone with an EOS M5 (or similar M-series) is going to find familiarising themselves with a R body much easier.

 

[GyRob]

Does it only take 1 shot in silent shutter mode ? I would want at leased 10 fps for wiled life shooting.
Rob.

 

[jerry12953]

Clearly Canon's future bodies in the EOS R system will have even more to offer

And we may not have long to wait for the announcement of next model; Canon were quoted as saying that they would announce two mirrorless cameras within 6 months. It could be a 5d4 equivalent that will include the features that seem to be missing in the R.

 

[RedRobin]

Does it only take 1 shot in silent shutter mode ? I would want at least 10 fps for wildlife shooting.
Rob.

....At the moment I think it's only silent in ONE SHOT AF but firmware will apply a silent shutter option to AI SERVO.

I think the max fps for stills is only 8 fps (I may be wrong) and as a wildlife photographer like yourself I also want high fps rates. However, I still captured some great action shots on my 5D-4 (later traded in for a 1DX-2) which I think was only 7(?) fps. I also managed some quite good wildlife action shots on my 70D at 7 fps when I started. But as you already know, higher fps rates offer you more choices to select the best capture in the burst.

I sometimes miss the fully articulated screen which the 70D had and so it's a big bonus for me on the R and I don't know if future higher spec R bodies will have this feature < I think it less likely.

There's no such thing as the perfect camera!

 

[twist]

....At the moment I think it's only silent in ONE SHOT AF but firmware will apply a silent shutter option to AI SERVO.

I think the max fps for stills is only 8 fps (I may be wrong) and as a wildlife photographer like yourself I also want high fps rates. However, I still captured some great action shots on my 5D-4 (later traded in for a 1DX-2) which I think was only 7(?) fps. I also managed some quite good wildlife action shots on my 70D at 7 fps when I started. But as you already know, higher fps rates offer you more choices to select the best capture in the burst.

I sometimes miss the fully articulated screen which the 70D had and so it's a big bonus for me on the R and I don't know if future higher spec R bodies will have this feature < I think it less likely.

There's no such thing as the perfect camera!

In terms of performance, the EOS R can shoot continuously at 8 fps in AF-S and 5 fps in AF-C 'shooting speed priority' mode. If you want to use 'tracking priority' mode in AF-C the frame rate drops to just 3 fps.

 

[RedRobin]

And we may not have long to wait for the announcement of next model; Canon were quoted as saying that they would announce two mirrorless cameras within 6 months. It could be a 5d4 equivalent that will include the features that seem to be missing in the R.

....I don't suppose you can remember or link to that quote, please? I had read (Canon Rumors website?) that the next body would not be released until late 2019. It's all speculation of course.

December is the earliest I would buy mine - I'm waiting for the kit deal with RF 24-105mm F/4 and additional Control Ring Adapter for my EF lenses. So we'll see if there is any more official information by December.

If I wait for a future R body I might have to balance probably not having an articulated screen against a higher fps for my second EOS body. But at least it's a system which has choices.

 

[GyRob]

Quite a way off the spec I would be wanting but it is a step in the right direction as long as EF lenses AF as fast with these adaptors perhaps a 1DXR will come out
Rob.

 

[RedRobin]

In terms of performance, the EOS R can shoot continuously at 8 fps in AF-S and 5 fps in AF-C 'shooting speed priority' mode. If you want to use 'tracking priority' mode in AF-C the frame rate drops to just 3 fps.

....That's it! Thanks, for the detail - I had read it but not retained the info at my fingertips.

Fps rate is the one thing which could make me wait for the next R body release but that depends when it would be because I'm not getting any younger. As said, I do have the luxury of 14 fps on my 1DX-2 - It just depends what my wildlife targets are on the day and even the worst case scenario of 3 fps doesn't mean I won't capture a good shot.

In my AF SERVO case settings I have 1st image priority set to Focus and 2nd image priority set to exactly halfway between Speed and Focus.

I'm disappointed if the EOS R fps is so slow but not put off buying into the mirrorless system sooner rather than later and possibly upgrading later. That's another advantage of a camera system.

 

[RedRobin]

Quite a way off the spec I would be wanting but it is a step in the right direction as long as EF lenses AF as fast with these adaptors perhaps a 1DXR will come out
Rob.

....I don't want to think what a 1DX-R would cost!! I think that might be announced in time for the 2020(?) Olympics < It would make good marketing sense. I think it's surely safe to assume that a '1DX-R' mirrorless equivalent is definitely going to be released one day. It could be quite a beast!

All reports and 'reviews' I have read state quite categorically that on a Canon EF Adapter, AF with EF lenses is just as fast and that AF speed is assisted by the R body's low light reading capabilities. Obviously it may be influenced by which EF lenses are mounted but the new RF mount apparently improves 'lens > < body' communications.

 

[GyRob]

Yes it will cost a fair bit that's for sure Nice to know AF isn't affected on this new range all looking good for the future line.
Rob

 

[wooster]

I'm in a bit of a quandary, I'm looking for a FF Canon and was going for the 5DIV. The R is nice ( IMHO ) but as I'm hoping to use it some of the time, at least, for birds the 3FPS is a bit disappointing for me. I'm sure it would be all right for birds on sticks though and I do have my 7D II for faster stuff. Hmmmmm..... I'm sort of going round in circles.

I'm likely to buy a 5DIV and trade up if a new release is available next year sometime. OTOH, if everyone goes mirrorless crazy then I might lose a fair bit more in future trading - in a 5D mkIV trade - in rather than an R and the latter might make more sense? Gosh. Photography is more complex than we could have known when we started out

 

[simonbarker]

I'm in a bit of a quandary, I'm looking for a FF Canon and was going for the 5DIV. The R is nice ( IMHO ) but as I'm hoping to use it some of the time, at least, for birds the 3FPS is a bit disappointing for me. I'm sure it would be all right for birds on sticks though and I do have my 7D II for faster stuff. Hmmmmm..... I'm sort of going round in circles.

I'm likely to buy a 5DIV and trade up if a new release is available next year sometime. OTOH, if everyone goes mirrorless crazy then I might lose a fair bit more in future trading - in a 5D mkIV trade - in rather than an R and the latter might make more sense? Gosh. Photography is more complex than we could have known when we started out

If you want to use it for some time and the FPS is disappointing for your needs it doesn't sound like the R is the right choice as it forces you to rely on the 7D and you will replace it sooner rather than later as a higher FPS mirrorless is inevitable. I actually like some of the features of the R (more so things like the ring on RF lenses) but let's not get carried away, it's just a camera much like all the DSLR's before it.

Your options seem to me to be either you want to stretch your money the furthest and get the camera better suited to your needs with a cheap 5DIV once the R is released (all the people upgrading will want to move their old cameras) or you want to have the latest technology with the R which will force you to spend more even if you don't upgrade (which you probably will).

If you've got your heart set on an R and money isn't a problem I can probably guess what you're going to do.

 

[Riz_Guru]

In terms of performance, the EOS R can shoot continuously at 8 fps in AF-S and 5 fps in AF-C 'shooting speed priority' mode. If you want to use 'tracking priority' mode in AF-C the frame rate drops to just 3 fps.

3 fps lol. Let me guess, Canon gave it 3 fps as they know the market better than me!

 

[redhed17]

I'm in a bit of a quandary, I'm looking for a FF Canon and was going for the 5DIV. The R is nice ( IMHO ) but as I'm hoping to use it some of the time, at least, for birds the 3FPS is a bit disappointing for me. I'm sure it would be all right for birds on sticks though and I do have my 7D II for faster stuff. Hmmmmm..... I'm sort of going round in circles.

I'm likely to buy a 5DIV and trade up if a new release is available next year sometime. OTOH, if everyone goes mirrorless crazy then I might lose a fair bit more in future trading - in a 5D mkIV trade - in rather than an R and the latter might make more sense? Gosh. Photography is more complex than we could have known when we started out

What does the EOS R give you now that the 5DIV doesn't and vice versa? Image quality wise they are pretty similar. AF wise you get more AF coverage with R, but I haven't seen any tests with any big lenses, and especially AF tracking with the R. The 5DIV AF is a known quality option. The R does have face and eye detection, but there are a lot of people getting very nice and sharp portrait images without it. The size and weight of the R are less than the 5DIV. Adding the weight of the EF-EOS R adapter makes the weights closer. Battery wise the R should give a lot less shots per charge. Fps the R is lacking way behind with the 5DIV capable of 7fps with continuous focus and exposure compared to 3fps.

That being said I think the 5DIV is a better camera buy at this point and would always get the best option for now, as that would be when I am taking the pics.

I wouldn't worry about the depreciation of the 5DIV too much, mirrorless have been around for awhile in various guises and the DSLR still sells more. For me the R, and the Nikon the Z6+7, are not the cameras to greatly bring change to the market quickly. But I would worry about the R if Canon bring out another mirrorless FF with vastly improved specs too close to the price of the R, and the effect to the used value of that. A lot of Canon users who will buy the R seem to be buying in the knowledge that it may not be the best camera, but it is good enough, so they will buy, and of course it is a Canon. These are the same people who may also buy the next camera with improved specs as it may get closer to what they have now with a DSLR. What will happen to the R's they have at that point, and the used prices! Only speculation of course.

I generally get a camera when it can do (almost) everything I want better than the one I already have, and with the expectation that I will have it a long time, so 2nd hand values are irrelevant to me. When I get a new camera the old camera becomes the backup, and the one before that becomes a timelapse camera. I'm aware that some have to sell to buy new though.

 

[RedRobin]

I'm in a bit of a quandary, I'm looking for a FF Canon and was going for the 5DIV. The R is nice ( IMHO ) but as I'm hoping to use it some of the time, at least, for birds the 3FPS is a bit disappointing for me. I'm sure it would be all right for birds on sticks though and I do have my 7D II for faster stuff. Hmmmmm..... I'm sort of going round in circles.

....I was in a very similar position (apart from the R factor) last year. I have had a 7D-2 for several years, I like it but wanted to get a FF second (not spare) body. I could afford a 1DX-2 but at the time I didn't feel I could justify all that money and so I bought a new 5D-4. I enjoyed the 5D-4 a lot and it was my first introduction to shooting FF. However, in April the opportunity came up on a Wex additional credit offer to their part exchange if buying a new 1DX-2 so as I was saving a considerable sum and the offer had a limited time, I took the plunge. As to be expected the 1DX-2 blows everything else away and has definitely opened up more of my potential (I only shoot wildlife and only RAW).

While I owned both the 7D-2 and 5D-4 I was using both but shot more on the 5D-4. The image quality on the 'crop-sensor' 7D-2 is far from rubbish but the FF bodies have an edge which trumps the extra reach (in my opinion). Now I have the 7D-2 and 1DX-2 I unexpectedly hardly ever use my 7D-2 and plan to sell it to help reduce the cost of a EOS R body with EF Adapter as my second body.

I'm likely to buy a 5DIV and trade up if a new release is available next year sometime. OTOH, if everyone goes mirrorless crazy then I might lose a fair bit more in future trading - in a 5D mkIV trade - in rather than an R and the latter might make more sense? Gosh. Photography is more complex than we could have known when we started out

....Firstly I don't think you should think in terms of 'how-much-money-might-I-lose-if' I buy one rather than the other. Like buying cars, you will always lose some money (unless an internationally auctionable supercar or vintage classic!) but isn't it more important to enjoy and realise more of your photographic potential? < Once you have spent the money, forget it and move onwards and upwards. Life isn't a rehearsal.

Regarding this first released version of the EOS R body, 3 fps is the very worst case and is only when tracking. I say "only" but high fps rates are much more desirable when tracking! Otherwise you can shoot in 5 fps or 8 fps < See Reply #1607.

I plan to buy an EOS R but I already have the 1DX-2 as my primary camera and it will also replace my 'too-small-to-enjoy' mirrorless EOS M5. I can always part-ex for a later R body version but no-one really knows when any will be released and I'm not getting any younger.

There is no such thing as a perfect camera, each have their pros and cons and the bottom line is that it is a personal Horses-for-Courses choice.

 

[wooster]

Thanks for the comments, folks. I don't own either of the options at the moment but I will probably own one in the next few months.

At the moment the 5DIV suits my needs better and giving further clarity to my thoughts, my reservations are around

1. The re-sale of each option I'm considering as I'm betting I will change in the next 18 months once a better R comes out. however as has been said, it is just as likely a better R will hit the current offering just as hard as the DSLR. Also I could sit for months second-guessing the future market so the sensible course as far as this is concerned is the 5DmkIV

2. The lenses. I only have two FF lenses at the moment so if I buy the 5DmkIV and I'm adding to these it will be EF mount rather than RF which seems slightly backward at the moment. I'm wondering if some really juicy new R lenses will come out and leave me frustrated. In this case the R would be best as any new lenses I buy will be compatible with future purchases.

I guess I'm feeling like the 5dmkIV is buying into a dead-end whereas the R is more future-proof. I might be completely mistaken of course but its a perception I'm finding hard to shake.

It's a system purchase which makes it a more complex decision than just a camera body upgrade.

 

[wooster]

.
...Firstly I don't think you should think in terms of 'how-much-money-might-I-lose-if' I buy one rather than the other. Like buying cars, you will always lose some money (unless an internationally auctionable supercar or vintage classic!) but isn't it more important to enjoy and realise more of your photographic potential? < Once you have spent the money, forget it and move onwards and upwards. Life isn't a rehearsal......

I plan to buy an EOS R but I already have the 1DX-2 as my primary camera and it will also replace my 'too-small-to-enjoy' mirrorless EOS M5. I can always part-ex for a later R body version but no-one really knows when any will be released and I'm not getting any younger.

.

Very true, Robin and wise words. I feel most of my anxiety is that I am due to retire in a couple of years and my pension is non -existant so I'm agonising over making the right choices to ensure I can enjoy as good gear as I can and for as long as I can in future years. I know it's pointless, there's a very good reasons why I shouldn't do this and should just enjoy what I have and maybe I will settle down to that in due course but pre-retirement anxiety is upon me at the moment.

 

[Phil V]

3 fps lol. Let me guess, Canon gave it 3 fps as they know the market better than me!

Yeah, they could easily do better but chose to ignore your great advice...

Or it’s the best they can do reliably with the speed of processor available at this price point?

Let’s see, what makes sense?

Of course in your ego-centric world it’s all about you vs Canon (pretty much like a 5 yr old). For the rest of us, logic dictates.

 

[RedRobin]

AF wise you get more AF coverage with R, but I haven't seen any tests with any big lenses, and especially AF tracking with the R.

....Canon say (Rudy Winston IIRC) and also other reports say that all AF processes and actions on the R are improved regardless of which EF or RF lenses are mounted. Certainly, that would be the case when any Canon lens is mounted - Third-party lens performance is unknown at this early stage.

The 5DIV AF is a known quality option.

....Very definitely. But.... There really isn't any right or wrong choice < It depends what you shoot and how a body fits in with your existing gear.

Personally, if I hadn't already got my 1DX-2 [did I mention before that I have one!? < Yeah! only several times!] I would probably (maybe, definitely, I think) be waiting to see what the next R body has to offer.

 

[redhed17]

2. The lenses. I only have two FF lenses at the moment so if I buy the 5DmkIV and I'm adding to these it will be EF mount rather than RF which seems slightly backward at the moment. I'm wondering if some really juicy new R lenses will come out and leave me frustrated. In this case the R would be best as any new lenses I buy will be compatible with future purchases.

I guess I'm feeling like the 5dmkIV is buying into a dead-end whereas the R is more future-proof. I might be completely mistaken of course but its a perception I'm finding hard to shake.

It's a system purchase which makes it a more complex decision than just a camera body upgrade.

Have the EF lenses suddenly become rubbish! Up until the announcement of the R and the RF lenses, high quality Canon EF lenses were the aim of users. RF lenses may be technically better, but from what they have released so far, they will also be (very) big, (very) heavy and (very) expensive.

Will they also release the lenses you want that are missing in the RF mount in a short period of time, if not you will be using the (rubbish ) EF lenses on the R using the adapter. There may be smaller, lighter, cheaper quality options down the line, but with no lens roadmap released can that option be expected!

If you want an R, then buy it, but in the short term you may have to live with a lot of compromises you would not have to with a DSLR.

The DSLR may be a technological dead-end, but not for a decade or more imho.

 

[Riz_Guru]

Yeah, they could easily do better but chose to ignore your great advice...

Or it’s the best they can do reliably with the speed of processor available at this price point?

Let’s see, what makes sense?

Of course in your ego-centric world it’s all about you vs Canon (pretty much like a 5 yr old). For the rest of us, logic dictates.

I knew you would respond to my post, so very predictable and it just re-enforces my opinion of you. However I have posted nothing but a reply to a factual specification (3 fps), nothing about me giving or not giving great advice to Canon as you elegantly put it.

3 fps is still 3 fps no matter which way you cut it and you can again defend Canon as you have been doing previously, nothing wrong with that.

 

[Phil V]

Ooh! I’m so predictable...

Let’s see...

However I have posted nothing but a reply to a factual specification (3 fps), nothing about me giving or not giving great advice to Canon as you elegantly put it.

Not about you at all

Canon gave it 3 fps as they know the market better than me!

You don’t even understand your own posts, what chance do you have with other people’s?

 

[RedRobin]

Buying into a camera system has many advantages and I think that Canon are very wisely, from many points of view, offering Canon users a very smooth and gradual transition from D-SLR into the mirrorless* world. We have many choices and all of them, bodies and lenses, can enable each of us to realise our fullest potential and, very importantly, enjoy doing so. There is no obligation to go mirrorless just as there is no obligation to go pantiless and not wear underpants (unless you are a traditional kilt wearing Scot).

* I'm thinking of Billy Connolly's 'Wildebeest' sketch in which his final line is "....For there are no mirrors in the Serengeti Plain"? - It's hilarious (unless you dislike him).

 

[Riz_Guru]

Ooh! I’m so predictable...

Let’s see...

Not about you at all


You don’t even understand your own posts, what chance do you have with other people’s?

Lol carry on..... it’s not only myself who’s experienced these kind of responses from you.

 

[redhed17]

....Canon say (Rudy Winston IIRC) and also other reports say that all AF processes and actions on the R are improved regardless of which EF or RF lenses are mounted. Certainly, that would be the case when any Canon lens is mounted - Third-party lens performance is unknown at this early stage.

Mmm, I think I would wait for a few unbiased reports on the AF than from a Technical Advisor at Canon USA. Do company men (not just Canon) ever say their latest product is not the best!

Odds are, because they have had an all electronic mount that things should work as good via the adapter, and hopefully better, but I'd wait for a few real world reports. Long lenses and the subjects they normally shoot, push the AF, face detection is one thing, but tracking a fast moving object is something else. Long lenses also need to be powered, (I know all AF lenses do but big lenses are moving big pieces of glass) which mirrorless cameras are already having to work without having a lot of. Will that affect the AF, and will the big lens adversely affect the battery life! Again, so many combinations and variables that I doubt they have all been tested by Canon.

Of course to some Canon are infallible, I mean they are market leaders.

 

[Phil V]

Lol carry on..... it’s not only myself who’s experienced these kind of responses from you.

So you deny writing something you only just wrote, and when I quote it back to you it’s all my fault.

Bless.

 

[Riz_Guru]

So you deny writing something you only just wrote, and when I quote it back to you it’s all my fault. [emoji38]

Bless.

Lol you never give up.
Did I not say Canon know the market better than me!
And who said anything about fault.

 

[Phil V]

Wow...

Lol you never give up.
Did I not say Canon know the market better than me!

You when you added the wink emoticon... I don’t know why you think you can rewrite your own posting history just for the sake of an argument.

And who said anything about fault.

You did...

it’s not only myself who’s experienced these kind of responses from you

unless you have a completely different understanding of how blame works...

I do have a reputation for being tenacious to the point of belligerent (you might need an adult to explain that to you). So far your reputation is centred round egocentric and illiterate.

 

[RedRobin]

Mmm, I think I would wait for a few unbiased reports on the AF than from a Technical Advisor at Canon USA. Do company men (not just Canon) ever say their latest product is not the best!

Odds are, because they have had an all electronic mount that things should work as good via the adapter, and hopefully better, but I'd wait for a few real world reports. Long lenses and the subjects they normally shoot, push the AF, face detection is one thing, but tracking a fast moving object is something else. Long lenses also need to be powered, (I know all AF lenses do but big lenses are moving big pieces of glass) which mirrorless cameras are already having to work without having a lot of. Will that affect the AF, and will the big lens adversely affect the battery life! Again, so many combinations and variables that I doubt they have all been tested by Canon.

Of course to some Canon are infallible, I mean they are market leaders.

....Sure, I hear what you are saying but Rudi Winston isn't saying that Canon is the best (better than anyone else) but rather he is explaining what Canon's latest developments are, how they work, and why they believe they will help photographers.

I feel confident that the R body will have been very thoroughly tested on lenses like the EF 500mm and 600mm L primes and also the 200-400mm L zoom. I don't think that Canon are so stupid as not to have done so. And it's not as if I am not already very familiar with Canon's existing AF and tracking performance from the mirrorless little M5 to the big bad boy flagship 1DX-2 and with a variety of focal length lenses from 8mm to 500mm. I'm not expecting any drop in performance and it'll be returned if I'm not satisfied and Canon will be very interested to know too.

I bought the 70D as soon as it was released, also the 7D-2 on pre-order. I bought the 5D-4 and then 1DX-2 without trying them first. The only Canon product I have tried before buying is a 500mm F/4L II which I hired from LensesForHire. Besides, if I'm not happy I can return it as long as it's within 30 days - That should be plenty long enough for me to pop the R onto my 500mm both with and without 1.4x and 2x Extenders and see how it performs in the field. I'm a confident optimist. I'll mostly be using the R on my Canon EF 100mm IS Macro and occasionally EF 100-400mm L II or RF 24-105mm or EF 8-15mm. The fisheye (in rectangular not round image format) will probably get used more often with a body with articulated screen.

The R body, assuming I go ahead, will be replacing my mirrorless EOS M5 and it's certainly going to suit me better than that little M body for so many reasons. I'm selling my 7D-2 because I don't use it enough now and I don't like to keep things I don't use.

Personally, I have never ever checked who is a market leader - It's just statistics and I really don't care. Ferrari aren't market leaders as far as I know but they make some damned fine cars and some far from perfect! You should try the door handles on a F40. Who happen to be market leaders don't influence my purchases but brands I can trust do influence me.

 

[RedRobin]

I do have a reputation for being tenacious to the point of belligerent (you might need an adult to explain that to you).

....Indeed you do . But I have grown to accept and respect what you have to say even though I have been showered in your vitriol in the past.

So far your reputation is centred round egocentric and illiterate.

....I must admit that I enjoy good sarcastic use of the English language, especially when it's not directed at me. A touch of Basil Fawlty addressing Manuel? Certainly a touch of John Cleese.

 

[Phil V]

A touch of Basil Fawlty? Certainly a touch of John Cleese.

I’d like to think more a Dave Gorman, using a mix of facts technology and humour to shine a light on the ridiculous or find the humour in the mundane

One of my colleagues recently commented I’m not safe to leave around sensitive people especially if they’re stupid.

 

[RedRobin]

I’d like to think more a Dave Gorman, using a mix of facts technology and humour to shine a light on the ridiculous or find the humour in the mundane

One of my colleagues recently commented I’m not safe to leave around sensitive people especially if they’re stupid.

....I hadn't heard of Dave Gorman so Google'd and have just watched a clip from his stand-up called 'Maths" < Brilliant!

 

[Phil V]

....I hadn't heard of Dave Gorman so Google'd and have just watched a clip from his stand-up called 'Maths" < Brilliant!

He’s great, started with a project called ‘I’m Dave Gorman’ the book is a cracking read and the tv show was worth watching.

Then ‘googlewhack’ he has a series on Dave that’s available on their replay service if you’ve got a smart tv.

 

[RedRobin]

Then ‘googlewhack’ he has a series on Dave that’s available on their replay service if you’ve got a smart tv.

....Cheers but I don't have a smart TV as there isn't enough money left after buying all this camera gear which Canon fanboys here persuade me to buy

 

[Riz_Guru]

Wow...

You when you added the wink emoticon... I don’t know why you think you can rewrite your own posting history just for the sake of an argument.


You did...

unless you have a completely different understanding of how blame works...

I do have a reputation for being tenacious to the point of belligerent (you might need an adult to explain that to you). So far your reputation is centred round egocentric and illiterate.

Carry on chap.

 

[SsSsSsSsSnake]

Wow...

You when you added the wink emoticon... I don’t know why you think you can rewrite your own posting history just for the sake of an argument.


You did...

unless you have a completely different understanding of how blame works...

I do have a reputation for being tenacious to the point of belligerent (you might need an adult to explain that to you). So far your reputation is centred round egocentric and illiterate.

Wouldn’t expect anything else from a Donny lad

 

[RedRobin]

Wouldn’t expect anything else from a Donny lad

...."Donny" as in Doncaster, South Yorkshire home of the world famous 'Flying Scotsman' steam locomotive and also the elegant speedster 'Mallard'?

I was built in Yorkshire too.

 

[Phil V]

...."Donny" as in Doncaster, South Yorkshire home of the world famous 'Flying Scotsman' steam locomotive and also the elegant speedster 'Mallard'?

I was built in Yorkshire too.

And home if the last flying Vulcan.


To make matters worse I hail from South Wales mining stock (there was never any hope).